203 réponses à ce sujet

[Bionuts]

The Dalatrass shouldn't have been reduced to some crazy idiot.

She should've had a good, long, conversation with Shepard. That really would've been enough. They give you options to talk about the cure with Wrex, Eve, Padok, Mordin.

[DuskWanderer]

I agree with this: Linron being a racist with barely sense in her arguments was a part of this. It did feel like curing the genophage was the "morally correct" choice, particularly with Wrex in charge. But more than the moral parts of it, the way the krogan were handled was awful. Tribal societies and strong rivalries do not immediate fall in line behind one leader, no questions asked.


I do love Eve, though. She provided the moral greyness I wanted. Shame we spent more of that time having to agree to everything Wrex did.

[KaiserShep]

Unless you killed him on Virmire

[eyezonlyii]

I wish eve could have been a party member. my knickers quivered when she pulled out that shotgun

[DeinonSlayer]

Bionuts wrote...

The Dalatrass shouldn't have been reduced to some crazy idiot.

She should've had a good, long, conversation with Shepard. That really would've been enough. They give you options to talk about the cure with Wrex, Eve, Padok, Mordin.

They should have done the same with Gerrel, too, taking place after the Dreadnought mission, and only if you didn't punch him. Pull him up on the comm and get his perspective so you can weigh it against everything else. Challenge him on whether they really had to go to war in the first place, what their alternatives were. That kind of thing. I knew the direction they were going to take that arc the moment Xen threw out those softball arguments for the invasion. Same thing went for the dalatrass.

Modifié par DeinonSlayer, 05 octobre 2013 - 04:39 .

[Seboist]

The whole genophage cure bit is completely black and white anyhow if you play full Paragon or Renegade. If you play full paragon you have no reason not to cure the Krogans and likewise if you play full Renegade you have no reason not to sabotage it.

[Reorte]

Seboist wrote...

The whole genophage cure bit is completely black and white anyhow if you play full Paragon or Renegade. If you play full paragon you have no reason not to cure the Krogans and likewise if you play full Renegade you have no reason not to sabotage it.

Sure you do - we need krogan support now, and faking a cure and hoping that they don't see through it is a risk. It isn't necessarily a Paragon or Renegade thing. A fully Paragon Shepard would probably only cure but a Renegade could go either way (assuming it's the "don't stop at anything to do the mission" type of Renegade and not the "be a dick to everyone for the hell of it" sort).

[DuskWanderer]

KaiserShep wrote...

Unless you killed him on Virmire

I normally do, I'm just talking about when he's around, you barely get the chance to call out any of his bad decisions (worse, you're forced to accept them) 

At least with Wreav, you can be antagonistic.

[nos_astra]

Reorte wrote...
Sure you do - we need krogan support now...

Do we? More bodies to throw at the Reapers?
And either we cure it now or the krogan will commit suicide and take everyone else with them?

<_<

[Seboist]

Reorte wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The whole genophage cure bit is completely black and white anyhow if you play full Paragon or Renegade. If you play full paragon you have no reason not to cure the Krogans and likewise if you play full Renegade you have no reason not to sabotage it.

Sure you do - we need krogan support now, and faking a cure and hoping that they don't see through it is a risk. It isn't necessarily a Paragon or Renegade thing. A fully Paragon Shepard would probably only cure but a Renegade could go either way (assuming it's the "don't stop at anything to do the mission" type of Renegade and not the "be a dick to everyone for the hell of it" sort).

Pray tell why a Renegade who killed Wrex and destroyed the genophage data would want to cure the 'phage with Wreav in power? Much like with a pure paragon playthrough there's zero consequence or incentive to not go down the road they were already going.

Besides, the whole premise of the cure and needing Krogan troops this late in the conflict against space mecha cthulhu is hokey to begin with when there's fast breeding Vorcha to fulfill the same (dumb) role already.

[Reorte]

Seboist wrote...

Sure you do - we need krogan support now, and faking a cure and hoping that they don't see through it is a risk. It isn't necessarily a Paragon or Renegade thing. A fully Paragon Shepard would probably only cure but a Renegade could go either way (assuming it's the "don't stop at anything to do the mission" type of Renegade and not the "be a dick to everyone for the hell of it" sort).

Pray tell why a Renegade who killed Wrex and destroyed the genophage data would want to cure the 'phage with Wreav in power? Much like with a pure paragon playthrough there's zero consequence or incentive to not go down the road they were already going.

