245 réponses à ce sujet

[Erez Kristal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

And a fringe threat? They were building a Reaper

The Reapers arrived in baterian space before Shepard destroyed the Collectors and there is no way they could have completed the remaining 90% of the work in 6 months (given that they had managed just 10% in the two years Shepard had been dead for).

Sorry, but whilst stupid bridging DLC is stupid it is nevertheless canon.

The dlc in itself is not the problem.. the problem is how mass effect 3 interpreted that dlc...

[Erez Kristal]

Kataphrut94 wrote...

Since quote pyramids are a pain in the ass, I'll just say it plainly: Overlord was not a success. If it had been, I wouldn't have had to fight my way through four different labs filled with hostile geth and dead Cerberus scientists just to clean up the damn mess. That is a failure right there. What's entertaining is that Shepard would later end up successfully communicating with and influencing the geth consensus barely a year later, when the geth simply let him in and give him a cyber-interface that isn't functionally a crucifix. The end does not justify the means because David's suffering was for nothing.

Similarly, since no one can make up their mind about what was actually going on with Akuze, give me any motivation you want and I can tell you a better way of achieving it than luring unsuspecting human soldiers into a thresher maw nest. For Christ's sake, since when does a human-supremacy group kill off servicemen of their own race? The least they could do was send some turians in there or something.

As for Project Lazarus, if you tell me that it was a success purely on the basis of Commander Shepard coming back to life, then the whole thing was a joke to begin with. Creating a cure for death should not have been in the service of bringing back Shepard, it should be the other way around. I've said this many times, but I refuse to buy Wilson's betrayal as being money woes, because in any sane organisation, they would have sold that technology and made squillions. Instead, they were willing to leave it behind on an exploding space station full of their own hostile mechs, because apparently it was just an afterthought.

What reason would anyone have to work with Cerberus other than mindless principle? Because principle is about all they had going for them, and it didn't mean anything when the Reapers finally did show up and everybody except Cerberus was doing something about it.

you are constantly focusing on the cost instead of the achievements.
and thats ok. but it doesnt look like you grasp what" the end justify the means" means :-)
you are constantly ignoring the achievements. you should start looking at what they managed to discover in every one of these expirments first before you decide there was no benefit to them.

About wilson - just because that project would have been profitable doesnt mean wilson would have seen any of that profit. it is likely that the shadow broker offered him a much sweeter deal.
About questioning wilson motives- many people who become teachers, doctors, soldeirs, policemen and firemen do it for their paygrade.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...
snip

My shepard follows my rules when i was in the army. always keep my gear close unless i was on shore leave and not in times of war.
I assume shepard was near his equipment. assumping my shepard was going to have a good use of his time he would visit shaira or have a cop of cofee in the presiudum. maybe even knock on the council doors. 
We can speculate that with shepard so close he would stop saren before, saren arrival to the citadel tower. 
Like i said speculation.

With the tower secured. forces will reinforce the ctiadel and destroy soveiregn and the geth fleets quickly.
thats just a speculation.

If you are going to follow the line of. that wouldnt have likely happen.

Shepard almost missed using the conduit. what if he did miss it? then everything would be lost. 

Speculations for everyone.

The only way to judge the council decisions is by not looking on the consquences and instead look on the potential consquences.


If you want to make a case for shepard decision to steal the normandy you better use the evidence shepard had at hand when he/she stole it

Not much use, those rules of yours, since with the Normandy locked down, the majority of your gear wouldn't be on your person. What you could take would be scaned and monitored -- all weapons have a V.I. system in them, you know. They'd know where you are at all times via your weapons. That's why Saren tossed his equipment for geth tech, upgrades and implants. Not to mention C-SEC would label you a fugitive and either terminate you or take you in.
Also, No, we explisitly can't. Being on the "relieved of duty" list, Shepard wouldn't be allowed within 100 feet of anything or anyone important. No more Spectre or Alliance clearance, meaning no more access to restricted information or locations. That's the whole reason Anderson had to do it for you, remember?
In other words -- no more free or unmonitored access to any part of the station. The areas you can go to, you'd likely be under 24/7 tracking and monitoring. And once again, that goes back to @KaiserShep's previous point that, if you don't go to Ilos, you won't get Vigil's data-file, and you can't stop Sovergein from activating the Citadel Relay without it.
If you stay grounded, you never get Vigil's data-file, and thus, will be unable to stop Sovergein from getting control of the station. Hell, if you are on the Presidium, then you wouldn't even know where or what the Conduit is, and would likely die in the blitz like all the others on that part of the station.
Sorry, but no -- not "speculation." No matter what you say here, it doesn't change the facts -- if you don't get off the station and get to Ilos, you lose.

