245 réponses à ce sujet

[David7204]

I wouldn't take a position with a boss that I hate. Or really, a job that I hate. Or even dislike. 

Modifié par David7204, 11 octobre 2013 - 09:45 .

[Mr.House]

David7204 wrote...

I wouldn't take a position with a boss that I hate. Or really, a job that I hate. Or even dislike. 

*headdesk* The point, it just leaped over your head and into the river.

[Erez Kristal]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

ME2 is well written to make anyone feel pro-Cerberus

Except not really - once again, Cerberus is the space!Al-Qaeda group that killed Shepard's squad on Akuze, and Shepard just takes space!Bin-Laden's word for everything after he wakes up; Shepard doesn't even call his buddies to see if TIM is, in fact, telling the truth but accepts everything.
If the game had demonstrated that Shepard has to work with Cerberus then it might have been acceptable (except of course for those who want to roleplay Shepard as having some kind of morals and who wouldn't join terrorist organisations at the drop of a hat) but that's not what happened...
Much like ME3's ending, you have a conversation that ends in an impasse that is then arbitrarily resolved by Shepard/Catalyst giving in for no reason at all

Akuze was a cerberus operation under alliance banners... just like pragia and who knows what else.
the game did demonstrate shepard had to work with cerberus, because only with cerberus was shepard able to fight the reapers.
It was either start back from nothing or join cerberus and get a shot at the reapers.
shepard has been portrayed from the start to be all about saving  lives. there was simply no way for shepard to save the colonists and stop the collectors without cerberus help. if you think there was any. feel free to suggest the alternatives.

It also seemed to be an alliance interest for shepard to be working with cerberus. since they didnt make any attempts of trying to bring shepard back.(same goes for the council)

[spirosz]

David7204 wrote...

No Alliance means no Cortez, no Traynor, no James, and no Adams. 

I wish. 

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Massa FX wrote...

Arrival disregards Shepard's Spectre status. Completely. ME3 acts as if Shepard needed Alliance approval on how she stopped the Reapers.

Her destroying the Battarian colony should not have been punishable by any entity. She was doing her job.

I'm disappointed in how the story devolved and the lore that was presented and hyped from ME1 to ME2 was ignored.

I think the 103rd or 105th Marines destroyed the batarian colony and blew up the relay IIRC.  It's amazing how the lines change from "lock up" to "relieved of duty" when Arrival is uninstalled from ones hard drive.

That was an emergency action. I doubt that those Marines had permission to blow up the Relay, any more then Shepard did. Making the Alliance just as accountible. Hell, an entire group like that means that Hackett got so desperate to rescue Kenson from batarian interrogation that he said "screw it" to the stealth approach and sent a whole team in -- that would have incriminated the Alliance explisitly in not just the destruction of the Alpha Relay, but given the batarians the abilaty to say the Alliance sent an entire unit on them.
And Shepard running around the galaxy unchecked would have given the Aliance and Council a heart-attack. Regardless of Arrival or not, Shepard wasn't going to get out of this without having to explain these actions, even if it is all BS politics.

Also, I played Arrival, but I still got both "Relieved of duty" and "Lock-up" lines, as I recall. Isn't that how it always was?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 12 octobre 2013 - 03:57 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

No. If I did Arrival, it was always "Lock up" and Shepard never corrected them. If I didn't do Arrival, Shepard corrected them to "Relieved of duty."

So the Batarians killed Kenson because they saw a bunch of marines coming, and the Marines blew up the relay.

Rescuing Kenson was outside of the parameters described by the Council when they reactivated her Spectre status. "Just so long as you keep your activities confined to the Terminus Systems."

Batarian Space is in Earth Aliiance Space according to the Galaxy map which is Council space, and funny so is Horizon. I'm coming to the conclusion that "Terminus Systems" is anywhere the Council doesn't want to go because it is inconvenient for them. Not because it is actually in the Terminus Systems Sector. But as soon as the Quarians petitioned the Council for a world in the Terminus systems, the Council decided that it it part of Council space and suddenly no longer worried about triggering any kind of war, and blockaded the planet threatening it with bombardment because a few Quarians decided to "squat" before the Council reached their sanctimonious decision.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Mr.House wrote...

