132 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Even if it isn't popular, there should be a portion of the population that eventually converts over.

There was a portion, just not a terribly large one.

[Plaintiff]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know, my friends. My favorite irony in this thread is that the person decrying mindrape has a Morinth avatar.

I mourn her lost potential.

As a psychopathic rapist murderer?

[Xilizhra]

Plaintiff wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know, my friends. My favorite irony in this thread is that the person decrying mindrape has a Morinth avatar.

I mourn her lost potential.

As a psychopathic rapist murderer?

As a potentially reformable one who might not have been as bad as her mother said. I'd have wished for a bit more gray to that story.

[Plaintiff]

Xilizhra wrote...
As a potentially reformable one who might not have been as bad as her mother said. I'd have wished for a bit more gray to that story.

I feel for the Ardat Yakshi as much as anyone, and think the way they're treated by the rest of the Asari is abominable. But Morinth killed, among others, a lonely young woman who never harmed her, and is clearly remorseless about it.

I don't see how there can ever be "reformation" for people who wilfully hurt others for no other reason than that they get off on it.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 08 octobre 2013 - 02:54 .

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, there's the thing: they could choose what they saw to be in their best interests. And I don't think it was a minority anyway, since the qunari took more territory than just Rivain, but only Rivain has a qunari population remaining, and even there I believe it's a minority.

Presumbably because they fled with the qunari, were killed by the chantry, or forcibly re-converted to the chantry

Or, shock of shocks, the qunari just weren't that popular.

Which is obviously incorrect, given the amount of mass killings the Chantry had to do, to cleanse Rivain of Qunari influence again.

[Xilizhra]

I feel for the Ardat Yakshi as much as anyone, and think the way they're treated by the rest of the Asari is abominable. But Morinth killed, among others, a lonely young woman who never harmed her, and is clearly remorseless about it.

I don't see how there can ever be "reformation" for people who wilfully hurt others for no other reason than that it gets them off.

Well, she's addicted, and if she learned of her condition by killing someone by accident, that'd shove a substantial nail in her coffin right off the bat.

Which is obviously incorrect, given the amount of mass killings the Chantry had to do, to cleanse Rivain of Qunari influence again.

Only in Rivain, despite the qunari taking far more territory than that... and I'm fairly sure it was only one mass killing. Not that it was good, of course, but don't pretend that the whole country went qunari.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, there's the thing: they could choose what they saw to be in their best interests. And I don't think it was a minority anyway, since the qunari took more territory than just Rivain, but only Rivain has a qunari population remaining, and even there I believe it's a minority.

Presumbably because they fled with the qunari, were killed by the chantry, or forcibly re-converted to the chantry

Or, shock of shocks, the qunari just weren't that popular.

Which is obviously incorrect, given the amount of mass killings the Chantry had to do, to cleanse Rivain of Qunari influence again.

We don't know why they refused to re-convert, it doesn't prove anyything.

If it did, then we could argue that in DA2, the Qunari only succeeded in converting a few elves, and even then, they lost people. The rest of Thedas isn't exactly flocking to Par Vollen enmasse, so the Chantry is clearly the superior choice. Right?

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rivain was the only country where the Qunari had time to settle in. They conquered it first, and didn't let go of it, until the very last days of the war. The rest of their conquered territories were more in flux, with the borders of the war everchanging. So it stands to reason that the Qunari didn't waste many resources on trying to convert these populations, since the resources would be better spent on the frontline.

[Wulfram]

(My emphasis. From this thread that's got lots of Qunari related stuff)

Mary Kirby wrote...

It does take powerful conditioning to adopt the "Everything is done for the good of the society and not for the individual" mentality. There's a reason why, for the most part, Qunari convert people to the Qun by conquering them, dismantling their society, separating their families, and raising all their children as Qunari.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 octobre 2013 - 03:03 .

[Xilizhra]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rivain was the only country where the Qunari had time to settle in. They conquered it first, and didn't let go of it, until the very last days of the war. The rest of their conquered territories were more in flux, with the borders of the war everchanging. So it stands to reason that the Qunari didn't waste many resources on trying to convert these populations, since the resources would be better spent on the frontline.

When the conversion and soldier jobs are handled by entirely different castes? That strikes me as fishy, at best.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Plaintiff wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, there's the thing: they could choose what they saw to be in their best interests. And I don't think it was a minority anyway, since the qunari took more territory than just Rivain, but only Rivain has a qunari population remaining, and even there I believe it's a minority.

Presumbably because they fled with the qunari, were killed by the chantry, or forcibly re-converted to the chantry

Or, shock of shocks, the qunari just weren't that popular.

Which is obviously incorrect, given the amount of mass killings the Chantry had to do, to cleanse Rivain of Qunari influence again.

We don't know why they refused to re-convert, it doesn't prove anyything.

If it did, then we could argue that in DA2, the Qunari only succeeded in converting a few elves, and even then, they lost people. The rest of Thedas isn't exactly flocking to Par Vollen enmasse, so the Chantry is clearly the superior choice. Right?

.... What? 

[billy the squid]

Xilizhra wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...
Well, there's the thing: they could choose what they saw to be in their best interests. And I don't think it was a minority anyway, since the qunari took more territory than just Rivain, but only Rivain has a qunari population remaining, and even there I believe it's a minority.