You can't secure the tower because you wound't even know to secure the tower, because you wouldn't even know that's where the master control for the Citadel is located. Without following in Saren's wake, you'd never know where to go. Hell, even then, the area would be swarmed with geth and you'd never get to Saren in time. And no - as Sovergein proved, it would have outlasted the Citadel fleets long before they could defeat Sovergein. Hell, without Vigil's data-file, you'd never even be able to re-open the Citadel arms so that the fleet could attack Sovergein in the first place.

You aren't following the line -- you're making speculations that are based off things that we already know couldn't have happened.

Shepard wouldn't even have the chance if not for following Saren to Ilos to begin with. Following Saren was how Shepard found and used it himself/herself.

You aren't making "speculations" here. So far, everything you've said goes against what we know for a definate fact -- we'd be dead if Shepard never left for Ilos.

The only potential consiquences the Council's choices had were to screw us over. Shepard proved over and over and over that his/her word was trustworthy. After everything Shepard did, they still didn't believe the importantce of the Conduit. It was simple arrogance -- that's all there is to it.

If you want to try and defend their actions, you need to do the same -- you'd better look at the evidence they had on hand when they made their decision, and do so before telling off others for it. All the Council had was evidence that everything Shepard said was correct, and that the Conduit was important to Saren. In spite of all that, they mistrusted Shepard -- hell, they even admit later on that they were wrong. In ME3 during the Citadel coup, Councilor Tevos finally acknowledges that every single time they doubted Shepard, it screwed them over. I don't see what other proof you need.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 17 octobre 2013 - 05:40 .

[KaiserShep]

erezike wrote...
My shepard follows my rules when i was in the army. always keep my gear close unless i was on shore leave and not in times of war.
I assume shepard was near his equipment. assumping my shepard was going to have a good use of his time he would visit shaira or have a cop of cofee in the presiudum. maybe even knock on the council doors. 
We can speculate that with shepard so close he would stop saren before, saren arrival to the citadel tower. 
Like i said speculation.

....

The scenario I outlined is specifically one in which Saren is stopped before reaching the tower.

With the tower secured. forces will reinforce the ctiadel and destroy soveiregn and the geth fleets quickly.
thats just a speculation.

As I stated, when Saren is killed in this scenario, we're still in the dark. We don't know he was going to assume control of the council chambers, because we didn't know that he needed to access those controls in the first place. It would be impossible to determine what it was he was trying to do, unless he monologued the heck out of us detailing his plan before he died. As for the geth and Sovereign, the fleets would not defeat them, because they are clearly outmatched. The one and only reason why Sovereign goes down is because it was stunned by Shepard when he/she killed remote-controlled Saren.

Shepard almost missed using the conduit. what if he did miss it? then everything would be lost. 

Speculations for everyone.

Sure, just like everything would be lost if Shepard didn't go to Ilos in the first place, and securing the tower and killing Saren without first possessing the file necessary to assume control over the Citadel systems would all be rendered irrelevant by Sovereign.

The only way to judge the council decisions is by not looking on the consquences and instead look on the potential consquences.

This doesn't really have anything to do with the council decision itself. The point is that if the council and Udina had their way completely, they and everyone else would most certainly be dead, for the reasons I listed.

If you want to make a case for shepard decision to steal the normandy you better use the evidence shepard had at hand when he/she stole it

The decision to steal the Normandy was not Shepard's; it was Anderson's. Shepard even mentions that this could incur serious penalties for him, and even suggests that the crew may disapprove and not follow his/her lead. Shepard goes along with it anyway, however, because the fate of the galaxy matters an order of magnitude more than any rules and regulations.

All of the events that unfolded from the Eden Prime mission onward is all the case Shepard needs to steal the Normandy after an obtuse set of bureaucrats try to hamstring efforts to stop the thing that is trying to kill everyone.