David7204 wrote...

I wouldn't take a position with a boss that I hate. Or really, a job that I hate. Or even dislike. 

*headdesk* The point, it just leaped over your head and into the river.

He's planning to be a professional student.

[Erez Kristal]

the implications of the marine team knowing about the alpha relay location are that the alliance was well aware of what was going on... hackket knew more than he let you know.
Just like the renegade mission on mass effect 1.

People like to say hackett is a buddy.

I say, hes an alliance fleet admiral. they cant make friends. not even with shepard.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

No. If I did Arrival, it was always "Lock up" and Shepard never corrected them. If I didn't do Arrival, Shepard corrected them to "Relieved of duty."

So the Batarians killed Kenson because they saw a bunch of marines coming, and the Marines blew up the relay.

Rescuing Kenson was outside of the parameters described by the Council when they reactivated her Spectre status. "Just so long as you keep your activities confined to the Terminus Systems."

Batarian Space is in Earth Aliiance Space according to the Galaxy map which is Council space, and funny so is Horizon. I'm coming to the conclusion that "Terminus Systems" is anywhere the Council doesn't want to go because it is inconvenient for them. Not because it is actually in the Terminus Systems Sector. But as soon as the Quarians petitioned the Council for a world in the Terminus systems, the Council decided that it it part of Council space and suddenly no longer worried about triggering any kind of war, and blockaded the planet threatening it with bombardment because a few Quarians decided to "squat" before the Council reached their sanctimonious decision.

Not from what I read in the War Asset screen.
According to that, the Alliance marrines did in fact rescue Kenson, then proceeded to go through the events of Arrival same as Shepard -- only they didn't have a stealth ship waiting to exfill them like Shepard did. Hence, they died, and nearly one-third of the effective strength of the 105th Marrines is expended doing the "Arrival" mission in Shepard's place.

But Shepard was the Alliance's golden child -- the image of what humanity can achieve, what with becoming first human Spectre. What Shepard does reflects on the rest of the Alliance. So, running with terrorists is pretty much a big no-no in their book.  And by publiclly humiliating Shepard with the Alpha Relay incident, they have the excuse they need to lock Shepard up and keep the Commander away from Cerberus, while having complete control over the flow of information about the Reapers. "Politics at their finest."

Actually, Batarian space is on the edge of Alliance space -- it's a thin sliver at the edge of the Attican Traverse, sitting between Alliance space and the Terminus systems. Terminus systems refer the "north" pieces of the galaxy. Spacificially:

• Caleston Rift
• Crescent Nebula
• Far Rim
• Hourglass Nebula
• Omega Nebula
• Perseus Veil
• The Phoenix Massing
• Rosetta Nebula
• The Shrike Abyssal
• Sigurd's Cradle
• Titan Nebula
• Valhallan Threshold

Also, that was just Council loopholes -- since the quarians came to them with an official request for colonization, the Council got the legal rights to say "no" as they see fit. Kinda like putting your new home on the documents of your old bank, only for them to pull some BS about "outstanding debts" that lets them take it. That's what the Council'd doing -- only with much more sleeze to it.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

the implications of the marine team knowing about the alpha relay location are that the alliance was well aware of what was going on... hackket knew more than he let you know.
Just like the renegade mission on mass effect 1.

People like to say hackett is a buddy.

I say, hes an alliance fleet admiral. they cant make friends. not even with shepard.

Dude -- they didn't know about the Alpha Relay. They learned it from Kenson, same as Shepard does if you do Arrival.
Hackett didn't know anything else -- that's why he requested you to gp in the first place. He sent that team in on the same pretenses as you. And they learned about the Alpha Relay the same way -- Kenson's explinations, as part of her "not indoctrinated" cover.

