228 réponses à ce sujet

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Filament wrote...

Probably a baker, same as half the other qunari ever since Sten became Arishok.

I'm fairly certain that's not within the purview of the Arishok.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Maybe the Tamassrans will love cookies too.

[TEWR]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Filament wrote...

Probably a baker, same as half the other qunari ever since Sten became Arishok.

I'm fairly certain that's not within the purview of the Arishok.

The Stenishok will find a way.

[dragonflight288]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Filament wrote...

Probably a baker, same as half the other qunari ever since Sten became Arishok.

I'm fairly certain that's not within the purview of the Arishok.

The Stenishok will find a way.

He'll take cookies from fat slovenly kids who don't need them anymore.

[EmperorSahlertz]

sandalisthemaker wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

sandalisthemaker wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...


After all, it is not like the Qunari are emtionless mute husks until age 12. They have hopes and dreams as any child, and possibly far better chances of realizing their dreams, than even we in our world do.

Their "education" probably does render them mute and emotionless husks until age 12.  
"Hopes" and "dreams" don't really lend themselves to the "Certainty" of the Qun, and such whimsy is most likely quashed at an early age by said education.

Ah yes, your baseless prejudice towards ideologies different than you own...

Is it any more baseless than your blind support of said ideology?

I don't necesarrily support the Qunari. I certainly wouldn't want to live in Qunari society, given my own upbringing in the western world. However, I strive towards understanding, and when I see ignorants make wild accusations and baseless claims, I try to enlighten and correct them. I see a lot of ignorants trying to pass themselves off as experts on the Qunari, while clearly showing failure at understanding the core concepts of Qunari.

[Will-o'-wisp]

robertthebard wrote...

Wait; so being born in a non Qun Society and

In every other part of Thedas you're born a peasant/commoner who's nothing more than a slave to his/her noble master, has very few rights, no social mobility whatsoever and doesn't have any bit more "freedom" or "free will" than someone who lives in the Qun

is somehow inferior to somebody that is born within the Qun and still has no chance at social advancement?  How, in the Qun, are you more than a slave to your master?  Isn't that what being told "you are good at this, and this is all you'll ever be, should ever aspire to be" the same thing?  Or, is it different only because you have head canon that it is.  Because, you know, being born into a society with no chance for advancement means pretty much the same thing, and frankly, you're much more of a "slave" in the Qun.  I mean, come on, it's not like a Dwarf Commoner, or a City Elf could ever stop a blight before it gets out of Ferelden, is it?

Of course it is inferior to being assigned to your role. You're Born a peasant. That's it, now you're a peasant.

In the Qun you are Born as equal to everyone else and educated until the Age of 12 until the Tamassran choose your future Profession based on your talents. And whatever you will be, you will be respected as a contributor to your Society. You're not just "some filthy, stupid peasant" and noone views you as their property. I don't see how that can be considered slavery.
As Qunari you can even ascent within your role, just look at Sten who became Arishok. I guess it's like that in many other professions as well and inside the Qun you are not restricted by the Status you were born into.

[Will-o'-wisp]

StreetMagic wrote...

As a peasant, I'm still free to hate society and not give a **** about contributing. [...] Or if I go nuts, I can be a bandit. Maybe some noble adventurer will cut me down on the way to his big epic quest, but it'll be fun in the meantime.

Sure, if you want to go crazy and travel around murdering People, you can also become Tal'Vashoth, no difference there. 

In most cases, I can work, switch careers, get experience at different things, exceed my limitations by practicing new skills, get by enough to feed myself, and stay out of people's hair (and they stay out of mine).

Switch careers to...? Homeless beggar? Bandit? Slave? Cannon fodder in your local army?

Sure People will stay out of your hair most of the time, as long as you don't Forget to send your tribute to your local nobles and don't live during the time of a war, when soldiers are robbing farms, killing and raping People, etc.

[GodWood]

StreetMagic wrote...
As a peasant, I'm still free to hate society and not give a **** about contributing. In most cases, I can work, switch careers, get experience at different things, exceed my limitations by practicing new skills, get by enough to feed myself, and stay out of people's hair (and they stay out of mine). Or if I go nuts, I can be a bandit.

Indeed.

The millions that suffer and die in a life of slavery in serfdom do not do so out of coercion, necessity or for lack of other options, rather they do so out of their own happy choosing.

Freedom!

Modifié par GodWood, 08 octobre 2013 - 10:13 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

StreetMagic wrote...

As a peasant, I'm still free to hate society and not give a **** about contributing. In most cases, I can work, switch careers, get experience at different things, exceed my limitations by practicing new skills, get by enough to feed myself, and stay out of people's hair (and they stay out of mine). Or if I go nuts, I can be a bandit. Maybe some noble adventurer will cut me down on the way to his big epic quest, but it'll be fun in the meantime.

A peasant can't just "switch careers". A peasant is a peasant because he often has no otehr choice, since he can only supply for himself and his family through his hard labour as a peasant. He can't just from one day to the other decide that now he is a merchant. He and his entire family would die.
They are also often exceptionally uneducated, and wouldn't even be able to run a shop, even if they wanted to.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 08 octobre 2013 - 10:14 .

