123 réponses à ce sujet

[Fast Jimmy]

Payng for mods is also ridiculous if you ask me, as if there weren't enough things that publishers rip people off with.

Paying for content you use and enjoy that, in turn, helps finance the ability for companies to offer such things as toolkits is ridiculous?

That seems incredibly short sighted.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 12 octobre 2013 - 01:14 .

[The Heretic of Time]

David7204 wrote...

And it's odd, because all of that completely goes against my impressions.

As if your impressions mean anything.

Not to mentiont hat your impressions could perhaps be WRONG. *gasp*  That must be shocking to you, the very idea that you and your impressions might perhaps be wrong! Well guess what, we're all wrong sometimes, even you Davey, more often than you'd like to believe in fact.

[Pink Pony]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Pink Pony wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

I still maintain providing a toolkit, but also providing a platform for modders to sell this creations if they saw fit (with Bioware taking a cut of the proceeds for providing the tools, payment and distribution method) could be an effective model for making mods much more widely received by publishers and developers.

Not to mention that if people could make a living (or at least a part time job) out of making mods, the quality of them could become vastly improved.

I think this could work. The way I see it working is Bioware selecting certain mods and partnering with their creator to release officially. (Kind of what happened with Neverwinter Nights with the Premium Modules.) I just don't see it working so well just to let people sell their mods without oversight.

Why do you think such a thing wouldn't work without, as you say, oversight? Or, perhaps, you could elaborate what you mean by oversight?

I first want to say I am biased towards free mods; I like their open and collaborative nature and I think people charging for them might change that. 

When I mentioned it not working, I meant a company would not agree to it otherwise. By accepting money for a mod they are giving it their tacit approval. So the developer would ultimately be responsible for all the problems modding can entail. I am not entirely sure how many people would actually pay for mods, so the cost of dealing with the complaints might be more than they make from mods.

By oversight, I meant an approval process. It would weed out the mods which could lead to legal trouble. People already rip content from one game and put it on another. If there was not an approval process these mods would be available (even if for a short time) and by offering them for sale, the game's developer would get into legal trouble.

[Maria Caliban]

Talin Cousland wrote...

What is Bioware's view of player modding?

They like it.

I was just wondering if Bioware, and EA were going to make it easier for modders to customize certain elements important to players in the new Dragon Age 3 title.

They won't because it would take a great deal of time and effort, and their first priority is in making the game.

[Fast Jimmy]

When I mentioned it not working, I meant a company would not agree to it otherwise. By accepting money for a mod they are giving it their tacit approval. So the developer would ultimately be responsible for all the problems modding can entail. I am not entirely sure how many people would actually pay for mods, so the cost of dealing with the complaints might be more than they make from mods.

This isn't inherently true. For instance, Kickstarter allows entrepreneurs of all types of industries and, despite the fact that there are some poorly conceived products or ideas where they also collect a small few for the services, yet they also are not persecuted for every failed Kickstarter idea as of yet.

It would be slightly different with the modding market... but that is the nature of transitioning between any industries and doing something no one had done before.

By oversight, I meant an approval process. It would weed out the mods which could lead to legal trouble. People already rip content from one game and put it on another. If there was not an approval process these mods would be available (even if for a short time) and by offering them for sale, the game's developer would get into legal trouble.

I don't think this is inherently a bad idea, for the record. Requiring modders to register and sign an agreement that they not post content that is deemed inappropriate. I'm not sure this would best be served by an approval process - after all, look at the pains one has to go through to add an app to the iTunes Store - but rather an oversight process that can review content and pull it if there is negative consumer feedback, for either content reasons or bug/quality ones.

And, again... I'm really of the mind that if people start asking for money, the quality of the mods would drastically increase or else no one would use the mod.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Payng for mods is also ridiculous if you ask me, as if there weren't enough things that publishers rip people off with.

Paying for content you use and enjoy that, in turn, helps finance the ability for companies to offer such things as toolkits is ridiculous?

That seems incredibly short sighted.

Call it what you want, why should I pay when lots of other places offer mods for free? Its not the whole idea of paying that I dislike, its the idea that people are going to buy it regardless, then what? Then you'll start to see how it gets abused and soon enough everyone ends up paying for mods, one of the few things that publisher's have little control over.

That's just my opinion, feel free to pay for a toolkit if you want, (that is if they charge for it), I certainly won't pay for it. There's enough crap to deal with already, pre-order bonuses, micro transactions, DLC, unfinished games, etc. Paying for mods won't make anything better. 

[Nightdragon8]

yes you can mod Xbox Skyrim, also there is a limit to how far you can mod in Skyrim, there seems to be a 4.12gb limit on textures that will CTD when you reach it.

