518 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

[Steelcan]

alliance commander wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

The issue with the ending was NOT a lack of closure, if the ending had been reworked to be lore friendly and narratively coherent, closure issues would still be voiced, but the furor that we got would no have happened.

That is why the ending sucks, its a narrative mess. Half-assed "reveals", exposition dump (by who is by all rights the antagonist of the series), and a complete lack of importance given to past choices that should have played heavily in the ending to the whole series.

This jarring nature is what I think caused so many people to get angry, they knew that the ending was poorly executed on every level and got angry (rightly so). Closure for the characters is really low on the list of things that i really care about. And really, there is no closure for characters like Garrus or Liara, but I don't see people continuously complaining about it.

I believe that if the ending had delivered a lore consistent and narratively consistent ending, with input from prior choices in the series, the ending would have been much better received. Closure really is not that important.

The Lack of Closure was not the only thing dissapointing. Every ending was pretty much the same to me just with different colors.  Ending shepards story in the most insulting way ever is what made me mad.

"most insulting way ever" is what I call Refuse.

[Steelcan]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

[Seboist]

Steelcan wrote...

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

Hell if I know and if it did, it begs the question why it wasn't in the core game.

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

Or similar to using the collected minerals in ME2 in tandem with the upgrades.  

I agree, but at the very least the paramount battle assets should have added variety to the final push through London. 

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

Sorta, yeah. You could appoint fighter forces across the galaxy and boost your readiness.  After I got burned out on MP (which was relatively quick), I kept it up for a month or two with that.

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

Sorta, yeah. You could appoint fighter forces across the galaxy and boost your readiness.  After I got burned out on MP (which was relatively quick), I kept it up for a month or two with that.

I echo Seboist, that could have been implemeted in the main game instead of planet scanning and Reaper chases

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

Sorta, yeah. You could appoint fighter forces across the galaxy and boost your readiness.  After I got burned out on MP (which was relatively quick), I kept it up for a month or two with that.

I echo Seboist, that could have been implemeted in the main game instead of planet scanning and Reaper chases

Ugh, those obnoxious Pac-Man chases ... almost forgot about those. 

[Seboist]

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

Or similar to using the collected minerals in ME2 in tandem with the upgrades.  

I agree, but at the very least the paramount battle assets should have added variety to the final push through London. 

Would have been nice to have the Quarian ships as fire support in London. Perhaps even as an alternate means to take out the hades canon with that laser designator.

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Ugh, those obnoxious Pac-Man chases ... almost forgot about those. 

You don't even have to bother with those.  The game autosaves whenever you enter a system.  So Groundhog Day it and just keep scanning til you find everything.

[Seboist]

What I would do in the pac-man sections was just exit the system and then position the normandy in the direction closest to the scanned item.

[dreamgazer]

Seboist wrote...

What I would do in the pac-man sections was just exit the system and then position the normandy in the direction closest to the scanned item.

Yeah, same here. Still annoying, evne once you figured out the loophole. 

[ruggly]

dreamgazer wrote...

Kel, we're not in disagreement really, but I would definitely prefer something like the choice we were given in ME3's ending above an even more implausible power-trip rehash of other stories---ones that were hard to believe in their own right.

It just needed to be more coherent, restrained, and less ... uh, mystical.

This is about how I feel about the endings at this point.  I don't mind that there are choices, but I don't feel that they were implemented in a good way, in that I don't think it's necessary to close Shepard's story by killing them in 3/4 endings.

Modifié par ruggly, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:03 .

[Redbelle]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Didn't they play with this idea in that failed app?

Sorta, yeah. You could appoint fighter forces across the galaxy and boost your readiness.  After I got burned out on MP (which was relatively quick), I kept it up for a month or two with that.

I echo Seboist, that could have been implemeted in the main game instead of planet scanning and Reaper chases

Ugh, those obnoxious Pac-Man chases ... almost forgot about those. 

If only they had gone with a battleships approach.

Ping to locate Reaper direction. Fly in other direction. Ping again and find they have moved from where they were. Maybe even fire +5 Awesome torpedo's to blow them out of space when you've progressed through the game enough to have learnt the mechanics of Reaper avoidance.

Then discover that the game turns the game of avoidance into a game of battle.... or incapacitation..... or slowdown. Maybe with mine fields!

[Redbelle]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

This.

What you earn in a BW game needs to be usable in some capacity in a player interactive manner.

It's where their games, before ME3, were going. ME3 took a step back from this approach and suffered for it.

[AlanC9]

iakus wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Ugh, those obnoxious Pac-Man chases ... almost forgot about those. 

You don't even have to bother with those.  The game autosaves whenever you enter a system.  So Groundhog Day it and just keep scanning til you find everything.

Yeah, that works, but this is one of those cheating methods that seems more time-consuming than just playing the game. Assuming minimal player competence, of course.

Modifié par AlanC9, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:09 .

[AndyAK79]

CronoDragoon wrote...

