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[Davrel]

Vit246 wrote...

Davrel wrote...

The arrogance in this thread.
"Not me bro, my iron will wouldn't let anyone tell me what to do. I'd break free and beat up the whole Qun in the name of freedom and liberty."

What about the Tal-Vashoth then?

There are no Tal-Vashoth in this thread. Only modern gamers who think they're so clever and classless and free.

[Taleroth]

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun. 

Considering Thedas is a fantasy setting that's wildly incorrect.

One of that core concepts of fantasy is that someone can achieve nearly anything with just the will to succeed. The peasant/commoner can go out to find adventure and fame!

[Usergnome]

I'm really big into exercise and working out, so I guess I'd be an ideal soldier.

But then again, I wouldn't be happy as a soldier... Unless they decided to give us ACTUAL ARMOR instead of a few shoulderpads and (if you're a sten) a helmet.

So... What does that make me, an Ashaad?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Taleroth wrote...

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun. 

Considering Thedas is a fantasy setting that's wildly incorrect.

One of that core concepts of fantasy is that someone can achieve nearly anything with just the will to succeed. The peasant/commoner can go out to find adventure and fame!

One of the core concepts is that the MAIN CHARACTER can achieve anything, despite his starting point. A peasant in fantasy is still just a downtrodden peasant.

[Will-o'-wisp]

Taleroth wrote...

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun. 

Considering Thedas is a fantasy setting that's wildly incorrect.

One of that core concepts of fantasy is that someone can achieve nearly anything with just the will to succeed. The peasant/commoner can go out to find adventure and fame!

IF he/she's the hero of the story that's currently told. Which leaves everybody else to staying  a peasant.

Plus, that core concept doesn't apply to all fantasy settings, but you see it in quite a lot of them, that's true.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Usergnome wrote...

I'm really big into exercise and working out, so I guess I'd be an ideal soldier.

But then again, I wouldn't be happy as a soldier... Unless they decided to give us ACTUAL ARMOR instead of a few shoulderpads and (if you're a sten) a helmet.

So... What does that make me, an Ashaad?

There is a good reason why Qunari marines don't wear much armor.
And so far all we have met is QUnari marines and a single Sten.

Also remember that Qunari physiology is quite a bit more hardy than your average human, so perhaps they havn't really been in many situations that called for proper armor. I mean, if a Qunari can bite through leather, and even steel given time, then armor would seem less needed for a nation, unlesss they could some more exotic materials to work with.

[Dave of Canada]

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun.

What do you mean? I love serving my lord, he can defile my wife and daughter anytime he wants! It's his right as lord of the land, after all. N-no, I'm not saying this to not get taken to the torture chamber again. No. I'm perfectly comfortable starving in the winter and dying of illness, we're free to do so! I can move to Denerim and suffer there if I want to!

What do you want, guardsman? B-but we just paid the tax, what do you mean he wants more? N-no! Don't hit me again, I'll be a good boy! N-no! Stop!

D-damn Qunari, they don't know how bad they've got it with t-their food, s-shelter and medicine.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2013 - 04:29 .

[Taleroth]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun. 

Considering Thedas is a fantasy setting that's wildly incorrect.

One of that core concepts of fantasy is that someone can achieve nearly anything with just the will to succeed. The peasant/commoner can go out to find adventure and fame!

One of the core concepts is that the MAIN CHARACTER can achieve anything, despite his starting point. A peasant in fantasy is still just a downtrodden peasant.

I have a hard time thinking of a fantasy setting where there's only a singular character that achieves fame and fortune through adventuring.

Dragon Age certainly isn't one. There are entire groups of adventurers and mercenaries running around aside from the player. Not necessarilly equal to the player and often killed by the player, but they aren't peasants stuck being peasants.

[Usergnome]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Usergnome wrote...

I'm really big into exercise and working out, so I guess I'd be an ideal soldier.

But then again, I wouldn't be happy as a soldier... Unless they decided to give us ACTUAL ARMOR instead of a few shoulderpads and (if you're a sten) a helmet.

So... What does that make me, an Ashaad?

There is a good reason why Qunari marines don't wear much armor.
And so far all we have met is QUnari marines and a single Sten.

Also remember that Qunari physiology is quite a bit more hardy than your average human, so perhaps they havn't really been in many situations that called for proper armor. I mean, if a Qunari can bite through leather, and even steel given time, then armor would seem less needed for a nation, unlesss they could some more exotic materials to work with.

Oh I know, but this is "my" place in the Qun, and I am human viddathari, not Kossith. And I need some armor!

Modifié par Usergnome, 07 octobre 2013 - 04:33 .

[Br3admax]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun.

What do you mean? I love serving my lord, he can defile my wife and daughter anytime he wants! It's his right as lord of the land, after all. N-no, I'm not saying this to not get taken to the torture chamber again. No. I'm perfectly comfortable starving in the winter and dying of illness, we're free to do so! I can move to Denerim and suffer there if I want to!

