234 réponses à ce sujet

[Sebby]

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

[Iakus]

Reorte wrote...
Why did it need a pointless arbitrary kick-you-in-the-guts one? You've lost, probably dead, or worse, or you're alive and won (with some losses) are the only two really plausible endings and the first of those is just outright depressing. Anyway, as has been said often enough before it's not exactly rocket science to cover a bit of a spectrum, which has to include the most likely outcomes (putting aside for a second anything other than outright Reaper victory is unlikely).

"Less kick-you-in-the-guts" is a good way of putting the kind of ending the game is missing

[BeastSaver]

RustyLH wrote...

Oh, and keep this in mind. Lazarus is not dead as a project. Miranda, if alive knows exactly what would be needed, and keep in mind, it would cost much much less, since they now know how to do it. Realistically, the majority of the cost in the project would have been that they were using guinea pig corpses to test out the new technology and this research would be expensive.

Also, Liara is now the Shadow Broker and there is no data that the Shadow Broker can't get. Any number of scenarios could have been used for this. For instance, Liara pays to have a merc team go to the station that Lazarus was performed on. Remember, they never tell what happened to the station. I took it that it was simply abandoned and is now simply filled with hostile mechs, but it is still intact. So Liara sends a Merc team to grab all of the research notes and everything else they can find of use, including key equipment used in the process.

So Lazarus could still be used to bring him back, but the real question is, would that be good for the story? I would rather see this...use the end where he is still alive though badly beat up. He is in a coma for awhile, and the doctors who have him don't even know who he is. He's just another soldier found on the battlefield, and in need of medical care. This could take some time...but then, he is finally healed and aware, and can leave so he does, and he surprises his love interest by tracking her down, showing up, and finding her with a 2 year old child that is walking and just able to talk.

In the mission report screen it is stated that the station was destroyed by TIM.

[Mr.House]

BeastSaver wrote...

RustyLH wrote...

Oh, and keep this in mind. Lazarus is not dead as a project. Miranda, if alive knows exactly what would be needed, and keep in mind, it would cost much much less, since they now know how to do it. Realistically, the majority of the cost in the project would have been that they were using guinea pig corpses to test out the new technology and this research would be expensive.

Also, Liara is now the Shadow Broker and there is no data that the Shadow Broker can't get. Any number of scenarios could have been used for this. For instance, Liara pays to have a merc team go to the station that Lazarus was performed on. Remember, they never tell what happened to the station. I took it that it was simply abandoned and is now simply filled with hostile mechs, but it is still intact. So Liara sends a Merc team to grab all of the research notes and everything else they can find of use, including key equipment used in the process.

So Lazarus could still be used to bring him back, but the real question is, would that be good for the story? I would rather see this...use the end where he is still alive though badly beat up. He is in a coma for awhile, and the doctors who have him don't even know who he is. He's just another soldier found on the battlefield, and in need of medical care. This could take some time...but then, he is finally healed and aware, and can leave so he does, and he surprises his love interest by tracking her down, showing up, and finding her with a 2 year old child that is walking and just able to talk.

In the mission report screen it is stated that the station was destroyed by TIM.

This is contradicted by a email about one of the weapons in ME2.

[RustyLH]

iakus wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

RustyLH wrote...

I have seen videos of the ending and some people have a shot of a body in N7 armor and it suddenly starts breathing again. The implication is that it is Shepard and he is alive. What ending option is that one from? I never saw it, but I really like it.

High EMS Destroy. 

Specifically, Destroy with an EMS score of at least 3100

That was not a problem for me.  I had all fleets, including the Omega Merc fleets, I had the Salarians, I had the Krogans, I had the best Quarian fleet possible, I had the Rachni, I had the Cerberus fighters, the Geth, and all other war assets available, plus i went online and bumped my readiness ratig up to 100% right before playing.


I think I must have not done this ending, but it really seems to me that I did.  I must have been interrupted by the phone or something.  Don't remember since I played so many endings and it was a while ago.

