122 réponses à ce sujet

[TKavatar]

I'd actually like Cassandra as a companion, as long as she looses her Mary Sue qualities in Dawn of the Seeker and becomes more grounded. Though I doubt it that'll be happening, with her gate smashing and all.

I wouldn't mind seeing Leliana and Tallis again either, as agents or quest givers.

Not keen on Varric though. We already had him in DA2 as a full companion and got to know about him a lot. It just seems like blatant fanservice to me now, including him in DA:I. Besides I don't want BW to ruin his character like they did with a certain other companion...

[azarhal]

S

TKavatar wrote...

I'd actually like Cassandra as a companion, as long as she looses her Mary Sue qualities in Dawn of the Seeker and becomes more grounded. Though I doubt it that'll be happening, with her gate smashing and all.

All warriors specced properly can smash gates like she did in the demo.

And Cassandra is not a Mary Sue. She's not the idolized avatar of a writer inserted into the story for some wish fulfillment. This is the original meaning of the term and the only one people should use imho.

[Wulfram]

Angrywolves wrote...

Don't know why players would want to kill Tallis.
MOTA was poorly written,that's neither Tallis's fault or Felicia Day's fault.
It's Bioware's fault.

Aside from the basic "agent of the Qunari" thing, she quite massively screwed the PC over, and got away scot free.  As targets of BSN's homicidal urges go, she makes quite a bit of sense.

[TKavatar]

azarhal wrote...

S

TKavatar wrote...

I'd actually like Cassandra as a companion, as long as she looses her Mary Sue qualities in Dawn of the Seeker and becomes more grounded. Though I doubt it that'll be happening, with her gate smashing and all.

All warriors specced properly can smash gates like she did in the demo.

And Cassandra is not a Mary Sue. She's not the idolized avatar of a writer inserted into the story for some wish fulfillment. This is the original meaning of the term and the only one people should use imho.

Fine, let's call her the writer's pet then.

The fact is I don't want her super flashy powers of jumping 50 feet from buildings to kill High Dragons mid-flight in DA:I. 

[Wulfram]

TKavatar wrote...

Fine, let's call her the writer's pet then.

The fact is I don't want her super flashy powers of jumping 50 feet from buildings to kill High Dragons mid-flight in DA:I. 

Someone's got to fill in for Riordan, no?

[Beerfish]

Leliana is part crazy and part spoiled attention seeker and part traitor to the ideals she spouts. She has some redeeming qualities but she has been pretty unaccountable for any of her actions from the very beginning of DAO.

[Heimdall]

Wulfram wrote...

TKavatar wrote...

Fine, let's call her the writer's pet then.

The fact is I don't want her super flashy powers of jumping 50 feet from buildings to kill High Dragons mid-flight in DA:I. 

Someone's got to fill in for Riordan, no?

He compensated by failing and tumbling to his death after :innocent:

[TKavatar]

Wulfram wrote...

TKavatar wrote...

Fine, let's call her the writer's pet then.

The fact is I don't want her super flashy powers of jumping 50 feet from buildings to kill High Dragons mid-flight in DA:I. 

Someone's got to fill in for Riordan, no?

And look where that got him. 

I don't want her to die so soon...yet.

[Wulfram]

Beerfish wrote...

Leliana is part crazy and part spoiled attention seeker and part traitor to the ideals she spouts. She has some redeeming qualities but she has been pretty unaccountable for any of her actions from the very beginning of DAO.

Which ideals she spouts has she betrayed?

[Tootles FTW]

Cassandra in the PAX demo was giving me life, you don't even know. Very much anticipating her arrival.

Leliana...meeeeeh. She's like a bowl of oatmeal to me. In-so-far as what she will say about my Warden, the other companions, and the events during DAO...THAT I am hella (halla) excited about.

Tallis gives me hot & cold flashes. I really dig her in one scene, detest her the next - in that sense, she's at least more interesting than Leliana. I'm curious to see what she's up to in DAI, but I'd also like the chance to actually argue her opinions on the Qun (should my character see the need).

[Beerfish]

Wulfram wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Leliana is part crazy and part spoiled attention seeker and part traitor to the ideals she spouts. She has some redeeming qualities but she has been pretty unaccountable for any of her actions from the very beginning of DAO.

Which ideals she spouts has she betrayed?

Chantry, circles, mages, templars.  Then in the last book betrays those ideals.

[Knight of Dane]

Beerfish wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Leliana is part crazy and part spoiled attention seeker and part traitor to the ideals she spouts. She has some redeeming qualities but she has been pretty unaccountable for any of her actions from the very beginning of DAO.

Which ideals she spouts has she betrayed?

Chantry, circles, mages, templars.  Then in the last book betrays those ideals.

She doesn't follow the chantry, she interprets it. That's already apparent in the first game.

Sorry for being blunt, but I don't think you get her character at all.

[Wulfram]

Well, Leliana in Origins I'd count as naive - I think she thinks of the Chantry as a better organisation than it is, because she mostly judges it on her own experience.