What do you want, guardsman? B-but we just paid the tax, what do you mean he wants more? N-no! Don't hit me again, I'll be a good boy! N-no! Stop!

D-damn Qunari, they don't know how bad they've got it with t-their food, s-shelter and medicine.

Good man. You'll do just fine with that attitude. 

[Johun]

Taleroth wrote...

I have a hard time thinking of a fantasy setting where there's only a singular character that achieves fame and fortune through adventuring.

Dragon Age certainly isn't one. There are entire groups of adventurers and mercenaries running around aside from the player. Not necessarilly equal to the player and often killed by the player, but they aren't peasants stuck being peasants.

Not to mention Loghain. Although, his father was an ex-sergeant turned farmer, turned bandit, turned knight. So I guess he has a bit of a head start there.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Taleroth wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Taleroth wrote...

Poison93 wrote...

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun. 

Considering Thedas is a fantasy setting that's wildly incorrect.

One of that core concepts of fantasy is that someone can achieve nearly anything with just the will to succeed. The peasant/commoner can go out to find adventure and fame!

One of the core concepts is that the MAIN CHARACTER can achieve anything, despite his starting point. A peasant in fantasy is still just a downtrodden peasant.

I have a hard time thinking of a fantasy setting where there's only a singular character that achieves fame and fortune through adventuring.

Dragon Age certainly isn't one. There are entire groups of adventurers and mercenaries running around aside from the player. Not necessarilly equal to the player and often killed by the player, but they aren't peasants stuck being peasants.

I was merely illustrating a point. But fine, I'll add the extra s.

MAIN CHARACTERS

There. Happy?

[The Qun & the Damned]

My place in the Qun... dead. I was a Male Saarebas and I tried to tell a dirty limerick to Arvaarad. He claimed I hit him with some sort of evil love beam and had me executed as a result. Not that it mattered to him anyway, he's beheaded too for "demonic posession"

[Taleroth]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I was merely illustrating a point. But fine, I'll add the extra s.

MAIN CHARACTERS

There. Happy?

Are you somehow under the impression I was only talking about party members? Because I wasn't.

There are entire groups of adventurers and mercenaries running around aside from the player.

That should have been some indication I wasn't talking about Leliana.

[Sir JK]

It is an interesting question. What my place in the Qun would be.

I'd imagine it'd be something scholarly or intellectual (I'd like to think so anyways), I'm not really built for the physical. I'm also not too comfortable with lots of people and I seriously doubt I'd be Ben-Hassrath material.

I do wonder just how much freedom there'd be within the role. I value the freedom I have fairly highly, but if the freedom within the role is decent and allows me growth and stimulating challenges I could probably be fairly happy within the Qun. For a while anyways.
I need to learn more about the Qun before I could tell, really.

[Fredward]

Poison93 wrote...
Lol, I like how all the "I'd leave immediately or die trying" people seem to have that much of a problem with the Qun taking away their freedom and free will.

The Qun assigns you to a job that you're good at and teaches you how every part of the body fulfills an important task for maintaining the function of the whole being.

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun.

The only thing that somewhat bothers me about the Qun is their extreme treatment of mages, but apart from that the Qunari society seem to be the best possible society in Thedas to live in imo.

Oh please. In any other part of Thedas if I am born a farmer I could choose to a) remain a farmer just making enough to feed myself and my children attempt to start harvesting a surplus and selling it and maybe later getting a bigger farm c) become a soldier and leave the pigs behind d) become an artist using mashed potatoes as paint e) write bad poetry using mash potatoes as ink f) attempt to ingratiate myself to a lord, get some class and maybe elevate myself to a slightly higher social class g) become an inn keeper by converting my barn h) protest mage and/or elf injustice i) join the clergy j) become a travelling bard telling tales of my mashed potatoes k) become a sailor l) become a **** m) become a templar n) become a member of the city watch o) start a travelling circus p) start raising mabaris (and feed them mashed potatoes).

These choices aren't for everyone, they aren't necessarily viable, most of them probably aren't even good ones but they are choices. That you can make. For yourself. Qunari society has vertical social mobility, you can be a soldier and if you're a good automoton maybe later you can be a slightly better soldier. There is no choosing to stop being a soldier and becoming a merchant. This is not done. Vertical mobility may be limited elsewhere in Thedas, in some circles, but you have a virtually endless panoply of horizontal roles you can pick. Also can I just mention there is a huge difference between being born into a role (ie farmer) and being assigned a role. One implies true lack of choice and the other is choice being dictated.

I realize that some people are totally cool with giving up their freedom and independent thought for safety and security - whatever. I don't care, that's your choice. Just like stay over there and don't try and shove your evil, soulless, artificial construct down my throat. Which is where my problem with the Qun crops up. Please let me waddle in my nonsensical inefficiency, I'm quite happy here.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Taleroth wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I was merely illustrating a point. But fine, I'll add the extra s.

