117 réponses à ce sujet

[Vapaa]

Whathisname mercenary-person in charge of the Purgatory, while his plan was of average suicidity (that's not really a word, is it ?), he actually had the chance to back up before the disaster, but noooo, he kept at it...and the final nail in its coffin is not wainting that Shepard was locked in a cell to do his Villain monologue™

[Han Shot First]

Geoff Pinkerton wrote...

Which villain had the worst plan?
Casey Hudson.

'That was a joke.'

[Arcian]

Geoff Pinkerton wrote...

Which villain had the worst plan?
Casey Hudson.

'That was a joke.'

No it wasn't. Stop lying.

[wizardryforever]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Get off your high horse, there isn't anything overty complex about the ending that the average person cant understand.

If you think that the ending was "I made synthetics to kill you to prevent you from getting killed by synthetics" (i.e. what the stupid meme says) then, I'm sorry to say, the ending went over your head or you are intentionally committing details you know are crucial to the argument.

1) Did the catalyst create synthetics to kill its creators then turn them into synthetics?

Reguardless of its understanding of life, the acsension of life and execution of its plan. Did that not happen?

So yes, the meme is a "VERY" simplified version of what happened. As for the further in depth meaning for the catalyst actions, I believe what the catalyst believed  it was doing was the right course of action. There was more to the Catalyst than what the meme suggest. But over all the meme still has some (as an overly simplified version) validity to it.


Also, sorry to the OP for any disruption this has caused to your thread..........

Only it doesn't, not really.  The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life.  The term Reaper is very apt for a number of reasons, as is the harvest that they perform.  It's like a farmer.  Do you consider the harvest of produce and livestock to be "killing?" (nevermind, I don't want to skew into another tangent with that argument)

It's more like someone who does controlled burns of forests.  Sure the undergrowth dies, but the potential for future growth remains, and the underpinnings of forest life remain in place.  In this analogy, advanced organic life is the undergrowth, primitive organic life is the trees.  It goes even further than that though, because the Reapers aren't just destroying everything, even for a discernable reason.  They collect and preserve the "essence" of the harvested species in order to essentially immortalize them.

So really the meme is a strawman, and an oversimplification at that.

[Eterna]

Mangalores wrote...

Just because BW put a wall of text and voodoo bs between their resolution and this simple conclusion doesn't change that that's essentially how they explain the whole Reaper plot away. 

No it isn't. 

[KwangtungTiger]

wizardryforever wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Get off your high horse, there isn't anything overty complex about the ending that the average person cant understand.

If you think that the ending was "I made synthetics to kill you to prevent you from getting killed by synthetics" (i.e. what the stupid meme says) then, I'm sorry to say, the ending went over your head or you are intentionally committing details you know are crucial to the argument.

1) Did the catalyst create synthetics to kill its creators then turn them into synthetics?

Reguardless of its understanding of life, the acsension of life and execution of its plan. Did that not happen?

So yes, the meme is a "VERY" simplified version of what happened. As for the further in depth meaning for the catalyst actions, I believe what the catalyst believed  it was doing was the right course of action. There was more to the Catalyst than what the meme suggest. But over all the meme still has some (as an overly simplified version) validity to it.


Also, sorry to the OP for any disruption this has caused to your thread..........

Only it doesn't, not really.  The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life.  The term Reaper is very apt for a number of reasons, as is the harvest that they perform.  It's like a farmer.  Do you consider the harvest of produce and livestock to be "killing?" (nevermind, I don't want to skew into another tangent with that argument)

It's more like someone who does controlled burns of forests.  Sure the undergrowth dies, but the potential for future growth remains, and the underpinnings of forest life remain in place.  In this analogy, advanced organic life is the undergrowth, primitive organic life is the trees.  It goes even further than that though, because the Reapers aren't just destroying everything, even for a discernable reason.  They collect and preserve the "essence" of the harvested species in order to essentially immortalize them.

So really the meme is a strawman, and an oversimplification at that.

OK..........How do they go about "Harvesting" and "Preserving" them?
























Wait for it.......







































Its coming............








































THEY HAVE TO KILL THEM FIRST!



So the meme in its "Simplified" form is correct. That is all that I'm saying here. I dont personally agree with to the full extent, only in its "Simplified" form.

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 11 octobre 2013 - 08:24 .

[The Night Mammoth]

wizardryforever wrote...

