leaguer of one wrote...
That just means the fault was not with Talis character but the writing of the end of the dlc.
Not touching on why as that's been answered, but I'd just like to say that I not necessarily wanted to option to kill her.Angrywolves wrote...
Don't know why players would want to kill Tallis.
Angrywolves wrote...
Cassandra won't be like Meredith.
Most rational players wouldn't want that.
Don't know why players would want to kill Tallis.
MOTA was poorly written,that's neither Tallis's fault or Felicia Day's fault.
It's Bioware's fault.
Magdalena11 wrote...
Sorry, not with you. The character of Tallis was a sop to a voice actor. She had her own design team and called the shots on how she was portrayed. The Dragon Age team seems set on making Leliana a permanent feature despite numerous efforts to make that otherwise. I'll probably be stuck with both but I don't have to like it and if I see either of them again it will be too soon.
Morrigan actually avoided getting outright killed. With her only potential death being a clear "you didn't see the body" setup. We're all familiar with how that works.Gwydden wrote...
It amuses me how people complain about Leliana's plot armor when exactly the same thing goes for Morrigan. The fact is, some characters are necessary for future plots. If you kill anyone you fancy future games would be a total mess.
I'm pretty sure Leliana's role is unofficial, so there's no formal rank between them; if Cassandra asks Leliana "What now?" then it's probably more to get her input than to ask for orders. That's my take anyway. As to which one is officially leading whatever operation they're on I'd have to assume it's Cassandra, simply because she's the one with a proper rank, but I imagine the Divine's orders would've been that they work with one another, not that one work for the other.PurpleWhisper wrote...
And are we supposed to know yet who outranks who in regards to Leliana and Cassandra? One has been described as the Left Hand of the Divine and the other as the Right Hand of the Divine. Both seem strong in their own right, though it seems Cassandra is asking Leliana what their next step is at the end. So perhaps Leliana is in charge? If Cassandra is going to be a party member in DA:I, then I imagine that Leliana won't be as having two incredibly strong Seeker-types might be a bit much. I really hope to see Leliana with a large NPC role like Morrigan's.
My impression was that they'd met before and Tallis knew who Leliana was, but Leliana possibly didn't know Tallis was Qunari, or at least didn't know her role.PurpleWhisper wrote...
Second; what was the deal with Tallis and Leliana in Mark Of The Assasin? I know the Qun and the Chantry are at odds, but I'm insanely curious to know how exactly these two cross paths. As sweet and dappy as our shoe-obssessed bard-turned-seeker might be, she is also pretty deadly. I find it hard to imagine how Tallis managed to cross her and survive? Do you think we might learn more on this in the next game? Or perhaps a DLC?
Morrigan's "death" couldn't have been more obviously impermanent; falling back into a magic portal? Come on, who really thought that was the last we'd see of her? But both bother me. If a character really has to come back then don't let us succeed in killing them and then bring them back, have them escape or something; better that than pulling an "A-ha!" twist later on which just feels like a "Your decisions don't matter!".Gwydden wrote...
It amuses me how people complain about Leliana's plot armor when exactly the same thing goes for Morrigan. The fact is, some characters are necessary for future plots. If you kill anyone you fancy future games would be a total mess.
Modifié par nerdage, 09 octobre 2013 - 03:32 .
SergeantSnookie wrote...
Gwydden wrote...
SergeantSnookie wrote...
Leliana is my absolute favourite character; I still really dislike where her story is going, but I suspect she'll be important.
May I ask why?
Many reasons; one being, didn't I just go through all that character development about her leaving that life of spying, assassinating etc. behind her? Now she's doing it again, just for someone else. And if I had hardened her, I'm not entirely sure what she's doing with the Chantry in the first place. 'She owes Justinia a debt' can only go so far.
One side of me was also a little bummed that that nice happy ending in Awakening was more or less scrapped. Now I'm just wondering what the heck happened.
nerdage wrote...
Morrigan's "death" couldn't have been more obviously impermanent; falling back into a magic portal? Come on, who really thought that was the last we'd see of her? But both bother me. If a character really has to come back then don't let us succeed in killing them and then bring them back, have them escape or something; better that than pulling an "A-ha!" twist later on which just feels like a "Your decisions don't matter!".
In Exile wrote...
Leliana the bard is quite at odds - morally speaking - with Leliana the naive Chantry sister. She admits to deception and murder for what amounts to personal gain (though part of it was her relationship with Marjolane).
Modifié par Wulfram, 09 octobre 2013 - 04:07 .
That's the bad thing about "you didn't see the body" setups it almost always mean they survived. That's why we've always known(I'm assuming this on behalf of others) that she wasn't really dead.Taleroth wrote...
Morrigan actually avoided getting outright killed. With her only potential death being a clear "you didn't see the body" setup. We're all familiar with how that works.Gwydden wrote...
It amuses me how people complain about Leliana's plot armor when exactly the same thing goes for Morrigan. The fact is, some characters are necessary for future plots. If you kill anyone you fancy future games would be a total mess.
If it had been any different, we'd approach it the same way we approach the OGB. Saying that if the player chose one way, the game should respect that.
I never really read into it that she was playing the warden (what reason would she have?) but that she could ahve done so if she needed to.In Exile wrote...
SergeantSnookie wrote...
Gwydden wrote...
SergeantSnookie wrote...
Leliana is my absolute favourite character; I still really dislike where her story is going, but I suspect she'll be important.
May I ask why?
Many reasons; one being, didn't I just go through all that character development about her leaving that life of spying, assassinating etc. behind her? Now she's doing it again, just for someone else. And if I had hardened her, I'm not entirely sure what she's doing with the Chantry in the first place. 'She owes Justinia a debt' can only go so far.
