132 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

I'm sorry OP, but your bias are clearly coloring the Qunari day needlessly negative.

[Xilizhra]

What is compelling about the Qun? A society without economic oppression. A society where there is no fear of being fired and starving to death should you screw up at work tomorrow. A society where nobody has to feel like they are useless. The virtues and duties of your life are defined so that you can work with what you are good at and never have to under- or oversell yourself.

The first isn't yet proven because we haven't seen their society, it's just in their propaganda. And if you are useless by virtue of just not wanting to work for them, you have your mind stripped out of you and get used as a hard laborer... unless you're a mage, in which case they mutilate and enslave you out of hand.

[EmperorSahlertz]

A Bas-Saarebas doesn't get enslaved. They get killed.

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

A Bas-Saarebas doesn't get enslaved. They get killed.

Oh, what a step up.

[Cainhurst Crow]

I think you overestimate the whole efficiency thing, as well as qunari as being little more than flesh robots.

They have social interaction, friendship, homes, more than protein paste, even romantic partners believe it or not, though love and baby making are two separate concepts to them.

Just read the wiki and look up stens fade sequence, both would contradict your version of qunari being little more than emotionless, self contained automotons who merely toil, sleep, and recite the qun.

[Xilizhra]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I think you overestimate the whole efficiency thing, as well as qunari as being little more than flesh robots.

They have social interaction, friendship, homes, more than protein paste, even romantic partners believe it or not, though love and baby making are two separate concepts to them.

Just read the wiki and look up stens fade sequence, both would contradict your version of qunari being little more than emotionless, self contained automotons who merely toil, sleep, and recite the qun.

Sten says that they weren't acting like real qunari.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I think you overestimate the whole efficiency thing, as well as qunari as being little more than flesh robots.

They have social interaction, friendship, homes, more than protein paste, even romantic partners believe it or not, though love and baby making are two separate concepts to them.

Just read the wiki and look up stens fade sequence, both would contradict your version of qunari being little more than emotionless, self contained automotons who merely toil, sleep, and recite the qun.

Sten says that they weren't acting like real qunari.

I don't remember that. I remember he said they were both killed and that them being alive was a dream he didn't mind. Looks like its a trip to youtube for me.

I youtubed it. Xil, you're wrong.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 07 octobre 2013 - 01:18 .

[Navasha]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm sorry OP, but your bias are clearly coloring the Qunari day needlessly negative.

Then please, describe for me of how you would view a typical day.    I have no other way of seeing their society at the moment.    For such a rigidly controlled collectivist society focused on efficiency, I think I am being pretty accurate.     I would love to see what others believe this society might look like from their perspective. 

[Br3admax]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I think you overestimate the whole efficiency thing, as well as qunari as being little more than flesh robots.

They have social interaction, friendship, homes, more than protein paste, even romantic partners believe it or not, though love and baby making are two separate concepts to them.

Just read the wiki and look up stens fade sequence, both would contradict your version of qunari being little more than emotionless, self contained automotons who merely toil, sleep, and recite the qun.

Sten says that they weren't acting like real qunari.

I don't remember that. I remember he said they were both killed and that them being alive was a dream he didn't mind. Looks like its a trip to youtube for me.

Yeah, I don't know where the whole not acting like real qunari came from. I just did this, and it seems like Sten isn't fooled becasue he saw one of them get his head ripped off. 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Navasha wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm sorry OP, but your bias are clearly coloring the Qunari day needlessly negative.

Then please, describe for me of how you would view a typical day.    I have no other way of seeing their society at the moment.    For such a rigidly controlled collectivist society focused on efficiency, I think I am being pretty accurate.     I would love to see what others believe this society might look like from their perspective. 

I think your not that far off to be honest. I just think a lot of the smaller details such as silent meals, constant priest monitoring and recitement, and the just general coldness your post gives the qunari in their interactions with one another aren't quite right. Also their food being tasteless protien, I doubt there cuisine is worse than fereldans.

[Wulfram]

I'd expect daily life to be full of propaganda, suspicion and repression, and more like 1984 than anything, just because I don't see how else Qunari society can function as described - unless there's an unrevealed magical component to Qunari brainwashing, anyway. But I don't think that's what Bioware are going for.

Probably because Orwell was seeking to show the evil of a totalitarian society, whereas Bioware, for whatever reason, seem to want to make us question the value of freedom.

Modifié par Wulfram, 07 octobre 2013 - 01:27 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd expect daily life to be full of propaganda, suspicion and repression, and more like 1984 than anything, just because I don't see how else Qunari society can function as described - unless there's an unrevealed magical component to Qunari brainwashing, anyway. But I don't think that's what Bioware are going for.

Probably because Orwell was seeking to show the evil of a totalitarian society, whereas Bioware, for whatever reason, seem to want to make us question the value of freedom.