Besides, the whole premise of the cure and needing Krogan troops this late in the conflict against space mecha cthulhu is hokey to begin with when there's fast breeding Vorcha to fulfill the same (dumb) role already.

That's considering it from a metagaming perspective.

I think that krogan are rather more useful than vorcha; at least they won't wander off in the wrong direction or forget who they're supposed to be shooting in the middle of a battle. Whilst I agree that having just about any forces other than big spaceships mattering much is somewhat dumb that's the way the game works.

Modifié par Reorte, 06 octobre 2013 - 10:52 .

[Hazegurl]

I have never gotten how the Krogan are so valuable to the point of claiming a high number of assets if you cure the genophage. The Salarians are far more valuable as we need them on the crucible and their tactical minds on the ground. I agree that the Vorcha can fill the Krogan role as reaper meat grinder.

[David7204]

First of all, I would think it would be utterly obvious that the reproduce rate of the vorcha is of zero consequence, since the bulk of the war will almost certainly be over by the time even a single generation of offspring matures to fighting ability.

Secondly, the krogan are far better ground troops than the vorcha. The series goes out of it's way to established heir numerous advantages.

Thirdly, given the nature of absence of vorcha society and government in general, recruiting the vorcha isn't something that could be practically enforced in the first place.

So no. They couldn't fulfill the role.

Modifié par David7204, 06 octobre 2013 - 11:36 .

[KaiserShep]

No way are the vorcha as formidable as the krogan as ground troops. The krogan are basically tanks in themselves by comparison, and are generally smarter.

[KaiserShep]

The salarians are like the asari in that they're more about infiltration and sabotage than straight up fighting themselves. They'd be crap support on Palaven.

[Hazegurl]

knucks360 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I have never gotten how the Krogan are so valuable to the point of claiming a high number of assets if you cure the genophage. The Salarians are far more valuable as we need them on the crucible and their tactical minds on the ground. I agree that the Vorcha can fill the Krogan role as reaper meat grinder.

I don't recall Victus being desperate for Salarian support on Palaven.

I'm talking about Earth and the Crucible Project. The two things that actually matter. You still get Krogan support for Victus by sabotaging the Genophage.

The Salarians are far more valuable near the end when things get really bad, so yeah I think their asset rating should be higher than the Krogan who are nothing more than meat for the reaper ground forces to grind through. I just think the devs wanted to punish renegades for siding with the Dalatrass even when siding with her is the smarter decision to make.  

[Wulfram]

KaiserShep wrote...

The salarians are like the asari in that they're more about infiltration and sabotage than straight up fighting themselves. They'd be crap support on Palaven.

Yet the "Miracle of Palaven" was mostly achieved by infiltration and sabotage.   Which makes sense.  You're not going to achieve much with conventional ground forces when you can be blown to bits from space, and you're not going to win a space battle against a major reaper force.

The Salarian military shouldn't be overly caricatured, anyway.  Their actual military isn't much different from the Alliance, except bigger, they've just got very good intelligence to go with that.

Modifié par Wulfram, 07 octobre 2013 - 12:57 .

[Hazegurl]

knucks360 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

knucks360 wrote...

Hazegurl wrote...

I have never gotten how the Krogan are so valuable to the point of claiming a high number of assets if you cure the genophage. The Salarians are far more valuable as we need them on the crucible and their tactical minds on the ground. I agree that the Vorcha can fill the Krogan role as reaper meat grinder.

I don't recall Victus being desperate for Salarian support on Palaven.

I'm talking about Earth and the Crucible Project. The two things that actually matter. You still get Krogan support for Victus by sabotaging the Genophage.

The Salarians are far more valuable near the end when things get really bad, so yeah I think their asset rating should be higher than the Krogan who are nothing more than meat for the reaper ground forces to grind through. I just think the devs wanted to punish renegades for siding with the Dalatrass even when siding with her is the smarter decision to make.  

The Crucible has enough support as it is(if you get all the assets). I brought up Palaven because it's clear that the Krogan are much better fighters than Salarians on the ground. The Salarians are primarily a intelligence based military,so I wouldn't want them covering me on Earth fighting Reapers,rather than Krogan who have sheer force and who are born to fight,plus you still get Salarian support after the Coup on the Citadel.

From a role play standpoint and without metagaming future Salarian support. The Dalatrass offering Salarian support for the Crucible Project is enough to side with her over the Krogan, period. You can't have enough great minds on that project considering the fact that it is the only way to stop them.  Just look at the Protheans, they were attacked for years and was only working on the Crucible at the last moments, then thought it was a bright idea to freeze a fighter over a scientist working on the project. It's no wonder they got wiped out. I still like Javik though.