But yes the mods for Xbox pale in comparision to what the PC has, Heck, PC has there own fanmade DLC sized stuff.

[Fast Jimmy]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

Payng for mods is also ridiculous if you ask me, as if there weren't enough things that publishers rip people off with.

Paying for content you use and enjoy that, in turn, helps finance the ability for companies to offer such things as toolkits is ridiculous? 

That seems incredibly short sighted.

Call it what you want, why should I pay when lots of other places offer mods for free? Its not the whole idea of paying that I dislike, its the idea that people are going to buy it regardless, then what? Then you'll start to see how it gets abused and soon enough everyone ends up paying for mods, one of the few things that publisher's have little control over.

That's just my opinion, feel free to pay for a toolkit if you want, (that is if they charge for it), I certainly won't pay for it. There's enough crap to deal with already, pre-order bonuses, micro transactions, DLC, unfinished games, etc. Paying for mods won't make anything better. 

And, yet, modkits are becoming an ultra-rarity. This isn't like a DLC character, or microtransactions that allow you to pay-to-win in MP.  

This is is a feature that allows players to take control of their gaming experience and enrich, expand and enhance it as they see fit. Sure, Bethesda and CDProjekt offer toolkits. And maybe some of the indie Kickstarters are offering it now, too. That doesn't mean that the entire practice is quickly fading out of vogue, especially with the next generation of engine such as frostbite 3 and unreal 4, which are increasingly less friendly to allowing end users to be able to pop the hood open and make changes. 

Modding is a feature worth paying for, more than most of the other and nickel-and-dime features that have become the industry norms. The only developers who are allowing modkits are those that own nearly every stitch of development software they own... which is going to be increasingly a smaller and smaller group of developers. After all, they are game development companies, not animation software developers or sound utilization developers or bug reporting software developers. They do what they do best - make a game. And more and more developers are letting companies that have extremely polished and high level tools do the heavy lifting in creating these tools and then using them to make the best game. 

Point being - if you're not willing to pay for mods, then don't be surprised when they don't exist in the market by 2020.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 12 octobre 2013 - 03:02 .

[Adela]

Fast Jimmy wrote...


And, again... I'm really of the mind that if people start asking for money, the quality of the mods would drastically increase or else no one would use the mod.

I kind of doubt that if ppl  were to ask for money for mods would magically make awesome products, ppl  usually make them as a hobby and for fun not everyone is experienced to provide super quality mods, unless they are an actual 3d developer artist, sure some are talented but not everyone, I would pay for a toolkit if it were to be a DLC but i wouldn't  charge for the mods because depending on the country you live in  and assuming there will be alot of mods out there it could get very expencive

[Fast Jimmy]

ag99 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


And, again... I'm really of the mind that if people start asking for money, the quality of the mods would drastically increase or else no one would use the mod.

I kind of doubt that if ppl  were to ask for money for mods would magically make awesome products, ppl  usually make them as a hobby and for fun not everyone is experienced to provide super quality mods, unless they are an actual 3d developer artist, sure some are talented but not everyone, I would pay for a toolkit if it were to be a DLC but i wouldn't  charge for the mods because depending on the country you live in  and assuming there will be alot of mods out there it could get very expencive

The option to charge for mods is all I ask. Not the requirement to.

If someone wants to try their hand at a mod and isn't comfortable charging or even against the idea of charging at all, even if they are experienced and stand by the quality of their product... it would be optional, not required. 

[Pink Pony]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
It would be slightly different with the modding market... but that is the nature of transitioning between any industries and doing something no one had done before.

I think this is they key element. This has not been done before, so the company which did this would have to indemnify themselves against liability for hosting and recieving money from mods which would result in either civil or criminal cases againt the company.

Presuming that happens, I think this would be an interesting experiment. I want to see what would happen. Plus I think this would be one of the most likely ways to get mods to consoles and I want to see that happen.

[Adela]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

ag99 wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...


And, again... I'm really of the mind that if people start asking for money, the quality of the mods would drastically increase or else no one would use the mod.

I kind of doubt that if ppl  were to ask for money for mods would magically make awesome products, ppl  usually make them as a hobby and for fun not everyone is experienced to provide super quality mods, unless they are an actual 3d developer artist, sure some are talented but not everyone, I would pay for a toolkit if it were to be a DLC but i wouldn't  charge for the mods because depending on the country you live in  and assuming there will be alot of mods out there it could get very expencive

The option to charge for mods is all I ask. Not the requirement to.

If someone wants to try their hand at a mod and isn't comfortable charging or even against the idea of charging at all, even if they are experienced and stand by the quality of their product... it would be optional, not required. 

