245 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

So... just make a game that doesn't ruin anyone's canon, perhaps? Seems like clearly the best option with so much controversy.

Not that Synthesis actually implies that everything will be perfectly peaceful immediately afterward anyway, though there's certainly far more potential for it. But with future technological development, I hardly see how it's impossible.

[wright1978]

Xilizhra wrote...

In any case, can't the Alliance handle defense?

I certainly wouldn't trust the Alliance to handle defence.

[AlexMBrennan]

Spectre. And if not that, it's still rather a waste until you learn more about what actually happened.

At the time Shepard joins Cerberus he is no longer a spectre (otherwise he couldn't be reinstated). In any case Spectres are hardly above the law (maybe replay ME1).

[Xilizhra]

wright1978 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

In any case, can't the Alliance handle defense?

I certainly wouldn't trust the Alliance to handle defence.

I'd trust them more than Cerberus. Of course, in my ending, I can handle everyone's defense.

At the time Shepard joins Cerberus he is no longer a spectre (otherwise
he couldn't be reinstated). In any case Spectres are hardly above the
law (maybe replay ME1).

That's up to the discretion of the Council; evidently, they didn't consider Shepard enough of a threat to kill.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 16 octobre 2013 - 12:25 .

[wright1978]

StreetMagic wrote...

In any case, I doubt there's ever going to be a canonized ending. I think the developers wanted to enable many types of player experiences with the original endings. And then torch the franchise.

Except, someone more powerful told them not to torch the franchise. So now we'll all be confused for awhile, until they explain the next game's premise.

I don't see how they can go forward without setting it in a canonised default universe.

[Lhawke]

silverexile17s wrote...

Lhawke wrote...

Shepard herself said "technically I am no longer in the Alliance"
I do not feel she should have been obliged to turn herself in to the Alliance (non arrival play). Besides she has evidence of Anderson meeting with Cerberus. That would be kind of awkward to explain.

I think idea behind the op would have made for a better start to me3. What we got was just so bland.

There was talk was there not before me3 came out, that Shepard would be able to have an anti-alliance stance. I would have loved to have been able to throw those dog tags back at Anderson.

If Shepard doesn't turn himself/herself in, then the Alliance faces war with the batarians. Which could in turn spark conflicts in the Terminus. Tens of thousands are at risk of dying -- it's not about obligation to the Alliance. It's about obligation to innocent lives, and obligation to keeping the many galactic factions from wasting energy on each-other rather then preping for the Reapers. And considering Shepard's own affiliation with Cerberus, the Commander would hardly be in any position say he/she is any more justified. Hell, the only reason Anderson's in contact with Cerberus is to likely make sure you're safe.

Honestly, an Anti-Alliance stance really doesn't make sense now. They've learned the hard way about the Reapers. It's not like there's any reason to be anti-Alliance now that they actually acknowledge the threat.

Roleplaying a Shepard be it paragon renegade or neutral who has had enough of the alliance and it's bs would have made for an interesting playthrough.  I like protaginists to have a choice of character be it good bad or indifferent. Some will forgive and forget, others won't.

A non arrival Shepard has no quarrel with the Batarians and no reason to be hiding from them and no reason to be in lockdown and told "the **** that you've done" and  "thrown away the key" by Anderson. He talks as if Shepard has been a criminal, which was not the case for my non arrival shepard.
For what? saving the terminus colonies from abduction. Working with Cerberus with the knowledge and support of the council and Anderson.  A non arrival shepard should have been able to turn over the Normandy sr2 and been free to leave. This of course would apply to a paragon shepard.

