132 réponses à ce sujet

[Senya]

Taleroth wrote...

almostinsane99 wrote...

The true enemy... Is your evil split personality!

You rang?

"I don't know who you are. I don't know what you want. If you are looking
for ransom, I can tell you I don't have money. But what I do have are a
very particular set of skills; skills I have acquired over a very long
career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you. If you let
my daughter go now, that'll be the end of it. I will not look for you, I
will not pursue you. But if you don't, I will look for you, I will find
you, and I will kill you. "

Sorry. Couldn't resist.

[Taleroth]

simfamSP wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Wouldn't be a BioWare story without a few nonsensical twists.

xD how was being the child of Bhaal nonsensical? Or being Revan, the "flaw," hell, how was Sovreing being a Reaper nonsensical?

Or am I taking this the wrong way entirely?

The Revan twist has... issues.

On one hand it was heavily telegraphed and should have been obvious to anyone paying attention. This mysterious masked man the PC is having dreams about and everyone is talking in hushed tones about your past... This Revan guy is dead... but let's not talk about him around the PC... for no reason.

One the other hand, the truth is that Bastila knows exactly who the PC is in near intimate detail. And the public cover is that Bastila personally asked for the PC to be aboard the Ebon Spire.

So why the heck does she mistake the PC for a random street thug when the PC first meet her on Taris?

Modifié par Taleroth, 14 octobre 2013 - 08:16 .

[Boiny Bunny]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Lord Aesir wrote...

...That makes no sense.  Because Revan remembers doing evil things in a past life, despite having a neutral-good personality and corresponding moral values now and not even knowing they were memories at first, Revan must be evil?  How does it even matter?

The "past life" part makes no sense. There is no "past life" and "present life." There is only one life.

I think our point of contention (it's this with another person I know here) is the Jedi mind-wipe. I don't think it actually erases the personality. If it did, it would erase the memories. Others believe it does.

If it does NOT erase the personality, then that personality exists, or existed, within my character. My character was the kind of person who would rebel against the Jedi Coucil. My character was the kind of person who would go to nefarious places and seek the Dark Side.

Except I didn't create the kind of character. I created a neutral Good character, and the game tells me 3/4 of the way through that my character is actually a different person. It would be allowable actually if it happened in the intro or something, to allow me to craft my character around it. But you don't know about it until it's too late.

Personally, I'm inclined to disagree.  Not sure how the 'Jedi mind wipe' is meant to work (if it is present) in other Star Wars media - but the implication from Bioware in KOTOR is that it left Revan a complete blank slate in terms of personality and memories.  In a way, it almost fits the bill of being a developer joke, a plot point that actually literally explains the PC being a 'blank slate' at the start of the game.

All of that aside, the follow up games (I believe it was Obsidian who came up with this idea) retcon Revan so that he (yes, even the gender was eventually fixed) was never truly evil, and only did what he did to prevent the REAL bad guys from destroying the galaxy...or some such rubbish.  I haven't played TOR, but have watched the references to Revan in that game (very disappointing IMO).

[ShallowlLife9871]

what? you mean, my super nice jedi was accuttly the BAD GUY??? noooooo thanks for ruining the twist BSN. lol just kidding. I already played kotor.

how about. the tear in the vail, the blights and the events in kirkwall were all planed by nugs as part of an experment to find the ultamite question for the ultamite answer?

[Dr. Doctor]

We were possessed by the spirit/individual who caused the Fade Tear in a manner similar to what Flemeth did with her daughters and that's how we survived?

The mysterious benefactor that grants the Inquisitor their title and powers turns out to be the one who caused the tear in the first place?

The Maker turns out to be Fen'Harel?

[N147]

Lotion Soronnar wrote...

Revenant24 wrote...

There was nothing funny about the Kotor twist. I simply sat there, dumbfounded. But yeah, I hope they include a really big twist in the game, hopefully something completely earth shattering.

Really? I saw it coming a million miles away.

There ware so many things giving it away.

I was 12....

[Alexius]

Dunno what it could be... but I certainly miss the great plot twists of old. In retrospective, you could see the build-up of events.

As much as I liked ME3, the ending was just underwhelming in several ways, not to mention it felt like something put together at the very last minute.

Modifié par AlexiusDAlex, 15 octobre 2013 - 12:51 .

[Gallimatia]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

All of that aside, the follow up games (I believe it was Obsidian who came up with this idea) retcon Revan so that he (yes, even the gender was eventually fixed) was never truly evil, and only did what he did to prevent the REAL bad guys from destroying the galaxy...or some such rubbish. 

