355 réponses à ce sujet

[Face of Evil]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Half the city gets destroyed either way

Again, debatable. There is some damage done, but the casaulties could have been far greater. The city survives because of Hawke's intervention.

[Xilizhra]

Which is fair enough but is pretty much solving one problem (a personal one and not even solving that one completely since that action causes his brother/sister to go to the templars/circle/wardens or end up dead) and causing several others isn't competent. You usually don't want someone solving one issue and making 4 more in the process working on your problems.

Not all outcomes are optimal, but Hawke deals with it reasonably well.

It's bad to kill mages but it's fine to kill Templars. Xils logic, rock solid!

Mages=mostly civilians. Templars=universally combatants, and in this case, enemy ones.

To be fair, you advocate genocide all the time. Just replace mages with humans and templars with elves.

I think you got me mixed up with other posters, some of whom exist only in your imagination.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:35 .

[Gwydden]

Face of Evil wrote...

Debatable, given that the qunari had already slaughtered much of the resistance. At the very least, they would not have been beaten without destroying half the city first.

Hawke set out to stop the qunari invasion. He succeeds in that goal.

Actually, the qunari issue might not have even started without Hawke. He is the one who helped Isabella recover the tome, remember?

[AresKeith]

Xilizhra wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Explicitly wrong. Varric says of the mages in the epilogue "many survived to tell the tale."

Fair enough. A lot of people were still screwed. Mage ending may have is pros, but claiming that the templar one so much worse is just blatantly wrong, and I actually go with the mage one most times.

Forgive me, I'm just so picky about genocide.

Which ending puts leadership back in quickly and starts to repair the damage done by Anders?

Both, as Cullen'll wind up taking over in the mage ending. And the mage ending is the only one that can prevent any damage done by Meredith.

The fact that you support genocide period is scary

Templar ending still does them faster which is what he asked

[Xilizhra]

Templar ending still does them faster which is what he asked

Prove it.

Actually, the qunari issue might not have even started without Hawke. He
is the one who helped Isabella recover the tome, remember?

It blows up even if you don't recruit Isabela.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:36 .

[Face of Evil]

Gwydden wrote...

Actually, the qunari issue might not have even started without Hawke. He is the one who helped Isabella recover the tome, remember?

The qunari try to take over the city even if you don't meet up with Isabela in Act 1.

Hawke's involvement in the war ensures the conflict is resolved swiftly, without a protracted battle between the templars and the qunari that could honestly go either way.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...

Not all outcomes are optimal, but Hawke deals with it reasonably well.

Except it's not even a good outcome Hawke ends up with. It's decent (or terrible outcomes) which is pathetic (and to bring this back into the whole arguing about Hawke being sucky in a mary sue tidbit) and for me undesirable in a PC. (Especially with all that prerelease rise to power and most important person in Thedas BS marketing was spewing).

[Shadow Fox]

Gwydden wrote...

Face of Evil wrote...

Debatable, given that the qunari had already slaughtered much of the resistance. At the very least, they would not have been beaten without destroying half the city first.

Hawke set out to stop the qunari invasion. He succeeds in that goal.

Actually, the qunari issue might not have even started without Hawke. He is the one who helped Isabella recover the tome, remember?

But I didn't recruite her.So My Hawke's innocent.

[Xilizhra]

Ryzaki wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Not all outcomes are optimal, but Hawke deals with it reasonably well.

Except it's not even a good outcome Hawke ends up with. It's decent (or terrible outcomes) which is pathetic (and to bring this back into the whole arguing about Hawke being sucky in a mary sue tidbit) and for me undesirable in a PC. (Especially with all that prerelease rise to power and most important person in Thedas BS marketing was spewing).

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

[Gwydden]

My bad. Again. This only proves I haven't played the games in a long time.

[Gwydden]

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

[Shadow Fox]

Face of Evil wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Actually, the qunari issue might not have even started without Hawke. He is the one who helped Isabella recover the tome, remember?

The qunari try to take over the city even if you don't meet up with Isabela in Act 1.

Hawke's involvement in the war ensures the conflict is resolved swiftly, without a protracted battle between the templars and the qunari that could honestly go either way.

So Hawke gets rich and saves Kirkwall yup she's a hero.

[Ryzaki]

Xilizhra wrote...
The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

Doesn't make him/her to me anymore of a compelling or even decent protagonist. (much less a desirable one). Which was pretty much my point with the Mary Sue comment. I'd rather had a Mary Sue than Hawke.

[Hellion Rex]

Morocco Mole wrote...

You must admit though. It is really funny that Hawke probably can't even go to the bathroom without accidentally unleashing an evil crap demon on Kirkwall.

He really does have some bad luck.

[Shadow Fox]

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:45 .

[Xilizhra]

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well, maybe if your Hawke wasn't more or less on his side in terms of goals already. Mine avoids this.

So those posts about you wanting to murder humans in the Dales (or force them out of their homes and probably kill them if they refuse) so it will reverse the 'quickening' don't exist?

Not from me. I actually argued against expelling humans from the Dales.

Doesn't make him/her to me anymore of a compelling or even decent protagonist. (much less a desirable one). Which was pretty much my point with the Mary Sue comment. I'd rather had a Mary Sue than Hawke.

I find her compelling enough as a person.

[Ryzaki]

eluvianix wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

You must admit though. It is really funny that Hawke probably can't even go to the bathroom without accidentally unleashing an evil crap demon on Kirkwall.

He really does have some bad luck.

/dead

Well if nothing else Hawke's good for playing a complete hedonist who DGAF.


@Xili: to each their own. I didn't find Hawke's stumbling compelling in the least bit.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:46 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

I say that if hawke hadn't been involved in the plot, so many other bad things would happen. Because you have to think, he's such a failure with such a strong failure field, that it sabotages everyone's plans by proxy. His prescense causes bad things to happen to the bad guys by extension, whether he does something or not, so their plans **** up as much as his own. XD

He's like a giant wave of bad news. If not for him, bad plans and good plans alike would succeed, and everyone would be doomed in vastly different ways.

[Gwydden]

Ryzaki wrote...

Doesn't make him/her to me anymore of a compelling or even decent protagonist. (much less a desirable one). Which was pretty much my point with the Mary Sue comment. I'd rather had a Mary Sue than Hawke.

I still stand that the Warden wasn't that bad of a Mary Sue. COUGH, COUGH Shepard was! COUGH COUGH COUGH.

Ahem. Anyway, I do hope the Inquisitor is more balanced than the Warden or Hawke, but if he has to lean to one side of the failure/succes scale, I'd rather this time round he was a bit mor marysueish, if only for variety's sake.

[Face of Evil]

Ryzaki wrote...

Except it's not even a good outcome Hawke ends up with. It's decent (or terrible outcomes) which is pathetic (and to bring this back into the whole arguing about Hawke being sucky in a mary sue tidbit) and for me undesirable in a PC. (Especially with all that prerelease rise to power and most important person in Thedas BS marketing was spewing). 

This all comes down to personal preference. My belief is that the mage-templar conflict was basically inevitable and perhaps even necessary. I don't mind that Hawke couldn't stop it, because I think it was too big for any one person to resolve it.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 13 octobre 2013 - 02:51 .