LeVar Burton (aka Geordi La Forge from Star Trek) had a quote recently that sums up my opinion for the end of the ME Trilogy: "I wish there were more hope in the science fiction voice."
I know the series had a dark undertone to it but after doing so much in the first two games and building this sense of hope, that 'we can beat the reapers' attitude, and having none of it pan out in the end just sucks. EC was just sour icing on a stale, moldy cake. If you managed to cure the genophage ending centuries of bitterness between the krogan and turians (and of course curing the krogan), stop the war between the geth and quarians, and get everyone working together for a worthy cause wouldn't you want to imagine that the future of the galaxy might be one filled with hope?
ME3 endings.
Débuté par
RustyLH
, oct. 04 2013 10:51
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#102
Guest_csm4267_*
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 08:10
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^ That just sounds like people wanted a happy ending. Where you destroy the Reapers without using an I-Win button and everything more or less goes back to normal. Did you guys forget this game was about choices and consequences right? The ending has choices and consequences. Not every single choice was to affect the ending, but it was more about the "mass effect" that each choice has. The galaxy is screwed this cycle, but would you prefer the Reapers just harvest everyone? Like you said, it's a very dark plot. Not like Star Wars or LOTR type movies in any way.
This game doesn't have the "yeah! Let's do that again feel of the first two games". Instead it's one of those visceral punch to the gut endings which makes you think long and hard about what the hell just happened. Which is what Bioware wanted from the start. An intentionally vague ending to get people talking. Where you can come up with your own interpretations on the ending and such. I like this, but most people around here hate it and just want instant answers from Bioware on what the ending actually was.
So conventional victory? Are you guys just wanting that because you want some kind of action movie? Please don't tell me you solely play this game for the action. The point of Mass Effect 3 is not an action pack movie. There's more to it than that. This game actually requires you to think and doesn't just spoon feed you empty action.
It's a bit different than the first or second game, but Bioware did kind of warn people the final minutes would make people mad, but they bought the game anyways. I mean, they did warn people. Gave them lots of notice.
This game doesn't have the "yeah! Let's do that again feel of the first two games". Instead it's one of those visceral punch to the gut endings which makes you think long and hard about what the hell just happened. Which is what Bioware wanted from the start. An intentionally vague ending to get people talking. Where you can come up with your own interpretations on the ending and such. I like this, but most people around here hate it and just want instant answers from Bioware on what the ending actually was.
I know the series had a dark undertone to it but after doing so much in the first two games and building this sense of hope, that 'we can beat the reapers' attitude, and having none of it pan out in the end just sucks
So conventional victory? Are you guys just wanting that because you want some kind of action movie? Please don't tell me you solely play this game for the action. The point of Mass Effect 3 is not an action pack movie. There's more to it than that. This game actually requires you to think and doesn't just spoon feed you empty action.
It's a bit different than the first or second game, but Bioware did kind of warn people the final minutes would make people mad, but they bought the game anyways. I mean, they did warn people. Gave them lots of notice.
Modifié par csm4267, 07 octobre 2013 - 08:18 .
#103
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 08:18
Mangalores
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Mdoggy1214 wrote...
...
I've said this before but Mass Effect 3 should've had 2 endings. Spend the game uniting the galaxy and collecting War Asstes. Depending on how much you have, either you successful manage to punch a hole through the Reaper defenses, load up the Crucible and destroy them all, or you fail and the Reapers wipe you all out. What follows after is a lengthy epilogue that greatly varies based on your choices. It's not just cutscenes and slides either. There's gameplay sections as well, similiar to the end of Dragon Age Origins where you can talk to party members and NPCs.
The inherent problem of a stat system determining the outcome of the story is that Mass Effect doesn't have the game mechanics to make that worthwhile because a player naturally wants to see all the content thus guaranteeing that given the current lack of meaningful choice they will have the necessary points.
You could do that in some timed strategy game or other open game system but not really in a tied down interactive story.