One side of me was also a little bummed that that nice happy ending in Awakening was more or less scrapped. Now I'm just wondering what the heck happened.
To me it always seemed like Leliana was playing you in DA:O to start. I totally think Bioware expanded her role in the sequel and wanted her romantic, somewhat naive personality to represent (a part of) who she was, but the way she talked about being able to be anything doe anyone and manipulating their feelings with love and affection quite easily always seemed to cast a shadow to me.
Tallis, Leliana and Cassandra?
Guest_john_sheparrd_*
Except it unfolded exactly as you'd expect, but then suddenly it didn't. If I attack the character and they escape then that's an instance of things not unfolding as I expect, and I'd be perfectly happy with that. If I appear to kill someone, the same way I've successfully killed countless people before, but they still come back later on because "they're still important to the story" it's always going to feel like my decision has simply been overruled, especially if it happens off-screen.Gwydden wrote...
nerdage wrote...
Morrigan's "death" couldn't have been more obviously impermanent; falling back into a magic portal? Come on, who really thought that was the last we'd see of her? But both bother me. If a character really has to come back then don't let us succeed in killing them and then bring them back, have them escape or something; better that than pulling an "A-ha!" twist later on which just feels like a "Your decisions don't matter!".
Why? There are always people saying the Warden accomplishes anything he sets out to do. Well, he doesn't. He fails to kill either of them if he tries to do it. How does that invalidate your choice? It would be pretty lame if every decission you made had the exact consequece you wanted, and it would only add to the marysueness of the PC.
You took a particular path. That it didn't unfold how you expected is irrelevant. We don't even know what may come out of trying to kill Morrigan. Maybe that'll pissed her off and make her more antagonistic in DAI. Who knows? As long as they don't go Blizzard's way, reviving every character that got killed in past games, I'm happy.
nerdage wrote...
Except it unfolded exactly as you'd expect, but then suddenly it didn't. If I attack the character and they escape then that's an instance of things not unfolding as I expect, and I'd be perfectly happy with that. If I appear to kill someone, the same way I've successfully killed countless people before, but they still come back later on because "they're still important to the story" it's always going to feel like my decision has simply been overruled, especially if it happens off-screen.
For the record I've never killed either, but the fact that it happens worries me, because when I do eventually decide to kill someone like that the scene will be all dramatic and powerful, and I'll sing the game's praises for the agency I felt in doing it, but then it'll be undone because the story wants that character back and all that excitement turns to skepticism. I like Leliana, but I understand why her reappearing would annoy people, and I hope it's explained in-game at some point and then never happens again.
In the absence of a "make sure they're dead" button I have to be able to trust that the tools I'm given actually work when I see them succeed, otherwise choices start feeling more and more illusionary. But, as with anything with the word "feeling" in, YMMV, and this has been discussed since forever without agreement anyway.
In Exile wrote...
To me it always seemed like Leliana was playing you in DA:O to start. I totally think Bioware expanded her role in the sequel and wanted her romantic, somewhat naive personality to represent (a part of) who she was, but the way she talked about being able to be anything doe anyone and manipulating their feelings with love and affection quite easily always seemed to cast a shadow to me.
Leliana the bard is quite at odds - morally speaking - with Leliana the naive Chantry sister. She admits to deception and murder for what amounts to personal gain (though part of it was her relationship with Marjolane).
Modifié par SergeantSnookie, 09 octobre 2013 - 07:37 .
Modifié par Wulfram, 09 octobre 2013 - 08:05 .
Wulfram wrote...
The Warden was promptly shown to be alive, and was never shown dead. Leliana stayed safely dead, confirmed as such by the codex, for the whole game, and for most of the next game too.
That's not comparable.
My thoughts exactly. Even if she were, to what end?SergeantSnookie wrote...
Eh. If she was just there to toy with the Warden, then why would she leave if she disagrees with the Warden too much? Isn't that kind of counter productive in a spy/seductress? Wouldn't she try and match her personality to whatever Warden you're playing? That is, if there's any reason to spy on the Warden in the first place. Which, there really isn't.In Exile wrote...
To me it always seemed like Leliana was playing you in DA:O to start. I totally think Bioware expanded her role in the sequel and wanted her romantic, somewhat naive personality to represent (a part of) who she was, but the way she talked about being able to be anything doe anyone and manipulating their feelings with love and affection quite easily always seemed to cast a shadow to me.
Leliana the bard is quite at odds - morally speaking - with Leliana the naive Chantry sister. She admits to deception and murder for what amounts to personal gain (though part of it was her relationship with Marjolane).
It would also seem a little pointless that she brings up her relationship with a romanced Warden at all in DA2 if it was all a scam.
Angrywolves wrote...
Some of the posters here act Like Tallis was a real person who decide to play hawke and do the things she did and could have done otherwise .
lol.
Tallis was written by someone on Gaiders team to do that and hawke was written to be accomodating.
Bad writing period.
Modifié par Wulfram, 09 octobre 2013 - 10:00 .
Angrywolves wrote...
Some of the posters here act Like Tallis was a real person who decide to play hawke and do the things she did and could have done otherwise .
lol.
Tallis was written by someone on Gaiders team to do that and hawke was written to be accomodating.
Bad writing period.
Felicia Day didn't write the DLC, but it's her character.Gwydden wrote...
Angrywolves wrote...
Some of the posters here act Like Tallis was a real person who decide to play hawke and do the things she did and could have done otherwise .
lol.
Tallis was written by someone on Gaiders team to do that and hawke was written to be accomodating.
Bad writing period.
I may be wrong, but I have read several times that Tallis was largely subject to Felicia Day's specifications.
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