123 réponses à ce sujet

[Talin Cousland]

I've been a Bioware fan since Baldur's Gate.  Oh, those were the days...

I recently finished Bethesda's Skyrim.  This was alot of fun and got many, many hours out of it.

Then I found out about the player made mods.  The  Skyrim nexus has over 23,000 mods.  The Dragon Age 2 Nexus has 900 mods.  Yeah, Skyrim did outsell Dragon Age 2.  But I also understand that Bethesda does encourage modding and creativity.  Does Bioware encourage it as well?  

What a great way to find new talent.  I even tried my hand at it.  What I learned is that I cannot mod, and a new appreciation for you developers.

I understand that Blizzard does not like player made content and tries to make their code difficult to break.

I was just wondering if Bioware, and EA were going to make it easier for modders to customize certain elements important to players in the new Dragon Age 3 title.

On a side note, One of the mods created by Emma and her team on the Nexus did exceptionally well.  It's Vilja in Skyrim, a follower.  This is where Bethesda dropped the ball for me.  There are no deep character development in for the followers in Skyrim.  But Emma and her team created a terriffic follower companion.   Maybe you can send Emma an invite to do an expansion "add-on companion" at release for DA3Inquisition.  Just food for thought.  337,000 unique downlods is nothing to sneeze at.

Steam even put out a workshop for their player made mods.  Is EA interested in something like this?

Modifié par Talin Cousland, 11 octobre 2013 - 01:17 .

[Deverz]

EA can't make money on mods, so it's not their top priority.

[bubs]

Talin Cousland wrote...

*snip*

I understand that Blizzard does not like player made content and tries to make their code difficult to break.

*snip*

Sorry to steer off topic here, but Blizzard games even have a built in "addon" button to manage player-made content.

On topic. They must not, considering no toolkit was released with DA2. I don't think they hate it or anything, though. It's not an online game, so it would hardly affect anything.

[Paul E Dangerously]

My problem with this is that Bethesda has shackled themselves so heavily to the toolset and the modding community that they have kept delaying the long-needed engine upgrade. For all their statements, Skyrim is still running on the same clunky technology that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 were and it's holding things back. Making a new engine would require an entirely new toolset, and they've been reluctant to put in the time and shell out the money necessary to do so.

Personally, I'd rather have a better engine - something that would allow for a better game for everyone - rather than something only one segment of the fanbase can even use.

[snackrat]

Keep in mind that the Elder Scolls games are a LOT easier to mod - specifically, more intutive. You can pick through the Creation Kit and learn pretty quickly what most stuff does. Maybe not easier to make more complex mods (though I'd still say, yes) but just to create anything. (Especially god items, apparently.) On the nexus, all your mod has to be is a file, it isn't moderated. This encourages a lot of people to enter modding at an entry level, increase mod traffic for Skyrim.

Second is, well, obviously Skyrim has a toolset with accompanying tutorials. DAII has neither. You can find the odd guide for DAII on save game editing but finding out how to do something specifically is very difficult. DAII isn't necessary unmoddable, it just requires a LOT MORE WORK to mod. Effort and unavailability decrease mod traffic for DAII.

Third is that Skyrim, like many Bethesda games (infamously) is buggy, unbalanced, and broken. Theory is that this is anticipating mods (or that they just don't give a damn they have their money, but mostly the mods). It is still enjoyable and playable (mostly...) but a lot of the mods will be patches, fixes, balance mods, overhauls, and not even big ones. You can get a mod to fix the mysteriously unusable bench in Whiterun's Bannered Mare, and that is literally all it does. Still counts as a full mod where the nexus is concerned. Overall? Increase Skryim mod traffic.


Overall though, the Bioware staff that have talked about modding in the BSN seem to approve, recognising that it increases the life of the product (which is certainly to their benefit as well as the players'). It is not a question of whether they WANT to allow modding, but whether they CAN. They're in a postition where they can't provide 3rd party tools (eg: the toolset) to mod the game because of licensing, so eith they charge (fans boo) or they strip it down (editors boo). Like Mass Effect, I imagine coding-capable fans will end up providing the tools, like Gibbed.

Modifié par Karsciyin, 11 octobre 2013 - 01:43 .