So just out of curiosity, those who still don't like the ending or are upset, are you still going to buy the next game? I just hope we don't have a repeat of this thing when the next game comes out. I would hope people would use their consumer rights and vote with their wallets for the next game (if still mad).
The issue is that as a creative product a new iteration of a game might actually be good since every game is essentially a standalone piece or work. One movie by Columbia pictures might suck, doesn't mean all of them do.
Personally I'm sad because I consider the Mass Effect franchise broken. Reading up on the books and comics, compared to ME1 it's all empty action fluff, with ME2 this seeped into the game, with ME3 it completely broke any resemblance of a thought through story.
I really loved the feel and ideas of ME1 and alot of the characters retain some interest but I couldn't tell you if I'd buy the next game. The current franchise is imho pretty dead and worn out, so I'm afraid the next game will be some kind of reboot which I don't have any interest in either.
The problem with the excercising consumer rights is that at this stage none knows what they miss out on. The thing about ME3 was that it was the end of a series so you had clear expectations. I bought the game half a year after its launch knowing it'd suck because I wanted the ME story to end. An untied new game doesn't necessarily have that and either works stand alone or doesn't but shouldn't be punished because of an entirely different game.
That said I'm far less interested in another story in the ME universe and overall also think that currently Bioware churns out the same story in all their games and have lost much of their edge to other storydriven games. E.g. the guys of CD project with the Witcher series and their Cyberpunk project currently appear more imaginative in their worldbuilding, let's see about Witcher 3 though.
#104
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Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 08:27
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One thing I've read about those Witcher games is they don't spell out anything for you. So if people who are upset over the ending because it was poorly explained or didn't make sense, they probably wouldn't want to play a game like that (not you, but anyone reading this).
There has been other RPGs where your choices dictated how the story plays out but the last 5 minutes was similar, bar a few minor details (Mass Effect 3, other games). I don't know what meaningful choices would mean because RPGs are about "illusion of choice" not "choices mattering". You never actually have any choice in these games. You just experience the story as the people who made the game intended and pick from a pre-selected options chosen by them. It's not like Skyrim where it's open world and you can do whatever you want.
The inherent problem of a stat system determining the outcome of the story is that Mass Effect doesn't have the game mechanics to make that worthwhile because a player naturally wants to see all the content thus guaranteeing that given the current lack of meaningful choice they will have the necessary points.
There has been other RPGs where your choices dictated how the story plays out but the last 5 minutes was similar, bar a few minor details (Mass Effect 3, other games). I don't know what meaningful choices would mean because RPGs are about "illusion of choice" not "choices mattering". You never actually have any choice in these games. You just experience the story as the people who made the game intended and pick from a pre-selected options chosen by them. It's not like Skyrim where it's open world and you can do whatever you want.
#105
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 09:43
KaiserShep
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csm4267 wrote...
^ That just sounds like people wanted a happy ending. Where you destroy the Reapers without using an I-Win button and everything more or less goes back to normal. Did you guys forget this game was about choices and consequences right?
All I can say is thank goodness that BioWare did not listen to that guy you linked.
#106
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 09:43
sH0tgUn jUliA
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The Mass Effect series is a mess, and it's a mess right from the beginning. One can start nitpicking the plot apart right from the start of ME1. It is not that well written. It was basically broken out the gate. Who is the most important character in ME1? Is it Liara? No. Is it Wrex? No. Is it Shepard? No. It's Tali'Zorah. Shepard owes her entire career to Tali'Zorah.
Mass Effect 2 was basically an Arnold action movie from the early 1990s.
Mass Effect 3 was basically a 3rd person shooter with some role playing elements and a pseudophilosophical BS ending. Call of Duty Black Ops II had a deeper plot and ending. The problem was that Mac Walters inherited a mess from which to write ME3 and takes the blame for what ME3 turned into.
Mass Effect 2 was basically an Arnold action movie from the early 1990s.