Presumbably because they fled with the qunari, were killed by the chantry, or forcibly re-converted to the chantry

Or, shock of shocks, the qunari just weren't that popular.

Got to love that selective reading. 

You know the part were the Chantry killed anyone who didn't re convert and dumped them in mass graves. Although it was officially denied.

The Qunari promptly withdrew after that despite the Third Exalted Martch doing nothing but massacaring th population in Rivian.

Nor have you even noticed that most elves from Tevinter and the peasantry from Thedas joined the Qun after the Qunari invasion, because of the marked improvement in outlook compared to their miserable position in before hand.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Rivain was the only country where the Qunari had time to settle in. They conquered it first, and didn't let go of it, until the very last days of the war. The rest of their conquered territories were more in flux, with the borders of the war everchanging. So it stands to reason that the Qunari didn't waste many resources on trying to convert these populations, since the resources would be better spent on the frontline.

When the conversion and soldier jobs are handled by entirely different castes? That strikes me as fishy, at best.

Resources are resources. There were simply different priorities for the Qunari as a whole, than the conversion of the frontline.

[Xilizhra]

You know the part were the Chantry killed anyone who didn't re convert and dumped them in mass graves. Although it was officially denied.

Not anyone, there are still a fair few qunari over there.

Nor have you even noticed that most elves from Tevinter and the peasantry from Thedas joined the Qun after the Qunari invasion, because of the marked improvement in outlook compared to their miserable position in before hand.

Oddly not true. Fenris, for instance, would have been in a perfect position to join the Qun, being a slave as many other elves were, but he preferred living in the jungle with a bunch of rebels. And most of Thedas' populace was firmly against the Qun; Rivain had the only real population of converts.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rivain got ONE QUnari city left. So most Qunari did leave. Those that didn't were massacered by the Chantry, because they technically were breaking the accord.

[Plaintiff]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

.... What? 

Ugh.

The Chantry killed Qunari converts because they wouldn't return to Andrastism.

You claim their refusal to convert as 'evidence' that the Qun is super-awesome.

But just because people refuse to leave the Qun doesn't mean they actually like it. They could be brainwashed, like cult members, or just afraid of the Qun's superior firepower and other technologies.

Besides which, the Andrastian faith has more members, so if we're using that as the yardstick for best religion, the Chantry wins by a mile.

Your argument is terrible, is what I'm ultimately getting at.

[snackrat]

I imagine they'd need more than paste. Certainly among humans variety is required, psychologically. Even if it met every single nutritional need (impossible) the Qun has little use for suicidally depressed workers with ennui.

They probably do eat very simply and plainly though, simple meat, vegies, and grains - no fancy herbed foods, though a stew isn't out of the question. They definitely bake, one of the devs mentioned that they were very efficient bakers (that's why no cookies - cookies were made from scrap dough) and we have seen Tallis butchering an animal - a pig I think - in the web series.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 08 octobre 2013 - 03:17 .

[billy the squid]

Xilizhra wrote...

You know the part were the Chantry killed anyone who didn't re convert and dumped them in mass graves. Although it was officially denied.

Not anyone, there are still a fair few qunari over there.

Nor have you even noticed that most elves from Tevinter and the peasantry from Thedas joined the Qun after the Qunari invasion, because of the marked improvement in outlook compared to their miserable position in before hand.

Oddly not true. Fenris, for instance, would have been in a perfect position to join the Qun, being a slave as many other elves were, but he preferred living in the jungle with a bunch of rebels. And most of Thedas' populace was firmly against the Qun; Rivain had the only real population of converts.

So if there are still a significant number of Qunari in Rivian, after the population was cleansed by the Third Exalted March, what does that say about the influence of the Qun returning after the ceasefire.

Ah so Fenris is now representative of all peasants, escaped slaves and elves, got ya. Considering Antiva and Rivain were the only two countries the the Qunari held for a significant length of time it's not that suprising. And people generally don't like an invading force despite the benefits it brings due to the fact the inevitable conflict turns the area into a warzone between the current rulers and the Qunari and the peasantry are inevitably conscripted as cannon fodder to be thrown against the Qunari, pretty obvious why they're not liked. 

[Beerfish]

Morocco Mole wrote...

As a potentially reformable one who might not have been as bad as her mother said. I'd have wished for a bit more gray to that story.

lol

She means like Sten, you know the guy that mass murders an innocent family including children becasue he couldn't find his sword and then for the rest of the story that angle was pretty well ignored, that kind of Gray.  Or Anders kind of Gray, or Jack kind of gray, or Wrex kind of Gray, or Zaeed kind of Gray,  or Zevran kind of Gray, Merril kind of Gray, or Thane kind of Gray.  Or a Fenris kind of Gray.

BioWare games are littered with people doing bad things and often those deeds are totally ignored after a short period of time.  I'd say her point is that this person was in fact a victim of her condition and mental illness as much as anything to go along with her evil deeds.

[billy the squid]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You know the part were the Chantry killed anyone who didn't re convert and dumped them in mass graves. Although it was officially denied.

They all fell down a flight of stairs my friend

It's those damn elves leaving the banana skins lying about.

[Xilizhra]

Morocco Mole wrote...

None of those characters are unrepentant serial killing rapists that love to play with their victims though. As far as morality goes, Morinth is pretty far into black morality with no redeeming qualities.

Yes, I was saying that I wished there had been more grayness.