119 réponses à ce sujet

[Kirchroa Alaaf]

It's in the list of actual useful gear... Yes you can see enemies through walls but it also blurs your vision.

[Tokenusername]

holdenagincourt wrote...

I don't see why it's especially crutchy considering that Hunter Mode exists, and if you take four ranks in Fitness or put on a Cyclonic Modulator Hunter Mode does the same thing with no disadvantage, in addition to boosting weapon, melee and power damage, movement speed, weapon accuracy or power recharge, weapon ROF or power damage, and even more movement speed or more global damage boost.

Compare this to Geth Scanner, which only provides the visual overlay and none of the other benefits, several of which (weapon ROF, movement speed, global damage buff) are among the most desirable in the game.

I also assume we don't think Hunter Mode is a crutch on, for instance, Geth Engineer.

My assessment is that Geth Scanner is just a long-overdue way of giving all classes an enormous advantage that the Geth classes have always had. Incidentally, I don't use it all that much myself because figuring out where enemies are in this game is so damn easy if you keep tabs on where your teammates are relative to the possible places enemies can spawn on a given map.

Race specific power are balanced on the traits of their specific races.  Geth have strong shield and weak health, since HM lowers your shields, it is supposed to be lowering your primary defense. You get wall hacks to allow you to strategies for your lack of defense. The whole cyclonics deal is just a flaw of game design. I'm sure you can see how giving Geth Scanner to your Krogan Vanguard doesn't have the same intended effect as Hunter Mode.

[Simba501]

Tokenusername wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

I don't see why it's especially crutchy considering that Hunter Mode exists, and if you take four ranks in Fitness or put on a Cyclonic Modulator Hunter Mode does the same thing with no disadvantage, in addition to boosting weapon, melee and power damage, movement speed, weapon accuracy or power recharge, weapon ROF or power damage, and even more movement speed or more global damage boost.

Compare this to Geth Scanner, which only provides the visual overlay and none of the other benefits, several of which (weapon ROF, movement speed, global damage buff) are among the most desirable in the game.

I also assume we don't think Hunter Mode is a crutch on, for instance, Geth Engineer.

My assessment is that Geth Scanner is just a long-overdue way of giving all classes an enormous advantage that the Geth classes have always had. Incidentally, I don't use it all that much myself because figuring out where enemies are in this game is so damn easy if you keep tabs on where your teammates are relative to the possible places enemies can spawn on a given map.

Race specific power are balanced on the traits of their specific races.  Geth have strong shield and weak health, since HM lowers your shields, it is supposed to be lowering your primary defense. You get wall hacks to allow you to strategies for your lack of defense. The whole cyclonics deal is just a flaw of game design. I'm sure you can see how giving Geth Scanner to your Krogan Vanguard doesn't have the same intended effect as Hunter Mode.

Well said.

[MaxShine]

Iena41 wrote...

Simba501 wrote...

OniGanon wrote...

Simba501 wrote...

Shampoohorn wrote...
A less perfect wall hack or scan would have been more balanced. Either have the scan cycle, or be blurry or faint. Or have its wall hack component be reduced so that it works better vs cloaked or smoked enemies.

I really like that idea (scan cycle or pulse).

You mean like... Tactical Scan 6B?

Not quite.  A pulse that repeats.  So Geth Scanner would still have the same capability, but instead of a continuous vision that reveals enemies, they would only appear in intervals as a pulse was sent out every second or two for example.

Like low-level Splinter Cell's sonar goggles, and if you move everything begin to blur, and you don't understand a thing xD

Yes, do it like that and decreased range.

[Emissary of the Collectors]

 I only use it on my Geth Classes who dont have Hunter Mode (Soldier, Engineer, Juggernaut) for no other reason than it makes me feel more Gethy

[Alien Number Six]

Simba501 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

I don't see why it's especially crutchy considering that Hunter Mode exists, and if you take four ranks in Fitness or put on a Cyclonic Modulator Hunter Mode does the same thing with no disadvantage, in addition to boosting weapon, melee and power damage, movement speed, weapon accuracy or power recharge, weapon ROF or power damage, and even more movement speed or more global damage boost.

Compare this to Geth Scanner, which only provides the visual overlay and none of the other benefits, several of which (weapon ROF, movement speed, global damage buff) are among the most desirable in the game.

I also assume we don't think Hunter Mode is a crutch on, for instance, Geth Engineer.

