355 réponses à ce sujet

[Face of Evil]

"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you."

[Lord Raijin]

AresKeith wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Not his fault Hawke gave him the stupid

Sure blame Hawke for Cullens own stupidity. It's nice blaming others for their own error. If anyone is a Mary sue Cullen is the perfect example of one.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Not his fault Hawke gave him the stupid

Sure blame Hawke for Cullens own stupidity. It's nice blaming others for their own error. If anyone is a Mary sue Cullen is the perfect example of one.

Yes, his mary sueness of being captured, tortured, and left traumatized at the hands of abominations and demons.

[Star fury]

Morocco Mole wrote...

So all those mages I rescued and later went crazy and turned into bloodmages don't count?

Argh! That was the most frustrating part of the story, every single mage you help turns into a blood mage. Famed biower writers dropped the ball hard with it.

Modifié par Star fury, 13 octobre 2013 - 07:58 .

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Not his fault Hawke gave him the stupid

Sure blame Hawke for Cullens own stupidity. It's nice blaming others for their own error. If anyone is a Mary sue Cullen is the perfect example of one.

Yes, his mary sueness of being captured, tortured, and left traumatized at the hands of abominations and demons.

We all know Cullen is a male version of a damsel in distress. I mean he became very unstable after the incident in the tower, and his Commander sent him (Saved him) off to Kirkwall to serve under Meredith. He becomes the Knight-Captain who was completely blind to the current situation with his boss. Thrask would've made a far better Captain Than Cullen.

Modifié par Lord Raijin, 13 octobre 2013 - 08:20 .

[Lord Raijin]

Morocco Mole wrote...
You know that part in the thread where several people pointed out that people tend to label characters they don't like Mary Sues?

Well, here we go.

I believe you've missquoted me. I did not call Cullen stupid and I honestly don't hate the man... just that I view his role in the Dragon Age series to be very minor.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Lord Raijin wrote...

AresKeith wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

The thing is that none of it was due to bad logic on Hawke's part, but bad and incomplete information. I can't really blame Hawke for that.

So... standing by while Anders obviusly prepares something shady is not bad logic?

Well you can tell Cullen who does nothing.

Not his fault Hawke gave him the stupid

Sure blame Hawke for Cullens own stupidity. It's nice blaming others for their own error. If anyone is a Mary sue Cullen is the perfect example of one.

Yes, his mary sueness of being captured, tortured, and left traumatized at the hands of abominations and demons.

We all know Cullen is a male version of a damsel in distress. I mean he became very unstable after the incident in the tower, and his Commander sent him (Saved him) off to Kirkwall to serve under Meredith. He becomes the Knight-Captain who was completely blind to the current situation with his boss. Thrask would've made a far better Captain Than Cullen.

I don't believe insubordination and off the record operations are knight captian material to be perfectly frank. And way to downplay what happened in the tower and expecting it to not effect him at all. Or for him to somehow be a match for an army of abomination when previously he'd never even seen one before.

[Squire]

I don't actually know who the Amells are, but a Mary Sue generally possesses several of the following traits:

1) Has more or less no flaws, or has flaws that either don't impact the story (e.g. being afraid of spiders in a story where no spiders ever make an appearance), or are somehow turned into an endearing trait (e.g. lacking the confidence to know that you're amazing at everything);

2) Is amazing at everything - or at least everything that matters, and if there's something which she's not amazing at, she'll soon become amazing at it with very little training;

3) Is incredibly beautiful - not just attractive but makes the world's most beautiful ladies pale in comparison, and usually features exotic traits such as unusual coloured eyes and multi-tinted hair (none of which cause her to be seen as abnormal but simply enhance her beauty);

4) Is adored by everyone - everywhere she goes, men fawn over her, fall in love with her and attempt to win her heart *cough* Danaerys Targaryen *cough*;

5) Possesses remarkable bravado (or "spunk"), and commonly rebukes members of high authority with no consequences - King Richard III can only stand in stunned silence as she insults the pants off him, then walks out of the throne room while the Royal guards admire her "spunk";

6) Can convince anyone to change sides - put her in bed with the main antagonist, and by the end of the 23 page long badly written sex scene, the antagonist will abandon his plans and fight for the side of good;

7) Possesses unrealistically modern values for the period, and will discuss matters of anti-slavery, sexism, vegetarianism and the dangers of smoking, in Roman Britain;

8) Possesses some kind of innate power that she can unleash whenever the plot deems it convenient - this power generally manifests itself as an all-purpose "do what I want it to" spell, and comes from either an exotic bloodline, an inner divinity, or even simply "twu wuv".

