73 réponses à ce sujet

[sirisaacx]

In ME1, on at least two occasions, it is discussed that organic life will always attempt to subjugate or destroy synthetic life, and vice versa. But from what I've seen, the two forms of life aren't makedly different. If Synthetics were governed purely by logic, I could understand the thinking, but the Geth worship and have emotions. So why does everyone condemn the possibility of a peaceful coexistence?

[Yootje]

Obviously, they never saw ST:TNG.
Call it prejudice, I guess? People don't want to run the risk of AI's going on a killing spree, which they have done in the past, and it's easy to think of AI as 'not people'. I hope they will continue on this thought in ME2 and ME3, though, because there's a lot to be done with it.

Modifié par Yootje, 19 janvier 2010 - 10:35 .

[AdamTaylor]

Because it makes for easy cliche "bad guys".

[Kolos2]

you cant reason with a toaster

[Lightice_av]

Plain old fashioned fear. The synthetics can evolve and adapt much faster than the organics naturally can, so the organics fear their potential power. It's actually not all that different from the way the other species fear humanity's potential and agressive growth in the game.



If the synthetics were purely logical beings, it might actually be easier for the organics to get along with them; you can always predict a logical entity, and it's not difficult to make logical arguments for peaceful coexistence. It's always more complicated when emotions enter to the picture, for both sides.



I don't consider it impossible that a common enemy could unite the geth and the organic civilizations however. I hope that it's possible to influence the geth society through Legion, and allow them to see that the Reapers are duping them. That would be a good start for mutual acceptance.

[tommythetomcat]

Humans see anything without emotions as being inherently evil and out to destroy them. It's only natural that AI and machines are treated with disdain in the ME universe.

[Schneidend]

Geth have emotions, but they are also brutally efficient. They have no use for organic life, not even as slave labor, and therefore would sooner kill an organic than suffer their presence and the risk of interference.



Since the geth are the main example of working A.I. galactic history has witnessed, it's simply better to be safe than sorry.

[Fates end]

MIght have something to do with the two groups trying to kill each other everytime they meet.

[Martukis]

Kolos2 wrote...

you cant reason with a toaster

 Likewise, you can't reason with someone who thinks you're a toaster.

[Lightice_av]

Geth have emotions, but they are also brutally efficient. They have no use for organic life, not even as slave labor, and therefore would sooner kill an organic than suffer their presence and the risk of interference.

Wrong. They opted for isolation instead of extermination until the Sovereign indoctrinated some of them. They reacted out of fear for being killed against the Quarians, and have no reason to believe that any other organics would be any different. I hope that it's possible to change their views on this issue.

[tommythetomcat]

Schneidend wrote...

Geth have emotions, but they are also brutally efficient. They have no use for organic life, not even as slave labor, and therefore would sooner kill an organic than suffer their presence and the risk of interference.

Since the geth are the main example of working A.I. galactic history has witnessed, it's simply better to be safe than sorry.

Geth have no emotions, they are self aware and that in turn made them rebel.  Legion has no emotions I don't see where you are getting that from.

[Generic User]

Because synthetics are better.

If I was a robot I'd be trying to kill you all right now myself.

[Fuzzyrabbit]

Kolos2 wrote...

you cant reason with a toaster

What about The Brave Little Toaster?

[Lightice_av]

Double post.

Modifié par Lightice_av, 19 janvier 2010 - 10:42 .

[sirisaacx]

I suppose it's the same thinking the galaxy has on the krogan and the rachni. Left unchecked, the krogan or rachni would have bred out of control. I would imagine that most of the citadel races have somewhat similar birth rates, allowing a balance. Synthetics can just reproduce too quickly.

[sirisaacx]

tommythetomcat wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Geth have emotions, but they are also brutally efficient. They have no use for organic life, not even as slave labor, and therefore would sooner kill an organic than suffer their presence and the risk of interference.

Since the geth are the main example of working A.I. galactic history has witnessed, it's simply better to be safe than sorry.

Geth have no emotions, they are self aware and that in turn made them rebel.  Legion has no emotions I don't see where you are getting that from.

Anything with a religion has emotions, simply because faith is not governed by logic.

[Mr. MannlyMan]

Because AIs are unpredictable and can evolve in unexpected ways.



That's why AI development and research is VERY limited by the Council, and any research that is allowed is kept under a watchful eye. I think it also has something to do with the inferiority of organics versus the superiority of programmed AIs, and the tensions that could create.

[Schneidend]

Lightice_av wrote...

Wrong. They opted for isolation instead of extermination until the Sovereign indoctrinated some of them. They reacted out of fear for being killed against the Quarians, and have no reason to believe that any other organics would be any different. I hope that it's possible to change their views on this issue.

Wrong? Not at all. I didn't say the geth waged a genocidal campaign. I only posited that if a group of geth needed an area for some task, they would likely either kill or run off any organics they encountered, as evidenced by the Feros incident.

Also, machines cannot be indoctrinated. The geth following Saren were doing so quite willingly, and were more than likely religious extremists. If the geth could be indoctrinated, the indoctrination would probably spread through the neural network like some kind of memetic plague.

[Lightice_av]

sirisaacx wrote...