Mass Effect 3 was basically a 3rd person shooter with some role playing elements and a pseudophilosophical BS ending. Call of Duty Black Ops II had a deeper plot and ending. The problem was that Mac Walters inherited a mess from which to write ME3 and takes the blame for what ME3 turned into.
#107
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 09:59
Reth Shepherd
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Quick question: does your name stand for Customer Service Manager? Just curious.
I actually agree with you that the ending to ME3 makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it only does so if one applies an interpretation that, judging by Bioware's reaction to it, was completely unintended. If one tosses out IT and applies a literal interpretation, it quickly falls apart. Logic is completely missing. (Granted, Bioware has never been particularly good at applying logic in their games' stories, so this might well be a company-culture failing.) While the ending loosely hangs together if one only considers the events of ME3, attempting to integrate the ME1, ME2, and expanded universe lore causes the quick destruction of nearly everything in the ending. ME1's ending makes no sense if Glowboy was there all along. The discovery of the Crucible plans and their subsequent creation better fit the pattern of a Reaper trap than they do a billion-year-old superweapon. There is more evidence suggesting that the Reapers CAUSE the 'inevitable' organic/synthetic conflicts than there is that they are legitimately insurmountable. (We know for a fact that the Reapers caused the conflict in the Prothean cycle, and there are noted parallels between that war and the Geth/Quarian conflict. Which conflict, for the record, many Shepards PUT AN END TO.)
Did you know that it's possible to write a satisfying ending intelligently? While taking into account the lore given throughout the series? Did you know that there are multiple plot hooks strung throughout the series that could be used to create an intelligent reason why we might be able to win? If Koobismo can do it, Bioware should have been able to.
I actually agree with you that the ending to ME3 makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it only does so if one applies an interpretation that, judging by Bioware's reaction to it, was completely unintended. If one tosses out IT and applies a literal interpretation, it quickly falls apart. Logic is completely missing. (Granted, Bioware has never been particularly good at applying logic in their games' stories, so this might well be a company-culture failing.) While the ending loosely hangs together if one only considers the events of ME3, attempting to integrate the ME1, ME2, and expanded universe lore causes the quick destruction of nearly everything in the ending. ME1's ending makes no sense if Glowboy was there all along. The discovery of the Crucible plans and their subsequent creation better fit the pattern of a Reaper trap than they do a billion-year-old superweapon. There is more evidence suggesting that the Reapers CAUSE the 'inevitable' organic/synthetic conflicts than there is that they are legitimately insurmountable. (We know for a fact that the Reapers caused the conflict in the Prothean cycle, and there are noted parallels between that war and the Geth/Quarian conflict. Which conflict, for the record, many Shepards PUT AN END TO.)
Did you know that it's possible to write a satisfying ending intelligently? While taking into account the lore given throughout the series? Did you know that there are multiple plot hooks strung throughout the series that could be used to create an intelligent reason why we might be able to win? If Koobismo can do it, Bioware should have been able to.
#108
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 10:04
KaiserShep
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I guess the problem is in abandoning the emotional aspect to nurture the analytical one. It's like ending intercourse with a clinical, droning monologue of how a fetus is conceived mid-coitus.
#109
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 10:16
Ferretinabun
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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
The Mass Effect series is a mess, and it's a mess right from the beginning. One can start nitpicking the plot apart right from the start of ME1. It is not that well written. It was basically broken out the gate. Who is the most important character in ME1? Is it Liara? No. Is it Wrex? No. Is it Shepard? No. It's Tali'Zorah. Shepard owes her entire career to Tali'Zorah.
Just playing devil's advocate; how do you figure that?
#110
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 04:19
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I was happy with it. The major things that were nagging me were put to bed. For instance:
a) What happens to the Mass Effect Universe now that the Mass Relays were destroyed (retconned to "badly damaged" in EC)?
Where the hell did the Normandy Land and why were they there?
c) What happened to my squadmates when the Reaper laser hit us?
d) What about the Krogans and Quarians? What did my actions really do for them?