I mean, IIRC she thinks a chantry would offer refuge to a (repentant) blood mage. Sorry Leli, but that's crazy talk.

Modifié par Wulfram, 08 octobre 2013 - 06:41 .

[Beerfish]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Leliana is part crazy and part spoiled attention seeker and part traitor to the ideals she spouts. She has some redeeming qualities but she has been pretty unaccountable for any of her actions from the very beginning of DAO.

Which ideals she spouts has she betrayed?

Chantry, circles, mages, templars.  Then in the last book betrays those ideals.

She doesn't follow the chantry, she interprets it. That's already apparent in the first game.

Sorry for being blunt, but I don't think you get her character at all.

lol. a real Quanri like quote, she doesn't follow it she interprets it.  In other words yet another chracter with ZERO accountablility for their actions that can totally change their actions on a whim and never be challenged for it.  As for 'getting her character' there simply is no 'right' answer in a game  or series of games like this.  My characters have intepreted her as being a bit looney to start with, very much an attentiion seeker as pointed out by the guardian of the sacred ashes and Marjoliane.  One that berates you for doing things she finds unkind in DAO, in the book she murders templars for doing their job to help an apostate, a demon and templar traitor escape.

[Knight of Dane]

In the book she goes against the corrupt, that's fine with me.

[zMataxa]

Beerfish wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

She doesn't follow the chantry, she interprets it. That's already apparent in the first game.

Sorry for being blunt, but I don't think you get her character at all.

lol. a real Quanri like quote, she doesn't follow it she interprets it.  In other words yet another chracter with ZERO accountablility for their actions that can totally change their actions on a whim and never be challenged for it.  As for 'getting her character' there simply is no 'right' answer in a game  or series of games like this.  My characters have intepreted her as being a bit looney to start with, very much an attentiion seeker as pointed out by the guardian of the sacred ashes and Marjoliane.  One that berates you for doing things she finds unkind in DAO, in the book she murders templars for doing their job to help an apostate, a demon and templar traitor escape.

_________________

I found Leliana to be an interesting concept exploration of a person who spans multiple belief systems - mixed with a strong personality.  Yeah, it would have been neat to challenge her more - but that would have gone beyond the scope of the story content (too much additional depth) for too many people i think.
Her heart is in the right place most of the time and she's making sense of the universe just like everyone else.
She's just doing it in a way that's more rare ie. spanning multiple belief systems.
I suspect that's why alot of people call her a "bit looney".
She didn't belong to any one identifiable group.
To me, she was THE MOST fascinating character so far in all the Bioware offerings.

[Beerfish]

zMataxa wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

She doesn't follow the chantry, she interprets it. That's already apparent in the first game.

Sorry for being blunt, but I don't think you get her character at all.

lol. a real Quanri like quote, she doesn't follow it she interprets it.  In other words yet another chracter with ZERO accountablility for their actions that can totally change their actions on a whim and never be challenged for it.  As for 'getting her character' there simply is no 'right' answer in a game  or series of games like this.  My characters have intepreted her as being a bit looney to start with, very much an attentiion seeker as pointed out by the guardian of the sacred ashes and Marjoliane.  One that berates you for doing things she finds unkind in DAO, in the book she murders templars for doing their job to help an apostate, a demon and templar traitor escape.

_________________

I found Leliana to be an interesting concept exploration of a person who spans multiple belief systems - mixed with a strong personality.  Yeah, it would have been neat to challenge her more - but that would have gone beyond the scope of the story content (too much additional depth) for too many people i think.
Her heart is in the right place most of the time and she's making sense of the universe just like everyone else.
She's just doing it in a way that's more rare ie. spanning multiple belief systems.
I suspect that's why alot of people call her a "bit looney".
She didn't belong to any one identifiable group.
To me, she was THE MOST fascinating character so far in all the Bioware offerings.

I don't disagree with this, she is interesting because you never know what she is going to do or where she is going to pop up next.  My problem with her is the lack of accountability when switching from one group or belief system to the next.  My looney comment as more about her talking about the maker talking to her etc.

[PurpleWhisper]

zMataxa wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

Knight of Dane wrote...

She doesn't follow the chantry, she interprets it. That's already apparent in the first game.

Sorry for being blunt, but I don't think you get her character at all.

lol. a real Quanri like quote, she doesn't follow it she interprets it.  In other words yet another chracter with ZERO accountablility for their actions that can totally change their actions on a whim and never be challenged for it.  As for 'getting her character' there simply is no 'right' answer in a game  or series of games like this.  My characters have intepreted her as being a bit looney to start with, very much an attentiion seeker as pointed out by the guardian of the sacred ashes and Marjoliane.  One that berates you for doing things she finds unkind in DAO, in the book she murders templars for doing their job to help an apostate, a demon and templar traitor escape.