[Iakus]

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

[Mr.House]

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

Modifié par Mr.House, 04 octobre 2013 - 11:42 .

[RustyLH]

Mr.House wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...

RustyLH wrote...

Oh, and keep this in mind. Lazarus is not dead as a project. Miranda, if alive knows exactly what would be needed, and keep in mind, it would cost much much less, since they now know how to do it. Realistically, the majority of the cost in the project would have been that they were using guinea pig corpses to test out the new technology and this research would be expensive.

Also, Liara is now the Shadow Broker and there is no data that the Shadow Broker can't get. Any number of scenarios could have been used for this. For instance, Liara pays to have a merc team go to the station that Lazarus was performed on. Remember, they never tell what happened to the station. I took it that it was simply abandoned and is now simply filled with hostile mechs, but it is still intact. So Liara sends a Merc team to grab all of the research notes and everything else they can find of use, including key equipment used in the process.

So Lazarus could still be used to bring him back, but the real question is, would that be good for the story? I would rather see this...use the end where he is still alive though badly beat up. He is in a coma for awhile, and the doctors who have him don't even know who he is. He's just another soldier found on the battlefield, and in need of medical care. This could take some time...but then, he is finally healed and aware, and can leave so he does, and he surprises his love interest by tracking her down, showing up, and finding her with a 2 year old child that is walking and just able to talk.

In the mission report screen it is stated that the station was destroyed by TIM.

This is contradicted by a email about one of the weapons in ME2.

Either way, is that a scenario killer?  The Shadow Broker could have still gone in there and gotten the info.  In fact, think about this...Wilson was very upset about his pay.  OK, so before he sets this stuff in motion, he sends the info to the Shadow Broker...right?  That would work.

[Reorte]

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

I'm seeing a disturbing concensus of opinion building here, what's happened to BSN?

[Mr.House]

Reorte wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

I'm seeing a disturbing concensus of opinion building here, what's happened to BSN?

If you think everyone on the bsn worships ME2 then you're in for a rude awakening.

[Reorte]

Mr.House wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

I'm seeing a disturbing concensus of opinion building here, what's happened to BSN?

If you think everyone on the bsn worships ME2 then you're in for a rude awakening.

I've been here long enough to know that isn't the case, it's just that there seemed to be hints of people with different views of the ending actually agreeing on something. For the record I love ME2 but its flaws are fairly obvious.

[Sebby]

Reorte wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Reorte wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

I'm seeing a disturbing concensus of opinion building here, what's happened to BSN?

If you think everyone on the bsn worships ME2 then you're in for a rude awakening.

I've been here long enough to know that isn't the case, it's just that there seemed to be hints of people with different views of the ending actually agreeing on something. For the record I love ME2 but its flaws are fairly obvious.

I'm personally an "apathy-ender". I have no reason to care for the endings one way or another since the trilogy amounted to little more than a linear Gears clone with spellcasting and a dialogue wheel and inconsistent mess of a story.

Being upset over 3's ending makes about as much sense as being upset of the ending of your average Ed Wood flick to me.

[jamesthessj4]

I am going to stand by my opinion which is that the problem with Mass Effect 3 and its ending is the Star Child.

[Mr.House]

jamesthessj4 wrote...

I am going to stand by my opinion which is that the problem with Mass Effect 3 and its ending is the Star Child.

Star brat is a problem, but there are far more issues then him.

[Iakus]

Mr.House wrote...

jamesthessj4 wrote...

I am going to stand by my opinion which is that the problem with Mass Effect 3 and its ending is the Star Child.

Star brat is a problem, but there are far more issues then him.

True. And ME2 really didn't help.  Though ME3 still could have been a good game on its own merits.

But the Catalyst and the endings are such a huge problem they tend to eclipse everything else.

[RustyLH]

Mr.House wrote...

iakus wrote...

Seboist wrote...