MAIN CHARACTERS

There. Happy?

Are you somehow under the impression I was only talking about party members? Because I wasn't.

Are you under the impression that I was? Cause I wasn't. The only characters in fantasy who holds any hope of advancement in any shape or form, are the ones with relevance to the plot. But for every plot relevant character, there are thousands, even millions, of faceless peasants who are there simply as cannonfoder for the story. Don't try and pass off fantasy genre as some kind of "equal oppertunity" utopia...

[frankf43]

No where near the crazy Oxmen

[Gwydden]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
Are you under the impression that I was? Cause I wasn't. The only characters in fantasy who holds any hope of advancement in any shape or form, are the ones with relevance to the plot. But for every plot relevant character, there are thousands, even millions, of faceless peasants who are there simply as cannonfoder for the story. Don't try and pass off fantasy genre as some kind of "equal oppertunity" utopia...

It's not. People can still advance in society. It's very difficult and it depends mostly on luck, but it is possible. You can also be something different. One problem I have with the Qun is that how can you be so sure that someone you decided would be a soldier wouldn't be an even better merchant? Also, that you're good at something doesn't mean you like it. Back in high school they used to tell me I was good at math, but I thought it was the most boring thing on Earth.

Also, in a world like Thedas, the average qunari probably lives better than the average human.The Qun is not so different from the Circles in concept. The freedoms of the individuals are restricted for the benefit of the majority. However, there are always people who wish something different for their lives. Not necessarily better, like so many think. Just different. And so apostates and Tal Vashoth are born.

Ultimately, it comes down to personal preference. Some would give up some freedom in exchange for safety and stability. Others wouldn't.

[Gikia-Kimikia]

... So, ignoring the rather heated conversation going on in this thread right now, thinking about my possible place in the Qun is pretty interesting!
If I were raised as a Qunari (I speak of the race, sometimes called Kossith,as well as the religion in this case), I'd like to think that with my overall personality and talents I would become a scholar of some sort. I am good at writing and in-depth thought, and not much else, and I'm sure there's some use for those skills in Qunari society and some slot in the Qun where I would fit in. Perhaps I could write poetry, hahaha.
Of course, I would love to be a Tamassran, specifically one of the Tamassran who raises and educates children, but I hold no illusions as to my skills in that area; I coddle too much and scold too little to be a viable caretaker, especially as a life-long profession.
As for the whole debate going on about Qunari society as it relates to other societies in Thedas, and the likelihood of so many individuals in this thread being unable to stomach life in the Qun and immediately breaking away as Tal-Vashoth... I'm not touching THAT with a six foot longsword.

[Taleroth]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Are you under the impression that I was? Cause I wasn't. The only characters in fantasy who holds any hope of advancement in any shape or form, are the ones with relevance to the plot. 

Main character doesn't mean "relevant to the plot." Lots of minor characters are relevant to the plot. And many of them, even nameless ones, were adventurers or mercenaries.

Which means we've included in this super special category... totally generic NPCs.

And yes, they advance because the plot says they should. But you're basically touting the anthropic principle, not saying anything about the setting. The stuff in the story happens because it requires it to happen for their to be a story.

But the point stands, in the story, there's a whole lot of social advancement going on. Tons of it. By people who simply wished to dreg themselves up from the dirt.

Modifié par Taleroth, 07 octobre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Wulfram]

I'd think Fereldan has a fair amount of possibilities for advancement, at least for non-elves. While Orlais would have far more rigid social roles. And Tevinter would depend on having magic of course, or at least being friends with a mage.

Don't know about Kirkwall, it seems like we learnt remarkably little about their culture. Though cities usually have at least some opportunity for a smart person to get ahead.

[robertthebard]

Poison93 wrote...

Lol, I like how all the "I'd leave immediately or die trying" people seem to have that much of a problem with the Qun taking away their freedom and free will.

The Qun assigns you to a job that you're good at and teaches you how every part of the body fulfills an important task for maintaining the function of the whole being.

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun.

The only thing that somewhat bothers me about the Qun is their extreme treatment of mages, but apart from that the Qunari society seem to be the best possible society in Thedas to live in imo.

Wait; so being born in a non Qun Society and

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun

is somehow inferior to somebody that is born within the Qun and still has no chance at social advancement?  How, in the Qun, are you more than a slave to your master?  Isn't that what being told "you are good at this, and this is all you'll ever be, should ever aspire to be" the same thing?  Or, is it different only because you have head canon that it is.  Because, you know, being born into a society with no chance for advancement means pretty much the same thing, and frankly, you're much more of a "slave" in the Qun.  I mean, come on, it's not like a Dwarf Commoner, or a City Elf could ever stop a blight before it gets out of Ferelden, is it?

[Texhnolyze101]

I have no "Place" in this stupid race and its equally stupid religion nor do i want one.

[kathic]

Basalit-an