77 réponses à ce sujet

[leaguer of one]

ragewin wrote...

Feynriel looks more half-elf than human to me, due to facial structure. Also why would the Dalish accept him?

To elfs he looks more human the elf.
Also, the keeper is the only one to accept him. The rest of the clan not so much.

Modifié par leaguer of one, 10 octobre 2013 - 04:08 .

[leaguer of one]

cjones91 wrote...

elvici wrote...

drome34 wrote...

So elves are like white people?

  Only white people in America. Believe it or not, most people outside the States don't reflexively label themselves according to their racial phenotype. 

All ethnic groups label themselves based on their race.

Which is why carcasans outside of the US don't label themselves as white people. They split themselves off even more. People will call themselve walsh, irishe, dutch, and german over calling themselves white people.

[bubs]

leaguer of one wrote...

ragewin wrote...

Feynriel looks more half-elf than human to me, due to facial structure. Also why would the Dalish accept him?

To elfs he looks more human the elf.
Also, the keeper is the only one to accept him. The rest of the clan not so much.

Not my point. OP stated human + elf = human, but Feynriel looks half elf. I was saying if he was indeed human, why would (even) Marethari accept him?

[Br3admax]

Han Shot First wrote...

Technically interracial children don't exist in Thedas.

A child born from a union between a human and an elf for example, will always be 100% human. Think of the humans as the Asari of Thedas. They can mate with any sapient species, but the children are always human.

Of course there are still sub groups inside of the races. 

[elvici]

leaguer of one wrote...

cjones91 wrote...
All ethnic groups label themselves based on their race.

Which is why carcasans outside of the US don't label themselves as white people. They split themselves off even more. People will call themselve walsh, irishe, dutch, and german over calling themselves white people.

Exactly. I am English, I grew up among Welsh people, my dad is South African, and my best mate Gujarati. Until I moved Stateside I never once, in my whole life, ever referred to myself (or heard myself referred to) as 'white' - any more than I thought of my dad as 'black', or my friends as 'asian', or 'a bit brownish'. I know the States are a melting pot, and maybe people find it useful to define themselves in those terms, but in my experience, outside of America most people don't consider their ethnicity all that much of a factor in their self-identity.   =\\ /=

Back to the OT, I don't think there's any reason to suppose that phenotype is determined by specifically mother or father (unlike in Skyrim), is there? I would have thought it was more a question of dominant vs recessive traits.

Would love to see a Kossdwarf, tho. 

Modifié par elvici, 10 octobre 2013 - 04:45 .

[wcholcombe]

Well, that is because in the states most of that cultural back history-Welsh, south african/german/french/bohemian etc etc has to large extent fallen off as a dominant group in the last 30+ years. At one time, especially in rural areas you still found a lot of that cultural dynamic. People identified themselves in Texas at least as being German(fell out of practice with the WW's to a degree) Czech, Russian, etc. You can still find regional enclaves like that--Hill Country in Texas, Rural Communities, Boston, parts of New York etc. I don't think you would ever find anyone who would identify themselves as English though and then you have mutts like me of English/German/French/Swedish/Jewish/Apache descent.

[elvici]

wcholcombe wrote...

...and then you have mutts like me of English/German/French/Swedish/Jewish/Apache descent.

That must've been some party!    See, now I wish I had a bit more diversity to speak of. 

Modifié par elvici, 10 octobre 2013 - 05:20 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

ragewin wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

ragewin wrote...

Feynriel looks more half-elf than human to me, due to facial structure. Also why would the Dalish accept him?

To elfs he looks more human the elf.
Also, the keeper is the only one to accept him. The rest of the clan not so much.

Not my point. OP stated human + elf = human, but Feynriel looks half elf. I was saying if he was indeed human, why would (even) Marethari accept him?

Because he was the son of one of their clan. He was also a useful mage and a person in need of their help. And because Marethari is not an especially xenophobic example of a dalish elf. Even so, his mother was still surprised he was accepted among the clan at all.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 10 octobre 2013 - 05:37 .

[General TSAR]

Odd topic.

[Nerevar-as]

We know that elf is a recesive trait when the other one is human, so what happens when to half-elves have a child?

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The same thing as when two humans have a child I imagine.

[dragondreamer]

Elves have magical adaptive genes; so if they reproduce with another race, the child is the same race as the non-elven parent.  I remember seeing it implied that it might even be something like a curse, and not a natural condition.  If that's true, I wonder if we'll ever learn how they ended up that way and if it could be lifted.  Actual half-elves in Thedas would be nice.

ragewin wrote...

Not my point. OP stated human + elf = human, but Feynriel looks half elf. I was saying if he was indeed human, why would (even) Marethari accept him?

Special circumstances, I'd say.  His mother was Dalish, and was still around to vouch for him.  And Marethari took pity on him.  I think sometimes people need to remember that the Dalish aren't a monolithic entity or a hivemind.  They share basic cultural background and beliefs, but how those are expressed can differ greatly from clan to clan, and certainly individual to individual.  But I have no doubt that Feynriel wouldn't have been allowed to stay with them indefinitely, just until he learned to control his powers.  Also remember that Marethari tends to be very unorthodox...she parked the clan outside a human city for the better part of a decade for personal reasons.  Feynriel's case wasn't that strange where she's concerned.

(But elf-blooded children aside, there might actually be an account of Dalish taking in human children: the historical Aveline.  Though even in that case they only raised the human baby until it was grown and then sent her to the nearest human city.)

Feynriel is human, but his features take after his mother, giving him an elvish look.  Same way Alistair is (presumably) elf-blooded, but he doesn't look elven because he takes after his human father.

Modifié par dragondreamer, 10 octobre 2013 - 07:50 .