The only ending that would have suited ME3 is a Reaper victory within an hour of pressing 'start" due to the colossal waste of time that was ME2.

That might be the ending we deserve, but not the one we need

True, what we needed was a total reboot of ME2.

What was wrong with ME2?  I loved ME2.  It was the first one I bought, which then convinced em to download ME1, and then go buy the last Collector's Edition ME3 in all of Jacksonville, FL.

The one and only thing I did not like about ME2 was that i wnated an option to keep the Collector Base but turn it over to the Alliance for study.  I think it should have gone like this...Give the Collector base to Cerberusequals bad consequences in ME3...destroying it equals neither good nor bad consequences in ME3...but keeping it and giving it to the Alliance equals new technology that allows the "happy ending" because they get to rush new weapons/tech into the fleet that allows them to kill Reapers more directly.  Basically this could have been part of a series of things that they learned that allowed them to defeat Reaper shields.

• Some fragments of technology from Sovereign interacting with the Citadel which is recovered by scientists. (Reaper communications)
• Technology gained by studying the remains of Sovereign. (Thanix Cannons)
• Reaper shield technology gained from the derelict Reaper...only if you keep Legion and gain his loyalty.  he tells you that he found this while he interacted with the Reaper.
• Reaper battle plans collected from Collector base, only gained if you keep the base and give it to the Alliance.  Shepard would after all be able to determine who gets it since you need the Reaper IFF to get through the relay.  So whoever he gives that technology to is the one who gets the Collector Base.
• Etc...the idea being that these decisions will actually affect being able to defeat the Reapers outright in the end.

If you pay attention, the implication is that all choices are basically bad unless you keep the reapers alive and do not do the rejection ending.  Rejection ending, we all die and the cycle continues.  Destruction ending, the galaxy is sent back into the stone age because if you noticed, all technology/machines were destoryed.  The Allied fleet were destroyed right alongside the Reapers.  Not really what I wanted.

THe control one is good for the galaxy because Shepard uses the Reapers to repair the relays and help rebuild the Citadel Civilizations.

The Synthesis ending is good because everyone evolves, and nobody seems upset about it.  Would they be?  Not likely becuae they became suddenly aware of things they never knew.  It would be like taking an ape, putting him in a machine where he sudenly became human, with built in PhD intelligence, and then asking if he wanted to go back to being an ape.  I doubt he would.  He is now aware of so much more.

But I would have liked one where we destroy the Reapers but because of our contact with them, and eventual defeat of them, we gain tons of new knowledge and technology, and this would be enhanced by the now self aware Geth, and EDI.

[Iakus]

The problem with ME2 is a paper-thin plot where Shepard spends more time shooting mercs than investigating the Reapers or the Collectors.

Not to mention Shep is assembling a team for a completely unknown mission. If you look at most caper stories like The Dirty Dozen or Ocean's 11, you see that they first identify the target, then determine what skills are needed, then do the necessary recruiting. ME2 did that all in reverse and made no sense beyond "Here's someone who might or might not come in handy"

Plus the seriously space-magicky Lazarus Project and the general disconnect between ME1 and ME2. But the connections between ME2 and ME3 were...tenuous...as well.

[jamesthessj4]

I think the war Assets are not really used the way that they could of been. They don't seem to have as much of an impact beyond how well your ending is. They are not even represented in the final battle as well as I would like. >> plus i hate the fact that the readiness rating goes down if you don't keep playing the multiplayer aspect. I would of liked to of been able to visit over cities and walked around. More variety in stores. More clothes for Shepard to wear. More items for his house. I would of liked to have more control over the army that you are amassing and perhaps even upgrading ships so that they can fight the reapers. When this game is about gathering and getting an army ready to fight the reapers all you do is gather up these war assets and that is as much as you get involved in the entire gathering an army process. I also would of liked to of gone to the crucible and seen it being built. Of course there are a lot of things that I would of wanted in Mass Effect 3.