I just want to note that it's also kind of frustrating listening to the idiot council criticize Shepard over the destruction of the facility on Virmire, which was basically the handywork of THEIR spies.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:03 .

[Erez Kristal]

If saren is killed before arriving to the citadel control - we will be in the dark, but his plan will also fail.
Soveriegn wouldnt be able to enter the citadel( or lock it after entry) the relays wouldnt be close which would allow faster reinforcemetn to the citadel itself.

The citadel fleets were outmatch by the geth and soveriegn but they wouldnt have been with proper: alliance, turian, asari or salarian reinforcement. the alliance arrived first because they were most alert. it is safe to assume that some time after other alien fleets would have started(or started) to pour through.

Anderson Push for that decision. it was shepard final decision to steal the normandy. anderson simply made it possibile.

Spectres are above the ranks of the stg(council spies) thus the responsibility fell on shepard.

Shepard didnt have much hard evidence as far as the council was concern.
shepard had visions for proof. and a recording of speaking a vi on virmire(soveriegn) it wasnt enough for the council to risk a costly war with the terminus systems.

They made a call based on the evidence they had. the scenario could have easily been resulted in different consquences.

You have to judge the council decision based on the information they had on hand.

If your president will tell you he want to go war against the rest of the worlds because he saw 'visions' you can bet it. that he will be declared nuts and removed from office.

[Erez Kristal]

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

no where in the game was shepard declared stripped of his spectre status. the only thing that happened was the normandy being grounded.

as evidence - shepard runs around with his full gear on after the normandy is grounded. you  can then visit chora den, the flux, shaira, the relay on the citadel and even the council chambers!   if admiral kaokue or that fella who lost his brother can hang around the council chambers looking for help, and if chroban can scan the keepers for who know how long. then you bet your ass shepard can camp there.

as for knowing where to go. you ussually protect the most important asset you know(engines, commandcenters.) the council tower is a command center so it make sense for shepard to head there first. the second part when defending is to follow the gunfire. shepard doesnt need to be taken by the hand in order to know where to go.

And a smart man could also make risk assetment after sovereign tell you the reapers are those who built the relays. and kaiden feeling a hum next to the relay monument should also make you suspicious.

If this was a D&D game it would have been different. events would have been able to be predicted before hand. instead people tend to think that happened in game was the only way to do things. thats simply the weakness of a linear story. nothing more. dont get me wrong,  its a great story. but its still a linear one.

Modifié par erezike, 17 octobre 2013 - 09:47 .

[KaiserShep]

erezike wrote...

Shepard didnt have much hard evidence as far as the council was concern.
shepard had visions for proof. and a recording of speaking a vi on virmire(soveriegn) it wasnt enough for the council to risk a costly war with the terminus systems.

This is fantastic, because the council had no problem accepting recordings before. Because of a single recording, they stripped a veteran Spectre of his rank, admitted a new Spectre from a species that did not even have a spot on the council yet, and then proceeded to use that same Spectre to pursue and either arrest or terminate the rogue, allowing all of this because it would be carried out on a single, stealth-capable ship. This same premise should hold true when weighing in on the decision to permit Shepard to investigate Ilos, after discovering that this is where Shepard would be. The council can reasonably disagree with sending an entire invasion fleet to the Terminus, but they have no good reason to restrict Shepard from further pursuit of a rogue.

They made a call based on the evidence they had. the scenario could have easily been resulted in different consquences.

You have the word of an STG captain that can confirm that Saren was raising an army of krogan by curing the genophage, which alone should alarm the entire council immensely, since the krogan accounted for plenty of deaths for all of their species. Even if they refuse to believe the bit about the reapers, the presence of the geth and the possibility of administering a cure for the thing that kept the krogan from wiping everyone out should be more than enough.

You have to judge the council decision based on the information they had on hand.

I do, and I judge them to be an insufferable gaggle of dunderheads.

If your president will tell you he want to go war against the rest of the worlds because he saw 'visions' you can bet it. that he will be declared nuts and removed from office.

This would be a fair point, if this decision was based solely on the beacon vision, but it isn't. Shepard has the entire Virmire site, the Noveria debacle, and the Feros and Eden Prime attacks to work with, yet somehow none of that matters.