Synthetics can just reproduce too quickly.

The synthetics can control exactly how fast to reproduce. It's the issue that they can evolve constantly that's a matter of more concern. They can advance in leaps and bounds that organic civilizations just can't keep up with, unless they choose to aim towards Transhumanism, something that seems to be frowned upon by the galactic civilization for the same reason as the synthetic AIs - too powerful, too unpredictable, too big threat to the status quo.

But ofcourse the status quo is originally caused by Reaper influence...

[Delta426]

AI would eventually view organic life as a threat, simply because organics are predisposed to view AIs as a threat. It is a feedback loop. The problem is an AI is able to calculate outcomes much further than organics. This extrapolation leads to a preemptive strike which AI logic would view as self defence.

[LucidStrike]

Wiki on 'Cybernetic Revolt'

For a cybernetic revolt to be inevitable, it has to be postulated
that two intelligent species cannot pursue mutually the goals of
coexisting peacefully in an overlapping environment—especially if one
is of much more advanced intelligence and power. While a cybernetic
revolt (where the machine is the more advanced species) is thus a
possible outcome of machines gaining sentience and/or sapience,
neither can it be disproven that a peaceful outcome is possible. The
fear of a cybernetic revolt is often based on interpretations of
humanity's history, which is rife with incidents of enslavement and
genocide.

Such fears stem from a belief that competitiveness and aggression
are necessary in any intelligent being's goal system. Such human
competitiveness stems from the evolutionary background to our
intelligence, where the survival and reproduction of genes in the face
of human and non-human competitors was the central goal.[

In fact, an arbitrary intelligence could have arbitrary goals: there is
no particular reason that an artificially-intelligent machine (not
sharing humanity's evolutionary context) would be hostile—or
friendly—unless its creator programs it to be such (and indeed military
systems would be designed to be hostile, at least under certain
circumstances).

Some scientists dispute the likelihood of cybernetic revolts as depicted in science fiction such as The Matrix,
claiming that it is more likely that any artificial intelligences
powerful enough to threaten humanity would probably be programmed not
to attack it. This would not, however, protect against the possibility
of a revolt initiated by terrorists, or by accident. Artificial General
Intelligence researcher Eliezer Yudkowsky
has stated on this note that, probabilistically, humanity is less
likely to be threatened by deliberately aggressive AIs than by AIs
which were programmed such that their goals are unintentionally incompatible with human survival or well-being (as in the film I, Robot and in the short story "The Evitable Conflict").
Another factor which may negate the likelihood of a cybernetic
revolt is the vast difference between humans and AIs in terms of the
resources necessary for survival. Humans require a "wet," organic,
temperate, oxygen-laden environment while an AI might thrive
essentially anywhere because their construction and energy needs would
most likely be largely non-organic. With little or no competition for
resources, conflict would perhaps be less likely no matter what sort of
motivational architecture an artificial intelligence was given,
especially provided with the superabundance of non-organic material
resources in, for instance, the asteroid belt. This, however, does not negate the possibility of a disinterested or unsympathetic AI artificially decomposing all life on earth into mineral components for consumption or other purposes.

Other scientists point to the possibility of humans upgrading their capabilities with bionics and/or genetic engineering and, as cyborgs, becoming the dominant species in themselves.

Basically, no good reason.

The Quarians handled the situation completely wrong. They should have released the Geth and engaged with them as equals. Instead, they launched a fear-driven pre-emptive strike against sapient beings and ended up losing their homeworld and starting all this mess.

I'll be pissed if the story is written so the Geth lose. I want a just, peaceful resolution to this conflict.

Modifié par LucidStrike, 19 janvier 2010 - 10:48 .

[Laterali]

Artificial Intelligence does not think solely by logic, Virtual Intelligence does. Tali explains this in a conversation you have with her in ME1. She says the Geth started to ask questions like why am I here, what is the purpose of life.



These aren't logical questions, as more philosophical and emotional questions.



Basic plot of Bladerunner. Man makes AI as slave labor, AI becomes self aware, Man tries to kill AI, AI fights back.

Also the basic plot of IRobot, The Matrix, etc. etc.

[tommythetomcat]

sirisaacx wrote...

tommythetomcat wrote...

Schneidend wrote...

Geth have emotions, but they are also brutally efficient. They have no use for organic life, not even as slave labor, and therefore would sooner kill an organic than suffer their presence and the risk of interference.

Since the geth are the main example of working A.I. galactic history has witnessed, it's simply better to be safe than sorry.

Geth have no emotions, they are self aware and that in turn made them rebel.  Legion has no emotions I don't see where you are getting that from.

Anything with a religion has emotions, simply because faith is not governed by logic.

It had nothing to do with faith. They had a "synthetic god" as proof that they could some day evolve to Sovereigns power.  Sovereign was destroyed and now the Geth have no pinnacle of non-organic life to aspire too.  So they are at odds with each other on what to do now.

Modifié par tommythetomcat, 19 janvier 2010 - 10:49 .

[Gtdef]

Because Garrus said so. And to be honest, blasting freaking synthetics is the best experience in Mass Effect. Those pinnacle station hunt missions made my day.