[Deverz]

I hated the original ending. But I for one liked the Extended Cut. In conjunction with the Citadel DLC it does ease the heartbreak.

Even with the EC though, the conclusion of the story was rather disappointing. Namely introducing a totally new central conflict I had no interest in solving in just the last 10 minutes. The ending choices themselves feel contrived and out of the blue. And also, Ghost-boy adds nothing of value. All these sudden twists and turns managed to do was retroactively cheapen the story arc I experienced througout the three games.

Thankfully, the memorable and likeable cast of characters make up for the lackluster story. And it remains the only reason why I ever get emotional over the ending and the trilogy as a whole.

Modifié par Deverz, 05 octobre 2013 - 12:17 .

[RustyLH]

iakus wrote...

The problem with ME2 is a paper-thin plot where Shepard spends more time shooting mercs than investigating the Reapers or the Collectors.

Not to mention Shep is assembling a team for a completely unknown mission. If you look at most caper stories like The Dirty Dozen or Ocean's 11, you see that they first identify the target, then determine what skills are needed, then do the necessary recruiting. ME2 did that all in reverse and made no sense beyond "Here's someone who might or might not come in handy"

Plus the seriously space-magicky Lazarus Project and the general disconnect between ME1 and ME2. But the connections between ME2 and ME3 were...tenuous...as well.

I think I like ME2 more than you did.  I personally see no problem with the recruitment.  They are up against an unknown to an extent except that they do know they need more of an elite team to deal with it, and they also do know that they need certain things.  Mordin for instance.  They know they need him to help figure out a solution t the swarms.  Also, they know they need a smal but elite team, so along with the Illusive Man's help, they go after just that, an elite team.  They aren't looking for just a few good soldiers, they are looking for the best, and they do know why they need them.  Afterall, Shepard was killed by them once, and they take down whole colonies without firing a shot.

Could they have added a bit of detail as to what each member was expected to add?  Well, I for one think that most did.  Mordin for his scientific expertise, Jack and Samara for their incredible biotic abilities.  They weren't just biotoc, they were a cut above other biotics.  Zaeed because of his extensive small team combat knowledge, and he's convenient, the Illusive Man happened to get word he was there and could be bought for a price.  Thaene because he is simply the most efficient killer there is.  Grunt, because he adds brute force...of course, was he the real target?  Maybe he really was, maybe it was the Illusive Man's intention all along to get Grunt on the team.  Garrus was part of Shepard's old team and he said he wanted to find those people, so the Illusive Man helps him out but doesnt' tell Shepard that he knows it is Garrus.  Kasumi is the ultimate theif, so also the ultimate infiltrator.  Tali'Zorah is also a former crew member and figures into the story in an important way.   Joker is an obvious addition n the beginning.  The I Man wants to make sure he hooks Shepard in, but he also understands that joker was part of the success, and has prior experience with the Collectors. Legion is an accidental find, but a good one.  Miranda and Jacob are understandable crew members for very obvious reasons.

I think the fact that it is an unknown mission is not a deal breaker.  I mean seriously, they are trying to solve the mystery of the Collectors but to an extent, in the beginning they are on the Collector's clock.  They ahve to wait for the Collector's to make a move.  After all, who comes in contact with them and survives?  Veetor was the first to see them and live to tell about it.  Then they have the mission to Horizon thanks to the Illusive man getting some sort of heads up that something is going on.  Then he gets word of the Collector ship and send them to that.  What exactly are they supposed to investigate that they aren't already doing?  The Collector's are largely a mystery, and aren't accessible when they retreat behind the Omega 4 Relay.

The idea here is that they have nothing better to do than recruit the best while they also search for clues regarding the Collectors.  Keep in mind that they were actually doing that but other side quests were part of the story.  And they also had to rely on the I Man for info on the collectors.  Until they found the IFF there was nothing to do anyway.