Sometimes I regret letting that gaggle of dunderheads live. To at least Tevos' credit, she admits that they were wrong to mistrust Shepard.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:37 .

[Erez Kristal]

Evidence for saren going rouge are: A traumatize dock worker, a recording and who knows what other evidence the council had which they covered up from shepard and the public.

its also important to note that the council made shepard a spectre in order to avoid sending any fleets against the geth.

its was a political decision.


as for the council. I never let them live so it never really bothered me... The fleet had to focus on soveriegn.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

If saren is killed before arriving to the citadel control - we will be in the dark, but his plan will also fail.
Soveriegn wouldnt be able to enter the citadel( or lock it after entry) the relays wouldnt be close which would allow faster reinforcemetn to the citadel itself.

The citadel fleets were outmatch by the geth and soveriegn but they wouldnt have been with proper: alliance, turian, asari or salarian reinforcement. the alliance arrived first because they were most alert. it is safe to assume that some time after other alien fleets would have started(or started) to pour through.

Anderson Push for that decision. it was shepard final decision to steal the normandy. anderson simply made it possibile.

Spectres are above the ranks of the stg(council spies) thus the responsibility fell on shepard.

Shepard didnt have much hard evidence as far as the council was concern.
shepard had visions for proof. and a recording of speaking a vi on virmire(soveriegn) it wasnt enough for the council to risk a costly war with the terminus systems.

They made a call based on the evidence they had. the scenario could have easily been resulted in different consquences.

You have to judge the council decision based on the information they had on hand.

If your president will tell you he want to go war against the rest of the worlds because he saw 'visions' you can bet it. that he will be declared nuts and removed from office.

1. No, it won't. Because Sovergin can take remote control of the Station's systems by docking with it. Killing Saren would delay Sovergein reaching the Citadel but would Not stop him. And after Sovergein docks, we couldn't stop him without Vigil's data file -- which we wouildn't have because we didn't follow  Saren to Ilos. Besides, since we woulnd't know where the Conduit is, we;d have no clue what-so-ever to where Saren was or where he's going until far too late. I mean, the Cinduit is less then 20 feet from the elevator to the Council Chamber -- the idea that Saren could be shot and killed before traveling the necessary 20 feet is more then implausible. Besides, he wouldn't just step thought first -- he'd have a squadron of geth blitzkreig the way first and ensure there was no one in the way to stop him from crossing the bridge from the Conduit to the elevator.

You really aren't thinking this through.

2. No, they woulnd't. We know this because they didn't. All their fleets are stationed on the edges of Council Space because they didn't believe anyone would just blitz the Citadel.
And since Saren not reaching the Citadel Tower is a complete impossibility given how the Conduit is right next to the enterance, as well as the size of Saren's vanguard force of geth and krogan, the Mass Relays would be locked down by Saren from the Citadel control, meaning no Council fleet reinforcements, and no Alliance fleet reinforcements either. And even if Saren fails, then Sovergien will just hack it manually -- you know, because we don't have Vigil's data file to keep him out.

3. Yet, Anderson had to push for Shepard to do it, and Shepard was noticibly reluctant to do so. Shepard only went with it because he/she couldn't think of any other way. Simple as that.

4. Not accroding toe the Council, who say that the STG and Spectres both have the same clearences -- they're both tools of the Council: Spectres are the black-ops, and the STG are the recon specialists and spys. And I remind you that Saren was in charge of that raid on the batarian facility in "Mass Effect: Revelation" yet he was able to put all the blame on Anderson and the Council didn't even flinch at it. By your logic, Saren -- being the senior Spectre - should have been accountible for that. Instead, Anderson took the fall. The Council will believe anything their Spectre's tell them. Unless that Spectre's a human. (proof: Saren, and later on, Tela Vasir)

5. Shepard had Matriarch Benezia's testimony (recordings, rememver). They had the data from the Peak 15 on Noveria. They had the testimony of the colonists on Feros and ExoGeni about the Thorian and (if you spare her) Shiala, as well as the geth presence itself and the remains of the thorian and it's husks.They had Captian Kirrahe and Commander Rentola's testimony about Virmire and what Saren was doing there, and suit recordings of Sovergien talking. They had the recording Tali first provided them that had Saren stripped of his rank in the first place.
They had plenty of proof. They just chose to ignore it. And who said anything about sending in an entire fleet -- why not send another Spectre?? Surely they had more Spectres active back then besides Nhilus and Saren before Shepard came along - why ot just send one of them? Hell, give them the Normandy to use -- there was a hell of a lot they could have done but didn't out of sheer arrogance.