Only it doesn't, not really.  The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life.  The term Reaper is very apt for a number of reasons, as is the harvest that they perform.  It's like a farmer.  Do you consider the harvest of produce and livestock to be "killing?" (nevermind, I don't want to skew into another tangent with that argument)

It's more like someone who does controlled burns of forests.  Sure the undergrowth dies, but the potential for future growth remains, and the underpinnings of forest life remain in place.  In this analogy, advanced organic life is the undergrowth, primitive organic life is the trees.  It goes even further than that though, because the Reapers aren't just destroying everything, even for a discernable reason.  They collect and preserve the "essence" of the harvested species in order to essentially immortalize them.

So really the meme is a strawman, and an oversimplification at that.

It's all well and good that the Catalyst and Reapers don't just kill for the sake of it, but the reality is completely irrelevant to anything.

They preserve some sort of genetic library of each species, but they don't do anything with it, they just keep all the data stored away inside themselves and keep the cycle going. It's like burning all the copies of a book except for a single one, and never letting anyone read it. It doesn't matter that this last copy exists. The act of preservation is meaningless. 

On top of that, Reapers don't care about the new life that advances in the wake of their genocide. A forester might burn trees away but he's doing because there's a tangible, useful result of his destructive act. Both him and the environment benefit. Does the next cycle benefit from the destruction of the previous one? No, it doesn't. 

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 11 octobre 2013 - 09:03 .

[DirtySHISN0]

Shifty looking cow.

Clearly stealing coin to afford a lawyer. Said lawyer would then begin legal pursuit to prevent bouncing tanks from trashing cows planet with their gargantuan wheels and carefree attitude towards gravity.

Modifié par DirtySHISN0, 11 octobre 2013 - 08:37 .

[Seboist]

Catalyst "preserves" the genetic library in a completely dumb way by risking them in battle where they could be potentially destroyed like derelict reaper or any of the ones that get taken out in 3 pre-ending.

Having the Reapers be completely synthetic(like they were in ME1) and having the genetic library outside of the galaxy in dark space would make too much sense I imagine.

[Mr.House]

Starbrat, by far. Idiotic plan that makes no sense at all and in fact contradicts it self. My fav part is this this.
Starbrat: We preserve...
*A Reaper dreadnaught is destroyed in the background*

Uh huh.

[bleetman]

wizardryforever wrote...
The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life

Yes, preserve.

Except for all the races he just has killed because he doesn't like their genetics enough. Which, if Harbingers ranting in ME2 is anything to go by, includes basically every race this cycle.

[Mr.House]

bleetman wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life

Yes, preserve.

Except for all the races he just has killed because he doesn't like their genetics enough. Which, if Harbingers ranting in ME2 is anything to go by, includes basically every race this cycle.

Also said ships are used in fights, which then get destroyed.

[DatRandomGuy1]

Funny how no-one mentions Balak, he coulda sabotaged the asteroid so it couldn't be disabled...

But personally, I have to go with the bartender from Omega in ME2. He tries to poison Shepard and as soon as he see's him, instead of gunning him down "have a second drink"

[KaiserShep]

wizardryforever wrote...

Only it doesn't, not really.  The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life.  The term Reaper is very apt for a number of reasons, as is the harvest that they perform.  It's like a farmer.  Do you consider the harvest of produce and livestock to be "killing?" (nevermind, I don't want to skew into another tangent with that argument)

It's more like someone who does controlled burns of forests.  Sure the undergrowth dies, but the potential for future growth remains, and the underpinnings of forest life remain in place.  In this analogy, advanced organic life is the undergrowth, primitive organic life is the trees.  It goes even further than that though, because the Reapers aren't just destroying everything, even for a discernable reason.  They collect and preserve the "essence" of the harvested species in order to essentially immortalize them.

So really the meme is a strawman, and an oversimplification at that.

Its motives don't really matter, because in the end, the effect is still the same. There's no meaningful difference between being "preserved" and being killed, because if you're melted into a homogenized goop, you are as dead as dead can be, and if you do it to an entire species, that species is now extinct. Intentions are meaningless when your actions contradict them. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 11 octobre 2013 - 10:38 .

[Eterna]

bleetman wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life

Yes, preserve.

Except for all the races he just has killed because he doesn't like their genetics enough. Which, if Harbingers ranting in ME2 is anything to go by, includes basically every race this cycle.