Regardless of whether it makes sense I would have liked my full renegade shepard  to be able to refuse reinstatement and declare "I'm done with the Alliance, I will work with you not for you"  Sounds a bit like the Cerberus deal.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

[quote]Kataphrut94 wrote...
[quote]erezike wrote...
[quote]Kataphrut94 wrote...
I do support the ends justifying the means, which is why I do not support Cerberus. Everything they did ended in failure 
[/quote]
Everything? you are being demagogic.
[/quote]
Pretty much everything. Just let me copy paste this list from another forum:

Akuze: Feeding soldiers to thresher maws to test the effects of feeding soldiers to thresher maws.
[/quote]

This is pure speculation. We aren't given any kind of agenda or goal or insight from Cerberus. We don't know what their goal is or was. You're damning it because you don't like it. 
[/quote]
Rachni: They got loose and killed all their guys.
[/quote]

And this was admitted as a mistake on Cerberus' part. They underestimated Rachni intelligence and capabilities.

[quote]
Thorian Creepers: They got loose and killed all their guys.
[/quote]

As I remember, this was entirely beyond Cerberus' control. And as well, ExoGeni was the organization using the Creepers on Nodacrux. They were successfully utilized... until Shepard killed the Thorian. This was entirely beyond Cerberus' control and outside their agenda. The Creepers that Cerberus was using certainly didn't get loose and go on a rampage. In fact, they seemed to be pretty well under control. The purpose they were being used for was never fulfilled because Shepard interfered with their plans. This really isn't a fault on Cerberus' own end.

[quote]
Project Lazarus: Brought one guy back from the dead, then let the valuable cure data get blown up by mechs. Also, the guy they brought back eventually got loose and killed all their guys.
[/quote]

Lazarus was much more than just a cure, and there was a lot more effort and resources involved than would be feasible for any real resurrection project. Besides, the aim of the mission wasn't to create a cure for death. It was to bring back Shepard to accomplish an objective of stopping the Reapers. He succeeded, despite the betrayal of a disgruntled employee who was also engaged in espionage for a hostile organization that caused the destruction of the station. Still, despite the cost, it was an unquestionable success. Shepard succeeded at what Cerberus brought him back for. 

[quote]
Pragia: Lost all test subjects bar one, who was too angry and traumatised to ever benefit them. Also, she got loose and killed all their guys.
[/quote]

1. Teltin was a rogue cell operating beyond TIM's control. 

2. It still succeeded at creating the ultimate human biotic. And she was of use. For Project Lazarus. She served her purpose, and she served it well there. She was brought on board and she was a successul member of the team that contributed to Lazarus' success, even if she was a contentious figure within the team.

[quote]
Overlord: Hooked an autistic man up to the geth network in the most unnecessarily painful way possible, somehow surprised that they got loose and killed all their guys.[/quote]

Unnecessarily painful? Yes. 

Successful? Fundamentally, yes. Cerberus seems to have succeeded at most of their experiments. They're accomplishing the goals they set out to achieve, regardless of the cost of achieving it. Cerberus did indeed find a way to bring the Geth under control. With refinement, I believe it would have been a truly beneficial experiment.

See, you're just describing costs to actions. Look at Cerberus' key goals. They're mostly being accomplished.

They created the ultimate human biotic. They found a way to control the Geth. They brought back the only person who could rally the galaxy to victory over the Reapers. They accomplished what they set out to do.

[quote]
Collector Base: Broken clock is right twice a day. Not that it really mattered, since Shepard did all the work, they became indoctrinated studying the technology, and the Collectors were ultimately a fringe threat. Thanks to James Vega, the Alliance would have sorted them out if Shepard hadn't done it sooner.
[/quote]

As I recall, Shepard can be RP'd as a Cerberus agent, which mine was. He acknowledges that he is a member of Cerberus in ME2, professing to Miranda that he did indeed wish they had recruited him sooner. So yes, Cerberus did solve the Collector threat, even if my Shepard went against TIM's wishes by destroying the base.

Not because he didn't trust Cerberus, but because he didn't trust the base. The Reapers were its masters, its controllers. Only they could unlock its true potential, at least until a point was reached where the galaxy could surpass the Reapers.

And a fringe threat? They were building a Reaper, and were a direct threat to humanity. They were directly targeting human settlements and had plans for an attack on Earth itself. 

As for Vega and the alliance, that's speculation. I personally believe, from viewing what the alliance was doing during this point, that my Shepard's assesment and agreement with Delan on Horizon - The alliance are useless idiots. I can't say how this would have turned out, but to claim that it would have been objective truth that the alliance would have solved the problem is rather foolish I believe.

[Steelcan]

I like how everyone forgets that the scientists on Akuze were Alliance scientists working for an Alliance black op group.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Lhawke wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Lhawke wrote...

Shepard herself said "technically I am no longer in the Alliance"
I do not feel she should have been obliged to turn herself in to the Alliance (non arrival play). Besides she has evidence of Anderson meeting with Cerberus. That would be kind of awkward to explain.

I think idea behind the op would have made for a better start to me3. What we got was just so bland.

There was talk was there not before me3 came out, that Shepard would be able to have an anti-alliance stance. I would have loved to have been able to throw those dog tags back at Anderson.

If Shepard doesn't turn himself/herself in, then the Alliance faces war with the batarians. Which could in turn spark conflicts in the Terminus. Tens of thousands are at risk of dying -- it's not about obligation to the Alliance. It's about obligation to innocent lives, and obligation to keeping the many galactic factions from wasting energy on each-other rather then preping for the Reapers. And considering Shepard's own affiliation with Cerberus, the Commander would hardly be in any position say he/she is any more justified. Hell, the only reason Anderson's in contact with Cerberus is to likely make sure you're safe.

Honestly, an Anti-Alliance stance really doesn't make sense now. They've learned the hard way about the Reapers. It's not like there's any reason to be anti-Alliance now that they actually acknowledge the threat.

Roleplaying a Shepard be it paragon renegade or neutral who has had enough of the alliance and it's bs would have made for an interesting playthrough.  I like protaginists to have a choice of character be it good bad or indifferent. Some will forgive and forget, others won't.

A non arrival Shepard has no quarrel with the Batarians and no reason to be hiding from them and no reason to be in lockdown and told "the **** that you've done" and  "thrown away the key" by Anderson. He talks as if Shepard has been a criminal, which was not the case for my non arrival shepard.
For what? saving the terminus colonies from abduction. Working with Cerberus with the knowledge and support of the council and Anderson.  A non arrival shepard should have been able to turn over the Normandy sr2 and been free to leave. This of course would apply to a paragon shepard.

Regardless of whether it makes sense I would have liked my full renegade shepard  to be able to refuse reinstatement and declare "I'm done with the Alliance, I will work with you not for you"  Sounds a bit like the Cerberus deal.

As I RP it, Shepard was apprehended, more or less against his will, by the alliance after ME2. 

[MassivelyEffective0730]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

Spectre. And if not that, it's still rather a waste until you learn more about what actually happened.

At the time Shepard joins Cerberus he is no longer a spectre (otherwise he couldn't be reinstated). In any case Spectres are hardly above the law (maybe replay ME1).

I don't give a damn about the law as a Spectre, and as Shepard, because the law is an impediment to my goal of stopping the Reapers.

Why should I follow an organization like the Council and the alliance that aren't doing the job of actually preparing or working for the galaxy or aren't interested in serving the general welfare of the galaxy in a means that actually works?

I acknowledge that  I am breaking the law. I don't care about it. I'm free of it. If the alliance or the council wants to whine about it, that's their problem. If they try to do something about it, I'll do something about them. 

Mass Effect really is a power fantasy. And I intend to roll with power in my fantasy the way I see fit.

[The Night Mammoth]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

And a fringe threat? They were building a Reaper, and were a direct threat to humanity. They were directly targeting human settlements and had plans for an attack on Earth itself. 

Which would have utterly, utterly failed, if their efforts to harvest Horizon and the strength of their single operating ship are anything to go by.

So yeah, a fringe threat, capable of attacking isolated and lightly defended colonies outside Alliance protection, but little more than that.

Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 16 octobre 2013 - 02:07 .

[Steelcan]

Either way they were working for the Alliance according to Hackett and Cerberus was at the time an Alliance black op group. Therefore Akuze was a sanctioned Alliance operation.

[AlexMBrennan]

And a fringe threat? They were building a Reaper

The Reapers arrived in baterian space before Shepard destroyed the Collectors and there is no way they could have completed the remaining 90% of the work in 6 months (given that they had managed just 10% in the two years Shepard had been dead for).

Sorry, but whilst stupid bridging DLC is stupid it is nevertheless canon.

Modifié par AlexMBrennan, 16 octobre 2013 - 02:11 .

[Kataphrut94]

Since quote pyramids are a pain in the ass, I'll just say it plainly: Overlord was not a success. If it had been, I wouldn't have had to fight my way through four different labs filled with hostile geth and dead Cerberus scientists just to clean up the damn mess. That is a failure right there. What's entertaining is that Shepard would later end up successfully communicating with and influencing the geth consensus barely a year later, when the geth simply let him in and give him a cyber-interface that isn't functionally a crucifix. The end does not justify the means because David's suffering was for nothing.

Similarly, since no one can make up their mind about what was actually going on with Akuze, give me any motivation you want and I can tell you a better way of achieving it than luring unsuspecting human soldiers into a thresher maw nest. For Christ's sake, since when does a human-supremacy group kill off servicemen of their own race? The least they could do was send some turians in there or something.

As for Project Lazarus, if you tell me that it was a success purely on the basis of Commander Shepard coming back to life, then the whole thing was a joke to begin with. Creating a cure for death should not have been in the service of bringing back Shepard, it should be the other way around. I've said this many times, but I refuse to buy Wilson's betrayal as being money woes, because in any sane organisation, they would have sold that technology and made squillions. Instead, they were willing to leave it behind on an exploding space station full of their own hostile mechs, because apparently it was just an afterthought.

What reason would anyone have to work with Cerberus other than mindless principle? Because principle is about all they had going for them, and it didn't mean anything when the Reapers finally did show up and everybody except Cerberus was doing something about it.

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

erezike wrote...

Why do you say the politicians of mass effect were incompetent?
On what are you basing this on?

How about backsliding on the Reaper threat just to save face with the galaxy, who already think they're incompent because of how Saren and the geth ripped the Citadel a new one, despite having "the situation under control?"
How about threatening Shepard with charges of treason -- which is usually punishible by execution via death by spacing -- over the Commander's ties with Cerberus, after everything Shepard did for them?
How about keeping the Commander in lock-up and publically scapegoating Shepard and ruining what little reputation he had for the sake of keeping the batarians from causing an uproar?
How about ignoring the Collector attacks and just brushing them off as being pirate attacks?
How about not stopping the krogan incusions that led to the Krogan Rebellions until after the krogan took an asari world?
How about letting Saren go scott-free without any sort of investigation simply because the objecting party was an "unproven race?"
How about their general politics in branding all races not on the Council as "minor races?"

Based on the above -- and a fair amount more -- I'd be more then willing to say that the politicians of ME are some of the most arrogant and incompetent in existance -- hell, a majority of politicians are like that anyway.
What exactally have they done to prove they aren't incompetent is the real question. They don't think practally. They're only concerned with their image in all this -- something that will be completely inconsiqential if the Reapers win.

 not knowing about something doesnt mean it never happened. all your arguments above are based on what they let the public know. did you think the council just happened to know about noveria, feros and virmire?
You are basing your arguments on the basis that everyone are always honest. this is a fallacy

NO, they aren't. They're based on what the Council themselves told me in private. Remember all those private holocomm meetings with them after Noveria, Therum, Feros, Virmire? You know, where everything I did had political ramafications they didn't like -- the rachni situation especally.  Then the meeting in ME2 if you saved them?