As for ground forces, yeah the Salarians can't beat the brute force Krogan could contribute. But it's better to fight smarter than harder at the end of the day. I would put more faith in intelligent military strategy than a bunch of knuckle heads knocking themselves against the reaper forces until they're wiped out and reaperized.

PS, I think that giving the player Salarian support anyway on top of full Krogan support is just another way the game mindlessly rewards Paragons. Let Wrex live=Paragon. Keep the research=Paragon.  Turn down the evil Dalatrass =Paragon. Reward. Full Krogan support and Salarian support anyway.  It makes playing the renegade so freaking dumb and pointless.

[Wulfram]

You don't get as much Salarian support by allowing the cure as sabotaging it. IIRC it's only by sabotaging the cure that they'll send you their dreadnoughts, going by the war assets.

The optimal war asset outcome is to sabotage the cure with Wreav in charge. Though it's only the equivalent of a couple of planet scans in the end.

[shodiswe]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It didn't matter anyway. What mattered was that number called WAR ASSETS. Which way got you the most. Who cares if the Krogan go on a rampage after the war? They're not talking sequel anyway.

It's like the Dark Energy ending with the Starbrat. Do you sacrifice Humanity or do you destroy the reapers and take your chances? It's the last game. Who cares? Destroy the bastards!

That's the problem with stories like this.

se·quel (skwl)

1. Something that follows; a continuation.
2. A literary, dramatic, or cinematic work whose narrative continues that of a preexisting work.
3. A result or consequence.

Even if the next game is set in the future of ME3, lets say 2 or 5 or 10 years, it wont be a sequel since Shepard wont be in the story, neither will the Reapers be a prominent part of the narrative.
The story of shepard and the Reapers is over, therefor it wont be a a Sequel even if it's set in the immediate future. It wont feature our squad and most likely none of our closest "friends".
Therefor it isnt' a continuation of ME3's narrative.

spin·off or spin-off (spnôf, -f)
n.
1.
a. A divestiture by a corporation of a division or subsidiary by issuing to stockholders shares in a new company set up to continue the operations of the division or subsidiary.
b. The new company formed by such a divestiture.
2. Something, such as a product, that is derived from something larger and more or less unrelated; a byproduct.
3. Something derived from an earlier work, such as a television show starring a character who had a popular minor role in another show.

Think Star Trek DS9, it had minor characters like LT Worf, chief Miles O'brien pressent in the show.

So when Bioware told us it wouldn't be a Sequel it made perfect sense if you look at the meaning of the word.
Shepard Dead, Reaper story narative concuded, Cerberus storyline concluded, Several crewmembers likely dead one way or another depending on your ending after the Trilogy.

Bioware hasn't indicated that the next game won't be set post Reaper-war. Only that it wont continue Shepards story, because Shepards story is over and we will have a new Protagonist, the Reapers are gone. The whole narative is gone unless you insist the endings never happend and insist that IT is the only possible future.

The IT is dead. there for no Sequel. Spinoffs or new stories set after the Reaper war hasn't been denied, only the notion that Shepards story and that of the Reapers story would continue. Bioware said "NO" to this assumption or question however you prefer to put it.

Personaly, I wish Bioware would explain their stance better. They never said no, to a game set in the immediate future followign ME3, they merely told us that it wont be a Sequel seeing as Shepard won't be the star of the story and it won't be about the Reapers which means that whole Narrative is out the window.

Summary:
Not a Sequel means that it won't be a sequel because it won't star Shepard as the protagonist and it won't be about the Reapers.(the story is over, they are done with the old narrative) It's merely the Bioware people correcting people's choice of words. Which doesn't mean it has to be a prequel or alternate universes even if they "could" do that if they wanted.

On the topic of the Krogans however, I would expect that the next story wouldn't be dependant on the genophage cure if they want to keep peopels choices relevant.
It would likely be sometihng more like the "Evil" proteans cloning themselves into a massive army and swarming out from their hiding places. Or the Leviathans atempting to enslave the whole galaxy and it turns out the are billions of Leviathans around the galaxy with ships, slaves and resources that they have been hoarding for the past billion years.

All they need is to have the council there and they might throw in Liara since she is the "Celebrity" alien of Mass Effect.

Modifié par shodiswe, 07 octobre 2013 - 12:51 .