52 réponses à ce sujet

[straykat]

 

As a woman who really like men a lot, I'm not insecure to play a male character romancing another woman. Why should it be so abhorrent that straight men wouldn't empathize playing a straight female main character? 

 

In Mass Effect, Liara, Sha'ira, Morinth, Samara, Kelly and Allers was bisexually available as romance convenience rather than genuinely trying to portray lesbian relationship well and they behave the same regardless of which gender Shepard was. It was until Traynor that they attempted to explore a relationship in a way that it affect the general narrative as a homosexual Shepard (you could listen to Shepard and Traynor flirting and interacting with each other throughout the duration of the game, similar with BroShep and Cortez and to a degree with Kaidan) but even then the initial shower scene still reduce Shepard as a casual observer, it was still there to titillate rather than showing intimacy.

 

Wanting every female NPCs to be available to FemShep isn't doing her narrative any good either. Lesbianism isn't a sex fetish. Had the reverse happen to BroShep, with the idea that female players preferred their male main character to have sex with men rather than women, he would have Kaidan from the start and he would be able to have sex or flirt with Joker, Garrus, Wrex, Zaeed, Thane, Grunt, Jacob, James and Javik. Even if it doesn't make sense, it served same purpose. But come to think that wasn't so bad. Free love right?

 

 

 

I've never even played Femshep.. it's not a fantasy of mine to play her as a lesbian personally. Miranda/Ash/Jack are already cool options for my main (male) characters.

 

I just think it'd be cool for others. I've seen more than a few female fans of Jack especially. I doubt she'd ever be as popular as Liara, but it would have helped. I don't like that any of the ME2 characters got ditched, for that matter. It's my main complaint with the whole series.. my whole MO. They fucked that up. Anything that could have prevented that would have been a good thing.

[aoibhealfae]

Even when a man plays a game he can't just turn off his mind, for alot of guys this means that we just can't bring ourselves to tell another man we love them or think their cute, because we don't, even if we are playing with a female character.  I just don't see the point in romanceing someone I am not intressted in or attracted to.  Not all guys I'm sure but for me atleast it's simply not even a thought in my head and to enjoy the game when I play femShep I have to shut down the guys that try to flirt with me as soon as possible.

 

This is more what they did in DA2 with the only straight romance option being a dlc character who was a guy, which was different as it had 3 male compared to only 2 female options.  If I recall right though their were alot of people who felt that it was a cheap cop out.  I didn't mind anyway it just meant I always had two options.  Who did you prefer to get with as mHawk when since you weren't limited in choice in that game?  Did most go with Isabel/Merrill or pair up with Anders/Fenris?  I don't mind them adding gay or male bisexual characters to these games as it's all about choice, but I don't see myself ever going down that path.

 

Why was it so uncomfortable about letting a woman being told she is beautiful, to watch her kiss and being romanced by a guy even if you're a straight guy? Do you feel unnerved by her display of sexuality and interest in another guy that you find she's betraying you and that it was preferable to have her interested in another woman because the idea of it arouses you more? Does doing so changes you perspective on real life lesbians? Or does it enforces you further with the idea that "all women are bisexual"? 

 

The problem with DA2 romance was making ALL NPCs bisexual cheapen their romantic experience and take away the NPC's uniqueness. People took offense because it was unrealistic for every romanceable NPCs to be bisexual and because a vast majority of people don't want their romance characters to be player-sexual. That's why in DAI, they went back with having romance-exclusive (Cullen, Solas, Sera, Dorian, Cass) and bisexual partners.

 

Bioware 'romances' are optional and their games are can be played without a romance. Personally, I have no problem if same-sex romance exist as a way to portray or normalizing LGBT relationship in this medium, but what was the point of it all if it was only available because people only want to see more 'girl on girl' action and because someone was uncomfortable playing their opposite sex and even more uncomfortable when they're playing someone who is straight. 