I just don't see the probelms with the ME2 story that some do.  We'll just have to politely agree to disagree.  I loved ME2.  Paper thin?  Not for me, especially with all of the DLC I had.  I had it all from the get go.  The version I had already had all but two major DLC packs. 

[Iakus]

The only characters it made sense to recruit were

Mordin, for his scientific expertise in creating the anti-seeker countermeasures
Okeer: For his past dealings with the Collectors and perhaps knowledge of them
Tali: as a former member of Shepard's team

Garrus too, if they had known that he was Archangel. But they didn't

Everyone else was "random bad****" Good characters, sure,. But good characters given nothing to do outside their personal missions.

[AlanC9]

I'd add one of the biotics, unless Shepard is one.

[AlexMBrennan]

Tali: as a former member of Shepard's team

Why? She had a recording of Saren and is an expert on geth but neither is even remotely relevant to fighting Collectors.

I think I like ME2 more than you did. I personally see no problem with the recruitment. They are up against an unknown to an extent except that they do know they need more of an elite team to deal with it

If you know nothing, then you do not know that you need an elite commando team to beat them - remember that Shepard did not bring anything other than a dozen soldiers: No explosives, or heavy mechs, or an escort fleet, etc.

I think the fact that it is an unknown mission is not a deal breaker. I mean seriously, they are trying to solve the mystery of the Collectors but to an extent, in the beginning they are on the Collector's clock. They ahve to wait for the Collector's to make a move. After all, who comes in contact with them and survives

No one said it was easy, but blindly charging an unknown enemy is stupid.

In any case, what kind of argument is that? Bioware screwed up by creating an enemy that Shepard could not reasonably be expected to defeat (relying on coincides such as the squad Shepard assembled being exactly what's needed despite no one knowing anything about the Collectors' defences), therefore relying on coincidence to defeat the Collectors is not bad writing?

And they also had to rely on the I Man for info on the collectors

No, Shepard could just have called the Alliance or one of his old crew at any point rather than just taking space!Bin-Laden's word for them being unavailable. Seriously, they should have gone for the mind-control chip.

[RustyLH]

iakus wrote...


Everyone else was "random bad****" Good characters, sure,. But good characters given nothing to do outside their personal missions.

Not true.  Again, you have an enemy that you know little about.  To an extent you are playing a witing game for chances to learn something about them/defeat them.  meanwhile, you son't jus sit around jerkin your chicken.  You go out and recruit the ebst to help you.  Each elite warrior you bring to the team makes you stronger.  There is nothing wrong with this concept.  Now, f the Collectors simply had a homeworld in the Terminus System, that changes everything.  Then everything about the whole story changes.  But because they can retreat behind the O4 Relay, you are simly waiting for opportunities to have encounters with them.  I personally like the way it escalated.  First the colony where they are too late, but Veetor captures the whole thing on video, which gives them more than enough to go on at the moment.  They now know it is the Collectors doing the dirty deed.  But they know little about them.

Then comes Horizon where they are just in time to halt the process, but not save everybody.  This gives them a lot more to go on.  They now know it was the same ship that took the SR1 down.  They now know more about the Collectors.  Then comes a chance.  The collectors decide to lay a trap.  Let Shepard get abord their ship.  THe Illusive man goes along with it withotu telling Shepard it's a trap.  Perfect for the story.  He doesn't warn Shepard because he doesn't want him to do anything to tip off the COllectors that he knows, and maybe ruin the whole thing, and also fears Shepard might bypass it knowing it is a trap.

Then the Reaper IFF, and then going through the Omega 4 relay.  These side missions served a purpose also in that they kept you galaxy hopping before going through the O4 relay.  I did not ready anything so it was perfect for me.  I totally did not see it coming when the collector ship popped up out of nowhere.  I loved that part of the game, and the total uncertainty it created for me.

Perosonally, I loved the storyline of this game and really only have some things that are more tweaks that I would prefer.  The only thing I did not like was the ending with the Catalyst, but even that isn't enough to ruin it for me.