The additional lore from Leviathan was nice too. It rounded out the Reaper fiction pretty well.
Did I want more? Hell yes I did! But that's how you know when you're a fan: You can NEVER be satisfied and you ALWAYS want more!
So overall, I was very pleased with how it all turned out in the end. I just wished my first time around with the game was less confusing and that the EC wasn't "EC" but in the game straight away, you know? I understand why some people still aren't happy with the endings, but I don't understand people who still rant about it (I haven't been here in a while, but I'm going off of comments in other forums, etc).
a) What happens to the Mass Effect Universe now that the Mass Relays were destroyed (retconned to "badly damaged" in EC)?
Where the hell did the Normandy Land and why were they there?c) What happened to my squadmates when the Reaper laser hit us?
d) What about the Krogans and Quarians? What did my actions really do for them?
The additional lore from Leviathan was nice too. It rounded out the Reaper fiction pretty well.
Did I want more? Hell yes I did! But that's how you know when you're a fan: You can NEVER be satisfied and you ALWAYS want more!
So overall, I was very pleased with how it all turned out in the end. I just wished my first time around with the game was less confusing and that the EC wasn't "EC" but in the game straight away, you know? I understand why some people still aren't happy with the endings, but I don't understand people who still rant about it (I haven't been here in a while, but I'm going off of comments in other forums, etc).
#111
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 04:21
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Eterna5 wrote...
RustyLH wrote...
I have seen videos of the ending and some people have a shot of a body in N7 armor and it suddenly starts breathing again. The implication is that it is Shepard and he is alive. What ending option is that one from? I never saw it, but I really like it.
High EMS Destroy.
The ONLY choice
#112
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 04:58
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csm4267 wrote...
...
There has been other RPGs where your choices dictated how the story plays out but the last 5 minutes was similar, bar a few minor details (Mass Effect 3, other games). I don't know what meaningful choices would mean because RPGs are about "illusion of choice" not "choices mattering". You never actually have any choice in these games. You just experience the story as the people who made the game intended and pick from a pre-selected options chosen by them. It's not like Skyrim where it's open world and you can do whatever you want.
Essentially what I mean is that you need gameplay where the player has a challenge in choosing the option that gives him a better score. But to actually use this kind of mechanic you'd need another game type.
#113
Posté 07 octobre 2013 - 05:02
AlexMBrennan
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/Program Files (x86)/Electronic Arts/Mass Effect 3/BIOGame/Movies/End03_Shepard_Alive_{Male,Female}.bikWhat ending option is that one from? I never saw it, but I really like it.
And you gotta love how they literally named the ending choices red/green/blue
- presumably for those people who find it too hard to make fun of the endings.
Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 07 octobre 2013 - 05:05 .
#114
Guest_csm4267_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:36
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Reth Shepherd wrote...
Quick question: does your name stand for Customer Service Manager? Just curious.
I actually agree with you that the ending to ME3 makes perfect sense. Unfortunately, it only does so if one applies an interpretation that, judging by Bioware's reaction to it, was completely unintended. If one tosses out IT and applies a literal interpretation, it quickly falls apart. Logic is completely missing. (Granted, Bioware has never been particularly good at applying logic in their games' stories, so this might well be a company-culture failing.) While the ending loosely hangs together if one only considers the events of ME3, attempting to integrate the ME1, ME2, and expanded universe lore causes the quick destruction of nearly everything in the ending. ME1's ending makes no sense if Glowboy was there all along. The discovery of the Crucible plans and their subsequent creation better fit the pattern of a Reaper trap than they do a billion-year-old superweapon. There is more evidence suggesting that the Reapers CAUSE the 'inevitable' organic/synthetic conflicts than there is that they are legitimately insurmountable. (We know for a fact that the Reapers caused the conflict in the Prothean cycle, and there are noted parallels between that war and the Geth/Quarian conflict. Which conflict, for the record, many Shepards PUT AN END TO.)