So because you don't understand how their society works, they're either evil pervasive totalitarians, or they are using the equivalent of blood magic to control everyone. 

Lovely.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Also, as a final note.

Sten is a better mage than wynne.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Navasha wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

I'm sorry OP, but your bias are clearly coloring the Qunari day needlessly negative.

Then please, describe for me of how you would view a typical day.    I have no other way of seeing their society at the moment.    For such a rigidly controlled collectivist society focused on efficiency, I think I am being pretty accurate.     I would love to see what others believe this society might look like from their perspective. 

Well, for starters I don't think their society is quite as rigid as you make it sound like. The Qunari wouldn't commit two Ben-Hassrath to a single workforce, unless they had reason to expect that there were rebellion brewing. Also, the daily recitation of the Qun, might be a bit much, though I have no doubt that the Qun would be mandatory knowledge for all Qunari, at least the sections relevant to their role.
The bleak and emotionless meal, also seems needlessly negative. First of all they live on tropical island, so fruit and vegetables, should be expected. Secondly, there is nothing that prevents a Qunari from forming emotional bonds with one another. It is probably even encouraged. Since a relaxed soul through friendship, would help rela the body, and thus improve work performance. The Qunari have no interest in tearing down their population physically. The longer a Qunari remains functional, the better he can serve the Qun after all.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

I'd expect daily life to be full of propaganda, suspicion and repression, and more like 1984 than anything, just because I don't see how else Qunari society can function as described - unless there's an unrevealed magical component to Qunari brainwashing, anyway. But I don't think that's what Bioware are going for.

Probably because Orwell was seeking to show the evil of a totalitarian society, whereas Bioware, for whatever reason, seem to want to make us question the value of freedom.

So because you don't understand how their society works, they're either evil pervasive totalitarians, or they are using the equivalent of blood magic to control everyone. 

Lovely.

People will always fear and hate what they don't understand, and if they can't find any clear reasons to hate it, they will make up their own.

[Wulfram]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So because you don't understand how their society works, they're either evil pervasive totalitarians, or they are using the equivalent of blood magic to control everyone. 

Lovely.

They're evil  totalitarians because that's what the Qun is.  That's not ambiguous at all.

The question is how effective their brainwashing is, because that determines how pervasive ther surveillance and re-education systems need to be.

[Navasha]

Wulfram wrote...

I'd expect daily life to be full of propaganda, suspicion and repression, and more like 1984 than anything, just because I don't see how else Qunari society can function as described - unless there's an unrevealed magical component to Qunari brainwashing, anyway. But I don't think that's what Bioware are going for.

Probably because Orwell was seeking to show the evil of a totalitarian society, whereas Bioware, for whatever reason, seem to want to make us question the value of freedom.

I actually see the Qunari as a variation of the World State in Brave New World myself.    Rather than just everything being propaganda to a misled population, they are actually bred and conditioned for their "role" in society.    Although they seem to use a forceful adherence to the Qun instead of the free sex and orgies in that book to maintain society.

[Dave of Canada]

Wake up.
Eat designated breakfest.
Walk to designated area.
Work designated job.
Eat designated lunch.
Work designated job.
Flirt with other designated workers of opposite sex.
Eat designated dinner in tears.
Look down upon other societies.
Go to bed.
Have nightmares of other societies.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 07 octobre 2013 - 01:47 .

[Br3admax]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think something a lot of people need to learn about the qunari is that, while they are alien in a lot of ways, they are not mindless drones. They have likes, dislikes, they form friendships with each other. They like to drink tea and enjoy the smell of it.

They are people. Not robots.

BSN; where people are treated like robots, and robots like people.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[Xilizhra]

I don't remember that. I remember he said they were both killed and that them being alive was a dream he didn't mind. Looks like its a trip to youtube for me.

I youtubed it. Xil, you're wrong.

Did you take the dialogue option saying "so this is what qunari are like?"

Also, as a final note.

Sten is a better mage than wynne.

No, the sloth demon just created an impossible illusion for him, as it did for the PC and Morrigan. Wynne's may seem impossible but isn't; we do see spirits in the shapes of dead souls in the Brecilian Forest, for instance.

[Navasha]

Xilizhra wrote...

No, the sloth demon just created an impossible illusion for him, as it did for the PC and Morrigan. Wynne's may seem impossible but isn't; we do see spirits in the shapes of dead souls in the Brecilian Forest, for instance.

This is my take as well.   It was a sloth demon.   The dreams it tries to make for everyone are based on that viewpoint.   Take it easy... be lazy, be content.     This viewpoint is so contrary to Sten's conditioning that it is simply unbelievable to him.     Since the ONLY time we have seen Qunari follower acting jovial or "normal" is in Sten's demon-conceived dream, which even he himself found completely contrived doesn't lend much credence to them living a joyful life.