14 réponses à ce sujet

[simomate2]

I am asking this question at both the NWN 1 and NWN 2 forums because I know I'll get bias answers on both forums. Obviously,
the dwellers in this forums would be more inclined to recommend NWN 2, and the dwellers of the other forum would be inclined to recommend NWN 1. It's not enough for you to simply give an answer though, you need to explain why.

I have a brief understanding of the pros and cons of both toolset. I think it boils down to this.

NWN 1

Pro: Faster Developmenttime
Con: Less powerful/more limited

NWN 2
Pro: More powerful
Con: Longer development time

So which would you recommend? I ask because I recently lost my old module AND it's back up. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/angry.png[/smilie] Tis my fault. Next time I ought to back it up more often. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/crying.png[/smilie]Anyway, I'd like to try a new project, but I'm not sure if I wanna do it on NWN 1- which I already have experience with- or NWN 2

[simomate2]

Edit: I should add that I'm learning towards the NWN 2 toolset, because my module will be very story and character based. The player will not be making their own character, but will be receviing a premade level 1 paladin with his own backstory and personality. (Multi-classing will be allowed though. So beyond starting with a level 1 paladin, the player is free to customize the character however they like.) Throughout the module, and in the style of the final fantasy games, the player will encounter several companions that will move the story. For the module, I wanted to allow the player to choose the companions stats upon leveling up, and control them also. NWN 2 allows this, but I believe NWN 1 doesn't. I was also planning on making the companions intergratel to the puzzle based dungeons. For example, in one dungeon, the companions, and the PC, would be seperated, and the player would have to switch between the PC/companions as he progresses through the dungeon. (Maybe there's a door that requires the wizard to open it.)

Also, another reason I was leaning towards NWN 2, is that a campagin can consist of multiple modules that you can return to. NWN 1 modules, on the other hand, are limited in this regard

[Tchos]

Okay, my bias is that I consider NWN2 to be the superior game. Why?

First, 3.5e rules > 3.0e rules.  Not much to explain about that one.  Other things:

I disagree that I could make modules faster in NWN1. I may spend less time on exteriors (or I may not), but spend more time fighting with the toolset's non-paletted interface, 1-use-per-conversation scripting, and trying to make it look the way I want it. If I were satisfied with unadorned, overlarge, tile-based building, I could very quickly build modules just as easily in NWN2 as in NWN1.

The UI for NWN2 is fully moddable, and I can make it both attractive and readable at high resolutions. To be able to read the dialogue in NWN1, I have to use a very low resolution.

I despise radial menus, as NWN1 uses. I find the NWN2 interface to be the best interface of all D&D-based games I've played, above NWN1, above ToEE, above Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale, above the Gold Box games, etc.

NWN2 has great systems like the SoZ party chat system, MotB resting system, and the SoZ overland map. The party chat alone adds volumes to the RP aspect of modules, when used well.

NWN2 has fully controllable/possessable companions/party members, as in the Infinity Engine games, Dragon Age: Origins, etc. NWN1 has henchmen that cannot be directly controlled. For D&D based games, especially since I prefer to play squishy spellcasters, I want a full party, not to run through it solo or with uncontrollable henchmen. That, above all, is why I find NWN2 superior to NWN1.

Modifié par Tchos, 13 octobre 2013 - 01:03 .

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

For me, the real clincher is the better conversation editor in NWN2. As Tchos mentioned, in NWN you have to write a custom script to do every little in a convo, but NWN2 you can use stock script to do most basic things, just by filling in the parameters right there in the convo editor. In NWN, though, it really kills the flow of writing a convo to stop every 5 minutes to write a new script.

Aside from that, though, you have consider what you need for your module. NWN2 has the better terrain, but NWN w/CEP has more creatures and items. I'd suggest you look around the custom content on the vault, and try to figure out what you need and what you can live without. Look at the prefabs for NWN2, and then the tilesets for NWN, and decide which can provide a workable setting for your story.

[Morbane]

 Answer: NWN2
Explanation: because 

[diophant]

IMHO, the main point for NWN2 is that the game is newer, and your module might therefore get more downloads. However, this advantage is decreasing with NWN2 becoming older as well. Maybe you might consider to switch to a completely different toolset, like DAO (which I never used, so I cannot tell much about it).
Apart from that, another pro for NWN2 is that the game looks much better. If you are a talented artist, you can make increadible areas. However, you must take your time. Creating a good NWN2 outdoor area takes several times as long as creating one in NWN1. If you're not willing to spend that time, rather use NWN1.
If you are not a good scripter, the huge amount of premade scripts in NWN2 is a big advantage. The parameterized conversation scripts speeds up writing convos. I am an experienced programmer, so writing a lot of scripts in NWN1 didn't bother me much, so this point was rather small for me.
One big point for NWN1 is that more content is available, first there are much more creatures in the toolset, then there are tons of user-made content in the vault.
Another point is the better patch level of NWN1. The final patch of NWN2 still feels unfinished, and I often had to script hacks for open bugs. I rarely had to do this for NWN1.

So I cannot recommend one toolset over the other. It depends on your skills and on what you want to achieve.

[kamal_]

diophant wrote...

IMHO, the main point for NWN2 is that the game is newer, and your module might therefore get more downloads.

I can't find the post but I actually checked the numbers not too long ago as a question along these lines had come up from someone else in the nwn1 forums.

New NWN1 modules in 2013 get more downloads on average than new NWN2 modules (but not by a large amount). The nwn1 average was 6-700. The median number was around 400 or so, the average was helped by two outliers with 2500 or so. NWN2 modules averaged a bit less, but didn't have two outliers (PJ156's campaign led the way in NWN2 with 1300 downloads or so).