Yea but see, this option would be tempting to  a lot of ppl weather they are experienced or not, in their mind  they might think that the specific product might be worth some money regardless of its quality,  so as I said having this option wont' necessarily  guarantee  a good quality product, for example if  you are familiar with second life or imvu you would see a lot of products there that are not very good and they charge as if it was a work of art, granted there are some that are free but not many, so by having this option ppl would be more inclined to use it then do it for free, witch means it would get quite expensive  for the player, and can also decrease the use of mods

[Splinter Cell 108]

Fast Jimmy wrote...

And, yet, modkits are becoming an ultra-rarity. This isn't like a DLC character, or microtransactions that allow you to pay-to-win in MP.  

This is is a feature that allows players to take control of their gaming experience and enrich, expand and enhance it as they see fit. Sure, Bethesda and CDProjekt offer toolkits. And maybe some of the indie Kickstarters are offering it now, too. That doesn't mean that the entire practice is quickly fading out of vogue, especially with the next generation of engine such as frostbite 3 and unreal 4, which are increasingly less friendly to allowing end users to be able to pop the hood open and make changes. 

Modding is a feature worth paying for, more than most of the other and nickel-and-dime features that have become the industry norms. The only developers who are allowing modkits are those that own nearly every stitch of development software they own... which is going to be increasingly a smaller and smaller group of developers. After all, they are game development companies, not animation software developers or sound utilization developers or bug reporting software developers. They do what they do best - make a game. And more and more developers are letting companies that have extremely polished and high level tools do the heavy lifting in creating these tools and then using them to make the best game. 

Point being - if you're not willing to pay for mods, then don't be surprised when they don't exist in the market by 2020.

But why pay for it when time and time again the PC community has shown that it can beat these exploitative behaviors? Remember when M$ wanted to charge GFWL, nobody cared and eventually it became free.  I don't think modding is fading, especially not when companies like Valve are actively promoting it through their own services WITHOUT paying. 

If anyone could start charging for mods it'd be Steam, they could charge if they wanted and yet they don't. I haven't heard about Unreal 4 not being mod friendly. I guess I'm not real sure about that but neither have I heard anything of the sort. I know Unreal 3 saw a lot of mods and it has UDK which is free. I know some very good games that were made with it. I'm not surprised about Frostbite 3, EA has always disliked modding, it wouldn't be strange to me if they specifically decided to build the engine that way. 

I don't see modding fading anytime soon, it has been around for a long time and I'm sure people have been claiming these things from way back as well. Just look at Skyrim, it was very succesful, maybe not because of mods but this certainly helps, the game will be alive for a long time because of this. The Nexus sites have been running for a long time and right now I'd say they are probably at their best. 

Besides, I'm not real fond of having companies like EA regulating modding, knowing how they are, I'm sure they will do their best to suppress certain types of mods. For example there's a mod called Tale of Two Wastelands that merges Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas,. Do you think something like that would ever be allowed to succeed under companies like EA? I certainly don't. If I'm going to pay for mods, then I want the whole package, not half of it, not a little bit, the whole thing and I'm not naive enough to believe that will ever happen with paid toolkits. 

[fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb]

Talin Cousland wrote...
What is Bioware's view of player modding?

Moddable games are a critically endangered species anyway. Even the Wticher 2 with the passionate no nonsense people behind it had very little modding capability until recently.

Even Skyrim isn't as moddable as older Bethesda games.

Modifié par fdgvdddvdfdfbdfb, 12 octobre 2013 - 03:45 .

[Anomaly-]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
I don't like nude mods and I have a strong opinion against what goes on in the Nexus and how this is just ridiculous, but Bethesda never took down any mods. Besides, I think that completely removing modding because of a few social deviants(I'm not referring to modders but people who dl that stuff) is a dumb idea. Payng for mods is also ridiculous if you ask me, as if there weren't enough things that publishers rip people off with.

Nude mods are inevitable, it is a sad truth and it also doesn't help that they're some of the easiest mods to create. If I were in charge of Nexus I'd kick out all those people but I am not and they don't like people who criticize this either. It is just something you have to accept. 

I really don't understand when I hear things like this. I'm not crazy about nude mods, but really, what's the harm? A lot of people find them more immersive, and I can totally see where they're coming from. And even if they are just 'social deviants' as you say who just want to see nudity for nudity's sake, who cares? If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. If you ask me, what's utterly ridiculous is how incredibly skewed North American values are. No one complains about mods that increase violence or gore, but god forbid someone should see a boob.

Anyway, it's a very small part of the modding scene. I really don't think it reflects badly on mods at all.

greengoron89 wrote...

Tup3xi wrote...

Let's put it this way: Would you think that Skyrim would be anywhere near as popular as it is now without modding tools? I don't think it would. I can guarantee one thin: There would be much, much less Skyrim videos in YouTube. Mods and the attention they get are free advertisement for the game too.

Are you daft (don't answer - rhetorical question)? Console versions of Skyrim outsold the PC version by several million copies. Even without PC sales, Skyrim would still be a resounding commercial success.

The ignorance these PC master race-types exhibit is astounding.

Try not to accuse people of being ignorant when you clearly failed to read what they wrote. Everything he/she said is true. They didn't claim PC sales or modders were the majority, but it's pretty much a fact that without the mods, there would have been less sales. Also note that they said "anywhere near as popular as it is now". At this stage in the game, 2 years after release, it's pretty safe to say that many people still playing today -- like myself -- are still playing because of mods.

Modifié par Anomaly-, 12 octobre 2013 - 04:14 .

[Star fury]

Angrywolves wrote...

I don't know if the high horse remark was directed at me.
Let the modders make nudie mods, porn mods, necrophiliac mods, whatever they want.
I don't care.
I do not care.
shrugs.

I hope you do understand that people make mods with good story and gameplay enhancements.

[Splinter Cell 108]

Anomaly- wrote...

I really don't understand when I hear things like this. I'm not crazy about nude mods, but really, what's the harm? A lot of people find them more immersive, and I can totally see where they're coming from. And even if they are just 'social deviants' as you say who just want to see nudity for nudity's sake, who cares? If you don't like it, you don't have to use it. If you ask me, what's utterly ridiculous is how incredibly skewed North American values are. No one complains about mods that increase violence or gore, but god forbid someone should see a boob.

Anyway, it's a very small part of the modding scene. I really don't think it reflects badly on mods at all.

I don't care what they do to be honest, but I still don't have a high opinion of these people, There is just a point when it goes too far, even if you do enable every possible filter in the Nexus that skimpy armor crap and the glamazon screenshots keep showing up. But that's not what I'm referring to when it "goes too far", I've had the unfortunate experience of having seen some of the sick stuff some people have come up with. For example once, by accident I happened to click a link which took me to a mod which was a woman's nude headless and dismembered torso place on a stick and this was on the nexus which usually doesn't abide by this sort of things. Wouldn't that disturb you? There are just times in which you just can't stay silent, usually I never even waste my time with this, people don't really care and it will happen regardless. 

The worst part is that this isn't even the worst thing you can find there, I've heard from others that there are rape mods, thanfully I've never seen any of that. Who in his right mind needs to download this for Skyrim, New Vegas or any game? These are not people I want to see anywhere, not on the Nexus, not anywhere. Some of these people even have the audacity to claim that they do this for "realism" but really that's an excuse. 

The fact is that these people's behaviors also affect what others think of gamers. People are not going to bother to distinguish who is into that stuff and who isn't, as soon as those things are seen, you know what most will assume. 

[Fishy]

Has someone with 115 mid installed on Skyrim ... I hope they include it. There's so many talented and dedicated modder out there. Hell .The dev at bioware could learn a thing or two about modder and fans creativity and talent.

[Star fury]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...
I don't care what they do to be honest, but I still don't have a high opinion of these people, There is just a point when it goes too far, even if you do enable every possible filter in the Nexus that skimpy armor crap and the glamazon screenshots keep showing up. But that's not what I'm referring to when it "goes too far", I've had the unfortunate experience of having seen some of the sick stuff some people have come up with. For example once, by accident I happened to click a link which took me to a mod which was a woman's nude headless and dismembered torso place on a stick and this was on the nexus which usually doesn't abide by this sort of things. Wouldn't that disturb you? There are just times in which you just can't stay silent, usually I never even waste my time with this, people don't really care and it will happen regardless. 

The worst part is that this isn't even the worst thing you can find there, I've heard from others that there are rape mods, thanfully I've never seen any of that. Who in his right mind needs to download this for Skyrim, New Vegas or any game? These are not people I want to see anywhere, not on the Nexus, not anywhere. Some of these people even have the audacity to claim that they do this for "realism" but really that's an excuse. 

The fact is that these people's behaviors also affect what others think of gamers. People are not going to bother to distinguish who is into that stuff and who isn't, as soon as those things are seen, you know what most will assume. 

Criticises mods, plays on Xbawks. Brilliant. I had a strong suspicion that you play on consoles. I love how console players who can't play mods criticise them, while PC players who, you know actually use mods, almost always appreciate them.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

Call it what you want, why should I pay when lots of other places offer mods for free?

If you don't think the mods are worth the money, then you shouldn't pay.  That's how buying things works - it's a voluntary exchange.

But if there's a market for premium mods, then that market will be served by enterprising modders.  They night even then band together into small modding studios.  That, I think, would be awesome.

[Allan Schumacher]

Thread closed. Learn to be a bit more respectful of each other even if you disagree with each other.