355 réponses à ce sujet

[Gwydden]

Face of Evil wrote...

This all comes down to personal preference. My belief is that the mage-templar conflict was basically inevitable and perhaps even necessary. I don't mind that Hawke couldn't stop it, because I think it was too big for any one person to resolve it.

Any protagonist can and should fail from time to time. But having a record of little more than failures or limited succeses that eventually caused more problems than they solve is an entirely different matter.

[AresKeith]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Not his fault Hawke gave him the stupid

[Ryzaki]

Gwydden wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Doesn't make him/her to me anymore of a compelling or even decent protagonist. (much less a desirable one). Which was pretty much my point with the Mary Sue comment. I'd rather had a Mary Sue than Hawke.

I still stand that the Warden wasn't that bad of a Mary Sue. COUGH, COUGH Shepard was! COUGH COUGH COUGH.

Ahem. Anyway, I do hope the Inquisitor is more balanced than the Warden or Hawke, but if he has to lean to one side of the failure/succes scale, I'd rather this time round he was a bit mor marysueish, if only for variety's sake.

Nah ME2 (which was far the best game in the series to me) was the height of Shep's sueness. ME3 had Shep be less of a Sue (and for me anyway made him less rootable). I mean...losing to Kai Leng and that gunship never fails to have me facepalm. It's just so bad. That and the canon friendships and nope nope nope.

The Warden was pretty bad but that's what made him/her awesome. Talking down centuries old feuds? Hell yes. Intimidating a desire demon into teaching me bloodmagic and getting the hell out of dodge? Yes. Saving Conner and his boneheaded mother? Yes. +100 approval with all of my companions? YES PLEASE. Ending the Blight and getting the girl/guy and staying alive? Yes. Or having epic heroic death and having his/her lover mourn? YEEES. I liked the Warden's "I can do the damn impossible and you just sit and watch." factor.

Agreed. I don't want the Inquisitor to be a super sue like the Warden (there can only be one!) but I really hope the devs don't go completely in the other direction like Hawke.

[Face of Evil]

Honestly, if you guys think Hawke was a constant screw-up, you should try playing Spec Ops: The Line some time.

[Ryzaki]

Face of Evil wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Except it's not even a good outcome Hawke ends up with. It's decent (or terrible outcomes) which is pathetic (and to bring this back into the whole arguing about Hawke being sucky in a mary sue tidbit) and for me undesirable in a PC. (Especially with all that prerelease rise to power and most important person in Thedas BS marketing was spewing). 

This all comes down to personal preference. My belief is that the mage-templar conflict was basically inevitable and perhaps even necessary. I don't mind that Hawke couldn't stop it, because I think it was too big for any one person to resolve it.

I don't mind Hawke not being able to stop the mage/templar conflict (besides Asunder is what really starts that Kirkwall was just a stepping stone).

I do mind Hawke not being able to stop (or attempt to stop and no I don't consider that terrible "Thank you for the warning champion." an attempt to stop if anyone Hawke should've went to Meredith) bad events again and again. Once or twice is fair enough but when it's a repeating factor it's just not compelling or interesting to me. I just hit the "Can't you do anything right? WHY AM I PAYING TO PLAY YOU This is not what was advertised to me!"

I have no issues playing downtrodden kicked by luck protagonists. But don't try to sell them to me as asskickers. Hawke had all the ingredients for asskicker but ended up downtrodden kicked by luck.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I don't share most people's antipathy towards Hawke or the belief that they were exclusively failures. I also don't think it's fair to blame Hawke for all the times someone else was responsible for Kirkwall's downward spiral, but the marketing in general was frustrating because it seemed to go out of it's way to give the exact opposite impression of the game itself, if it was their intent to make Hawke powerless to stop Kirkwall's descent to madness. Do we know if that was intentionally the theme the the story or just how it worked out because of how the story was structured?

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 13 octobre 2013 - 03:03 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

Malcom should never have messed with that tiki idol, it cursed all of his family to fail at everything they do.

[LobselVith8]

Morocco Mole wrote...

I think you got me mixed up with other posters, some of whom exist only in your imagination.

So those posts about you wanting to murder humans in the Dales (or force them out of their homes and probably kill them if they refuse) so it will reverse the 'quickening' don't exist?

Actually, Xil opposed relocating humans out of the Dales, if an elven rebellion reclaimed sovereignty of the kingdom. For some reason, however, you continually claim otherwise in a myriad of threads.

[Hellion Rex]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Malcom should never have messed with that tiki idol, it cursed all of his family to fail at everything they do.

What?

[Face of Evil]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Malcom should never have messed with that tiki idol, it cursed all of his family to fail at everything they do.

DAMN YOU TIKI IDOL!

[Gwydden]

I think the way to sum up almost everyone's conclusions regarding the original topic is that the only Mary Sue the Amells ever had was the Amell Warden, who potentially wasn't any more than a random Circle mage who most likely died.

Peace.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Lothering got destroyed because of Hawke

that was good.