So, in regards to Hackett, I don't think there's a better buddy in the entire Alliance leadership besides Anderson himself.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Yeah, the Alliance didn't seem to think it was that big of a deal, Shepard running with Cerberus while she was taking out the Collectors for them, but then all of a sudden it becomes a big deal. It's total political BS. Funny how if you had Udina as Councilor, ADMIRAL Anderson didn't say "Shepard, get your Alliance ass the hell away from Cerberus. That's an order, Commander." Oh, that. Sorry, our folk hero writer didn't write it that way. He just said. "Be careful. You can't trust Cerberus." So you do your job and even if you didn't blow up any relay, you get hung out to dry. Someone tell me why Shepard is wearing that uniform?

[AlexMBrennan]

Yeah, the Alliance didn't seem to think it was that big of a deal, Shepard running with Cerberus while she was taking out the Collectors for them

Except for the bit where Shepard is nearly executed by the Council if it hadn't been for Alliance intervention... the galaxy is not as accepting of Shepard working with Cerberus as you like to think.

It's total political BS

Is it? Sounds like the CIA supporting the Taliban when they were conveniently fighting the russians, but turning 180 after the end of the cold war...

[KaiserShep]

When was Shepard nearly executed?

[IllusiveManJr]

spirosz wrote...

David7204 wrote...

No Alliance means no Cortez, no Traynor, no James, and no Adams. 

I wish. 

Me too. 

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Yeah, the Alliance didn't seem to think it was that big of a deal, Shepard running with Cerberus while she was taking out the Collectors for them, but then all of a sudden it becomes a big deal. It's total political BS. Funny how if you had Udina as Councilor, ADMIRAL Anderson didn't say "Shepard, get your Alliance ass the hell away from Cerberus. That's an order, Commander." Oh, that. Sorry, our folk hero writer didn't write it that way. He just said. "Be careful. You can't trust Cerberus." So you do your job and even if you didn't blow up any relay, you get hung out to dry. Someone tell me why Shepard is wearing that uniform?

They olny let Shepard run with Cerberus until the Collectors were delt with -- so that they didn;t have to get off their asses and do the job themselves. Moment Shepard finished the Collectors, he/she became too much of a "liability" to leave uncontroled.

Besides, Anderson knows that the Alliance will just lock up Shepard to (A) validate that he/she is not some Cerberus clone, and ( keep him/her from embaressing them and the Council with "unsubstainated rumors" about the Reapers. After all, being declared dead for two years, Shepard's name isn't on the roster anymore, meaning he/she isn't an Alliance soldier anymore. And if Shepard does come back to the Alliance, Anderson knows that the Council and Alliance will just bury him/her in political BS and make it impossible for her to get any headway on finding a way to stop the Reaper's plans. He figures you're better off on your own without the miles and miles and miles of political red-tape.

Course, you're actions end up drawing too much attention anyway, forcing you to either turn yourself in or risk major problems for the Alliance's Reaper prep -- now that they actually are prepping. Just took a relay blowing up to tell them "we need to do something."

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 octobre 2013 - 04:58 .

[silverexile17s]

KaiserShep wrote...

When was Shepard nearly executed?

The Council said that Shepard working with Cerberus was treason -- a capital offience. The last Spectre declared guilty of Treason was none other then Saren Arterius. And they gave him a death-mark. They really, really don't like it when Spectres - especally well-known folk hero Spectres like Saren was, and Shepard is - decide to go rouge. Especally when they also decide to join with illegal groups like the geth or Cerberus.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 13 octobre 2013 - 04:56 .

[Kenshen]

Since I am not that big of end game hater it has always been my opinion that the biggest mistake with ME3 was no trail at the begining of the game. Would have been a cool way to recount prior events and choices plus giving us an oppertunity to be pro or anti alliance even if we are railroaded into working with them. Heck the trail didn't have to be about destroying the relay from a DLC, it could be something as simple as working with Cerberus.