[Rorschachinstein]

Deverz wrote...

EA can't make money on mods, so it's not their top priority.

You mean EA can't afford to let people get a hold of the Frostbite 2 engine.

[Bizantura]

Would the sales that Skyrim made have anyting to do with modding capability? I think it does. Thats definitly something EA wants. The investment however not. So no, I don't think we will be getting modding capabilities any time soon. For future, indeed what will Bethesda do? Invest in new engine and toolset? I doubt it!!

[Paul E Dangerously]

Karsciyin wrote...
Third is that Skyrim, like many Bethesda games (infamously) is buggy, unbalanced, and broken. Theory is that this is anticipating mods (or that they just don't give a damn they have their money, but mostly the mods). It is still enjoyable and playable (mostly...) but a lot of the mods will be patches, fixes, balance mods, overhauls, and not even big ones. You can get a mod to fix the mysteriously unusable bench in Whiterun's Bannered Mare, and that is literally all it does. Still counts as a full mod where the nexus is concerned. Overall? Increase Skryim mod traffic.

It's just the nature of the beast. I have yet to see an open world game that wasn't buggier than a cheap motel, and RPGs tend to be infamously buggy, as well. Surprisingly, open world RPGs are pretty buggy.

[Psearo]

Sopa de Gato wrote...

My problem with this is that Bethesda has shackled themselves so heavily to the toolset and the modding community that they have kept delaying the long-needed engine upgrade. For all their statements, Skyrim is still running on the same clunky technology that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 were and it's holding things back. Making a new engine would require an entirely new toolset, and they've been reluctant to put in the time and shell out the money necessary to do so.

Personally, I'd rather have a better engine - something that would allow for a better game for everyone - rather than something only one segment of the fanbase can even use.

Which segment is that?

[Sanunes]

Psearo wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

My problem with this is that Bethesda has shackled themselves so heavily to the toolset and the modding community that they have kept delaying the long-needed engine upgrade. For all their statements, Skyrim is still running on the same clunky technology that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 were and it's holding things back. Making a new engine would require an entirely new toolset, and they've been reluctant to put in the time and shell out the money necessary to do so.

Personally, I'd rather have a better engine - something that would allow for a better game for everyone - rather than something only one segment of the fanbase can even use.

Which segment is that?

I would think the PC segement, for consoles can't use mods so even if a game sells equally across all three platforms only a third would use mods.

[Realmzmaster]

Psearo wrote...

Sopa de Gato wrote...

My problem with this is that Bethesda has shackled themselves so heavily to the toolset and the modding community that they have kept delaying the long-needed engine upgrade. For all their statements, Skyrim is still running on the same clunky technology that Morrowind, Oblivion, and Fallout 3 were and it's holding things back. Making a new engine would require an entirely new toolset, and they've been reluctant to put in the time and shell out the money necessary to do so.

Personally, I'd rather have a better engine - something that would allow for a better game for everyone - rather than something only one segment of the fanbase can even use.

Which segment is that?

The only segment that can use a toolkit is PC users. Bioware has made toolkits before (NWN and Dragon Age). Bioware provides a toolkit when it is economical feasible. DA2 does not have a toolkit because many third party tools were used to modify the engine (which was used to make DAO) used to make DA2. The third party software would have to be stripped out to make a free toolkit, Bioware would have to get all the third parties to agree to a toolkit for DA2 (which costs money) or charge for the toolkit.
DA:I will probably not get a toolkit because DICE has never issued a toolkit for any of their games and they control the Frostbite 3 engine. Bioware probably could not construct a toolkit without DICE's help. Also Bioware is still using some third party software to create DA:I.

Bethesda (makers of Skyrim)  has a toolkit that is great for PC users, but most of the sales for Skyrim and DA2 were not on PCs. Therefore console users get no benefit from a toolkit.

Bethesda games are also notoriously buggy as stated before. Many of the mods for Skyrim are bug fixes or improvements to the UI like SkyUI. Skyrim sold about 2.25 million copies on the PC. SkyUI has 2 million unique downloads from the Nexus which says volumes about how well Skyrim's UI was optimized for the PC.

