355 réponses à ce sujet

[frankf43]

Foshizzlin wrote...

Howe was pretty awesome. Any Tim Curry villain is so loveably hateable.

Agreed

[cjones91]

simfamSP wrote...

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

Because it's only logical that they do. The Couslands are of noble birth, and a big part of the story is involved with Ferelden politics. It would be a mistake to allow the other origins a place on the throne. What is this? A free-for-all state? Why indulged in complex characters and court intrigue if they are going to throw the depth away for cheap power-fantasy?

And that makes the Cousland Warden a writer's pet since becoming king/queen+Warden Commander+Hero Of Fereldan trumps all of the origins except maybe the dwarven ones.

[The Hierophant]

cjones91 wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

Because it's only logical that they do. The Couslands are of noble birth, and a big part of the story is involved with Ferelden politics. It would be a mistake to allow the other origins a place on the throne. What is this? A free-for-all state? Why indulged in complex characters and court intrigue if they are going to throw the depth away for cheap power-fantasy?

And that makes the Cousland Warden a writer's pet since becoming king/queen+Warden Commander+Hero Of Fereldan trumps all of the origins except maybe the dwarven ones.

The HN isn't the writer's pet as their origin isn't required to complete the game or better understand the story. 

[Shadow Fox]

simfamSP wrote...

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

Because it's only logical that they do. The Couslands are of noble birth, and a big part of the story is involved with Ferelden politics. It would be a mistake to allow the other origins a place on the throne. What is this? A free-for-all state? Why indulged in complex characters and court intrigue if they are going to throw the depth away for cheap power-fantasy?

Actually he could have forced the issue if he was willing to deal with another rebellion/ kill /subjugate his opponents thus becoming a tyrant.

[Shadow Fox]

frankf43 wrote...

I stated that it was reason to hate him but I am not aware of Howe being responsible for killing the Mother, Father, sister-in-law and cute young nephew who couldn't say sword correctly yet of the City Elf.

So even though the City elf has good reason to hate Howe, a Cousland has more reason to hate him.

Howe sells Tabris' friends and family into slavery and makes their lives hell for monthes atleast a Cousland can take comfort in the fact that their family died somewhat quickly and can't suffer anymore whereas the Elder and Valora are forced into slavery for the rest of their lives.

[Rawgrim]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

Welcome to the world of fantasy storytelling, where every protagonist and their families are Mary Sues.

Notice any Mary-Sue characters in Game of Thrones?

Jon, Tyrion, Stannis, Daenerys, Varys, Ramsey.

My opinion IMO.

Jon Snow - Read book 5 and get back to me.

Stannis - Lost a huge battle. Has zero charisma (big weakness)

Dany isn`t really doing anything. She is immune to fire, yes. But I suspect that comes from The Lord of Light. We are constantly told of other Targaryans burning to death...

Varys - Gets bested quite abit by Littlefinger.

Ramsey - very very small part. Mostly just tortures Theon abit. Thats hardly a Mary Sue.

Tyrion gets his face smashed by an axe. Gets captured and alot of other stuff. Needs other people helping him to get out of trouble. Paying someone competent doesn`t make you a Mary Sue.

Modifié par Rawgrim, 12 octobre 2013 - 10:33 .

[Rawgrim]

leaguer of one wrote...

Rawgrim wrote...

Star fury wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...
Felicia Day created, wrote, and starred in Dragon Age Redemption as, you guessed it, Tallis. The special snowflake qunari assassin. Then, they made an entire DLC that focused entirely on said character.

David Gaider also wrote that they presented her three story arcs of Tallis and Felicia Day chose the one she liked the most.

The one where she completely takes charge of the story, and leaves Hawke as sidekick. She is also able to leap 70 through the air, from a stand still position. Mary Sue.

How the hell is Hawk the side kick and that was not 70 feet through the air. She is not a mary sue.
Calling her a mary sue is like calling Kasumi a mary sue.

She leaps a long distance backwards, and up atop a wall. If its 60 or 70 feet, it doesn`t matter. She has superhuman abilities for absolutely no reason at all.

[AlexanderCousland]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

Because it's only logical that they do. The Couslands are of noble birth, and a big part of the story is involved with Ferelden politics. It would be a mistake to allow the other origins a place on the throne. What is this? A free-for-all state? Why indulged in complex characters and court intrigue if they are going to throw the depth away for cheap power-fantasy?

Actually he could have forced the issue if he was willing to deal with another rebellion/ kill /subjugate his opponents thus becoming a tyrant.

I guess some people don't understand that their Race has an effect on your playthrough! Just because a Cousland can become King/Queen does not mean they are writer's pet's anymore or less than other origins.