6. No, it couldn't -- that's just an excuse for the Council's screw-ups. As the above shows, this level of politic-steeped BS only had one realistic outcome -- Game Over. That's the long and short.

7. You need to take your own advice. You so far haven't judged them on the information that was avalible and have only provoded suppositions. The Council screwed up. Why are you going so far out of your way to defend a polotical system that has brought more harm then good to the galaxy?

8. When said person saved everyone from murdering machines, saved several colonies by their own hand, and provided multiple examples of corrilating evidence, including testimonies from the opposing force validating his claims, you can bet it that anyone sane would be getting in line to gear up for war. The Council's politics weren't practical -- they were short-sighted and oblivious to the big pictue.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 18 octobre 2013 - 07:52 .

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...
snip

no where in the game was shepard declared stripped of his spectre status. the only thing that happened was the normandy being grounded.

as evidence - shepard runs around with his full gear on after the normandy is grounded. you  can then visit chora den, the flux, shaira, the relay on the citadel and even the council chambers!   if admiral kaokue or that fella who lost his brother can hang around the council chambers looking for help, and if chroban can scan the keepers for who know how long. then you bet your ass shepard can camp there.

as for knowing where to go. you ussually protect the most important asset you know(engines, commandcenters.) the council tower is a command center so it make sense for shepard to head there first. the second part when defending is to follow the gunfire. shepard doesnt need to be taken by the hand in order to know where to go.

And a smart man could also make risk assetment after sovereign tell you the reapers are those who built the relays. and kaiden feeling a hum next to the relay monument should also make you suspicious.

If this was a D&D game it would have been different. events would have been able to be predicted before hand. instead people tend to think that happened in game was the only way to do things. thats simply the weakness of a linear story. nothing more. dont get me wrong,  its a great story. but its still a linear one.

1. Shepard was "relieved of duty." When the Alliance did that to him/her in ME3, that included being stripped of all access clearance. You honestly think it's any different for the Council? They aren't going to let Shepard run around with Spectre-access when they don't want him/her leaving the station. It's common sense.

2. But can you DO anything in those areas?:wizard:
No, you can't. You can't do squat anymore -- you're basically regulated to "observer" now. And you really think that the Council Chambers wouldn't have security cams everywhere watching every move Shepard made? You "camping" there doesn't make a damn bit of difference. Especally since if the geth blitzkrieg the station, you'll be dead before you even know what the hell's happening. And in the event of station attack, the tower would be one of the first places evacuated, meaning you wouldn't be able to stay and fight it out anyway, making it completely worthless to "camp" there.
Honestly -- you just aren't thinking it through. You're just making excuses for the Council.

3. No, the Council Chamber is NOT a command center. The command center is the Destiny Ascension. You might notice that instead of reinforcing the station, they evacuated to the Ascension the frist chance they got?
They have absolutly no clue what-so-ever that the Council Chamber is the master control station, or that Saren -- bearing Reaper code hacking upgrades -- could slice into the systems if they weren't around to guard it. And there is no garuntee what-so-ever that the Council Chamber IS where Saren would go. Hell, because no one knows the Conduit is a back-door onto the station, it's likely that no one would even know the Station was borded until it's too late. Remember Shepard's mission to free Kension in "Arrival?" By the time they knew Shepard was there, it was too damn late to matter.
Same case with Saren -- made even worse by the fact that the Conduit is right outside the entrence to the Council Chambers. No one would even know there were enemies to defend against until too late.

4. That's absolutly nothing to go off of. A hum coming from a relay monument? You think anyone is going to dismantle an ancient public monument because of a hum? If that was the case, don't you think someone would have done so already? Because I highly doubt that Kaiden is the only person in the entire galaxy that could hear the thing humming.