[CaptainBlackGold]

DA2 may not have had a tool set, but there were still mods made for it that enhanced at least my game experience. All Bioware has to do is not make it unnecessarily difficult to unlock their files and modders will "find a way." Skyrim was modded before the toolset was released.

It can be done, just a matter of how difficult Bioware wants to make it.

[Chaos Hammer]

Talin Cousland wrote...

I've been a Bioware fan since Baldur's Gate.  Oh, those were the days...

I recently finished Bethesda's Skyrim.  This was alot of fun and got many, many hours out of it.

Then I found out about the player made mods.  The  Skyrim nexus has over 23,000 mods.  The Dragon Age 2 Nexus has 900 mods.  Yeah, Skyrim did outsell Dragon Age 2.  But I also understand that Bethesda does encourage modding and creativity.  Does Bioware encourage it as well?  

What a great way to find new talent.  I even tried my hand at it.  What I learned is that I cannot mod, and a new appreciation for you developers.

I understand that Blizzard does not like player made content and tries to make their code difficult to break.

I was just wondering if Bioware, and EA were going to make it easier for modders to customize certain elements important to players in the new Dragon Age 3 title.

On a side note, One of the mods created by Emma and her team on the Nexus did exceptionally well.  It's Vilja in Skyrim, a follower.  This is where Bethesda dropped the ball for me.  There are no deep character development in for the followers in Skyrim.  But Emma and her team created a terriffic follower companion.   Maybe you can send Emma an invite to do an expansion "add-on companion" at release for DA3Inquisition.  Just food for thought.  337,000 unique downlods is nothing to sneeze at.

Steam even put out a workshop for their player made mods.  Is EA interested in something like this?

Lol you've obviously never played Warcraft 3, there are more mods than possible to play theyre just called custom games theres everything from risk to tower defence to world war 2 to life simulators.... js

[Taleroth]

Everybody loves modding. It's just not always considered worth the efforts and risks.

Modding in multiplayer is considered a big no. That's why Blizzard doesn't like you doing it. Modding to access paywall functions is similarly frowned upon.

Beyond that, nobody cares what you do.

[Archaven]

Lol. EA want to release item pack dlc 1,2, infinitium.. Releasing a mod EA make less.. so why should they support mod?

[Taleroth]

Archaven wrote...

Lol. EA want to release item pack dlc 1,2, infinitium.. Releasing a mod EA make less.. so why should they support mod?

Because mods encourage people to keep playing it so that they haven't uninstalled and forgotten it by the time those item packs are released.

Modifié par Taleroth, 11 octobre 2013 - 03:38 .

[Sanunes]

Archaven wrote...

Lol. EA want to release item pack dlc 1,2, infinitium.. Releasing a mod EA make less.. so why should they support mod?

BioWare employees have said that a toolkit increases DLC sales because player made mods will extend the life of the game.

[Cyberstrike nTo]

Taleroth wrote...

Archaven wrote...

Lol. EA want to release item pack dlc 1,2, infinitium.. Releasing a mod EA make less.. so why should they support mod?

Because mods encourage people to keep playing it so that they haven't uninstalled and forgotten it by the time those item packs are released.

More weapons and armors. Uh pass.  

[Sanunes]

CaptainBlackGold wrote...

DA2 may not have had a tool set, but there were still mods made for it that enhanced at least my game experience. All Bioware has to do is not make it unnecessarily difficult to unlock their files and modders will "find a way." Skyrim was modded before the toolset was released.

It can be done, just a matter of how difficult Bioware wants to make it.

Since they are using FrostBite I would think its at the very hard level of difficultly, if all the changes and tools BioWare makes and the game is still at the level difficulty that DICE had for Battlefield 3, I really don't think you are going to see many mods.  If I remember my news articles correctly, it took people around a year to finally figure out FrostBite 2 enough to get information about the game to make a mod that brightened up Battlefield 3.  So any real modification could take years.

[Nightwing99]

Archaven wrote...

Lol. EA want to release item pack dlc 1,2, infinitium.. Releasing a mod EA make less.. so why should they support mod?

ya Because  all the sims 3 mods   Affect  the  DLC packs sales Wait a minute,it  did not 

Modifié par Nightwing99, 11 octobre 2013 - 03:51 .

