518 réponses à ce sujet

[AndyAK79]

KaiserShep wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

It is an attack on an unsolicited mod and it's creators, who are in breach of their copyright agreement with Bioware.

This claim is not to be taken as gospel unless it can be backed up with something more substantial. Modifying software for personal use, software that you also happen to own, could very well fall under fair use and would not be subject to penalties in court, again, unless you can prove otherwise. I would chance a guess that if BioWare, for whatever reason, became inclined to take the creator of this mod to court, the suit would probably fail as well as become a PR disaster.

I doubt very much that this is the case. The law is reasonably clear (it has to be) that whilst the physical hardware belongs to you the code is the property of the creators. This protects the intellectual rights of the creators. If the code was your property you would, for example, be able to copy it at will. You cannot do so because you do not own it. Altering something you do not own clearly infringes on the rights of the actual owner. The nearest analogy in non-copyright law would probably be vandalism.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 12 octobre 2013 - 12:48 .

[Mangalores]

dreamgazer wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

The Night Mammoth wrote...

What is Synthesis and what exactly are its consequences? 

Synthesis is the ending in which everybody becomes half machine. The consequences are that everybody ends up half machine. I'm not saying that everything is explained in every tiny detail (do you have to recharge yourself off the mains? Take yourself for an MOT every three years) but the consequences for the galaxy and those there in are reasonably clear.

You'd likely find a good number of Synthesis supporters, intelligent ones, who would think your interpretation and broad "half machine" label is inaccurate. And there are far more questions about the way the world works post-Synthesis---about ideology, biology, technology, awareness of the past, the works---than the ones you posed.

The problem is that it is based on a bogus idea which is the entire machine vs organics conflict and pretty much mangles standard science and common sense to get it to work. On second thought it also doesn't solve any of the things it suggests it does. It's as clear as saying we all will rise to heaven.

In any other story the problems of Man vs. Machine is quite interesting, particularly when we look at bionics and the development of AI. It just doesn't work here, particularly where and when it's placed.

There might have been a way if it had been made clearer that the Reaper sludge processing plants are _their_ attempt at this and it is made clear that the only way to "win" is to convince the Reapers of a new solution at this. If it's however neither something the protagonist nor antagonist actually want or thought of before the finale, it's just random. 

[Mangalores]

AndyAK79 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

It is an attack on an unsolicited mod and it's creators, who are in breach of their copyright agreement with Bioware.

This claim is not to be taken as gospel unless it can be backed up with something more substantial. Modifying software for personal use, software that you also happen to own, could very well fall under fair use and would not be subject to penalties in court, again, unless you can prove otherwise. I would chance a guess that if BioWare, for whatever reason, became inclined to take the creator of this mod to court, the suit would probably fail as well as become a PR disaster.

I doubt very much that this is the case. The law is reasonably clear (it has to be) that whilst the physical hardware belongs to you the code is the property of the creators. This protects the intellectual rights of the creators. If the code was your property you would, for example, be able to copy it at will. You cannot do so because you do not own it. Altering something you do not own clearly infringes on the rights of the actual owner. The nearest analogy in non-copyright law would probably be vandalism.

You can and do copy code when installing a game all the time. You just can't give that code to anyone else. That already happens if you move your installed game from one hard disc to another. You are the owner of the code by it being on your computer and you having bought it. You don't have distribution rights which is what the intellectual rights are about.
Otherwise you'd be banned from reading the books you bought since you would gain knowledge of what the author wrote but you are not allowed to know or fiddle with it which is impossible.

[RatThing]

AndyAK79 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

It is an attack on an unsolicited mod and it's creators, who are in breach of their copyright agreement with Bioware.

This claim is not to be taken as gospel unless it can be backed up with something more substantial. Modifying software for personal use, software that you also happen to own, could very well fall under fair use and would not be subject to penalties in court, again, unless you can prove otherwise. I would chance a guess that if BioWare, for whatever reason, became inclined to take the creator of this mod to court, the suit would probably fail as well as become a PR disaster.

I doubt very much that this is the case. The law is reasonably clear (it has to be) that whilst the physical hardware belongs to you the code is the property of the creators. This protects the intellectual rights of the creators. If the code was your property you would, for example, be able to copy it at will. You cannot do so because you do not own it. Altering something you do not own clearly infringes on the rights of the actual owner. The nearest analogy in non-copyright law would probably be vandalism.