[aoibhealfae]

I've never even played Femshep.. it's not a fantasy of mine to play her as a lesbian personally. Miranda/Ash/Jack are already cool options for my main (male) characters.

 

I just think it'd be cool for others. I've seen more than a few female fans of Jack especially. I doubt she'd ever be as popular as Liara, but it would have helped. I don't like that any of the ME2 characters got ditched, for that matter. It's my main complaint with the whole series.. my whole MO. They fucked that up. Anything that could have prevented that would have been a good thing.

 

Of all available characters, I wouldn't mind Jack being available for either BroShep and FemShep. Her romance narrative was focused on her overcoming her personal nightmare and emotional healing which is very universal. But I respect her for rejecting me and that she doesn't swing to another team despite having some past sexual relationship with women. Even Tali is a good option for FemShep and I have heard deleted dialogues that hinted possible FemShep/Tali relationship.

 

Ashley and Miranda is by far the only one who work better in a platonic friendship with FemShep. It doesn't make sense to make them bisexual when they never hinted any interest toward FemShep. (even if the camera kept panning on Miranda's ass) 

 

Anyway, there are mods for these. 

[bunch1]

 

Why was it so uncomfortable about letting a woman being told she is beautiful, to watch her kiss and being romanced by a guy even if you're a straight guy? Do you feel unnerved by her display of sexuality and interest in another guy that you find she's betraying you and that it was preferable to have her interested in another woman because the idea of it arouses you more? Does doing so changes you perspective on real life lesbians? Or does it enforces you further with the idea that "all women are bisexual"? 

 

There is nothing wrong with it and no I don't feel betrayed because for the relationship to start I would have to help it along and that is the problem.  It's not about me disliking a man and women, I mostly play mShep and almost always have an LI which is male female.  The problem for me is that femShep is still my avatar in the game and so when Kadien or Garrus are flirting with Shep they are by extension flirting with me and I simply have no desire to flirt back, I just don't get that involved in the whole role-play that I can disconnect my basic instinct that women are sexually and romantically attractive to me and men aren't to actively try and court a man with the end goal beaing to have sex with him.  I like that the option is there, because this is a game about choice, and that as time moved forward bioware began to add same-sex romance and has started to make them exclusive but I still won't play them and that means their is content I will never experience, they didn't have that option even back in KotOR, though I don't think they have same sex relationships in TOR online game either now that I think about it.  And I know it's a game and it has no bearing on my real world view of relationships or violence or else I would believe I could survive a gun shot to the chest and I know that would most likely kill me.

[The dead fish]

I have personally no issues playing a femshep romancing male characters. My canon character in Mass effect is my Johanna Shepard, and her romance is Kaidan. I don't put myself into the shoes of my protagonst when I play a female protagonist, I just see it as a story with a third point of view and I'm writting it, I'm seeing it from behind the scene, like a movie director. So when my femshep kisses Kaidan, when Kaidan tells to my femshep she is beautiful, obviously I don't feel he is talking to me and doing me things lmao while I'm not attracted to guys, it's just the same effect as if I was watching a movie. Everything for me happens with my char and I feel for her story happening before my eyes.

 

I think for a lot of people, it's difficult to not project themself, to not put at all into the shoes of their character in some level. Now there is nothing wrong with not being able to play a straight femshep though, not being able to play something else than its gender, not being able to romance something else than what you like ( guys or girls ) It's not necessarily because you are insecure.

 

Some can enjoy lgbt content, others can't, and the opposite, some only enjoy lgbt content, and never try straight romances, because they are lesbians or gays and always want to identify themself as such. It's a personal thing and not everyone reachs the same level with roleplay. Some are not even able to play something else than a good guy. My own sister tried to roleplay a renegade femshep, she deleted after a few hours because she couldn't project herself being rude to people with her character. Plenty of folks can't play regenade because they identify with their characters or don't enjoy the content, and their personality as a human being plays a certain role. Some can play everything and enjoy anything, some can play different things but have limits, some are not able to play something else than what they only enjoy and keep doing the same.

 

It's normal, people work differently. This is why variety and options are a beautiful thing. I am personally not able to play a gay, a character I created, this is my own limit. I identify a little bit with my male characters unlke my female characters, so there, as such, it becomes literally impossible for me to go seduce other male npcs with my male character, even in a video game lol. I don't enjoy that. I don't decide, it's like that, i feel that way. The same as a lesbian doesn't enjoy romances with male npcs with her female char.

---

As for assuming that femshep is necessarily bisexual, I a do agree that it is annoying. I totally understand this Pov, and on the opposite, don't really get why all the female romances have deleted lines which suppose that Femshep could romance every single female romance option, while it wasn't the case for maleshep for example. Never heard of a possible romance between him and Garrus or Jacob for example. 

 

But femshep, with Ashley, with Jack, with Tali, with Miranda, with Kelly, with Liara, with every single female npc. Ugh. I'm glad it didn't make into the game, it would have been gross lol.

[straykat]

I prefer FemHawke in DA2 actually. And yet I'm torn on who she romances. I have playthroughs with None, Anders, and Fenris. I guess I'd prefer Fenris. It's not the same immersion, but I try to roleplay from her perspective.

 

It'd probably be the same way with Mass Effect. I'm just a lot more settled on Shepard. And I'm tired of the series.

[aoibhealfae]

Admittedly I can be really harsh with my choice of words. Probably the right sentiment would be; being unwilling of stepping into a woman's shoes and experience her narrative as a person. I've encountered this before, with people saying they avoid reading female authors or female POVs because it was not their cup of tea. Women authors writing in male or gender neutral pseudonym to avoid being type-casted or to be taken seriously. Even in fantasy and scifi, if you're a woman and you have a romance subplot in your book, it will always being shelved under paranormal romance despite strong fantasy and scifi elements. Since the romance market is still largely dominated by woman authors and commonly accepted that vast majority of romance readers are female, I think men are self-conscious about it. Which is sad really since I know a lot of men do like to read and write romance. In this game, a lot of men are just ardently passionate and have a lot of strong opinions with their preferred 'ships' which is frankly amazing. Romance is universal.

 

But I was disappointed with FemShep's bisexual partner's f/f 'romance'. The romance still plays out interchangeably with no difference for either gender. And I find its annoying that Shepard always took in the role of the dominant and almost masculine role. Some might find it endearing with her borrowing BroShep's animation but it doesn't appeal to me. A romance shouldn't exist just to serve its audience some scenes of "let's bang" time and neither was the attention should focused on just the female LI herself. It always took two to tango. Which is why for me, Traynor romance is superior as a f/f romance because both of them fully acknowledge each other as women and complement each other unlike Liara who is more or less repeat the same thing to either Shepard.

 

Same goes with all BroShep exclusive romances which fair better without the need to write FemShep into his romance narrative. ME3's FemShep's Kaidanmance suffered when they decided to include BroShep in ME3. It seems odd that Kaidan didn't immediately try to approach a faithful FemShep in the beginning and choose to give longing looks as they play out being distant as professional courtesy as it was to allow some buildup with BroShep/Kaidan relationship. There's wasn't enough time to allow Kaidan to explore his bisexuality which by right should exist from the start, instead he's a straight guy who became straight gay late in the game. While other characters with preexisting relationship are allowed unique scenes for themselves, even faithful BroShep was allowed to flirt heavily with Ashley.

 

In DA2, I think people don't like how romanceable characters are presented as playersexual rather than acknowledging and presenting bisexualism. They choose to present Isabella, a confirmed bisexual, as a stereotypical sexual deviant. Curiously enough, Shepard have more similarities with Isabella in this. But there are mods that allow FemShep and BroShep to romance unromanceable NPCs in the game. Not all are available tho.

Spoiler

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJ8xdRNKnBU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlqHiyuJLiI

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-HfqI5ZiHM

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wrs_V4QFUU

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrMMOteSqOE

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I71MSMJoxms

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkYrUvc1yNg

 

but playersexual is kinda boring

[Andrew Lucas]

Lol, a role-playing game won't define your way of thinking.