Because it's still a question mark in the minds of players, so since it didn't produce actual concete consequences in the game, there essentially are none. The player can headcanon that nothing bad happens, or at least isn't confronted with the downside to their actions. Similar to those who have no issues whatsoever about curing the genophage.

Surely you can headcanon anything,in any game, not just Dragon Age. After the control ending Shepard built a new body but unfortunately developed a severe addiction to petrol and burst into flames after sneaking a crafty cig. After the destroy ending Shepard underwent a sex change and lived happily ever after performing in a semi-succesful drag act.

I don't see how it's harder to imagine a happy ending for Mass Effect than it is for Dragon Age.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:19 .

[Iakus]

AndyAK79 wrote...

Surely you can headcanon anything,in any game, not just Dragon Age. After the control ending Shepard built a new body but unfortunately developed a severe addiction to petrol and burst into flames after sneaking a crafty cig. After the destroy ending Shepard underwent a sex change and lived happily ever after performing in a semi-succesful drag act.

I don't see how it's harder to imagine a happy ending for Mass Effect than it is for Dragon Age.

Except

Control, Synthesis and 3099 or less Destroy make it absolutely clear that Shepard dies

Control shows the Reapers take over the galaxy
Synthesis shows that it is, in fact, forced on everyone
Destroy makes it abundantly clear that EDI and the geth die
Refuse does everything but laugh in your face at your stupidity for choosing it.

So yeah, the most horrific aspects of the endings cannot simply be headcanoned away.  Or at least, I haven't been shot in the head enough times for that to work for me

[CronoDragoon]

That's not really the type of headcanon I was discussing. The type of headcanon I was discussing is either a yes or no proposition: does something bad happen as a result of your choice? For the genophage and DR you are forced to say you don't know. The player has the power to pretend the answer is no, and it is a reasonable answer.

[AndyAK79]

StreetMagic wrote...

Now progression and completion is strictly about the dictates of writers. I think that sets a bad precedent, for an interactive medium.

No, forcing artistic decisions to be decided by public opinion would set a bad precedent.

I like artists and writers to be free to decide what goes into their work (even if it turns out badly). I have no desire to live in some terrifying X-factor version of artistic communism.

[AndyAK79]

CronoDragoon wrote...

That's not really the type of headcanon I was discussing. The type of headcanon I was discussing is either a yes or no proposition: does something bad happen as a result of your choice? For the genophage and DR you are forced to say you don't know. The player has the power to pretend the answer is no, and it is a reasonable answer.

It doesn't really matter what type of headcanon you are talking about, you are talking about headcanon. I can't discuss the contents of your head.

Modifié par AndyAK79, 09 octobre 2013 - 09:34 .

[Obadiah]

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

You won't see a bit of disagreement from me about whether the war assets needed to be (better) visualized.

War assets needed to be tangible in some manner not just visualized. Whether it's Krogan troops actually fighting alongside you in battle ala the various factions in the battle of Denerim at the end of DA:O and/or some kind of Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker-esque strategy mini-game where you can utilitize them to do various things(research gear, to battle in some other part of the galaxy,etc).

Or similar to using the collected minerals in ME2 in tandem with the upgrades.  

I agree, but at the very least the paramount battle assets should have added variety to the final push through London. 

Would have been nice to have the Quarian ships as fire support in London. Perhaps even as an alternate means to take out the hades canon with that laser designator.

I used multiplayer to visualize my war assets in action all over the galaxy.

Modifié par Obadiah, 10 octobre 2013 - 01:54 .

[David7204]

Even in the case best scenario, with the benefit of hindsight on my side, I seriously doubt it would be possible to integrate more than maybe 4 or 5 choices into the final battle.

That's just reality. This is a trilogy lasting over 100 hours. Trying to pack every character and every choice in 30 minutes is just going to churn out a total mess.

So no. I don't approve of having a sequence for all 20 or so squadmates. It would stop becoming cool and start becoming an assembly line very quickly. I don't particularly approve of trying to show each of the dozen or so species.

Modifié par David7204, 10 octobre 2013 - 02:04 .

[Eterna]

Kel Riever wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...

Tell me, was the ending of Dragon Age: Origin "phoning it in"?

No, and neither was ME3. KOTOR's was, though.

ME3 compared to DAO

Let's see, the ending(s) of ME3 sucked, and the endings of DAO were awesome.

Goes to show me that a Boss Fight is also not necessary to enjoy a game or make it better if it already sucks.

Though if you gotta be bad at what you do, again, give me the boss fight.

I liked the outcome of DA:O endings. But the ending of DA:O has one of the most convoluted and stupid plot contrivance I've ever seen. The Old god baby and the ritual. It was just so stupid and random, and you need to under take it to survive. 

[Iakus]

Eterna5 wrote...

I liked the outcome of DA:O endings. But the ending of DA:O has one of the most convoluted and stupid plot contrivance I've ever seen. The Old god baby and the ritual. It was just so stupid and random, and you need to under take it to survive. 

Actually you don't need to.

And it's no more convoluted than the Crucible's functions.