Either way, if you're modding to attract a mass of groupies, you're better off with other games.

nwn1 pros: More critters and other objects including many not available at all in nwn2, Exterior tilesets make area building much faster than NWN2.
nwn1 cons: Can't handle parties, only non-controlled henchmen (and only 2), Graphically less impressive (though no one whose primary concern is graphics plays either nwn anyway). Placeables can not be resized or tinted as needed.

nwn2: Full party support, parties of any size. Deformable terrain editor with texture painting makes generally better looking exteriors with greater author control. Parameterized scripts greatly ease conversation scripting. Tinting and resizing placeables (in any direction) allows great variety of placeable use.
nwn2 cons: Longer dev time. Less critters.

Both communities are very helpful.

[Tchos]

diophant wrote...
Maybe you might consider to switch to a completely different toolset,
like DAO (which I never used, so I cannot tell much about it).

I made a module in it, and I can honestly say that if anyone found the NWN2 toolset difficult, then they'll find the DAO toolset no less difficult (possibly more), and with a whole new set of problems.

diophant wrote...
Creating a good NWN2 outdoor area takes several
times as long as creating one in NWN1. If you're not willing to spend
that time, rather use NWN1.

I think that wording is important.  A good NWN2 outdoor area takes longer than an area in NWN1.  In general, I would not consider a typical outdoor area in NWN1 to be "good", except perhaps "good for NWN1".  My position is that you can make outdoor areas in NWN2 that would be acceptable in NWN1 quickly and easily.  So if it's purely an issue of time, and if the focus of the module is on factors other than looking good, then the speed difference can be discounted.

kamal_ wrote...
NWN2 modules averaged a bit
less, but didn't have two outliers (PJ156's campaign led the way in NWN2
with 1300 downloads or so).

There was at least one outlier in 2013, though -- Baldur's Gate Reloaded, with ~11.3K unique downloads in one of its download locations.

Modifié par Tchos, 14 octobre 2013 - 07:36 .

[simomate2]

diophant wrote...

IMHO, the main point for NWN2 is that the game is newer, and your module might therefore get more downloads. However, this advantage is decreasing with NWN2 becoming older as well. Maybe you might consider to switch to a completely different toolset, like DAO (which I never used, so I cannot tell much about it).
Apart from that, another pro for NWN2 is that the game looks much better. If you are a talented artist, you can make increadible areas. However, you must take your time. Creating a good NWN2 outdoor area takes several times as long as creating one in NWN1. If you're not willing to spend that time, rather use NWN1.
If you are not a good scripter, the huge amount of premade scripts in NWN2 is a big advantage. The parameterized conversation scripts speeds up writing convos. I am an experienced programmer, so writing a lot of scripts in NWN1 didn't bother me much, so this point was rather small for me.
One big point for NWN1 is that more content is available, first there are much more creatures in the toolset, then there are tons of user-made content in the vault.
Another point is the better patch level of NWN1. The final patch of NWN2 still feels unfinished, and I often had to script hacks for open bugs. I rarely had to do this for NWN1.

So I cannot recommend one toolset over the other. It depends on your skills and on what you want to achieve.

Well actually, NWN 1 has a bigger fanbase I believe. (Which doesn't really influence by decision lolI don't want to switch to DAO because I don't share the same passion for that game that I hold for NWN. Because of NWN (1 and 2), I've grown to love dungeon and dragon's rules, and I love that its toolset allows me to develop a module with the DaD rules already in place. Anyway, I'm still undecided at the moment but that's okay. I may wait until I graduate (5 weeks until I'm finished school forever!) before I begin.

For me, the biggest appeal of NWN 2 is the party control. If I end up going with NWN 2, it will likely be for that. Also, kamal, you can have more then two henchmen in NWN 1. The two henchmen limit was imposed by the HOU module and can easily be bypassed.

Modifié par simomate2, 14 octobre 2013 - 09:01 .

[kamal_]

simomate2 wrote...
I may wait until I graduate (5 weeks until I'm finished school forever!) before I begin.

Wait until you graduate, no ned to mess up your final finals.

[Morbane]

kamal_ wrote...

simomate2 wrote...
I may wait until I graduate (5 weeks until I'm finished school forever!) before I begin.

Wait until you graduate, no ned to mess up your final finals.

nothin worse than to get halfway through a paper - then decide to take a 'quick peek' at the NWN forums.....

[Alupinu]

For me the choice was easy. It was the way you can manipulate the exterior areas with a paint brush in NWN2 compared to using tiles in NWN1.
Tiles are nice but a true artist always prefers a paintbrush.

[Tchos]

Another advantage of NWN2 is that as a module-maker, you do not have to balance your module for a particular kind of player character, as you might in NWN1. Instead, you balance the module for a typical D&D well-balanced party of 4 or 5, and either provide companions of different classes to fill that party, or allow the player to import a full party from his/her local vault using SoZ's party creation system. No forcing the PC to be a jack-of-all-trades, one-man-army.

[andysks]

I never used NWN1 toolset, and even though I liked the game, the one thing that pissed me of on it was that you are alone. It lost something for me there... it should be a party. So I cannot speak of it's toolset as a toolset, but I can say stuff about the NWN2 one.
For me 3,5=best edition of D&D, and I don't see no matter how much I try, how they are ever going to top that. But anyway.
It took me more than half a year to learn the NWN2 toolset. I think I know the guides by heart at this moment. I started building so many mods that never got far because I couldn't figure stuff out.
Once I learned it... it's even more confusing . But in a nice way. It makes you feel like you actually do something. A big plus for me were the conversations since I like RPGs with big talks, plus the fact that I can script my convos easily with the given action-conditional scripts.
An idea of how powerful it is, is that so many years after the game release and mods released, there are still people here in the forums that were asking-answering questions 3 years ago... and they still don't know some aspects.