I haven't fully finished a FemShep playthrough, but I have with Female Hawke, never went for lesbian romance even if everyone in that game is bisexual in every way. (Thank you, DAI.)

In the end, she finished the game with Fenris, a very enjoyable romance that actually required some work from me. Not ashamed of it. Also, canon in my worldstate.

[Commandr_Shepard]

I agree. The more the merrier for me.

[obbie31]

I'm actually happy that these characters are not bisexual. I think Jack could have been one, but I'm fine with Miranda being straight. If it makes any sense, it gives her more identity and character. I like that femshep can't have a romance with Miranda because she is into men and wants to have kids. Ash on the other hand wouldn't bother me either way as I save Kaiden regardless of the gender of my character. I wasn't a fan of Kaiden being bisexual because it feels like it was thrown in at the last second. In my runs he isn't gay. I simply make sure I meet up with Tali or Miranda before I get my "sanity check." So he ends up being my good friend.

 

I personally don't want either my broshep or femshep to be gay. Nothing against gay people, but I'm not into same sex stuff even for women despite being a straight male. My femshep usually gets with Kaidan, and I'm totally ok with that.

[RakhanaBby]

No and no,don't see the first 2 as lesbians...but Jack! Come on! She looks and sounds like she has fish for dinner every night! It doesn't make any sense she's not a lesbian...bald,99% topless,tattoo all over,swears like a sailor,resents men...come on!!

I tried to pass up a conversation with her as femShep. She just outright said she wasn't "part of the girls club", so....

[Alfonsedode]

I quite agree op, that s why i switch to male for few checks in ME2 during my femshep runs

[a pug]

I think miranda is expendable but tali and jack should've been romanceable

[Jedi Comedian]

I agree with OP, as long as Kaidan is made a bi romance in ME1 as well.

[This is the End My Friend]

I'm happy enough as a guy, but a bi-option would have made them more popular at least. Especially Jack. She deserved more airtime.

 

That's actually an interesting way of looking at it. Personally I thought character continuation was pretty bad across the board but at least we might have got some more Jack banter out of it (if she was indeed a squadmate). Also on an unrelated note, I find the insinuation the Jack should have automatically been into chicks because of her looks or her past to be a little bit..... odd. 

[a pug]

That's actually an interesting way of looking at it. Personally I thought character continuation was pretty bad across the board but at least we might have got some more Jack banter out of it (if she was indeed a squadmate). Also on an unrelated note, I find the insinuation the Jack should have automatically been into chicks because of her looks or her past to be a little bit..... odd. 

same. lots of people seems to think that she must've been at least bi because of her look and masculine (?) actions. i think its kinda rude to say that

[bunch1]

I find the insinuation the Jack should have automatically been into chicks because of her looks or her past to be a little bit..... odd. 

 

 

same. lots of people seems to think that she must've been at least bi because of her look and masculine (?) actions. i think its kinda rude to say that

 

In ME2 Jack mentions sleeping with a girl named Manara and her boyfriend.  This is the basis that people use when they say that Jack has had female lovers before and should have been an option for femSep as well as mShep.  That experience may have soured her to the idea as it did to her belief in others in general, but factually she has slept with other women.

[tesla21]

I don't mind romacing a male as femshep in the least, my canon fem shep romanced Liara cuz blue sexy human squid alien is where it's at, but had it not for that I would have gone Kaidan/Garrus, I even insinuated with Garrus at first but then went "was just fooling around" route on the later dialogue. My femquisitor also rode the bull so yeah.

 

I can see how some may find it unconfortable, I wouldn't go m/m because it's just not my thing. But when taclking the romances I was more invested in the characters themselves and not so interested in experiencing some sort "power-fantasy" or something along those lines. I use romancing to humanize my shepard, flesh out her motivations and preferences, specially since the game focuses so much on you killing stuff, trying to save the galaxy that I really appreciated those times when a companion asks you things like "how are you feeling?" or "how do you always keep going" (my canon paragade femshep had some minor alcohol problems as well lol), you get the idea anyway.