5. That's blind supposition -- the same thing you're accusing everyone else of doing. Things would only have been different if the Council hadn't been so arrogantly blind to the facts. As long as they were in charge, this would never have ended out any different.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

Evidence for saren going rouge are: A traumatize dock worker, a recording and who knows what other evidence the council had which they covered up from shepard and the public.

its also important to note that the council made shepard a spectre in order to avoid sending any fleets against the geth.

its was a political decision.


as for the council. I never let them live so it never really bothered me... The fleet had to focus on soveriegn.

Yet Tali's recording was spicifically stated by Turian Councilor Sparatus to be "irrifutible" evidence -- in other words, evidence that is 100% solid. Tali's recordings are proof, but Shepard's aren't? Mind telling me how the hell that makes sense?

And last I checked, other Spectre's were avalible -- it's impossible that there was no other Spectre to oversee the mission or send in Shepard's place. They did it as much to appise the Alliance as to stop Saren -- still playing the politics. It was not a practical decision.

In a situation that would never have happened had the arrogant bastards actually listened to you.

[Excella Gionne]

I wanted to re-open this sleeping thread again, 'cause now we have some newer members, I'd like to see what their take on this scenario would be like. Not returning to the Alliance would have opened up an entirely different prologue to ME3 completely. 

[Vazgen]

I always found it weird. Shepard works on a terrorist organization and he's no longer a part of the Alliance. The only reason he goes to Bahak system is as a personal favor to Hackett. What right does the Alliance have to put him on trial? Shepard stands on trial only because he still views himself as a part of the Alliance military.

 

Now, what would've happened if he would not've gone to Earth? I think the Alliance would've portrayed him as a rogue operative, a terrorist that have nothing to do with human military. Council would probably revoke his Spectre status (if it was restored), even send another Spectre to track him down (depending on Paragon/Renegade scores). Military will be reluctant to ask him for help and will only do it after some time. There will be no communication with Hackett or Anderson since quantum entanglement communicator only links to TIM. Alien races will be more mistrusting of Shepard, resulting in possible rejection of help. Some squadmates might not leave Normandy, Garrus will not become an advisor for turian military, Tali will not be an admiral...

[Excella Gionne]

I always found it weird. Shepard works on a terrorist organization and he's no longer a part of the Alliance. The only reason he goes to Bahak system is as a personal favor to Hackett. What right does the Alliance have to put him on trial? Shepard stands on trial only because he still views himself as a part of the Alliance military.

 

Now, what would've happened if he would not've gone to Earth? I think the Alliance would've portrayed him as a rogue operative, a terrorist that have nothing to do with human military. Council would probably revoke his Spectre status (if it was restored), even send another Spectre to track him down (depending on Paragon/Renegade scores). Military will be reluctant to ask him for help and will only do it after some time. There will be no communication with Hackett or Anderson since quantum entanglement communicator only links to TIM. Alien races will be more mistrusting of Shepard, resulting in possible rejection of help. Some squadmates might not leave Normandy, Garrus will not become an advisor for turian military, Tali will not be an admiral...

But that would be the point of leaving Cerberus, but not returning to the Alliance, because you don't have time to play nice with the galaxy. This could have made the game go a very interesting path. There are many complications with the mistrust with Shepard, but with Shep's theory that the Reapers are real and the galaxy in flames, who will the galaxy turn to in their time of need? 

[Vazgen]

But that would be the point of leaving Cerberus, but not returning to the Alliance, because you don't have time to play nice with the galaxy. This could have made the game go a very interesting path. There are many complications with the mistrust with Shepard, but with Shep's theory that the Reapers are real and the galaxy in flames, who will the galaxy turn to in their time of need? 

Oh, they will eventually come to Shepard. But people in times of war can be quite selfish and dumb (observe the asari) and will lose valuable time trying to do everything without Shepard. Shepard's trial makes the Alliance more trustworthy in the eyes of the aliens and more fitting to spearhead the counterattack. Without the trial, Shepard will not have the pull to influence the negotiations with different species (except maybe krogan, if Wrex is alive). I do agree that it would've been an interesting option to have

[Excella Gionne]

Oh, they will eventually come to Shepard. But people in times of war can be quite selfish and dumb (observe the asari) and will lose valuable time trying to do everything without Shepard. Shepard's trial makes the Alliance more trustworthy in the eyes of the aliens and more fitting to spearhead the counterattack. Without the trial, Shepard will not have the pull to influence the negotiations with different species (except maybe krogan, if Wrex is alive). I do agree that it would've been an interesting option to have

Shepard does have a lot to back him/herself up should he/she be asked about their involvement with Cerberus. I mean seriously, Shepard takes care of galactic problems. Kill Sovereign, and killed the Collectors. Even I wouldn't be a smartass against someone who did those two things.

