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[Face of Evil]

Ryzaki wrote...

The Qunari? Meredith and Orsino were ready to take on the Arishok then and there. Heavy losses to be sure but he'd been killed.

Orsino would have died without Hawke's intervention. Meredith might have been able to battle to the Arishok, but even if she could, I doubt she could win.

[Xilizhra]

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

[Ryzaki]

That's a fair-sized assumption to make of their skills, and in any
case, you're moving the goalposts from "solves problems" to "solves
problems in a way no one else in the universe could." I mean, any Warden
could have done what the PC did, it'd just mean "heavy losses" because
of lost time.

But since you asked...
--Neutralizes various and sundry ****s around Kirkwall, such as Ser Alrik
--Cuts through the guard's corruption and sets Aveline up to lead it to glory
--Is the principle actor in finding a whole bunch of treasure
--Saves Merrill from being killed by Marethari
--Pulls Isabela out of several compromising situations
--Puts an end to Bartrand's house of horror after he goes crazy
--Successfully exorcises the same house later on
--Deals with a serial killer of elven children (unless you take the blatantly stupid option, but eh)

Fair enough.

--  True enough
-- This is A. Optional and B. Most of the corruption exposing is done by Aveline.
-- A bunch of treasure that caused Meredith to go insane. Solved one problem caused a horde more.
-- Where are you even getting this from? if Hawke didn't help Merrill period Marethari is never possessed and that whole incident doesn't happen.
-- You really suggesting Isabela couldn't deal with Castillon and the rest on her own?
-- After helping get the cursed idol in the first place yeah
-- Above
-- Chances are the guard were going to take him into custody eventually anyway (or the man would've finally managed to kill himself).

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:26 .

[Seboist]

Face of Evil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Qunari? Meredith and Orsino were ready to take on the Arishok then and there. Heavy losses to be sure but he'd been killed.

Orsino would have died without Hawke's intervention. Meredith might have been able to battle to the Arishok, but even if she could, I doubt she could win.

Sounds like a good resolution to me.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

That line is omitted in the Templar ending.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

That's a fair-sized assumption to make of their skills, and in any
case, you're moving the goalposts from "solves problems" to "solves
problems in a way no one else in the universe could." I mean, any Warden
could have done what the PC did, it'd just mean "heavy losses" because
of lost time.

But since you asked...
--Neutralizes various and sundry ****s around Kirkwall, such as Ser Alrik
--Cuts through the guard's corruption and sets Aveline up to lead it to glory
--Is the principle actor in finding a whole bunch of treasure
--Saves Merrill from being killed by Marethari
--Pulls Isabela out of several compromising situations
--Puts an end to Bartrand's house of horror after he goes crazy
--Successfully exorcises the same house later on
--Deals with a serial killer of elven children (unless you take the blatantly stupid option, but eh)

Fair enough.

--  True enough
-- This is A. Optional and B. Most of the corruption exposing is done by Aveline.
-- A bunch of treasure that caused Meredith to go insane. Solved one problem caused a horde more.
-- Where are you even getting this from? if Hawke didn't help Merrill period Marethari is never possessed and that whole incident doesn't happen.
-- You really suggesting Isabela couldn't deal with Castillon and the rest on her own?
-- After helping get the cursed idol in the first place yeah
-- Above
-- Chances are the guard were going to take him into custody eventually anyway (or the man would've finally managed to kill himself).

It's true that not everything that Hawke does has an optimal outcome, because Hawke isn't precognitive and didn't know that a treasure expedition would wind up wrecking the whole city. But solving problems one caused without having any way to have known about them prior strikes me as being fine regardless.

And Merrill would have gotten killed by the varterral if not Marethari directly.

If he had written to her saying "Hey, mom and dad left you everything,"
do you really think she would have stayed away like in DA2?

Yes.

Funny how she preaches "love is more important than money" when she's
the one asking for money for nothing but "love" (whatever that means),
yet when there's nothing in it for her, she's nowhere to be found.
Couldn't be arsed to show up when her parents and brother needed her,
but when she needs something? Suddenly she's at the door!

Um, she couldn't have done anything substantial for her parents by that point and her children needed her more. So I'm not seeing it.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:29 .

[cjones91]

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

And in Asunder the templars had taken back Kirkwall while capturing the survivors.

[Ryzaki]

Face of Evil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

The Qunari? Meredith and Orsino were ready to take on the Arishok then and there. Heavy losses to be sure but he'd been killed.

