Like I said, it's the end of the trilogy. It was clear from the start that the sacrifice would be bigger this time. If you can't stomach that, too bad. But you can't blame them for being consistent in this point. "Hard choises" was supposed to be a main aspect of the game.iakus wrote...
RatThing wrote...
iakus wrote...
In addition, triggering a synthetic holocaust is not the kind of "closure" I want after five years and three games. Not that the other endings are any better (worse for me, actually)
You should have paid attention to the other 2 games. There is no ending to a mass effect game without sacrifice. It's only logical that the finale of the trilogy has the greatest one.
I paid plenty of attention. I daresay I probably played ME1 at least, more than you did.
First two games, the price demanded was worth the outcome. The third made me feel Shepard became a worse character than Saren at his darkest.
The endings and the issue of closure
Débuté par
AndyAK79
, oct. 09 2013 11:56
#376
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 05:54
RatThing
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Retour en haut
#377
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:02
Iakus
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RatThing wrote...
Like I said, it's the end of the trilogy. It was clear from the start that the sacrifice would be bigger this time. If you can't stomach that, too bad. But you can't blame them for being consistent in this point. "Hard choises" was supposed to be a main aspect of the game.
There's big, then there's too big. And I can and will certainly blame them for that. I came to play Mass Effect, not Saw: The RPG
#378
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:10
RatThing
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iakus wrote...
RatThing wrote...
Like I said, it's the end of the trilogy. It was clear from the start that the sacrifice would be bigger this time. If you can't stomach that, too bad. But you can't blame them for being consistent in this point. "Hard choises" was supposed to be a main aspect of the game.
There's big, then there's too big. And I can and will certainly blame them for that. I came to play Mass Effect, not Saw: The RPG
Be grateful then that the supposedly leaked ending never came true. Would "allow the reapers harvest humanity or let the galaxy slowly decay through dark matter" be a better ending for you?
As for me, an ending with anything but a galaxy wide impact would be just insulting given the dimension of the menace you're dealing with.
#379
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:23
zed888
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I can't blame them for hard choices, but I can blame them for absurd choices.RatThing wrote...
...
But you can't blame them for being consistent in this point. "Hard choises" was supposed to be a main aspect of the game.
#380
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:49
Reorte
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ME1: Just Virmire.RatThing wrote...
iakus wrote...
In addition, triggering a synthetic holocaust is not the kind of "closure" I want after five years and three games. Not that the other endings are any better (worse for me, actually)
You should have paid attention to the other 2 games. There is no ending to a mass effect game without sacrifice. It's only logical that the finale of the trilogy has the greatest one.
ME2: Can get through it without losing anyone or anything
ME3: Contrived nonsense for the sake of it and not because it occurred organically from what was going on in the story.
I've said it before and will say it again. "Sacrifice" beyond expected wartime losses, which should be variable depending upon a playthrough anyway, are nonsense.
#381
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:50
BeastSaver
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Never mind. Wrong thread.
Modifié par BeastSaver, 14 octobre 2013 - 06:52 .
#382
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:50
Reorte
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It's just as well that no-one is asking for an extra ten minutes going on about what Shepard might do in the future then, isn't it? If you think that's what people who are complaining about closure are going on about then you should look again (it's not as if it hasn't been explained often enough).AndyAK79 wrote...
I agree. The endings bring Shepard's story to a close. I can't see how an extra ten minutes of fine detail would add much quality-wise, and I prefer the ever-after to be left to my imagination. Name one story in any medium that explains the hero's whole life story at the end.
Also, skipping would be bad.
#383
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:52
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Liquify someone and they're not going to be experiencing anything after that, any more than a cow is aware of its new existence as a leather jacket and a few dozen beefburgers.BeastSaver wrote...
The thing I find abhorrent about keeping the Collector base is that the human minds/bodies that have been liquefied and injected into the brain are forced to live in this new existence, if you can call it that.
#384
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 06:58
dreamgazer
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Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
ME2: Can get through it without losing anyone or anything
True, unless you want to get "philosophical" about the Collector Base decision.
#385
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 07:00
JamesFaith
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Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
Modifié par JamesFaith, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:00 .
#386
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 07:08
GreyLycanTrope
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I don't count that one as on the same scale. Bunch of faceless alliance mooks/as*hat politicians hardly compares to an entire form of existance.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
Modifié par Greylycantrope, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:13 .
#387
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 07:14
RatThing
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dreamgazer wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.ME2: Can get through it without losing anyone or anything
True, unless you want to get "philosophical" about the Collector Base decision.
Exactly what I've meant. And I'd say the negative side of the control ending is even more "philosophical" than the collector base. I mean if your Shepard is such a good guy, (s)he or his/her AI should know when to intervene in galactic affairs and when to hold off. If (s)he doesn't believe in dictatorships there will be no dictatorship. Now if the choices are perceived as ridiculous, that's another story but I hope the alternative isn't supposed to be a conventional victory. That'd be more ridiculous.
Modifié par RatThing, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:21 .
#388
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 07:20
adayaday
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With enough polish it could have been better.RatThing wrote...
Be grateful then that the supposedly leaked ending never came true. Would "allow the reapers harvest humanity or let the galaxy slowly decay through dark matter" be a better ending for you?
You can say the same about the current ending though...
OT
At what stage the DE plot was when it was droped?
Modifié par adayaday, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:33 .
#389
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 07:30
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The Ascension/Alliance dichtomy is not about sacrifice of characters, but whether you're willing to sacrifice human lives to save the galaxy. I think it's a helluva lot more important than Virmire, even if the elements involved are faceless. It plays into the overarching themes of humanity's place in the galaxy more than Ashley/Kaidan does. It may not be as difficult, since it isn't personalized, but the ideals behind it should be difficult nonetheless.. if you care about MEU's themes at all.
Personally, I'm only willing to fight for the galaxy's safety. Fight. Not necessarily die. To hell with sacrifice. I kind of see my ME gaming experience as a prolonged battle with the idea of sacrifice.. Like, just how much can I get done without sacrificing humans?
I made a thread awhile back how the series puts sacrifice on a pedestal.. as if it's some noble thing to live up to in and of itself. That might work for Turians, but I don't think it's always the human thing to do. I like to play Shep in a way who tries to defy that.. He's a "Sole Survivor" and keeps trying for ways to get others to survive as well. I feel like humanity is too young to be called for these tremendous acts.. They've only been in space for less than 50 years, and they want to play up all of these sacrificial themes like everything depends on humans. Screw that. I think humanity deserves a chance to get it's bearings and find it's identity first. Not die. We're already short lived as it is compared to some of these races.
Last but not least, Wrex provides a real warning sign of what happens to folks who tried their best to be heroes for the Council. The Krogan saved the galaxy, and got neutered for it.
Ahem.. so yeah, the Council decision is kind of important to me. Don't mean to get too longwinded.
Personally, I'm only willing to fight for the galaxy's safety. Fight. Not necessarily die. To hell with sacrifice. I kind of see my ME gaming experience as a prolonged battle with the idea of sacrifice.. Like, just how much can I get done without sacrificing humans?
I made a thread awhile back how the series puts sacrifice on a pedestal.. as if it's some noble thing to live up to in and of itself. That might work for Turians, but I don't think it's always the human thing to do. I like to play Shep in a way who tries to defy that.. He's a "Sole Survivor" and keeps trying for ways to get others to survive as well. I feel like humanity is too young to be called for these tremendous acts.. They've only been in space for less than 50 years, and they want to play up all of these sacrificial themes like everything depends on humans. Screw that. I think humanity deserves a chance to get it's bearings and find it's identity first. Not die. We're already short lived as it is compared to some of these races.
Last but not least, Wrex provides a real warning sign of what happens to folks who tried their best to be heroes for the Council. The Krogan saved the galaxy, and got neutered for it.
Ahem.. so yeah, the Council decision is kind of important to me. Don't mean to get too longwinded.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:38 .
#390
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 08:09
Vicious
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I was actually fine with the original sopranos-esque ending of WTF just happened... and expected Bioware to say that Shepard saved the galaxy by uniting it to face the common foe and they triumphed. Him being alive/dead/husked whatever after the final charge was irrelevant to that victory. After all, the game (me2, ME3) loved to bludgeon you over the head and shoulders about how you are really just one guy and can't do everything yourself.
Then they did the extended cut, added the refusal ending and threw all that out the window and closed the book on the series progressing beyond that point.
sad
Then they did the extended cut, added the refusal ending and threw all that out the window and closed the book on the series progressing beyond that point.
sad
Modifié par Vicious, 14 octobre 2013 - 08:14 .
#391
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 08:17
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Yeah, I didn't play until a few months ago, and started ME3 with the Extended Cut, but I actually prefer the open-endedness/mystery of the original. At least then, they could sit down and think of ever revisiting this timeline again. I just don't think it's possible with the EC now.
I think the Priority Earth level needed to be revamped far more than the final ending. To me, that's the main thing that sucks about the ending.
I think the Priority Earth level needed to be revamped far more than the final ending. To me, that's the main thing that sucks about the ending.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 14 octobre 2013 - 08:21 .
#392
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 08:22
zed888
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If not for the refuse ending I'd have uninstalled the EC. Doesn't really matter though since I haven't played to the end since.
#393
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 08:28
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There's no tactical reason for hanging back, the only reason for doing so is to strengthen humanity's hand by letting more Council ships get shot up. Overall losses should be fewer if you send the Alliance in ASAP, although proportionally more would be Alliance. After all it's not as if the geth that are attacking the DA won't join in with the rest of the battle after it's been destroyed.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
The only sacrifice involved there is the DA to strengthen the Alliance. Alliance ships that get lost are straightforward casualties of war rather than sacrifices (there's a difference).