Did you know that it's possible to write a satisfying ending intelligently? While taking into account the lore given throughout the series? Did you know that there are multiple plot hooks strung throughout the series that could be used to create an intelligent reason why we might be able to win? If Koobismo can do it, Bioware should have been able to.
No, but CSM is an acronym for something. Let's face it, you guys are taking the ending at face value. Bioware had no intention of making sure everyone could understand what's going on. If people don't get the ending at this point, or still want closure, stuff answered, ah well. Tough luck.
The ending was satisfying. It just requires a bit of thought to understand instead of taking everything at face value like everyone here. Unfortunately, you guys continue to take the ending at face value, so, sorry, Bioware can't help you. Better luck next time. Don't buy the next game if you're still upset over this. It's that simple.
And you gotta love how they literally named the ending choices red/green/blue
- presumably for those people who find it too hard to make fun of the endings.
Well that's why they haven't done anything to help you. You guys spend more time spouting synthetics memes and making fun of the game than actually playing it and figuring stuff out. Your time is over and you will leave with nothing. The ending will always be unsatisfying for you and Bioware will probably leave you in a ditch and pick up some new customers and forget about you. Based on how you guys treated them over the last year I don't blame them (making fun of the ending, demanding more stuff even after they gave you a free DLC to resolve some of the issues). You brought this whole thing on yourselves. You don't deserve anything at this point and are not worth keeping as a customer.
Modifié par csm4267, 08 octobre 2013 - 02:44 .
#115
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:43
Iakus
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csm4267 wrote...
The ending was satisfying.
No it wasn't
It just requires a bit of thought to understand instead of taking everything at face value like everyone here.
Translation "You're just too stupid to 'get it'"
Unfortunately, you guys continue to take the ending at face value, so, sorry, Bioware can't help you.
Bioware's had two oportunities to help us. If there was a big secret to making the endings good, we would have been told what it is by niow. As it is, face value seems to be the intended way.
Better luck next time. Don't buy the next game if you're still upset over this. It's that simple.
Don't worry, I won't
Modifié par iakus, 08 octobre 2013 - 02:51 .
#116
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:47
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"Tough luck". "Your time is over". Is your life so empty that you feel the need to be a hardass about something like this? Is this your one moment of glory to be some "strong", decisive person? Go find something substantial to act cool about.
I happen to not have that big of a problem with ending myself (the premises at least), so try not to respond as if I do. I just think people like you who go out of their way to defend it are too smug. You're not better than the people who incessantly complain. You take yourselves too seriously.
I happen to not have that big of a problem with ending myself (the premises at least), so try not to respond as if I do. I just think people like you who go out of their way to defend it are too smug. You're not better than the people who incessantly complain. You take yourselves too seriously.
#117
Guest_csm4267_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:48
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iakus wrote...
csm4267 wrote...
The ending was satisfying.
No it wasn'tIt just requires a bit of thought to understand instead of taking everything at face value like everyone here.
Translation "You're just too stupid to 'get it'"Unfortunately, you guys continue to take the ending at face value, so, sorry, Bioware can't help you.
Better luck next time. Don't buy the next game if you're still upset over this. It's that simple.
Don't worry, I won't
You're taking the ending at face value. That's why you don't get it.
Bioware's had two oportunities to help us. If there was a big
secret to making the endings good, we would have been told what it is by
niow. As it is, face value seems to be the intended way.
Well yeah. You'd rather just sit on your butt for 18 months and wait for them to give you the ending explanation. Rather than just play the game and figure it out like the rest of us. You have no work ethic and expect everything to be handed to you on a silver platter. Don't expect anything from them at this point. They're done with you.
I happen to not have that big of a problem with ending myself (the premises at least), so try not to respond as if I do. I just think people like you who go out of their way to defend it are too smug. You're not better than the people who incessantly complain. You take yourselves too seriously.
What part of they've stopped working on this game as of March 5th do you not understand? They're done. No more closure, no more answers, no more explanations. Mass Effect 3 has reached it's end of life.