[Vazgen]

Shepard does have a lot to back him/herself up should he/she be asked about their involvement with Cerberus. I mean seriously, Shepard takes care of galactic problems. Kill Sovereign, and killed the Collectors. Even I wouldn't be a smartass against someone who did those two things.

You see, Shepard acts within the authority of the Council when dealing with all those species. What makes Shepard so unique to get all those privileges? Sure, he did stop the Sovereign and the Collectors, but he's also a mass murderer and a terrorist. So is the Illusive Man. The Council will need to deal with what I call "Javik's dilemma" - Because you still have hope that this war will end with your honor intact. My response is in line with Javik's - Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer. The Council might disagree. That's where your decision to save them should pay off.

[Excella Gionne]

You see, Shepard acts within the authority of the Council when dealing with all those species. What makes Shepard so unique to get all those privileges? Sure, he did stop the Sovereign and the Collectors, but he's also a mass murderer and a terrorist. So is the Illusive Man. The Council will need to deal with what I call "Javik's dilemma" - Because you still have hope that this war will end with your honor intact. My response is in line with Javik's - Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer. The Council might disagree. That's where your decision to save them should pay off.

Well, in ME3, we're mainly trying to save Earth for the most part, but in this scenario, we're not paying attention on just Earth. Let's say the Citadel gets compromised at the beginning instead of at the end, how will the Citadel council react to the Reapers? And what if the Council died(again if you killed them in ME1)? I've got to say, this scenario can have plotholes just as much as the actual game itself, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work. 

 

Remember, Hackett is very much to blame for the entire Kenson incident, 'cause he has other teams doing their own dirty work that he assigned to them. Also, what if we didn't t do Arrival, but didn't return to Earth either? In ME3, Hackett orders the 105th Fleet(I believe this is correct)to complete the Arrival mission if you didn't do it in ME2 which is why that asset is weakened in ME3.

[Vazgen]

Well, in ME3, we're mainly trying to save Earth for the most part, but in this scenario, we're not paying attention on just Earth. Let's say the Citadel gets compromised at the beginning instead of at the end, how will the Citadel council react to the Reapers? And what if the Council died(again if you killed them in ME1)? I've got to say, this scenario can have plotholes just as much as the actual game itself, but that doesn't mean it couldn't work. 

 

Remember, Hackett is very much to blame for the entire Kenson incident, 'cause he has other teams doing their own dirty work that he assigned to them. Also, what if we didn't t do Arrival, but didn't return to Earth either? In ME3, Hackett orders the 105th Fleet(I believe this is correct)to complete the Arrival mission if you didn't do it in ME2 which is why that asset is weakened in ME3.

That's an interesting question. Shepard worked for a terrorist organization (which the Council can turn a blind eye on) and parts ways with them after SM. Does he have to stand on trial for that? The thing is, Shepard is a soldier, he either knows no other life (Spacer) or escaped the other life (Earthborn, Colonist). Being a soldier is all he knows and he will return to the Alliance at some point, especially if no bridges were burnt. 

The series have so much potential for more weight on the decisions. This, Liara's Shadow Broker DLC - she should not have become the Shadow Broker without Shepard's help, rachni - Reaper-created queen is just laughable... 

I'm pretty sure all of these could've worked. It would've required much more work and ME3 would've been a game of a whole another scale. That's the problem with importing saves. So many variables to account and you have to make sure all those different flags play out differently...

[Larry-3]

After Mass Effect 2 I did not want to return to the Alliance. I was already a Specter that leaned towards being a paragon. Why do I need the Alliance? They took my ship and chopped it up from the inside out and even took away some the upgrades I put into it. Then they put my Shepard under house arrest. I was happy being a mercenary. If the Alliance needs my help they can email me and maybe I will take Kelly when she says I have a new message, other then that I want nothing to do with them. I will take my ship, my crew -- and just like Firefly -- keep flying.

[KaiserShep]

Shepard would not have been of much use as an independent operator.