_________________

I found Leliana to be an interesting concept exploration of a person who spans multiple belief systems - mixed with a strong personality.  Yeah, it would have been neat to challenge her more - but that would have gone beyond the scope of the story content (too much additional depth) for too many people i think.
Her heart is in the right place most of the time and she's making sense of the universe just like everyone else.
She's just doing it in a way that's more rare ie. spanning multiple belief systems.
I suspect that's why alot of people call her a "bit looney".
She didn't belong to any one identifiable group.
To me, she was THE MOST fascinating character so far in all the Bioware offerings.

I couldn't agree more. The fact that Leliana's beliefs are not static and that they can change or evolve is very interesting to me. I like that she doesn't just blindly follow everynthing the chantry tells people. I think she mentions to the Warden that she clashed with some members of the chantry in Lothering because she had her own ideas about the Maker. She believed she should stay true to what she felt in her heart rather than what other people or the chantry told her. I like that she struggled for a while with what she wanted to be (she couldn't help but enjoy the thrill of the chase, the fights and the intrigue),  and what she felt she should be (devout and holy). I think becoming a Seeker was the perfect path for her. I also like that by the end of Origins there are certain things that Leliana admits she may have lied about a bit. She can mention that although she said the Chantry gave her peace, the truth was that the life bored her. She can also mention (when challenged by the Warden) that perhaps the Maker didn't speak to her after all. To me thats so wondefully human. We've all at some point been able to look back on moment in our life and admit that maybe in that past moment we had been kidding ourselves or lying a little. Its was makes a character more real. We are all slightly flawed at time and can sometimes even contradict ourselves. We change as we grow and experiance different things. Leli seems to be a character that does that.

A few people mentioned they are worried about Leliana's role as a Seeker if their romanced Warden was a Mage or Elf. Honestly, i don't think it would be an issue. Leliana is as likely to save an innocent mage or honorable templar as kill a corrupt blood mage or templar in the service of the Black Divine. In the last book she was helping the Divine herself to play 'The Game' and try to make things better for mages. I don't think Leliana will ever be chained to one particular belief system or faction. She does what she believes in her heart to be right and as a result has connections to a wide variety of characters in Thedas.

[Angrywolves]

A few people seem to hate Leliana.
For those that do, I suspect you'll be able to kill her at some point in the game.
If that's so I hope that satisfies you.
The Tallis " she screwed over hawke "was due to bad writing like I said.

[zMataxa]

Beerfish wrote...
I don't disagree with this, she is interesting because you never know what she is going to do or where she is going to pop up next.  My problem with her is the lack of accountability when switching from one group or belief system to the next.  My looney comment as more about her talking about the maker talking to her etc.

__________
Awesome clarification.  Gratitude.
I can sure see how many would find that difficult to experience so many juxtapositions (contradictions some could argue).  And how that would lead to the conclusion that she's not reliably accountable.
Her existential meandering from spiritual/visionary(delusional?)/to reality and then full circle yet again and again was also quite an experience.
Yeah, I sure can see how many people would have strong reactions to her.

I guess that's why it's so awesome with Bioware's multiparty system and new characters from game to game.
One person finds Leliana intriguing, and the other moves on to another NPC happy to abandon her or worse.

Modifié par zMataxa, 09 octobre 2013 - 03:41 .

[zMataxa]

PurpleWhisper wrote...

A few people mentioned they are worried about Leliana's role as a Seeker if their romanced Warden was a Mage or Elf. Honestly, i don't think it would be an issue. Leliana is as likely to save an innocent mage or honorable templar as kill a corrupt blood mage or templar in the service of the Black Divine. In the last book she was helping the Divine herself to play 'The Game' and try to make things better for mages. I don't think Leliana will ever be chained to one particular belief system or faction. She does what she believes in her heart to be right and as a result has connections to a wide variety of characters in Thedas.

_____________

Cool that you enjoyed her too. 
I agree she wouldn't be chained to one belief system - even as she got older.
That said, I hope the writers don't turn her suddenly into a chantry fanatic.
That would be one serious mouth-puckering SOUR Jujube.

[leaguer of one]

Angrywolves wrote...


I think it's unfair to say Cassandra is light and Leliana is darkness.

It's about their Job, not persona. Remember Lilliana is a rogue that works in the shadow.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:35 .

[sky_captain]

Angrywolves wrote...

A few people seem to hate Leliana.
For those that do, I suspect you'll be able to kill her at some point in the game.
If that's so I hope that satisfies you.
The Tallis " she screwed over hawke "was due to bad writing like I said.

And like I said when all that defines a character is bad writing and poor event scripting you have a bad character. 

[Wulfram]

Angrywolves wrote...

The Tallis " she screwed over hawke "was due to bad writing like I said.

Nah, the screwing over hawke was just "writing".  It was just Hawke's lack of ability to respond appropriately which was "bad writing."

[leaguer of one]

Wulfram wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

The Tallis " she screwed over hawke "was due to bad writing like I said.

Nah, the screwing over hawke was just "writing".  It was just Hawke's lack of ability to respond appropriately which was "bad writing."

That just means the fault was not with Talis character but the writing of the end of the dlc.