Finally, Mary Sue is a distinctly female term. There are male variants, known as Gary Stus.

Modifié par Squire, 13 octobre 2013 - 08:29 .

[Shadow Fox]

Star fury wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

So all those mages I rescued and later went crazy and turned into bloodmages don't count?

Argh! That was the most frustrating part of the story, every single mage you help turns into a blood mage. Famed biower writers dropped the ball hard with it.

Well there's Fen and that Mage girl you save from being made a sex slave.

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't believe insubordination and off the record operations are knight captian material to be perfectly frank. And way to downplay what happened in the tower and expecting it to not effect him at all. Or for him to somehow be a match for an army of abomination when previously he'd never even seen one before.

Base on what we saw in DA2 forcing your Commander to step down is not an act of an insubordination if the cause of properable, which it was.

If Cullen wasn't able to mentally handle a group of abominations (Doesn't the Order train their templars to deal with Abominations?!?!?!??!?!?!) then he is not mentally fit to be a Templar. Perhabs being a guard suits him well.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't believe insubordination and off the record operations are knight captian material to be perfectly frank. And way to downplay what happened in the tower and expecting it to not effect him at all. Or for him to somehow be a match for an army of abomination when previously he'd never even seen one before.

Base on what we saw in DA2 forcing your Commander to step down is not an act of an insubordination if the cause of properable, which it was.

If Cullen wasn't able to mentally handle a group of abominations (Doesn't the Order train their templars to deal with Abominations?!?!?!??!?!?!) then he is not mentally fit to be a Templar. Perhabs being a guard suits him well.

Trask seemed to be rather overly-critical of meredith's actions even before she ever got the idol in her possession. More damning however was that, for the most part, she was right about the mages being corrupted and there indeed beging blood mages in their midst.

And as stated in the mage recruitment mission, they are equiped to deal with 1 or 2 abominations at a time, but that they came in such large numbers the templars were overwhealmed. That's not even going into the fact that blood mages were attacking throughout the tower levels when uldred decided to summon a pride demon and got possessed. And than everything really went to hell when full blown demons began to cross into our world from the fade. The templars are a military order designed to combat magic embued enemies, but even the most well trained of armies can end up crumbling when faced with superior numbers and firepower.

And for someone who supposedly couldn't mentally handle being a templar, he seemed to do a well enough job to last for days under constant mental torture that broke every other templar but him, if only barely. I find you lack respect for the ordeal that those in the fereldan endured.

Modifié par Darth Brotarian, 13 octobre 2013 - 08:50 .

[Johnny_TYS38]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

I don't believe insubordination and off the record operations are knight captian material to be perfectly frank. And way to downplay what happened in the tower and expecting it to not effect him at all. Or for him to somehow be a match for an army of abomination when previously he'd never even seen one before.

If you have a boss like knight commander meredith, I would not be susprise to see any form of insubordination. What ser Thrask was trying to do was to have compromise between the templars and mages in his own way since all meredith care is to discrimate, suspecting and wanting to purge all the mages in kirkwall circle of magi. Too bad, it did not work. What was cullen doing during this period of time? I felt like he is just like a puppet, obeying orders from both the knight commander and the chantry. Never question about it. The only good thing that he had done was going against meredith at the last part of act 3 which come out of nowhere. 

Modifié par Johnny_TYS38, 13 octobre 2013 - 08:53 .

[Cainhurst Crow]

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

[wolfhowwl]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...
You know that part in the thread where several people pointed out that people tend to label characters they don't like Mary Sues?

Well, here we go.

I believe you've missquoted me. I did not call Cullen stupid and I honestly don't hate the man... just that I view his role in the Dragon Age series to be very minor.

He's saying that you don't understand what a Mary Sue is at all (You don't).

As for Thrask, what happened to him again? Ah yes, he got killed by his bloodmage coconspirator who also turned out to be a possessed by a pride demon! Trusting a mage worked out great for him. Excellent judgement on Thrask's part.

Modifié par wolfhowwl, 13 octobre 2013 - 09:10 .

[Johnny_TYS38]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

Trying to have a compromise is better than sitting around and do nothing. What was cullen doing when you have people such as ser alrik doing nasty thing like threatening mages with the tranquil solution? I am not saying that ser thrash should be knight captain but at least he try doing something unlike cullen 

[Cainhurst Crow]

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

Trying to have a compromise is better than sitting around and do nothing. What was cullen doing when you have people such as ser alrik doing nasty thing like threatening mages with the tranquil solution? I am not saying that ser thrash should be knight captain but at least he try doing something unlike cullen 

He tried it in a very stupid, naive way, that reflected on his overall view of the issue. He was overly trusting, and nade mistakes in judgement that cost a lot of people their lives, and only seemed to get less wise and more bleeding heartedly stupid as time went on.

Clearly, when his conspirators began using blood magic to kidnap your loved ones, he should have realized that his mages could not be trusted anymore. But poor naive trask didn't, and that's why I don't care about him or his attempts to compromise.

[Johnny_TYS38]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

Trying to have a compromise is better than sitting around and do nothing. What was cullen doing when you have people such as ser alrik doing nasty thing like threatening mages with the tranquil solution? I am not saying that ser thrash should be knight captain but at least he try doing something unlike cullen 

He tried it in a very stupid, naive way, that reflected on his overall view of the issue. He was overly trusting, and nade mistakes in judgement that cost a lot of people their lives, and only seemed to get less wise and more bleeding heartedly stupid as time went on.

Clearly, when his conspirators began using blood magic to kidnap your loved ones, he should have realized that his mages could not be trusted anymore. But poor naive trask didn't, and that's why I don't care about him or his attempts to compromise.

At least he did tried and was unfortunatly he got killed. What about cullen? Other than turing against the knight commander, did he tried to do anything to help with the situation between the templars and mages? He did have bad experience when the circle in ferelden was infested with demons and abomination but letting one incident affect his view of the mages is just him being narrow minded.  

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Trask seemed to be rather overly-critical of meredith's actions even before she ever got the idol in her possession. More damning however was that, for the most part, she was right about the mages being corrupted and there indeed beging blood mages in their midst.

And as stated in the mage recruitment mission, they are equiped to deal with 1 or 2 abominations at a time, but that they came in such large numbers the templars were overwhealmed. That's not even going into the fact that blood mages were attacking throughout the tower levels when uldred decided to summon a pride demon and got possessed. And than everything really went to hell when full blown demons began to cross into our world from the fade. The templars are a military order designed to combat magic embued enemies, but even the most well trained of armies can end up crumbling when faced with superior numbers and firepower.

And for someone who supposedly couldn't mentally handle being a templar, he seemed to do a well enough job to last for days under constant mental torture that broke every other templar but him, if only barely. I find you lack respect for the ordeal that those in the fereldan endured.

Just as she planned it. To drive every mage in Kirkwall insane with her strict rules and tightening up their leashes; to force them to become corrupted so she can have an excuse to purge them. Thrask was far better level headed then anyone in the Order. The fact that he did not allow his abomination daughter go over his head proves it whereas Meredith took her anger over the death of her family out on mages, and not herself.

The Templars of Circle Tower were incredibly weak. You have a Templar who was in the process of being corrupted by a desire demon and the rest were slaughtered. To think that the Templars are suppose to be vigilant is laughable at best. If you're going to treat the Circle like a prison then you should be able to handle a riot type of situation. That includes dealing with Abominations and other demons. Don't they teach that in Templar training school?

[Cainhurst Crow]

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

Trying to have a compromise is better than sitting around and do nothing. What was cullen doing when you have people such as ser alrik doing nasty thing like threatening mages with the tranquil solution? I am not saying that ser thrash should be knight captain but at least he try doing something unlike cullen 

He tried it in a very stupid, naive way, that reflected on his overall view of the issue. He was overly trusting, and nade mistakes in judgement that cost a lot of people their lives, and only seemed to get less wise and more bleeding heartedly stupid as time went on.

Clearly, when his conspirators began using blood magic to kidnap your loved ones, he should have realized that his mages could not be trusted anymore. But poor naive trask didn't, and that's why I don't care about him or his attempts to compromise.

At least he did tried and was unfortunatly he got killed. What about cullen? Other than turing against the knight commander, did he tried to do anything to help with the situation between the templars and mages? He did have bad experience when the circle in ferelden was infested with demons and abomination but letting one incident affect his view of the mages is just him being narrow minded.  

You know who else "tried" to make things better? Anders, and look what that **** face did to do it. Thrask is a fool, and he died like a fool. It doesn't matter what he was trying when, in the end, he just made things worse.

And one incident? That's like saying soliders shouldn't let their one incident of fighting in the war give them PTSD. Going through horrible things can leave a person scarred mentally, and trying to play off that event like nothing shows quite a bit of disrespect.

[Cainhurst Crow]

Lord Raijin wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Trask seemed to be rather overly-critical of meredith's actions even before she ever got the idol in her possession. More damning however was that, for the most part, she was right about the mages being corrupted and there indeed beging blood mages in their midst.

And as stated in the mage recruitment mission, they are equiped to deal with 1 or 2 abominations at a time, but that they came in such large numbers the templars were overwhealmed. That's not even going into the fact that blood mages were attacking throughout the tower levels when uldred decided to summon a pride demon and got possessed. And than everything really went to hell when full blown demons began to cross into our world from the fade. The templars are a military order designed to combat magic embued enemies, but even the most well trained of armies can end up crumbling when faced with superior numbers and firepower.

And for someone who supposedly couldn't mentally handle being a templar, he seemed to do a well enough job to last for days under constant mental torture that broke every other templar but him, if only barely. I find you lack respect for the ordeal that those in the fereldan endured.

Just as she planned it. To drive every mage in Kirkwall insane with her strict rules and tightening up their leashes; to force them to become corrupted so she can have an excuse to purge them. Thrask was far better level headed then anyone in the Order. The fact that he did not allow his abomination daughter go over his head proves it whereas Meredith took her anger over the death of her family out on mages, and not herself.

The Templars of Circle Tower were incredibly weak. You have a Templar who was in the process of being corrupted by a desire demon and the rest were slaughtered. To think that the Templars are suppose to be vigilant is laughable at best. If you're going to treat the Circle like a prison then you should be able to handle a riot type of situation. That includes dealing with Abominations and other demons. Don't they teach that in Templar training school?

Your apologist agenda has no place here, Begone!

[Lord Raijin]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

You know who else "tried" to make things better? Anders, and look what that **** face did to do it. Thrask is a fool, and he died like a fool. It doesn't matter what he was trying when, in the end, he just made things worse.

And one incident? That's like saying soliders shouldn't let their one incident of fighting in the war give them PTSD. Going through horrible things can leave a person scarred mentally, and trying to play off that event like nothing shows quite a bit of disrespect.

Can't be any worst than what Cullen did by doing absolutely NOTHING when his boss was going crazy. He just stood around in the gallows looking pretty at his fan girls.

[Johnny_TYS38]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Johnny_TYS38 wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

So the man who trusted blood mages on good faith that they wouldn't abuse blood magic, and who intentionally hid the fact that his daughter was a mage, thus leading to her running away and transformation into an abomination in the first place, is the right man for the job.

But a tried and tested templar of, at the time, the worst circle compromise in the history of thedas, caused by one of these libertarians mind you, and someone who follows the chain of command and obeys the law is not.

Just because you like thrask as a person, doesn't mean he's qualified to be a knight captain at all. A lot of his insubordination was before meredith ever actually began cracking down hard on mages. And more importantly, was done with full knowledge he was putting the mages of the circle, the people of kirkwall, and the templars in mortal danger.

Trying to have a compromise is better than sitting around and do nothing. What was cullen doing when you have people such as ser alrik doing nasty thing like threatening mages with the tranquil solution? I am not saying that ser thrash should be knight captain but at least he try doing something unlike cullen 

He tried it in a very stupid, naive way, that reflected on his overall view of the issue. He was overly trusting, and nade mistakes in judgement that cost a lot of people their lives, and only seemed to get less wise and more bleeding heartedly stupid as time went on.

Clearly, when his conspirators began using blood magic to kidnap your loved ones, he should have realized that his mages could not be trusted anymore. But poor naive trask didn't, and that's why I don't care about him or his attempts to compromise.

At least he did tried and was unfortunatly he got killed. What about cullen? Other than turing against the knight commander, did he tried to do anything to help with the situation between the templars and mages? He did have bad experience when the circle in ferelden was infested with demons and abomination but letting one incident affect his view of the mages is just him being narrow minded.  

You know who else "tried" to make things better? Anders, and look what that **** face did to do it. Thrask is a fool, and he died like a fool. It doesn't matter what he was trying when, in the end, he just made things worse.

And one incident? That's like saying soliders shouldn't let their one incident of fighting in the war give them PTSD. Going through horrible things can leave a person scarred mentally, and trying to play off that event like nothing shows quite a bit of disrespect.

So letting people like meredith and alrik be loose canon is a good thing and people trying to make things better like thrask and anders are bad. Anders has the right intention which is to let mages have freedom like normal people but the way he excuted it was wrong. Threask have good intention of having a compromise between templars and mages but the plan backfired. 

Cullen did let one incident affect him. He was talking about it most of the time in the game. Again what was he doing when everything was going on? Nothing. He just stand there waiting for orders from meredith like a puppet 

Modifié par Johnny_TYS38, 13 octobre 2013 - 09:56 .