 

On another note, I find femshep romances more interesting, I seriously can't stand Ashley and have never completed a pt with her alive. Only Tali and Jack grabbed my attention for male shep romances.

[Gago]

I am glad these characters stayed straight. I don't think that every npc should be bisexual. 

[vbibbi]

 

Why was it so uncomfortable about letting a woman being told she is beautiful, to watch her kiss and being romanced by a guy even if you're a straight guy? Do you feel unnerved by her display of sexuality and interest in another guy that you find she's betraying you and that it was preferable to have her interested in another woman because the idea of it arouses you more? Does doing so changes you perspective on real life lesbians? Or does it enforces you further with the idea that "all women are bisexual"? 

 

The problem with DA2 romance was making ALL NPCs bisexual cheapen their romantic experience and take away the NPC's uniqueness. People took offense because it was unrealistic for every romanceable NPCs to be bisexual and because a vast majority of people don't want their romance characters to be player-sexual. That's why in DAI, they went back with having romance-exclusive (Cullen, Solas, Sera, Dorian, Cass) and bisexual partners.

 

Bioware 'romances' are optional and their games are can be played without a romance. Personally, I have no problem if same-sex romance exist as a way to portray or normalizing LGBT relationship in this medium, but what was the point of it all if it was only available because people only want to see more 'girl on girl' action and because someone was uncomfortable playing their opposite sex and even more uncomfortable when they're playing someone who is straight. 

 

Well, I don't know about you, but whenever I'm playing one of the romances, I actually mimic the kissing scenes as they play out. So I totes get grossed out if my PC is kissing a man!

[Bowlcuts]

Nah, they're straight and should stay that way.

Females get the Eiffel 65 squid girl, you'll be fine.

[Dabrikishaw]

Damn, it's not often you see a 3 year old thread with the OP sole post bumped.

[Frybread76]

In ME2 Jack mentions sleeping with a girl named Manara and her boyfriend.  This is the basis that people use when they say that Jack has had female lovers before and should have been an option for femSep as well as mShep.  That experience may have soured her to the idea as it did to her belief in others in general, but factually she has slept with other women.

 

Jack mentions sleeping with a couple, which doesn't mean she did anything sexual with the woman of that couple.  The two women could have focused on the guy and never even touched each other.  Does that still mean she's bi or a lesbian?

[Natureguy85]

There are files in the game that show that, at one point, Kaidan and Ashley were potential homosexual romance, but there was an actual petition out there that wanted them canceled in that role. Kaidan became one in the third game, would make sense Ashley would have too. And there are still sound files in the second game that prove that, at one point, Bioware intended ME2 female LIs to be option for female Shepard as well. Can't find them on youtube now, but they are out there.

 

So you are wrong. More correct answer would have been "because Bioware was afraid of scandal".

 

No, you're wrong. All the files tell you is that they were originally written otherwise, but in the final product they were straight. That doesn't mean that the change wasn't from fear of scandal, but the old files being on there means nothing.

[bunch1]

Jack mentions sleeping with a couple, which doesn't mean she did anything sexual with the woman of that couple.  The two women could have focused on the guy and never even touched each other.  Does that still mean she's bi or a lesbian?

We simple don't know how the three of them did it.  Hell, for all we know the guy just liked to watch Jack and Manara together.  Does that make Jack bi or a lesbian?

 

I never said she was a lesbian and if she never has had sexual contact with a women it would be wrong to call her bi.  I never said she was but that the she mentions sleeping with a male female couple is the argument many use to believe that she has at least some history with women and should have been an option.  She would clearly not be repulsed with seeing or touching a naked women and the fact that she only mentions the name of the women seems to show she had more connection to her then the boyfriend and given how casually she ask to screw mShepard it's not all about love for her and sex.