Orsino would have died without Hawke's intervention. Meredith might have been able to battle to the Arishok, but even if she could, I doubt she could win.

? Orsino wouldn't have died without Hawke's intervention. Meredith was right behind him/her. I mean...there's no way she left went all the way to the gallows and came back in the short amount of time of Hawke fighting those few Qunari.

That and Orsino certainly isn't a slouch in combat. He can take on a horde of Qunari on his own if his "distraction" is anything to go on.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:29 .

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Cleary mages matter more then a full city. Don't argue about moral when yours is so screwed up.

[Shadow Fox]

[quote]Faerunner wrote...

[quote]Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

[/quote]Well he could have atleast written her about it.[/quote]

Maybe he wondered if she would come back without financial incentive.

If he had written to her saying "Hey, mom and dad left you everything," do you really think she would have stayed away like in DA2?

Funny how she preaches "love is more important than money" when she's the one asking for money for nothing but "love" (whatever that means), yet when there's nothing in it for her, she's nowhere to be found. Couldn't be arsed to show up when her parents and brother needed her, but when she needs something? Suddenly she's at the door!
[/quote]

Yep she's a hypocrite.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:31 .

[Xilizhra]

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Cleary mages matter more then a full city. Don't argue about moral when yours is so screwed up.

It's not like the templar ending protects the city any better.

And in Asunder the templars had taken back Kirkwall while capturing the survivors.

Books are the Bioware developers' canon that do not interfere with individual gamers' choices. If Wynne died in Origins for one player, Asunder didn't happen for them as written.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:31 .

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Fair enough. A lot of people were still screwed. Mage ending may have is pros, but claiming that the templar one so much worse is just blatantly wrong, and I actually go with the mage one most times.

[Face of Evil]

Hawke set a goal and achieved it. He succeeded in his quest to find treasure in the Deep Roads.

Morocco Mole wrote...

I don't see how this is good.

I know you don't like Merrill, but some of us do.

Morocco Mole wrote...

Honestly doesn't matter either. The qunari issue would have solved itself with or without Hawke.

Debatable, given that the qunari had already slaughtered much of the resistance. At the very least, they would not have been beaten without destroying half the city first.

Hawke set out to stop the qunari invasion. He succeeds in that goal.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:32 .

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Cleary mages matter more then a full city. Don't argue about moral when yours is so screwed up.

It's not like the templar ending protects the city any better.

Which ending puts leadership back in quickly and starts to repair the damage done by Anders?

[Xilizhra]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Fair enough. A lot of people were still screwed. Mage ending may have is pros, but claiming that the templar one so much worse is just blatantly wrong, and I actually go with the mage one most times.

Forgive me, I'm just so picky about genocide.

Which ending puts leadership back in quickly and starts to repair the damage done by Anders?

Both, as Cullen'll wind up taking over in the mage ending. And the mage ending is the only one that can prevent any damage done by Meredith.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:33 .

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
It's true that not everything that Hawke does has an optimal outcome, because Hawke isn't precognitive and didn't know that a treasure expedition would wind up wrecking the whole city. But solving problems one caused without having any way to have known about them prior strikes me as being fine regardless.

And Merrill would have gotten killed by the varterral if not Marethari directly.

Which is fair enough but is pretty much solving one problem (a personal one and not even solving that one completely since that action causes his brother/sister to go to the templars/circle/wardens or end up dead) and causing several others isn't competent. You usually don't want someone solving one issue and making 4 more in the process working on your problems.

Um...what? While I doubt she'd done it easily I'm sure Merrill would've survived that fight. Even if she had to do it by retreating.

[Mr.House]

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Fair enough. A lot of people were still screwed. Mage ending may have is pros, but claiming that the templar one so much worse is just blatantly wrong, and I actually go with the mage one most times.

Forgive me, I'm just so picky about genocide.

It's bad to kill mages but it's fine to kill Templars. Xils logic, rock solid!

[Ryzaki]

cjones91 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Mage ending accomplishes nothing. Hawke doesn't save any mages, Orsino and Meredith making sure of that. All he does is screw a lof of people up (he and his companions included) and gives the mages some extra inspiration for their revolution.

Morality is a subjective thing.

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

And in Asunder the templars had taken back Kirkwall while capturing the survivors.

Wait seriously? LOL

Edit: I recall someone saying Asunder pretty much made DA2 pointless. Is that true? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:34 .

[Shadow Fox]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I want Gamlen DLC

Indiana Gams:lol: