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[leaguer of one]

cjones91 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

What the hell does Mary Sue mean? Someone really...break that down? If it means perfect, I dont think Amell' s are perfect. What's perfect about them?

More of a writers pet. It's a clear favortisum to a character in the writing and from other characters in the story.

The Amells are'nt writer's pets though,the Couslands are.

I'm sorry...But what? They kill off all but 2 people at the most out of the family and some how they are the favorate?

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

That does not mean mary sue. You can say the dalish warden, The dwarven noble warden and the Human mage warden is the same.

They are not mary sues.

[Melca36]

Gwydden wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

The Couslands are extremely important nobles that everyone in Fereldan respects,the Human Noble has the most screentime in DAO as he/she is more involved with the Loghain/Howe plot than the other origins.You could become Queen/King and have a mistress on the side if you're playing as the Male Cousland.So yeah the Couslands are more of a writer's pet than the Amells imo.

Yes, they get more content. On the other hand, they have the most cliched, and by far the less interesting, origin.

Its trendy to hate Couslands.

[Gwydden]

Melca36 wrote...

Its trendy to hate Couslands.

I quite like the Cousland origin, actually. The origin story itself doesn't have the execution of the others, being rather linear, which is what I think takes away from it the most. But it remains the one more involved with the story, and the unique content it gets is pretty awesome.

Too bad the human barbarian never came to be.

[AlexanderCousland]

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

[LobselVith8]

iakus wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

That's simply not true. As I stated somewhere else some time ago, only two of the seven posible backgrounds in Origins were from Ferelden (human noble and city elf). 

There is one other.

Suranis (the elf mage) was born in the Denerim alienage, according to conversations you can have.

Surana can come from the Denerim Alienage, but your elven mage actually has options to express that he (or she) from another location as well (or to admit that your protagonist doesn't remember where he - or she - came from).

[Gwydden]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Surana can come from the Denerim Alienage, but your elven mage actually has options to express that he (or she) from another location as well (or to admit that your protagonist doesn't remember where he - or she - came from).

Interesting. Do you mean he could come from other cities, or from other countries? Could you say specific locations or just "somewhere other than Ferelden"? Just curiousity.

[Face of Evil]

It'd be nice if Inquisition had some easter eggs for the people whose Wardens didn't have the last name Amel or Mahariel.

I feel sorry for the poor Broscas. Their family doesn't even get an offhand mention in a DLC or anything.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 12 octobre 2013 - 08:08 .

[Shadow Fox]

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

[Gwydden]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Not really, and not until you reach Denerim. Howe was a personal friend of Cousland's family, and you meet him as soon as the game begins.

[leaguer of one]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Yep. If I could delay killing him to kill him slowly as a Commonder Elf I would.

[AtreiyaN7]

You can pick a dwarf/elf/random human who isn't an Amell and have almost exactly the same experience overall as someone who IS an Amell in DA:O. There are also other families who play a more prominent role than a schlubby Amell in DA:O.

For example, if you decide to be a female Cousland, you can marry Alistair and rule Ferelden - which has to be the most Mary Sue-like outcome possible. And if the player chooses a dwarven noble, then you're an Aeducan for chrissake. Don't they both have even MORE major ties to what happens in DA:O than a mage Amell from the Tower does?

I think any accusation of Amells being Mary Sues probably just stems from people who either don't like mages, don't like Hawke, or don't like DA2 - especially since Malcolm had a role in the Wardens and was involved in containing Corypheus. It seems to me that it's all too easy to throw around the term "Mary Sue" in order to dismiss/discredit a character or to just use it as a way to vent.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 13 octobre 2013 - 05:22 .

[RobRam10]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Nah.

[leaguer of one]

Gwydden wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Not really, and not until you reach Denerim. Howe was a personal friend of Cousland's family, and you meet him as soon as the game begins.

Ofcousre the commoner elf does.  The second they her the aleinage in closed off and is in a middle of a purge and Howe is behind it is the second it becoame personal. More so when he tells them that Elves are animal to be put down.

[leaguer of one]

RobRam10 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Nah.

So having a purge set on the place you were raised in is not enough to hate Howe?

[frankf43]

leaguer of one wrote...

RobRam10 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Nah.

So having a purge set on the place you were raised in is not enough to hate Howe?

Yes it's reason enough to hate him but it's not as big a deal as murdering your mother, father, sister-in-law and young nephew.  I've played both origins.  As the city elf I always hated Vaughan more than I hated Howe. While as a Cousland my main goal throughout the game was to gut Howe like the lowdown dirty snake that he is.

[Gold Dragon]

leaguer of one wrote...

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

Couslands > Amells

That is all.

Surana > Couslands > Amells

Tabris>Surana > Couslands > Amells

(Kalliana) Tabris is Dead, (Neria) Surana (and Selena Amell, too) is Chancellor, and (Elyndra) Cousland is Queen. 

[leaguer of one]

frankf43 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

RobRam10 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Nah.

So having a purge set on the place you were raised in is not enough to hate Howe?

Yes it's reason enough to hate him but it's not as big a deal as murdering your mother, father, sister-in-law and young nephew.  I've played both origins.  As the city elf I always hated Vaughan more than I hated Howe. While as a Cousland my main goal throughout the game was to gut Howe like the lowdown dirty snake that he is.

But you can out right kill Vaughan. The matter with him can be well settled by Dederum reentry.  

[Leo]

Gwydden wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Surana can come from the Denerim Alienage, but your elven mage actually has options to express that he (or she) from another location as well (or to admit that your protagonist doesn't remember where he - or she - came from).

Interesting. Do you mean he could come from other cities, or from other countries? Could you say specific locations or just "somewhere other than Ferelden"? Just curiousity.

If I remeber correctly an Elf Mage can mention being from either Denerim, Lothering, or having no memory of where he/she is from.

[Gwydden]

Pious_Augustine wrote...

If I remeber correctly an Elf Mage can mention being from either Denerim, Lothering, or having no memory of where he/she is from.

Thanks!

[LobselVith8]

Pious_Augustine wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

LobselVith8 wrote...

Surana can come from the Denerim Alienage, but your elven mage actually has options to express that he (or she) from another location as well (or to admit that your protagonist doesn't remember where he - or she - came from).

Interesting. Do you mean he could come from other cities, or from other countries? Could you say specific locations or just "somewhere other than Ferelden"? Just curiousity. 

If I remeber correctly an Elf Mage can mention being from either Denerim, Lothering, or having no memory of where he/she is from. 

Yes, in conversation with Eadric and the Mad Hermit.

[Gwydden]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Yes, in conversation with Eadric and the Mad Hermit.

Still, considering that the only memories he can have are of either Denerim or Lothering, the Surana Warden is almost certainly Fereldan.

[frankf43]

leaguer of one wrote...

frankf43 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

RobRam10 wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

FreshIstay wrote...

Whoa. Cousland's are definitely the most Interesting Origin, not even close, the plot flows much smoother with a Cousland.

An Elven Warden has just as much a reason to hate Howe as a Cousland does.

Nah.

So having a purge set on the place you were raised in is not enough to hate Howe?

Yes it's reason enough to hate him but it's not as big a deal as murdering your mother, father, sister-in-law and young nephew.  I've played both origins.  As the city elf I always hated Vaughan more than I hated Howe. While as a Cousland my main goal throughout the game was to gut Howe like the lowdown dirty snake that he is.

But you can out right kill Vaughan. The matter with him can be well settled by Dederum reentry.  

As the city elf I did kill Vaughan and as a Cousland I killed Howe. As both I got my revenge on the person I held mostly responsible for what happened. By the way I also killed Bhelen as a Nobel dwarf.

[LobselVith8]

frankf43 wrote...

leaguer of one wrote...

So having a purge set on the place you were raised in is not enough to hate Howe? 

Yes it's reason enough to hate him but it's not as big a deal as murdering your mother, father, sister-in-law and young nephew.  I've played both origins.  As the city elf I always hated Vaughan more than I hated Howe. While as a Cousland my main goal throughout the game was to gut Howe like the lowdown dirty snake that he is.

Having friends and family killed in a purge - which is precisely what the purges entail, as we see with the massacre of the children in the orphanage - could be argued to be sufficient reason for an elven protagonist to hate Howe. You don't witness the events personally (as you do with the Cousland protagonist), but people who you loved and cared about could be dead, along with other members of a community you grew up with your entire life, whether your elven protagonist was raised in the Alienage, or is from the Circle and had family in the Alienage and only remembers them from childhood.

[frankf43]

I stated that it was reason to hate him but I am not aware of Howe being responsible for killing the Mother, Father, sister-in-law and cute young nephew who couldn't say sword correctly yet of the City Elf.

So even though the City elf has good reason to hate Howe, a Cousland has more reason to hate him.