#394
Guest_StreetMagic_*
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 08:46
Guest_StreetMagic_*
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Reorte wrote...
There's no tactical reason for hanging back, the only reason for doing so is to strengthen humanity's hand by letting more Council ships get shot up. Overall losses should be fewer if you send the Alliance in ASAP, although proportionally more would be Alliance. After all it's not as if the geth that are attacking the DA won't join in with the rest of the battle after it's been destroyed.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
The only sacrifice involved there is the DA to strengthen the Alliance. Alliance ships that get lost are straightforward casualties of war rather than sacrifices (there's a difference).
The Alliance isn't even a Council race at that point. They're not obligated to save anyone there. Doing so is what makes it a sacrifice. It's a pretty huge, meaningful act if you do it.
Modifié par StreetMagic, 14 octobre 2013 - 08:48 .
#395
Posté 14 octobre 2013 - 09:37
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No, but stopping Sovereign is as important for the Alliance as it is for everyone else, and whilst they're not full members with a seat on the Council they're certainly involved. If the Alliance is going to go in at all they should go in straight away unless the plan is to gain power by everyone else being weakened, which is tactically dangerous (works out if both sides significantly weaken each other but might end up with you having to fight more on your own). Even normal enemies like the USA and USSR didn't try to (obviously, at any rate) let the other side get weakened to bolster their own post-war position during the Second World War, and the Alliance is on better terms with the Council than that.StreetMagic wrote...
The Alliance isn't even a Council race at that point. They're not obligated to save anyone there. Doing so is what makes it a sacrifice. It's a pretty huge, meaningful act if you do it.
It's also war losses, not a sacrifice. As I said they're not the same thing. Committing forces knowing that you'll almost certainly lose some of them isn't sacrificing them. Knowing you'll lose most or all of them usually is.
#396
Posté 15 octobre 2013 - 05:30
AndyAK79
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Greylycantrope wrote...
I don't count that one as on the same scale. Bunch of faceless alliance mooks/as*hat politicians hardly compares to an entire form of existance.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
Its amazing how easy it is to win an argument if you create special categories for anything that contradicts what you are saying.
Modifié par AndyAK79, 15 octobre 2013 - 05:31 .
#397
Posté 15 octobre 2013 - 06:07
Reorte
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Sounds better than lumping everything into the same category and over-generalising to a crazy degree as a result.AndyAK79 wrote...
Greylycantrope wrote...
I don't count that one as on the same scale. Bunch of faceless alliance mooks/as*hat politicians hardly compares to an entire form of existance.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
Its amazing how easy it is to win an argument if you create special categories for anything that contradicts what you are saying.
#398
Posté 15 octobre 2013 - 06:42
sH0tgUn jUliA
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StreetMagic wrote...
Reorte wrote...
There's no tactical reason for hanging back, the only reason for doing so is to strengthen humanity's hand by letting more Council ships get shot up. Overall losses should be fewer if you send the Alliance in ASAP, although proportionally more would be Alliance. After all it's not as if the geth that are attacking the DA won't join in with the rest of the battle after it's been destroyed.JamesFaith wrote...
Reorte wrote...
ME1: Just Virmire.
What about Destiny Ascencion choice?
The only sacrifice involved there is the DA to strengthen the Alliance. Alliance ships that get lost are straightforward casualties of war rather than sacrifices (there's a difference).
The Alliance isn't even a Council race at that point. They're not obligated to save anyone there. Doing so is what makes it a sacrifice. It's a pretty huge, meaningful act if you do it.
I find it interesting that people are only thinking about "the Council" with the Destiny Ascension, and neglecting the fact that there are 10,000 Asari crew on it, plus whatever number of civilians they were able to evacuate from the Citadel. And there was really only one ass on the Council -- the Turian. Garrus was about the only Turian I liked in the story anyway. Forces would have been sent to save it even though some of them would have died. The Asari were allies.
The "Focus on Sovereign" (neutral) is really let them die but I tried.
Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 15 octobre 2013 - 06:47 .
#399
Posté 15 octobre 2013 - 06:44
KaiserShep
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Hey now, Victus ain't bad, and of course, the turian bartender that let Shepard destroy his/her insides with ryncol. That guy doesn't get in the way of a good party.
Modifié par KaiserShep, 15 octobre 2013 - 06:45 .
#400
Posté 15 octobre 2013 - 06:46
clarkusdarkus
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Well personally im still at 1 playthrough so my memory of ME3 is shepard lying under some rubble an being told to further that mans legacy under the rubble with dlc.......No exactly closure no matter how many slides they wanna show.