After that, you're pretty much on your own on figuring out the ending.
Modifié par csm4267, 08 octobre 2013 - 02:54 .
#118
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:52
Iakus
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Yeah definitely troll. not wasting any more time here.
#119
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:55
RZIBARA
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How is the ending too deep for us? lolololol
Thats just beautiful, theres nothing hard to understand, the endings are terrible and go against the rest of the game. There's nothing deep about them, and nothing too complex for us to understand
Thats just beautiful, theres nothing hard to understand, the endings are terrible and go against the rest of the game. There's nothing deep about them, and nothing too complex for us to understand
#120
Guest_csm4267_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:56
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RZIBARA wrote...
How is the ending too deep for us? lolololol
Thats just beautiful, theres nothing hard to understand, the endings are terrible and go against the rest of the game. There's nothing deep about them, and nothing too complex for us to understand
You're taking the ending at face value.
#121
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 02:57
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csm4267 wrote...
What part of they've stopped working on this game as of March 5th do you not understand? They're done. No more closure, no more answers, no more explanations. Mass Effect 3 has reached it's end of life.
After that, you're pretty much on your own on figuring out the ending.
Wtf are you talking about? I just explicitly told you I didn't have much of a problem with the ending. I just don't like your approach here. You. Not the ending. Fair enough?
#122
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 03:00
RZIBARA
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csm4267 wrote...
RZIBARA wrote...
How is the ending too deep for us? lolololol
Thats just beautiful, theres nothing hard to understand, the endings are terrible and go against the rest of the game. There's nothing deep about them, and nothing too complex for us to understand
You're taking the ending at face value.
theres nothing other than face value. Dont tell me IT because thats a load of bull
#123
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 03:01
RZIBARA
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csm4267 wrote...
What part of they've stopped working on this game as of March 5th do you not understand? They're done. No more closure, no more answers, no more explanations. Mass Effect 3 has reached it's end of life.
After that, you're pretty much on your own on figuring out the ending.
this is a false statement. They finished working on this game after Citadel DLC came out (around then)
#124
Guest_csm4267_*
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 03:03
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StreetMagic wrote...
Wtf are you talking about? I just explicitly told you I didn't have much of a problem with the ending. I just don't like your approach here. You. Not the ending. Fair enough?
Put it this way bud, they essentially repeated the same stuff to you that would explain the ending (Leviathan took care of most of it), yet you continue to take the ending at face value.
Okay I'm done here. No point trying to explain this thing to you. Bioware already tried over the last year, but you still don't get it.
theres nothing other than face value. Dont tell me IT because thats a load of bull
You just Bioware to confirm it for you because you're too lazy to use the information in the game and figure it out. You just want to be spoon fed all the answers without lifting a finger. You have no work ethic whatsoever and expect everyone to do everything for you. That's what this is about. This has nothing to do with the ending making sense and everything to do with your lack of work ethic and wanting everything to be handed to you on a silver platter.
Same thing in the real world. People would rather sit around and wait for people to do everything for them, than actually put some work in and get rewarded.
I guess I'm just one of those people who was raised to believe that if you want something you're going to have to work for it. Instead of you guys who want everything on easy street and people to do all the work for you..
Modifié par csm4267, 08 octobre 2013 - 03:10 .
#125
Posté 08 octobre 2013 - 03:04
The Night Mammoth
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Agreed. It's tiring, no less tiring than unproductively moaning about the ending after eighteen months.StreetMagic wrote...
"Tough luck". "Your time is over". Is your life so empty that you feel the need to be a hardass about something like this? Is this your one moment of glory to be some "strong", decisive person? Go find something substantial to act cool about.
I happen to not have that big of a problem with ending myself (the premises at least), so try not to respond as if I do. I just think people like you who go out of their way to defend it are too smug. You're not better than the people who incessantly complain. You take yourselves too seriously.
Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 08 octobre 2013 - 03:10 .