[billy the squid]

StreetMagic wrote...

As a peasant, I'm still free to hate society and not give a **** about contributing. In most cases, I can work, switch careers, get experience at different things, exceed my limitations by practicing new skills, get by enough to feed myself, and stay out of people's hair (and they stay out of mine). Or if I go nuts, I can be a bandit. Maybe some noble adventurer will cut me down on the way to his big epic quest, but it'll be fun in the meantime.

This is such utter rubbish. There really is no other word for it.

Feudalism kept the pesants on the lowest rung due to their position as serfs. They owned no land, they owned no weapons, they had no livestock. Everything they had was owned by their Feudal Lord, who could if he wished, have them executed on a whim. They were conscripted as cannon fodder troops and had no health care, sanitation or rights. Effectively they were the lowest of the low and died in the muck and filth, most before they were 40. And if they rebelled, well I think you can imagine what happened when untrained, unarmoured men went up against fully armed and armoured soldiers trained from birth as warriors. 

You didn't practice skills as you worked from sunrise to sunset to feed yourself and pay the taxes of your overlord, you had no career choice as there was no training. The best you could hope for was to be taken on as an apprentice by a craftsman at a young age. Maybe taken as a mercenary, although this was an English thing, recruiting Longbowmen from a trained pesantry into a military  band under command of a Captain. Both rare occurances.

As a bandit? You mean a poacher, to feed oneself because you were starving. You'd be hung when you were eventually caught and if you're lucky you'd break your neck before the trickle of ****** ran down your leg as you lost control of your bladder. 

But hey, how about that freedom! Got to love the freedom.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Pretty much what 'the squid' said...

The average Fereldan peasant would have about the same amount of education as an English peasant, and the same work schedule, which means all day.

Modifié par EmperorSahlertz, 08 octobre 2013 - 10:37 .

[Will-o'-wisp]

StreetMagic wrote...

Yeah, no difference. Not sure why you mention it. Tal'Vashoth aren't Qunari. They're exactly what I said: bandits.

And i wasn't sure why you even mentioned it. XD
Exiting Society is always an Option, no difference which one you're in.

If that's the limit of your imagination, that's your problem. Not mine. Maybe some peasant learned to make a great beer, and now everyone values him for that than they would cannon fodder. Maybe a woman learns to quilt and supplies the cannon fodder with comfortable beds. Maybe they make coffins. Maybe someone invents a great cheese. The world of full of possibilities (not as much without education, but there's still room).

Lol, I guess the Problem is, that you're using your imagination and I'm using common sense. ^^
Peasants have a ****load of work with their farm and are usually struggling to stay alive, why would they suddenly start producing and selling beer or cheese? You no that you need knowledge and ressources for that, right? That cost money that peasants don't have?

[billy the squid]

StreetMagic wrote...

Who says you can't have a farm? This is not the real world. You can't hold me to some realistic medieval English standard, all in the hopes of getting me to convert to some fantasy religion run by Cow Men. Nothing is quite realistic. Everything needs to be redefined on Thedas' terms.

Well if you're going to redefine things at random, because it doesn't fit with what you want to see feudal society as, then the entire point of having the Qun as a counter balance to Thedas's medieval society is pointless. Ipso facto the various races of the DA universe are pointless, they may as well not exist and we should have a no elves, dwarves, Qunari only humans. No peasants, nobles or chantry. No various States and countries.

Hell we should turn it into a JRPG, if we can just redefine anything we want.

And no one is trying to convert you, you're being told that your logic is disingeneous and dumb, what you do with that information is neither here nor there.

[EmperorSahlertz]

No one cares that you prefer something else to the Qunari. We care that you use faulty logic, that doesn't hold water. We try and advise you to reevaluate your logic, and thus come up with a more thought out approach, to whichever result you want.

[Wulfram]

I don't think Ferelden has serfdom. Not sure if we've got anything explicit on that front, but generally free Ferelden is contrasted to Orlais, which definitely does have serfs.

If you appeal to medieval europe, then serfdom was on it's way out by the 15th century in England and I believe in the rest of western europe - and Thedas seems fairly late medieval generally.

Of course there are still practical difficulties to leaving your farm even if there isn't any legal impediment

[Andraste_Reborn]

Even if the best you can do is to be fed by tamassrans, you will be in that spot. Everybody do the best they can. And if being fed is your only talent, that is what will happen. Nobody dies needlessly under the Qun. Whether you are crippled, born deformed or with magic, the Qun does not wish to see you dead. You exist to be, such is your role as a living creature. And the Qun demands you ascertain that duty.

I don't think we have enough information on how the Qunari deal with mental illness for anyone to make that declaration about my enirely hypothetical alternate universe self. I have no idea how they treat people who spend a substantial amount of time hearing things that aren't real, but I suspect the answer may be 'not well'.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I realise I would be pretty screwed-over in most pre-21st century societies. (Frankly, I am pretty screwed-over now.) However, I'd still take my chance with some other cultures in Thedas over the Qunari. Andraste started out a slave, claimed a god spoke to her and ended up a religious icon after all ...

Modifié par Andrastee, 08 octobre 2013 - 11:20 .