[The Hierophant]

Anyone remember Hawke's excuse for ignoring Emmeric for three years?

[Cainhurst Crow]

The Hierophant wrote...

Anyone remember Hawke's excuse for ignoring Emmeric for three years?

"I was trying to tie my shoes and ended up in nevarra." - Hawke. Act 2.

[Xilizhra]

The Hierophant wrote...

Anyone remember Hawke's excuse for ignoring Emmeric for three years?

Emeric never asked Hawke for anything in three years.

[The Hierophant]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

The Hierophant wrote...

Anyone remember Hawke's excuse for ignoring Emmeric for three years?

"I was trying to tie my shoes and ended up in nevarra." - Hawke. Act 2.

lol it's easy to imagine this being a sarcastic Hawke's reply.

@Xil - my fault i mixed Hawke up with Aveline.

[Boycott Bioware]

I love Amell family, i want to play as Amell again in DA:I to complete Amell trilogy

I have been replayed DA2 many times, last one Bethany dead in Deep Road, i feel sympathy for Hawke and Solona Amell

Solona Amell, never know her own family, imprisoned in the Circle, become a pawn in Circle-Chantry political game, got played by her own best friend, assumed will become a Tranquil the only way out is get tainted by Duncan, she don't know she can only live for 30 years until Alistair told her about it, she burdened by responsibility to save everyone, but still hated as a Mage, involve in Ferelden politic but cannot become a Queen...because she's a Mage

Hawke, begin as charming and joyful girl, her brother killed by Orge, her uncle cheat her mom wealth make them live poorly, have to work to pay a debt, then her sister dead in Deep Road killed by her own hand, her mom dead killed by Blood Mage, her friends use her for something then blame her for everything, the Viscount always ask her to do things involve her in Kirkwal politic and it's not her job anyway, become a Qunari and Chantry pawn, then forced to involve in Mage-Templar conflict, become Meredith pawn, lied by her own boyfriend who become a terrorist an make her involve in the scheme, betrayed by her friends, betrayed by the one she sided with...in the end she fall to nothing

Modifié par Qistina, 13 octobre 2013 - 04:06 .

[AresKeith]

Glad the Amell's aren't that special

I do hope to see or hear about the Couslands in DA:I

[d-boy15]

Mages=mostly civilians. Templars=universally combatants, and in this case, enemy ones.

Civilians can't throw fireball from their hand... not to mention transform in to demon.

Mages in Kirkwall are no more innocent than Templar, it's clearly they practice blood magic like Meredith suspected
(but not all of them).

Modifié par d-boy15, 13 octobre 2013 - 05:07 .

[jnthn0584]

AresKeith wrote...

Glad the Amell's aren't that special

I do hope to see or hear about the Couslands in DA:I

And what makes the Couslands worth a second game? All but two of them being rutlessly mudered, and one of them being killed by an archdemon (assuming he stuck to the moral high ground)? Frankly unless you're going to be playing as Fergus I don't see how they can add another Cousland to the game. Seriously; aside from the Warden all that family ever did was die.

[Rawgrim]

d-boy15 wrote...

Mages=mostly civilians. Templars=universally combatants, and in this case, enemy ones.

Civilians can't throw fireball from their hand... not to mention transform in to demon.

Mages in Kirkwall are no more innocent than Templar, it's clearly they practice blood magic like Meredith suspected
(but not all of them).

True. its either blood magic or no magic, with the Kirkwall mages. Even if you support them at every turn, they attack you. No wonder Meredith gets suspicius.

[AresKeith]

jnthn0584 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Glad the Amell's aren't that special

I do hope to see or hear about the Couslands in DA:I

And what makes the Couslands worth a second game? All but two of them being rutlessly mudered, and one of them being killed by an archdemon (assuming he stuck to the moral high ground)? Frankly unless you're going to be playing as Fergus I don't see how they can add another Cousland to the game. Seriously; aside from the Warden all that family ever did was die.

Except I never said anything about playing as them, since we're gonna be in Ferelden it would be nice to hear about them

[jnthn0584]

AresKeith wrote...

jnthn0584 wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Glad the Amell's aren't that special

I do hope to see or hear about the Couslands in DA:I

And what makes the Couslands worth a second game? All but two of them being rutlessly mudered, and one of them being killed by an archdemon (assuming he stuck to the moral high ground)? Frankly unless you're going to be playing as Fergus I don't see how they can add another Cousland to the game. Seriously; aside from the Warden all that family ever did was die.

Except I never said anything about playing as them, since we're gonna be in Ferelden it would be nice to hear about them

Ah, true enough. And if you managed to make a human/noble Warden the king/queen, I imagine we'd certainly hear something on the subject.

[KC_Prototype]

I would of loved to continued the Amell Family.

[d-boy15]

Face of Evil wrote...

Honestly, if you guys think Hawke was a constant screw-up, you should try playing Spec Ops: The Line some time.

"Do you feel like a hero yet?"

If Bioware can write Hawke to screw up that cool, I wounldn't mind at all.