My assessment is that Geth Scanner is just a long-overdue way of giving all classes an enormous advantage that the Geth classes have always had. Incidentally, I don't use it all that much myself because figuring out where enemies are in this game is so damn easy if you keep tabs on where your teammates are relative to the possible places enemies can spawn on a given map.

Race specific power are balanced on the traits of their specific races.  Geth have strong shield and weak health, since HM lowers your shields, it is supposed to be lowering your primary defense. You get wall hacks to allow you to strategies for your lack of defense. The whole cyclonics deal is just a flaw of game design. I'm sure you can see how giving Geth Scanner to your Krogan Vanguard doesn't have the same intended effect as Hunter Mode.

Well said.

I agree.

[MaxShine]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Simba501 wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

holdenagincourt wrote...

I don't see why it's especially crutchy considering that Hunter Mode exists, and if you take four ranks in Fitness or put on a Cyclonic Modulator Hunter Mode does the same thing with no disadvantage, in addition to boosting weapon, melee and power damage, movement speed, weapon accuracy or power recharge, weapon ROF or power damage, and even more movement speed or more global damage boost.

Compare this to Geth Scanner, which only provides the visual overlay and none of the other benefits, several of which (weapon ROF, movement speed, global damage buff) are among the most desirable in the game.

I also assume we don't think Hunter Mode is a crutch on, for instance, Geth Engineer.

My assessment is that Geth Scanner is just a long-overdue way of giving all classes an enormous advantage that the Geth classes have always had. Incidentally, I don't use it all that much myself because figuring out where enemies are in this game is so damn easy if you keep tabs on where your teammates are relative to the possible places enemies can spawn on a given map.

Race specific power are balanced on the traits of their specific races.  Geth have strong shield and weak health, since HM lowers your shields, it is supposed to be lowering your primary defense. You get wall hacks to allow you to strategies for your lack of defense. The whole cyclonics deal is just a flaw of game design. I'm sure you can see how giving Geth Scanner to your Krogan Vanguard doesn't have the same intended effect as Hunter Mode.

Well said.

I agree.

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

[JewelsWinnfield]

MaxShine wrote...

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

Yes, Hunter Mode is better than the Geth Scanner, but you have to consider the fact that it's a (passive) power and not just gear. So, i'ts not completely free, you still have to invest points in it and it "blocks" a third potential power. Other kits can have a Geth Scanner plus their three regular powers.

[Jaun Shepard]

I never understood why people think knowing where the enemy is so important they will just butt rush you the next second and get killed anyway.

[Tokenusername]

MaxShine wrote...

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

As stated, none of the benefits of Hunter Mode are free. You must invest points in the power, which sacrifices points into other powers, and 375/500 shields are taken for it being active. Calling Hunter Mode OP is calling every passive power OP.

[RZIBARA]

Apparently everythings a damn crutch in this game, according to BSN

[Cyonan]

Tokenusername wrote...

MaxShine wrote...

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

As stated, none of the benefits of Hunter Mode are free. You must invest points in the power, which sacrifices points into other powers, and 375/500 shields are taken for it being active. Calling Hunter Mode OP is calling every passive power OP.

That's a completely absurd claim to make.

It would be like saying calling the Reegar Carbine OP is calling every shotgun OP.

I would say that Hunter Mode is on the OP side because 375/500 shields is really not a huge amount to pay unless you're running a no fitness build, in which case it's your own fault rather than a weakness of the class.

Admittedly I think it's just barely over the line, and in a game like ME3 it's probably not worth bothering to make adjustments. Although if I were, I would make the shield penalty based off of maximum shields rather than base shields, then make changes to numbers as necessary. Just don't let shield boosting gear get around what is supposed to be a downside of the ability.

[Tokenusername]

Cyonan wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

MaxShine wrote...

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

As stated, none of the benefits of Hunter Mode are free. You must invest points in the power, which sacrifices points into other powers, and 375/500 shields are taken for it being active. Calling Hunter Mode OP is calling every passive power OP.

That's a completely absurd claim to make.

It would be like saying calling the Reegar Carbine OP is calling every shotgun OP.

I would say that Hunter Mode is on the OP side because 375/500 shields is really not a huge amount to pay unless you're running a no fitness build, in which case it's your own fault rather than a weakness of the class.