Then in the 2011 book you learn that he wasn't stopping the real bad guy he was mind controlled into helping him. The jedi council wasn't the first to mess with Revan's mind. I wouldn't base any ideas on Revan's one true self on his time as Darth Revan.

Determined to locate the Sith threat, Revan and Malak followed the Sith survivors' trail to the storm-covered world of Dromud Kaas, which they discovered to be the capital of a new Sith Empire... But instead of warning the Republic, the two Jedi - proud and overconfident - believed that they could defeat the Emperor alone...

When Revan and Malak arrived at the Emperor's throne room, the Sith ruler was ready for them - instead of fighting them, the Emperor reached out and dominated their minds, twisting the pair into willing servants and completing their fall to the dark side before he scoured their minds for useful information. Anointing his new servants as Darth Revan and Darth Malak, the Dark Lords of the Sith, the Emperor sent them back to the Republic as a vanguard to his own invasion, ordering them to make use of the Rakatan Star Forge and to report back when they had crushed the Republic's resistance. - Wookieepedia

Modifié par Gallimatia, 15 octobre 2013 - 01:45 .

[iOnlySignIn]

Morocco Mole wrote...

you are the demons

AND THEN SHEPARD WAS REAPER

[dreamgazer]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

you are the demons

AND THEN SHEPARD WAS REAPER

That's actually pretty awesome. 

[iOnlySignIn]

dreamgazer wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

Morocco Mole wrote...

you are the demons

AND THEN SHEPARD WAS REAPER

snip

That's actually pretty awesome.

Indeed.

AND THEN INQUISITOR WAS MAKER

[CynicalShep]

simfamSP wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Wouldn't be a BioWare story without a few nonsensical twists.

xD how was being the child of Bhaal nonsensical? Or being Revan, the "flaw," hell, how was Sovreing being a Reaper nonsensical?

Or am I taking this the wrong way entirely?

Well, I saw all 3 of these coming, really. 
Yeah, I'm clever like that

[tfcreative]

Taleroth wrote...

One the other hand, the truth is that Bastila knows exactly who the PC is in near intimate detail. And the public cover is that Bastila personally asked for the PC to be aboard the Ebon Spire.

Endar Spire.

I think that fills my jackhole quota for the day.

[dreamgazer]

simfamSP wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Wouldn't be a BioWare story without a few nonsensical twists.

xD how was being the child of Bhaal nonsensical? Or being Revan, the "flaw," hell, how was Sovreing being a Reaper nonsensical?

Or am I taking this the wrong way entirely?

No, you're taking it correctly.  Some of their twists are more sensible than others. 

But let's not pretend as if the Reapers being responsible for creating the relay network or Morrigan offering a way to cheat death by producing an old god baby aren't "nonsensical". We may like them, but they're ludicrous. 

[Steelcan]

relevant


A twist just for the sake of having a twist is utterly moronic

Modifié par Steelcan, 15 octobre 2013 - 01:15 .

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

I'd love for Dragon Age to have a good, well-executed twist in one of their games. They don't have to have one, but I'm a sucker for excellently done foreshadowing with a satisfying payoff.

[Boycott Bioware]

Bioware writers should read this guide, there are 13 steps to become an expert

[Direwolf0294]

Having it turn out you've been possessed the whole time could be cool

[Vortex13]

Steelcan wrote...

-snip

relevant


A twist just for the sake of having a twist is utterly moronic

I agree.

Not to say Bioware doesn't know how to write a good story, but  putting some twist, or reveal for the sake of having a twist or reveal NEVER turns out good IMO.

Its kinda the same reasoning that I don't get when writers say they are trying to be different and inovative, just for the sake of being different, and in the end they produce a story that exactly like everyone else that says they are trying to be different and non-conformist; whatever the literary 'flavor of the month' exposition trend is.

[Demx]

simfamSP wrote...

So, apparently the inquisitor survived the Tear...and was the only one who did? Does anybody sense a good ol' BioWare plot twist?

And no, don't bring up ME3 please. I'm talking Jade Empire/KOTOR twists, the ones that make you laugh at just how awesome it was.

Nope I just sense Flemeth showing up to start the protagonist off on his journey. Just like the last two games.

[David7204]

If there is a plan, things cannot go according to it.

If they do, the plan becomes a spoiler.

It's an absolute necessity for things to go wrong. For new challenges and information to be introduced right up until the very end.

Modifié par David7204, 15 octobre 2013 - 03:41 .

[AutumnWitch]

Liamv2 wrote...

The Warden, Hawke and the Inquisitor are actually controlled by a god called Gamer.

You mean "Gaider" nor "Gamer" right? ;-p