This isn't correct. The races who genetics are considered worthy become capital ships, those who are unworthy become Destroyers. 

Humans would be made into a capital ship, Asari, Turians etc would be made into Destroyers. 

[Mr.House]

Eterna5 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life

Yes, preserve.

Except for all the races he just has killed because he doesn't like their genetics enough. Which, if Harbingers ranting in ME2 is anything to go by, includes basically every race this cycle.

This isn't correct. The races who genetics are considered worthy become capital ships, those who are unworthy become Destroyers. 

Humans would be made into a capital ship, Asari, Turians etc would be made into Destroyers. 

How arre they preserved? What makes them them is gone. They are now all giant ships who harvest and kill. That's not being preserved, and what about the races that are outright wiped out by the Reapers, turned into slaves or worse?

[KaiserShep]

The krogan were definitely not going to be harvested. The reapers intended to poison Tuchanka to kill them off, while using what they catch to mutilate, combine with turian corpses and turn into shock troops. They weren't harvesting the rachni either, since they only enslaved the queen and made her breed an army to facilitate their ground war. 

Modifié par KaiserShep, 11 octobre 2013 - 10:47 .

[bleetman]

Eterna5 wrote...

This isn't correct. The races who genetics are considered worthy become capital ships, those who are unworthy become Destroyers. 

Humans would be made into a capital ship, Asari, Turians etc would be made into Destroyers. 

The Protheans say hello.

[KaiserShep]

That's kind of a tricky one, because I can't recall there being any real reason for EDI to make that assumption. I mean, sure the reapers employ Prothean husks, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other Protheans weren't used to create a reaper.

[bleetman]

KaiserShep wrote...

That's kind of a tricky one, because I can't recall there being any real reason for EDI to make that assumption. I mean, sure the reapers employ Prothean husks, but that doesn't necessarily mean that other Protheans weren't used to create a reaper.

Well, sure, we could assume the existence of a prothean reaper we literally never see or hear a single thing about even existing.

Or, we could assume what we're shown and told - that they were rejected and used as cybernetic cloned husk slave solders - is the case, and the atrociously written ending is just being an inconsistent mess that clashes with its own fiction again.

Whichever you pick is up to you.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 octobre 2013 - 11:05 .

[Karlone123]

A plan is only terrible if it fails.

[Eterna]

Mr.House wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

bleetman wrote...

wizardryforever wrote...
The motive of the Catalyst is not to kill the organics, it is to harvest and preserve them before they irreparably destroy the chance for all future organic life

Yes, preserve.

Except for all the races he just has killed because he doesn't like their genetics enough. Which, if Harbingers ranting in ME2 is anything to go by, includes basically every race this cycle.

This isn't correct. The races who genetics are considered worthy become capital ships, those who are unworthy become Destroyers. 

Humans would be made into a capital ship, Asari, Turians etc would be made into Destroyers. 

How arre they preserved? What makes them them is gone. They are now all giant ships who harvest and kill. That's not being preserved, and what about the races that are outright wiped out by the Reapers, turned into slaves or worse?

Their genetic identity is preserved. Synthesis implies that their cultures persist via their genetics but that is bull****. 

As far as I'm aware no race has been eradicated by the Reapers without being used or preserved in some way. If you have examples of some who are I'd like to see them. 

[Eterna]

bleetman wrote...

Eterna5 wrote...

This isn't correct. The races who genetics are considered worthy become capital ships, those who are unworthy become Destroyers. 

Humans would be made into a capital ship, Asari, Turians etc would be made into Destroyers. 

The Protheans say hello.

How do you know that a Reaper wasn't made from the Protheans? Also they did preserve them via Collectors. 

[Eterna]

KaiserShep wrote...

The krogan were definitely not going to be harvested. The reapers intended to poison Tuchanka to kill them off, while using what they catch to mutilate, combine with turian corpses and turn into shock troops. They weren't harvesting the rachni either, since they only enslaved the queen and made her breed an army to facilitate their ground war. 

They were making a Human Reaper but still used Husks as ground troops. You don't need an entire races population to make a Reaper. 

[KaiserShep]

Eterna5 wrote...
How do you know that a Reaper wasn't made from the Protheans? Also they did preserve them via Collectors. 

It's not really preservation when they're so extensively modified. They were basically mutated into giant, bipedal flying insects that are heavily augmented.