Leave it to Bioware to defend their rights. As far as I'm concerned, modders can do whatever they like since I can avoid this by not using the mod.  For me as a player what matters is what's in the vanilla game, what can't be avoided.

Modifié par RatThing, 12 octobre 2013 - 01:42 .

[KaiserShep]

AndyAK79 wrote...
I doubt very much that this is the case. The law is reasonably clear (it has to be) that whilst the physical hardware belongs to you the code is the property of the creators. This protects the intellectual rights of the creators. If the code was your property you would, for example, be able to copy it at will. You cannot do so because you do not own it. Altering something you do not own clearly infringes on the rights of the actual owner. The nearest analogy in non-copyright law would probably be vandalism.

It's not that simple. Simply owning the code does not actually preclude others from creating modifications to it when they license the product, and it must first be determined whether or not MEHEM is a derivative work that does not fall under fair use before outright accusing the modders of breaching their contract with BioWare. Had the modders actually gone out and started trying to distribute MEHEM commercially as though it's an authorized product (see Micro Star v FormGen) , then that would be a different story. Take, for example, Galoob v. Nintendo. Nintendo tried to stop Galoob from selling Game Genie, a product that modified the game to make the character invincible. It was determined that this mod did not infringe upon Nintendo's copyright, and they lost the suit.

Altering a product you license in and of itself does not infringe upon the rights of the owner of the intellectual property, and is not analagous to vandalism, which actually imposes a real cost to remedy. That would be like saying I am violating the rights of a publisher if I redact the pages of the book on my shelf.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 12 octobre 2013 - 01:56 .

[AndyAK79]

Mangalores wrote...

You can and do copy code when installing a game all the time. You just can't give that code to anyone else. That already happens if you move your installed game from one hard disc to another. You are the owner of the code by it being on your computer and you having bought it. You don't have distribution rights which is what the intellectual rights are about.
Otherwise you'd be banned from reading the books you bought since you would gain knowledge of what the author wrote but you are not allowed to know or fiddle with it which is impossible.

You can and do copy code because you are allowed to do so under your copyright agreement. 

You are in no sense the owner of the code just because you have bought it. You effectively buy a license to use the code rather than the code itself. This is the law in the US, the UK and every country in Europe apart, I believe, from Italy. Arguing about this will not make it any less true unless you are an Italian - in which case it is still true for the majority of users on this forum.

Your example of a book is absurd. Reading a book does not alter what it contains any more than looking through a showroom window customises a car.

Your point about distribution also applies because mods are distributed and contain parts of the code. The fact no payment is recieved is not relevant. If I distribute the contents of your house I have commited a crime whether or not I recieve payment because they are not mine to distribute.

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

GreatBlueHeron wrote...

"MEHEM is a travesty designed by people who can't handle being asked to make grown up or difficult choices, so throw the rattle out of the pram and rewrite the end to suit them."

OP, that is an attack.

It is an attack on an unsolicited mod and it's creators, who are in breach of their copyright agreement with Bioware. As such, I do not believe it violates the rules of this forum, although I am happy to defer to the wisdom of the moderators.

It's an attack, and a vicious one.  You're telling us  MEHEM is bad, so bad it is or should be illegal.  And everyone who derives enjoyment from it are bad people who should feel bad.  Blahblahblah. 

But I can see there's no talking to you, so whatever.  I'm going to keep using it, because it makes ME3 playable.  And if Bioware is smart, they'll take notice of that.  Rather than, you know, belittling us, what we enjoy, our intelligence, etc.

[Deverz]

If Bioware had a problem with people using MEHEM, I'm sure they would have said so by now.

[Iakus]

Deverz wrote...

If Bioware had a problem with people using MEHEM, I'm sure they would have said so by now.

Bioware's stance on MEHEM and modding in general

Basically, single player modding is fine, (though "use at your own risk") As long as it doesn't affect multiplayer, they don't care.

[AndyAK79]

Bioware have said they don't mind you modifying your SP files, which is generous of them, but doesn't change the law. This is still very different from distributing an unauthorized mod

My posts have attacked no-one on this forum. They referenced only the product and it's creators. If you use the product I might suggest your taste is poor, but no more than that.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:53 .

[AlanC9]

AndyAK79 wrote...

Bioware have said they don't mind you modifying your SP files, which is generous of them, but doesn't change the law. This is still very different from distributing an unauthorized mod.

Are you saying that Bio really is bothered by people distributing unauthorized mods? On what evidence?

[dreamgazer]

MEHEM has pushed a few extra sales of the PC version for those that need it. I doubt they give a pyjak's ass at this point, especially since it seems like they know where they're going with the next game.

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

My posts have attacked no-one on this forum. They referenced only the product and it's creators.

 
Okay, so now that we've established you have in fact attacked people here...

If you use the product I might suggest your taste is poor, but no more than that.

How generous of you.

[AndyAK79]

AlanC9 wrote...

AndyAK79 wrote...

Bioware have said they don't mind you modifying your SP files, which is generous of them, but doesn't change the law. This is still very different from distributing an unauthorized mod.

Are you saying that Bio really is bothered by people distributing unauthorized mods? On what evidence?

No, I'm not, and I never have.

It doesn't change my criticism of MEHEM, and it doesn't change the reality of copyright law. You are, not for the first time, attributing something to me different than what was actually said.

[Deverz]

Why does this concern you so much? The thread for MEHEM has been up for a year, Bioware has taken no action. So really, OP, stop with the nonsense.

[AlanC9]

So what's the point? Even if distributing MEHEM is a technical violation of the DMCA, or the EULA, or so forth.... who the hell cares?

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 octobre 2013 - 05:34 .

[AndyAK79]

AlanC9 wrote...

So what's the point? Even if distributing MEHEM is a technical violation of the DMCA, or the EUKA, or so forth.... who the hell cares?

I stopped caring sometime ago. If anyone could get the discusion back on track, they would officialy be my hero of the day.

[Iakus]

AlanC9 wrote...

So what's the point? Even if distributing MEHEM is a technical violation of the DMCA, or the EUKA, or so forth.... who the hell cares?

Because it's not enough to say "I don't like it, here's why"  You have to imply using the mod makes you a criminal

[AlanC9]

He should have just stuck with the bad taste thing.

Modifié par AlanC9, 12 octobre 2013 - 05:35 .

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

So what's the point? Even if distributing MEHEM is a technical violation of the DMCA, or the EUKA, or so forth.... who the hell cares?

I stopped caring sometime ago. If anyone could get the discusion back on track, they would officialy be my hero of the day.

Wish granted:

The high price all the endings required combined with no definitive "Shepard lives" ending (with all too many definitive "Shepard deis" endings) prevented many players from finding the closure to teh trilogy they desired. 

As such, they have had to look elsewhere:  be it mods, fanfictions like Marauder Shields, fan videos, etc.  Hopefully Bioware learned from their terrible mistake.

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Hopefully Bioware learned from their terrible mistake.

Here's hoping they didn't "learn" too much from the petulant reaction and some of the suggested power-trip substitutes.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

Hopefully Bioware learned from their terrible mistake.

Here's hoping they didn't "learn" too much from the petulant reaction and some of the suggested power-trip substitutes.

How about we split the difference and hope they actually allow for true variety next time?

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

iakus wrote...

Hopefully Bioware learned from their terrible mistake.

Here's hoping they didn't "learn" too much from the petulant reaction and some of the suggested power-trip substitutes.

How about we split the difference and hope they actually allow for true variety next time?

No argument there.

More variety is always a good thing, even if ME's endings have always been lacking in observable plot-relevant variety.

[Iakus]

[quote]dreamgazer wrote...

How about we split the difference and hope they actually allow for true variety next time?[/quote]

No argument there.

More variety is always a good thing, even if ME's endings have always been lacking in observable plot-relevant variety.[/quote]

If the different endings actually invoke a range of emotions with a sliding scale of "bitter" and "sweet" players will likely forgive plot-relevant variety

[AndyAK79]

If the endings had such a scale everyone would want the sweet ending. The choice would be meaningless.

The only way to do as you suggest would be to have a single, happy ending.

These arguments seem to revolve, yet again, around the idea that anything other than a complete victory is in sime way a betrayal of player's effort. It would have been easy for the writers to do so, but I think the game is stronger for having a more challenging choice and not taking the easy way out.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 12 octobre 2013 - 07:30 .