[Quill74Pen]

Han Shot First wrote...

Technically interracial children don't exist in Thedas.

A child born from a union between a human and an elf for example, will always be 100% human. Think of the humans as the Asari of Thedas. They can mate with any sapient species, but the children are always human.

Nah, the humans of Thedas are the Borg. Every time they mate with another race, a new human is born, regardless of the other race's "technological/biological" distinctiveness. 

Modifié par Quill74Pen, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:04 .

[LobselVith8]

dragondreamer wrote...

(But elf-blooded children aside, there might actually be an account of Dalish taking in human children: the historical Aveline.  Though even in that case they only raised the human baby until it was grown and then sent her to the nearest human city.)

Aveline was encouraged to participate in a tournament by her adoptive parents that changed history for women; it's not like they abandoned her.

dragondreamer wrote...

Feynriel is human, but his features take after his mother, giving him an elvish look.  Same way Alistair is (presumably) elf-blooded, but he doesn't look elven because he takes after his human father. 

Or Slim Couldry.

[Shark17676]

Meh. This is where things start getting muddled. They should've just kept it simple and said that, while interracial copulation is certainly possible, cross-breeding isn't.

Even the Dark Ritual wouldn't have been an issue. If your Warden was a male elf or dwarf, the situation would be the same as for a female Warden -- in that you'd have to get Alistair or Loghain to do the deed. Simple.

Modifié par Shark17676, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:17 .

[Ajosraa]

Ok so I hear people say that human + elf = human ....but at the same time I have seen some of the children of such unions in DA2 that have some elven features.

Could the reason that they are considered full human be for reasons akin to racism? Such as how interracial children between African-Americans And Anglos in the United States were thought of as "black" even if they were indeed half white back in the day?

I just get confused that they are supposedly Full human...even if they have pointy ears...Wich means their is clearly some other influence and are visually different.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:39 .

[Silfren]

Ajosraa wrote...

Ok so I hear people say that human + elf = human ....but at the same time I have seen some of the children of such unions in DA2 that have some elven features.

Could the reason that they are considered full human be for reasons akin to racism? Such as how interracial children between African-Americans And Anglos in the United States were thought of as "black" even if they were indeed half white back in the day?

It's not just what people say.  It's Word of God.  Elf and Human pairings ALWAYS only ever produce human children.  Apparently this is true with any other pairing: whether an elf has a child with a dwarf or kossith or whatever, the offspring is always 100% the other race.  Elves only beget elven children with other elves.  Gaider' was clear in no uncertain terms on the point about elves and humans, but I'm not completely sure about the other. 

What children in DA2 seem to have elven features?  Only known progeny is Feynriel as far as I can recall, and he did NOT have any elven features.

[Ajosraa]

^is this perhaps evidence that Elven folks are just..magically altered humans? If they default to human?

And In my opinion, Feynriel did have some washed out elven features. His ears are ever so slightly pointed if you notice in this picture, and his chin is on the narrow side:



This to me shows elven influance in-line with a Half-Breed, reguardless of what some Dev said, Wich is why i thought it was influenced by racism.

Modifié par Ajosraa, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:48 .

[Silfren]

Nerevar-as wrote...

We know that elf is a recesive trait when the other one is human, so what happens when to half-elves have a child?

Well, there's no such thing as a half-elf.  The progeny of Elf and human pairins are always human.  So two children, each from an elf/human pairing, are human, and produce human children.

I realize this is a bizarre issue because that's not even remotely how biology works in the real world, but it couldn't have been made any clearer, by Gaider himself, or the in-game lore.  

[Silfren]

Ajosraa wrote...

^is this perhaps evidence that Elven folks are just..magically altered humans? If they default to human?

And In my opinion, Feynriel did have some washed out elven features. His ears are ever so slightly pointed if you notice in this picture, and his chin is on the narrow side:



This to me shows elven influance in-line with a Half-Breed, reguardless of what some Dev said.

I'd have to see him from the side to see if his ears actually are pointed and that's not just a trick of the light, as it were, and having a narrow chin is by no means a specifically elvish trait.  But I don't see any elven features in him at all, and any that are there are probably just players expecting to see it.  Either way, I don't think a game's visual graphics means much of anything, because the lore's been presented specifically that elf/human progeny are always human, end of story.

We can't just dismiss the words of a Dev outright on a point like this where Gaider clarified a point of lore that wasn't open to debate.  Gaider is the lead writer, and it's not just his word as an external comment made about the story, but written directly into the lore itself.  There's little point in arguing against it, despite how bizarre it is.

Modifié par Silfren, 10 octobre 2013 - 08:53 .

[Silfren]

Fardreamer wrote...

Zevran's father was human I think. He looked more elven. But Fanryel in DA2 looked mostly human. I think BW just hasn't figured out how it should all work yet. We also haven't seen any dwarf/human, dwarf/qunari, dwarf/elf, qunari/elf offspring.

I've seen more than one person suggest that Zevran's father was an elf, but where does this even come from?  Zevran's father obviously had to have been an elf.

[Seboist]

Dunno how it works but I do know that my PC won't be finding out for himself.

[Angrywolves]

Agree Bioware hasn't figured out what to do about the issue.

[elvici]

Ajosraa wrote...
...In my opinion, Feynriel did have some washed out elven features. His ears are ever so slightly pointed if you notice in this picture, and his chin is on the narrow side:

And your opinion is spot-on! Like I mentioned before, Feynriel actually has a unique head morph; in terms of character design, he is neither human nor elf. His ears will actually elongate into a pointy shape if you mess with them, thus:






Yup, that's my original attempt at a half-elf Fenris. He did get better.