Admittedly I think it's just barely over the line, and in a game like ME3 it's probably not worth bothering to make adjustments. Although if I were, I would make the shield penalty based off of maximum shields rather than base shields, then make changes to numbers as necessary. Just don't let shield boosting gear get around what is supposed to be a downside of the ability.

Read things in context, Cyan. Max said that HM was OP because it provided bonuses that would otherwise require the use of equipment to have. That definition fits every passive ability.

[Cyonan]

Tokenusername wrote...

Cyonan wrote...

Tokenusername wrote...

MaxShine wrote...

Well, Hunter mode is even more OP than the Geth Scanner and it is just 'balancing'(if that can even be called balancing) the advantages of the Geth in one aspect. Hunter mode is free a Geth Scanner, free Weapon + Power Damage, free movement speed bonus, free ROF and free Accuracy bonuses. All normal classes need to waste an equipment slot for movement bonuses and the Geth Scanner. ROF and Accuracy bonuses are not accessible to almost all other classes no matter what they do.

As stated, none of the benefits of Hunter Mode are free. You must invest points in the power, which sacrifices points into other powers, and 375/500 shields are taken for it being active. Calling Hunter Mode OP is calling every passive power OP.

That's a completely absurd claim to make.

It would be like saying calling the Reegar Carbine OP is calling every shotgun OP.

I would say that Hunter Mode is on the OP side because 375/500 shields is really not a huge amount to pay unless you're running a no fitness build, in which case it's your own fault rather than a weakness of the class.

Admittedly I think it's just barely over the line, and in a game like ME3 it's probably not worth bothering to make adjustments. Although if I were, I would make the shield penalty based off of maximum shields rather than base shields, then make changes to numbers as necessary. Just don't let shield boosting gear get around what is supposed to be a downside of the ability.

Read things in context, Cyan. Max said that HM was OP because it provided bonuses that would otherwise require the use of equipment to have. That definition fits every passive ability.

The quote in this chain actually says that Hunter Mode provides two bonuses which require equipment(scanner and movement), two bonuses which are unavailable from equipment(rate of fire and accuracy), plus additional damage.

It also doesn't even fit every passive ability anyway, since you can't get DR from equipment.

[Tokenusername]

Cyonan wrote...

The quote in this chain actually says that Hunter Mode provides two bonuses which require equipment(scanner and movement), two bonuses which are unavailable from equipment(rate of fire and accuracy), plus additional damage.

It also doesn't even fit every passive ability anyway, since you can't get DR from equipment.

While I love having words put in my mouth and arguing for the sake of arguing, well, I can't really make a joke out of that but I don't actual like either of those things.
Passive abilities provide stat buffs (and on occasion debuffs). Saying that because one such ability provides buffs that "no other class can have" is firstly singling out an ability in entire class of abilities that do exactly that, and secondly not true since many passive powers share the same bonuses. You can't say that HM is OP because no one else can have an accuracy bonus, when both Marksman and Devastator Mode also provide accuracy bonuses.

I make no personal claims, i'm simply point out logical fallacy.

Modifié par Tokenusername, 13 octobre 2013 - 08:01 .

[Deerber]

Watching the screen while you play is a crutch - did anyone mention it already?

[Heldarion]

Deerber wrote...

Watching the screen while you play is a crutch - did anyone mention it already?

Well, it has been implied that doing anything in this game is a crutch, so there you go.

[Cyonan]

Tokenusername wrote...
While I love having words put in my mouth and arguing for the sake of arguing, well, I can't really make a joke out of that but I don't actual like either of those things.
Passive abilities provide stat buffs (and on occasion debuffs). Saying that because one such ability provides buffs that "no other class can have" is firstly singling out an ability in entire class of abilities that do exactly that, and secondly not true since many passive powers share the same bonuses. You can't say that HM is OP because no one else can have an accuracy bonus, when both Marksman and Devastator Mode also provide accuracy bonuses.

I make no personal claims, i'm simply point out logical fallacy.

Your original clarification was:

"Max said that HM was OP because it provided bonuses that would otherwise require the use of equipment to have. That definition fits every passive ability."

Is that statement not just as untrue as what you're calling max out for, because both of you forgot about certain abilities?

You may not like it, but one of the problems you pointed out with Max's post is the same problem I pointed out in your post.

[BridgeBurner]

Geth scanner is the devil.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Annomander wrote...

Geth scanner is the devil.

I thought the Devil was Dick Clark.