[Navasha]

I think more developers will begin to appreciate modding over time. The Elder Scrolls series wouldn't do nearly as well without the modding aspect. I can honestly say that I would never have bought Skyrim or even attempted to complete Oblivion if the modding tools weren't a part of it.

I found vanilla Oblivion to be an unplayable, unenjoyable mess at release. It was the first game I had to shutdown the very first day it was released and start modding to make the game enjoyable. For me it was the design decision to include markers pointing out where everything around me was found and neat little arrows to tell me where I should be going. The modding allowed me to remove those things that literally destroyed the game for me. It "saved" the series for me. I would never have given Skyrim a second chance if those tools hadn't been available.

So yeah, I think even EA and other developers are going to start to realize that if people are given the ability to tailor custom their game to their own liking, that wins customers. And repeat customers is what companies are ALWAYS looking to find.

Bethesda though is a unique case since they develop their own engine to produce their game. They own the license and can do with it what they wish. Bioware doesn't have that same kind of option. I do believe they will allow the accessibility to the file system that will allow modders to have their own go at stuff, but I don't expect any tools this time around.

[Allan Schumacher]

Overall though, the Bioware staff that have talked about modding in the BSN seem to approve, recognising that it increases the life of the product (which is certainly to their benefit as well as the players'). It is not a question of whether they WANT to allow modding, but whether they CAN. They're in a postition where they can't provide 3rd party tools (eg: the toolset) to mod the game because of licensing, so eith they charge (fans boo) or they strip it down (editors boo). Like Mass Effect, I imagine coding-capable fans will end up providing the tools, like Gibbed.

There is this, and even then DAO's toolset required a separate group of programmers and testers to work on it to strip out licensed middleware and other such things, and even then it still provided an extra challenge and there were several issues that came once the toolset was available (particularly with it reseting people's plot states of their already existing game because whoops).

BioWare has released two games with end user toolsets, so we do recognize the benefits that can come with it.

I think more developers will begin to appreciate modding over time. The Elder Scrolls series wouldn't do nearly as well without the modding aspect. I can honestly say that I would never have bought Skyrim or even attempted to complete Oblivion if the modding tools weren't a part of it.

I see this come up, and I haven't played Skyrim but I have to ask: can you mod the console version of Skyrim?

[Knight of Dane]

I don't think you can mod the console version of anything. It's not allowed, at least for Sony.

I don't know if there's modding for anything on Xbox, never had one. But modding requires hacking the Playstation console(I think) which is forbidden.

I remember Bethesda talking about looking into Console modding when Skyrim was released, and I also think they used PC mods in some of their console updates, like ranged and magical deathblows which was only a melee thing at release.

Modifié par Knight of Dane, 11 octobre 2013 - 04:35 .

[Usergnome]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Overall though, the Bioware staff that have talked about modding in the BSN seem to approve, recognising that it increases the life of the product (which is certainly to their benefit as well as the players'). It is not a question of whether they WANT to allow modding, but whether they CAN. They're in a postition where they can't provide 3rd party tools (eg: the toolset) to mod the game because of licensing, so eith they charge (fans boo) or they strip it down (editors boo). Like Mass Effect, I imagine coding-capable fans will end up providing the tools, like Gibbed.

There is this, and even then DAO's toolset required a separate group of programmers and testers to work on it to strip out licensed middleware and other such things, and even then it still provided an extra challenge and there were several issues that came once the toolset was available (particularly with it reseting people's plot states of their already existing game because whoops).

BioWare has released two games with end user toolsets, so we do recognize the benefits that can come with it.

I think more developers will begin to appreciate modding over time. The Elder Scrolls series wouldn't do nearly as well without the modding aspect. I can honestly say that I would never have bought Skyrim or even attempted to complete Oblivion if the modding tools weren't a part of it.

I see this come up, and I haven't played Skyrim but I have to ask: can you mod the console version of Skyrim?

No, you can't mod the console versions. And that sucks, since Elder Scrolls Games are always FULL of bugs that need player-made patches to come out asap... I have it on 360 and it freezes atleast once every time I play, and quest lines break, etc... And its basically unplayable on PS4, or so I hear. VERY buggy there.