[AlexMBrennan]

For the last time, Shepard is an Alliance soldier, so it's not railroading to have Shepard be pro-Alliance - if you want to play an Omega crime lord, well, too bad you because you can't.

it could be something as simple as working with Cerberus.

"Did you work with Cerberus?"
"Yes, but -"
"Shooting squad. Next!"

[KaiserShep]

silverexile17s wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When was Shepard nearly executed?

The Council said that Shepard working with Cerberus was treason -- a capital offience. The last Spectre declared guilty of Treason was none other then Saren Arterius. And they gave him a death-mark. They really, really don't like it when Spectres - especally well-known folk hero Spectres like Saren was, and Shepard is - decide to go rouge. Especally when they also decide to join with illegal groups like the geth or Cerberus.

To me, almost being executed would have to involve some kind of proceedings of some sort that could potentially lead to said execution, rather than a passing statement about them simply not approving of what Shepard is doing at the moment. As it just as quickly evaporates as the human councilor objects to the notion, and the council immediately offers peripheral support and reinstatement of his/her Spectre status, Shepard was no closer to being executed than he/she was being magically turned into an elcor diplomat.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 14 octobre 2013 - 06:48 .

[silverexile17s]

KaiserShep wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

When was Shepard nearly executed?

The Council said that Shepard working with Cerberus was treason -- a capital offience. The last Spectre declared guilty of Treason was none other then Saren Arterius. And they gave him a death-mark. They really, really don't like it when Spectres - especally well-known folk hero Spectres like Saren was, and Shepard is - decide to go rouge. Especally when they also decide to join with illegal groups like the geth or Cerberus.

To me, almost being executed would have to involve some kind of proceedings of some sort that could potentially lead to said execution, rather than a passing statement about them simply not approving of what Shepard is doing at the moment. As it just as quickly evaporates as the human councilor objects to the notion, and the council immediately offers peripheral support and reinstatement of his/her Spectre status, Shepard was no closer to being executed than he/she was being magically turned into an elcor diplomat.

Not when the subject is a Black-Ops agent like a Spectre. Saren is an example of this -- the Council immediately sent Shepard out to take Saren down. They didn't hesitate to put a "Dead or Alive" mark on him without any concern for things like proceedings. After all, they don't want it to be a public specticle. That's why Spectre's exist in the frist place -- so that they can take care of the things the Council doesn't want to be involved in, and so that they cav be conviently disavowed if things turn sour. Black-Ops soldiers that do all the dirty work, get none of the credit in public, but will take the fall in public if things go south.
However, when Anderson threatens to have the whole affair made into a public specticle, it made the Council reconsider -- to politically unstable a ground to tread. They'd have to deal with miles of red-tape and political fallout if this kind of thing went public. In ME1, they conceal all information about Saren going rouge -- the only way anyone finds out is if you yourself tell Kalisah Al Jalini in your first interview with her. If you don't, then shock of all shocks, no one ever finds out which Spectre went rouge and led the geth until it was declassified after the Battle of the Citadel, when Saren was confirmed dead.
So, yes -- if not for Anderson sticking out for you (a big risk, since he can't trust your Cerberus ties and has no reason to trust you), the Council would have indeed issued you to be executed. You actually were in a very real danger.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

It wasn't like you walked in the front door and filled out a job application for Cerberus. It wasn't like if Udina was councilor, that ADMIRAL Anderson said, "Cut this Cerberus crap, Shepard and get back to the Alliance. That's an order." No, he didn't. You were dead for two years. Oh, but you can't prove it. Ah, yes, only Liara can prove it and you ... wait if you don't go see the Council until after you meet Liara, you could.... Okay, so then you do have proof. And Miranda. Okay.

Miranda: "You can have Shepard back, no problem. You'll be receiving a bill for 4.3 billion credits from The Illusive Man. That's how much it cost to bring Shepard back to life. We expect payment in full. Come on Jacob."