And yes, I do, because I told them myself after each mission, and they themselves were the one's that gave me the breifing information about all those worlds to begin with. Hell, they were the ones that found out about Virmire through the STG, remember?

Why are you saying "public knowledge" when everything I've stated was confirmed by Anderson and the Council personally as being the truth in private meetings?. Udina even calls your return to life a "buerucratic nightmare" instead of a miricle. So, I fail to see what you think your point is since the Council has indeed been nothing but incompitent politicians -- that isn't a "fallacy." That's the simple truth. They don't lie to Spectres because they expect them all to suck it up and smile, lest they be given a deathmark. That's the price of being a Spectre. The way they grounded the Normandy in ME1 and how they ridiculed your mental state in ME2 is proof that they don't give a damn about shying away from the truth when it comes to their Black Ops' "suicide soldiers."

[silverexile17s]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

If the politicians had their way in ME1, everyone would be dead, and none of their clout or secrets or whatever else would matter. Funny that for all that back and forth dialogue dealing with the bureaucracy, the galaxy was saved in part by punching the ambassador in the face and breaking into his computer. I love it.

or shepard would have been  grounded and saren would have never been able to get to the council.... many lives would have been saved in the process.  speculations for everyone.

Are you kidding me? If Shepard had been grounded, Saren would have used the Conduit, taken the Citadel and there wouldn't have been anyone on hand to stop him. We would have lost. How the hell is that a "speculation"?

Modifié par silverexile17s, 16 octobre 2013 - 07:11 .

[silverexile17s]

AlexMBrennan wrote...

How about threatening Shepard with charges of treason -- which is usually punishible by execution via death by spacing -- over the Commander's ties with Cerberus, after everything Shepard did for them?

Well, Shepard is guilty of that crime and should have been executed, end of discussion. If Shepard didn't want to get executed for treason then he should have thought of that before committing treason.

How about keeping the Commander in lock-up and publically scapegoating Shepard and ruining what little reputation he had for the sake of keeping the batarians from causing an uproar?

You are right, the Alliance shouldn't have gone soft and executed Shepard instead.

How about letting Saren go scott-free without any sort of investigation simply because the objecting party was an "unproven race?"

When all else fails, make up sh!t - the problem never was Shepard's race but the complete lack of evidence: At the initial hearing, all Shepard had was a garbled fragment of what might well have been a prothean copy of Independence Day (there is a reason archeology is an academic field) and some ad-hominem attacks contributed by Anderson.

They don't think practally

That's exactly where you are wrong - they do think practically and made sensible choices whilst Shepard was jumping to completely unfounded conclusions; this creates a dissonance because you, the player, know that Shepard will be right about everything eventually since he's the protagonist of a Bioware RPG, and this results in you rationalising (I.e. making up reasons why) Shepard's dumb actions are smart, and why the Council is wrong.

1. Saren was too. The Council didn't keep him in lock-up to await the results, now did they? The only reason the Council didn't do it with Shepard was because Anderson threatened to make a scene out of it. And it all stems back to backsliding on the Reapers.

2. Are you kidding me? According to Hackett, the Alliance should be pinning medals on Shepard for what he/she has done. According to both Hackett and Anderson, it's all political BS, and Shepard hasn't done anything to deserve that penalty. Hence why they cover for him/her while the Commander deals with the Collectors.

3. The problem was Shepard's race -- explicitly.  In the meeting with them via holocall after Virmire, the turian Councilor even makes snide remarks about humans being too hot-headed to be Spectres, and after Feros, he says that Shepard would go to any length to save a human colony. Neither Councilor really deny the accusations, and even when humanity becomes a Council Race, they say the matter of human abductions in the Terminus is a "purely human matter" that they won't get involved in -- even though they do for the others (example - Asari world get's taken by krogan, Council acts. The many worlds before that, they just let slide). The Council has a prejudice against any non-Council member race -- calling them junior or minor races.And humans haven't been on the Council long enough for that to fade.