[Rorschachinstein]

I adore the idea of the Amells being in the games, but not as a center piece. They already have a very cultured and prominent past, and it'd be shame to just stop talking about the Amells. Their family still has so much potential, I want to know more. So damn more

[Shadow Fox]

FreshIstay wrote...

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

Because the F/M Cousland has is more involved in the plot and can become Queen/King.No other origin can do that.

Because it's only logical that they do. The Couslands are of noble birth, and a big part of the story is involved with Ferelden politics. It would be a mistake to allow the other origins a place on the throne. What is this? A free-for-all state? Why indulged in complex characters and court intrigue if they are going to throw the depth away for cheap power-fantasy?

Actually he could have forced the issue if he was willing to deal with another rebellion/ kill /subjugate his opponents thus becoming a tyrant.

I guess some people don't understand that their Race has an effect on your playthrough! Just because a Cousland can become King/Queen does not mean they are writer's pet's anymore or less than other origins.

What? I'm simply saying he could have married a non-human or a Mage if he was willing to ignore the Archdemon,cause a new Civil War,exile the Chantry and fight an Exalted March and brutally oppress his people to the point where they would hope for his death.:innocent:

Modifié par Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke, 12 octobre 2013 - 11:05 .

[Gwydden]

Now that's true love.

[Shadow Fox]

Gwydden wrote...

Now that's true love.

:innocent:

[Face of Evil]

Mary Sue-any competent character I personally don't care for, as defined by the Internet

[Shadow Fox]

Face of Evil wrote...

Mary Sue-any competent character I personally don't care for, as defined by the Internet

I'd argue the Warden does have sueish traits though.

[Salaya]

What's a "Mary Sue" family?

[Gwydden]

And Hawke has anti-sueish traits. I hopes that's and indication that will finally get a balanced character for DAI.

[Shadow Fox]

Gwydden wrote...

And Hawke has anti-sueish traits. I hopes that's and indication that will finally get a balanced character for DAI.

According to some Hawke is a fail-sue make of that as you will.

[Face of Evil]

Oh, absolutely. Even Bioware lampshades it in-game when you meet Oghren for the first time and haven't previously spoken to him at Tapsters.

Warden: What does the Warden look like?

Oghren: Stout and muscular, but with a strong jaw and a bold nose, surrounded by a great glowing nimbus. If she's a woman, she might be more slight, but her eyes will shine with the light of purity and her large but chaste bosom will heave magnificently.

But my earlier point stands. The term "Mary Sue" has lost all relevance because of blatant mis-use.

[Seboist]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Hawke is the type of character a fanfiction writer writes when they are trying their hardest to avoid a Mary Sue and just inflict a lot of misery on someone to make you sympathize with them. So Anti-Sue is accurate.

Can't say I sympathize with the biggest useful idiot in Thedas.

[Gwydden]

Salaya wrote...

What's a "Mary Sue" family?

A character the author show extreme favoritism within the story. Kinda.

Modifié par Gwydden, 12 octobre 2013 - 11:20 .

[Face of Evil]

Morocco Mole wrote...

Hawke is the type of character a fanfiction writer writes when they are trying their hardest to avoid a Mary Sue and just inflict a lot of misery on someone to make you sympathize with them. So Anti-Sue is accurate.

No, not really. The Anti-Sue is still a Mary Sue but with the perfect traits replaced by hideous imperfection.

Plenty of people still talk up Hawke's accomplishments and level of skill, and the plot never bends over backwards to accomodate Hawke. If anything, Hawke is merely swept up in events beyond their control.

This is what I meant earlier by people mis-applying the "Mary Sue" label.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 12 octobre 2013 - 11:25 .

[jnthn0584]

So here is what I am getting out of all this; a certain group of disgruntled players are improperly using the term mary sue simply because they don’t want to be forced to play an Amell in DAI. I can understand that. But the logic there and all the negative vibes coming from it is pretty lame. It is literally no different than my saying that the new protagonist is a mary sue or some other type of trope or flaw because I in fact do want to play another Amell. Subjective opinions and all that.
 

That said I realize that it has been confirmed (or as confirmed as anything can get given the invisible “subject to change” asterisk  that hangs over the entire game industry like a blackened storm cloud) that you won’t get to play an Amell in Inquisition, but nevertheless how about a little thought experiment.

 
What if it was a choice? Just like in Origins. You have multiple backgrounds, maybe not even based on class this time, and being an Amell was simply one of them, and had no more impact on the story than being an Amell did in DA2; you get one or two throw-away comments from random NPCs and then it is forgotten. Zero actual impact on the game’s narrative, tone, or plot. Would those of you deadest against an Amell still be so….adamant, if that were the case?

Modifié par jnthn0584, 12 octobre 2013 - 11:51 .