[Lhawke]

Shepard herself said "technically I am no longer in the Alliance"
I do not feel she should have been obliged to turn herself in to the Alliance (non arrival play). Besides she has evidence of Anderson meeting with Cerberus. That would be kind of awkward to explain.

I think idea behind the op would have made for a better start to me3. What we got was just so bland.

There was talk was there not before me3 came out, that Shepard would be able to have an anti-alliance stance. I would have loved to have been able to throw those dog tags back at Anderson.

[silverexile17s]

Lhawke wrote...

Shepard herself said "technically I am no longer in the Alliance"
I do not feel she should have been obliged to turn herself in to the Alliance (non arrival play). Besides she has evidence of Anderson meeting with Cerberus. That would be kind of awkward to explain.

I think idea behind the op would have made for a better start to me3. What we got was just so bland.

There was talk was there not before me3 came out, that Shepard would be able to have an anti-alliance stance. I would have loved to have been able to throw those dog tags back at Anderson.

If Shepard doesn't turn himself/herself in, then the Alliance faces war with the batarians. Which could in turn spark conflicts in the Terminus. Tens of thousands are at risk of dying -- it's not about obligation to the Alliance. It's about obligation to innocent lives, and obligation to keeping the many galactic factions from wasting energy on each-other rather then preping for the Reapers. And considering Shepard's own affiliation with Cerberus, the Commander would hardly be in any position say he/she is any more justified. Hell, the only reason Anderson's in contact with Cerberus is to likely make sure you're safe.

Honestly, an Anti-Alliance stance really doesn't make sense now. They've learned the hard way about the Reapers. It's not like there's any reason to be anti-Alliance now that they actually acknowledge the threat.

[silverexile17s]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

It wasn't like you walked in the front door and filled out a job application for Cerberus. It wasn't like if Udina was councilor, that ADMIRAL Anderson said, "Cut this Cerberus crap, Shepard and get back to the Alliance. That's an order." No, he didn't. You were dead for two years. Oh, but you can't prove it. Ah, yes, only Liara can prove it and you ... wait if you don't go see the Council until after you meet Liara, you could.... Okay, so then you do have proof. And Miranda. Okay.

Miranda: "You can have Shepard back, no problem. You'll be receiving a bill for 4.3 billion credits from The Illusive Man. That's how much it cost to bring Shepard back to life. We expect payment in full. Come on Jacob."

@Julia, Anderson being an Admiral changes absolutly noithing at all. As Admiral, he tells the Council that UDINA will fight this. ADMIRAL means jack-squat to the Council -- they only care about the mess a fellow COUNCILOR can make. Anderson can either threaten to cause it himself, or threaten having Udina do so (a bluff likely, but one the Council falls for). They're only scared about COUNCILORS.
Besides, being an Alliance Admiral means nothing to the Shepard situation either. after Shepard's assumed death, telling him/her to "get back to the Alliance" is the absolute worst thing Anderson can possibly do. Shepard would be incarcerated the moment the Commander stepped foot off the ship - for threat of (A) being a clone, ( being brainwashed, or © that if let loose, he/she will cause panic by running his/her mouth about the "mythical" Reapers. Anderson realized that the Alliance was the absolute last place Shepard shoud be, because the only thing it was offering the Commander right now was a jail cell -- not where Shepard should be when the Collectors are abudcting colonies. Hell, he even says that he'll keep the Alliance board off your back and stall them out as long as he can.
And who's going to believe Liara T'Soni after she became a member of the criminal undergorund? The Council would just find thing after thing to nit-pick at in her testiment. Everything from PTSD syndrome from losing Shepard in the first place, to illegal dealings with Cerberus for handing them Shepard's body - regardless of being asumptions or not. And Miranda, being Cerberus, wouldn't even get the chance to go that far -- everything she'd say would be taken under suspect seeing as she's part of the terrorist orginization.
It's a big mess, and one that Anderson knew Shepard was better off not dealing with when the Collectors were out there.

Modifié par silverexile17s, 14 octobre 2013 - 09:09 .