4. No. That's exactally where I'm right. Even when presented with proof of Saren's guilt, they didn't work to fortify their borders. Even when (as Ashley Williams stated) provided with recordings of Saren's voice and confession, they didn't believe the importance of the Conduit -- I'm pretty sure speach analysts could figure out if Saren was lying or not. In ME2, they sit on their rear ends and let the Collectors have free regin on the Terminus, even though they have colonies on the fringe of those systems as well. They spent more time burying the Reaper threat rather then look to see if it was true or not. Even by the time of ME3, it took a damn coup attempt on the Citadel to get them to finally throw their support for the war effort.
They do anything but think practically outside the political definition.

[silverexile17s]

Lhawke wrote...

silverexile17s wrote...

Lhawke wrote...

Shepard herself said "technically I am no longer in the Alliance"
I do not feel she should have been obliged to turn herself in to the Alliance (non arrival play). Besides she has evidence of Anderson meeting with Cerberus. That would be kind of awkward to explain.

I think idea behind the op would have made for a better start to me3. What we got was just so bland.

There was talk was there not before me3 came out, that Shepard would be able to have an anti-alliance stance. I would have loved to have been able to throw those dog tags back at Anderson.

If Shepard doesn't turn himself/herself in, then the Alliance faces war with the batarians. Which could in turn spark conflicts in the Terminus. Tens of thousands are at risk of dying -- it's not about obligation to the Alliance. It's about obligation to innocent lives, and obligation to keeping the many galactic factions from wasting energy on each-other rather then preping for the Reapers. And considering Shepard's own affiliation with Cerberus, the Commander would hardly be in any position say he/she is any more justified. Hell, the only reason Anderson's in contact with Cerberus is to likely make sure you're safe.

Honestly, an Anti-Alliance stance really doesn't make sense now. They've learned the hard way about the Reapers. It's not like there's any reason to be anti-Alliance now that they actually acknowledge the threat.

Roleplaying a Shepard be it paragon renegade or neutral who has had enough of the alliance and it's bs would have made for an interesting playthrough.  I like protaginists to have a choice of character be it good bad or indifferent. Some will forgive and forget, others won't.

A non arrival Shepard has no quarrel with the Batarians and no reason to be hiding from them and no reason to be in lockdown and told "the **** that you've done" and  "thrown away the key" by Anderson. He talks as if Shepard has been a criminal, which was not the case for my non arrival shepard.
For what? saving the terminus colonies from abduction. Working with Cerberus with the knowledge and support of the council and Anderson.  A non arrival shepard should have been able to turn over the Normandy sr2 and been free to leave. This of course would apply to a paragon shepard.

Regardless of whether it makes sense I would have liked my full renegade shepard  to be able to refuse reinstatement and declare "I'm done with the Alliance, I will work with you not for you"  Sounds a bit like the Cerberus deal.

A non-arrival Shepard is still guilty of association with Cerberus, which eventually Anderson and Hackett can't stall out on any longer. Shepard will be requested to face court-martial for his/her actions, and running away will just kill what little rep he/she has left. Be it Arrival or Non-Arrival, running will be taken as the signs of a guilty person, and thus, no one is going to follow Shepard to war. It's a catch 22. Nothing you do is going to make the outcome any better. By turning yourself in, you show that you're at least willing to fight the sentance with an official testimony, even if they don't believe in the Reapers.

Dude, Shepard is a criminal in the Alliance and Council's eyes regardless of the Alpha Relay -- because of your assoication with Cerberus. A human-centric terrorist orginization guilty of multiple xenophobic acts. Association with them alone is enough for court-martial, let alone riding with a crew of criminals (Kasumi, Jack), avowed enemies (Jacob, Miranda, Legion),  mercenaries (Zaeed, Thane), ex-government operatives (Mordin, Garrus), and rouge elements (Samara, Tali, Grunt). And under the pretense of being off the radar, since Anderson and Hackett stalled out the politics. Also, you really think Anderson or Hackett are going to oepnly say they were involved? They'd be corut-martialed too, and then there'd be nobody to get the Alliance prepping for the Reapers.

Cerberus was never going to end well, because they'd be too much like a Renagade Shepard -- use them until they're not useful anymore. And the Renadage Shepard sees that and gets out while he/she can, thus leaving teh Alliance the only one to throw the lot in with -- nobody else has the resources or personel to make this happen.

[KaiserShep]

erezike wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

If the politicians had their way in ME1, everyone would be dead, and none of their clout or secrets or whatever else would matter. Funny that for all that back and forth dialogue dealing with the bureaucracy, the galaxy was saved in part by punching the ambassador in the face and breaking into his computer. I love it.

or shepard would have been  grounded and saren would have never been able to get to the council.... many lives would have been saved in the process.  speculations for everyone.

We can make up whatever we like, but I'm simply going by the actual progression of the story as I've observed. When the Normandy was locked down, Shepard was just sitting around the Normandy and seemingly had no reason to leave the ship, that is, until Anderson goes behind everyone's back and conspires with Shepard to retake the ship and get off the Citadel. So, what is the likeliest outcome of Anderson doing no such thing, that Shepard just randomly decides to suit up and just walk around the Presidium tower for the duration of the lockdown, fully armed, or just waiting in the Normandy, which he/she was doing, until further instruction? Without any knowledge of the fact that the conduit is actually a backdoor to the station, everyone would be blindsided when Saren and his legion of geth, husks and krogan pour through it.

Let's not forget Sovereign. No matter what Shepard or anyone else does, this thing comes through the relay and attacks the Citadel. Let's say that Shepard is fortunate enough to actually be caught on guard when Saren comes through the conduit relay with geth, and somehow manages to kill him, the geth, husks and krogan that come through. There's still the issue of Sovereign, as well as the geth ships that accompany it. Sovereign would still sieze the tower and begin overriding the Prothean sabotage. So a basic outline of this scenario, in which Shepard actually stops Saren, are as follows:

-With Saren thwarted before reaching the tower, Shepard now has no idea where to go
-Without Vigil's data file, it wouldn't matter if Shepard did, because the station's controls would be out of reach
-Sovereign siezes the tower with with no meaningful resistance
-Access to the Widow nebula is now closed, thus blocking off all reinforcements from the Alliance
-With no reinforcements, Sovereign and the geth can now destroy the turian and asari ships at their leisure, killing the council in the process.
-The Normandy is still offline, so is vulnerable to attack, and would most likely be destroyed as well
-Because the Alliance cannot reach the Widow nebula, and Shepard has no idea how to take control over the Citadel, Sovereign has no incentive to assume control over Saren's corpse to fight Shepard, which turns out to be its one real weakness
-Sovereign proceeds to override the Citadel's controls, reactivates the dormant relay, and the reapers begin to pour through
-With the relay network back under their control, the reapers can now get back to business and begin reaping. Game over.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 16 octobre 2013 - 08:34 .

[Erez Kristal]

KaiserShep wrote...
snip

My shepard follows my rules when i was in the army. always keep my gear close unless i was on shore leave and not in times of war.
I assume shepard was near his equipment. assumping my shepard was going to have a good use of his time he would visit shaira or have a cop of cofee in the presiudum. maybe even knock on the council doors. 
We can speculate that with shepard so close he would stop saren before, saren arrival to the citadel tower. 
Like i said speculation.

With the tower secured. forces will reinforce the ctiadel and destroy soveiregn and the geth fleets quickly.
thats just a speculation.

If you are going to follow the line of. that wouldnt have likely happen.

Shepard almost missed using the conduit. what if he did miss it? then everything would be lost. 

Speculations for everyone.

The only way to judge the council decisions is by not looking on the consquences and instead look on the potential consquences.


If you want to make a case for shepard decision to steal the normandy you better use the evidence shepard had at hand when he/she stole it