217 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

azarhal wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

I'm inclined to agree with Bleachrude; nothing Morrigan says excludes the possibility of Flemeth having been human at one point in time.

That being said, I don't particularly care one way or the other what Flemeth's origins are. I'm far more interested in her intentions.

Well, whatever her intentions are, they were enough to get Morrigan scared enough to actually leave Thedas, and go beyond the Fade through the Eluvian.

Morrigan left through the Eluvian to gain power (and have enough to fight her mom). She said so herself. Considering that Morrigan LOVES power, she would have done it without Flemeth being around.

But I think she missunderstood something in her reading. She said she was going beyond the Fade, but the elves called the Fade the Beyond. So beyond the Beyond is where she went. Doesn't make much sense, especially when the Fade is not a barrier that you can cross. It's like another dimension.

There is that fan theory I read this week about Thedas being in the Fade, shaped by a powerful spirit.  In this case, what she said would have made sense. Sort of.

I can't see how it doesn't make sense.  The Elves' simply have a different word for the Fade.  Sure, the phrasing "beyond the Beyond" would sound a little funny, but that's the extent of it.  How would it mean that she had misunderstood something?  (And if you want to be pedantic, the Elves' word for the Fade isn't The Beyond, that's simply the human language phrase that it translates into).

There are several references to a land(lands?) beyond the Fade, and that's presumably where Morrigan was going-and it's in this sense that the Fade is a barrier: you can't get to those lands because the Fade is in the way.  Thinking that something doesn't add up because a phrase sounds weird (only when using the Elves' appellation) strikes me as looking for things that simply aren't there.

Modifié par Silfren, 18 octobre 2013 - 03:04 .

[azarhal]

QueenPurpleScrap wrote...

In Awakening Justice says there is something beyond the Fade but the spirits know no more about it than you do. The Dalish call the Fade the the Beyond but that doesn't negate there being something beyond that. Until Justice you don't know there's something else.

Justice's comment was about the dead's soul not staying in the Fade, he has no idea where they are going. They could be returning to Thedas for all he knows or the Chantry is right and they move to the Maker's side.

Silfren wrote...

azarhal wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Former_Fiend wrote...

I'm
inclined to agree with Bleachrude; nothing Morrigan says excludes the
possibility of Flemeth having been human at one point in time.

That being said, I don't particularly care one way or the other what Flemeth's origins are. I'm far more interested in her intentions.

Well,
whatever her intentions are, they were enough to get Morrigan scared
enough to actually leave Thedas, and go beyond the Fade through the
Eluvian.

Morrigan left through the Eluvian to
gain power (and have enough to fight her mom). She said so herself.
Considering that Morrigan LOVES power, she would have done it
without Flemeth being around.

But I think she missunderstood
something in her reading. She said she was going beyond the Fade, but
the elves called the Fade the Beyond. So beyond the Beyond is where she
went. Doesn't make much sense, especially when the Fade is not a barrier
that you can cross. It's like another dimension.

There is that
fan theory I read this week about Thedas being in the Fade, shaped by a
powerful spirit.  In this case, what she said would have made sense.
Sort of.

I can't see how it doesn't make sense.  The
Elves' simply have a different word for the Fade.  Sure, the phrasing
"beyond the Beyond" would sound a little funny, but that's the
extent of it.  How would it mean that she had misunderstood something? 
(And if you want to be pedantic, the Elves' word for the Fade isn't The Beyond, that's simply the human language phrase that it translates into).

There
are several references to a land(lands?) beyond the Fade, and that's
presumably where Morrigan was going-and it's in this sense that the Fade
is a barrier: you can't get to those lands because the Fade is in the
way.  Thinking that something doesn't add up because a phrase sounds
weird (only when using the Elves' appellation) strikes me as looking for
things that simply aren't there.

The Fade is a dimension shaped like a sphere, everything in it is equidistant to the center (the Black City). That is what the lore tell us. It can't act has a barrier unless Thedas is in the Fade (which might be the case mind you).

Also, the comment about the Elves' appellation is because Morrigan's knowledge of the Eluvian come from a Dalish's book. Her entire knowledge of how it works and where it leads is from a book written in Elvish where the Fade would be called the Beyond (once translated). Any reference to that place beyond the Fade would be written as the place beyond the Beyond in the book.

By the way, can you get me all those reference to the land(s) beyond the Fade.

[Silfren]

azarhal wrote...
The Fade is a dimension shaped like a sphere, everything in it is equidistant to the center (the Black City). That is what the lore tell us. It can't act has a barrier unless Thedas is in the Fade (which might be the case mind you).

I wouldn't go taking things too literally.  There's more than one way that the Fade could act as a barrier.

Also, the comment about the Elves' appellation is because Morrigan's knowledge of the Eluvian come from a Dalish's book. Her entire knowledge of how it works and where it leads is from a book written in Elvish where the Fade would be called the Beyond (once translated). Any reference to that place beyond the Fade would be written as the place beyond the Beyond in the book.

Again you're being far too literal minded about this.  Morrigan isn't reciting things verbatim from the book.  She uses the phrase "beyond the Fade," NOT "beyond the Beyond."  In fact, that phrase originates with you--you have no reason to assume that's how the Dalish tome refers to things at all. 

And, actually, no.  Were the book to be translated for the purpose of being read by people whose language and culture refers to this realm as the Fade, after a note of explanation that the Dalish word properly translates as "The Beyond," the translator would be quite likely to simply call it the "Fade" for the benefit of the human audience.  Or, if said translator did use the label of "The Beyond," then they would NOT the phrase "beyond the Beyond" unless they were deliberately aiming for a humorous moment.  But, again, the only one actually using this phrase is you; we don't know how the tome refers to this "beyond the Fade" realm.

By the way, can you get me all those reference to the land(s) beyond the Fade.

Not offhand, no.  I'll be back on later, I'll see if I can dig up those references in the meantime. 

Modifié par Silfren, 18 octobre 2013 - 09:30 .

[Reznore57]

I don't think she's in the Fade.
It's not impossible all it requires to walk there physically is an Eluvian but I really doubt it .
Not thinking about how she 'd survive in such a realm without food or anything?

The only other person who went through an Eluvian was Tamlen and well...the place was tainted.
And he came back to Thedas somehow.
I assume Morrigan also wanted to came back , so there's a back up plan here.
It's possible a really small part of Thedas before the Veil was preserved , the golden city may have been a portal to access to it?
Or it's inside?
It's also highly possible some version of the golden city exist in Thedas , it could just be an anchor place for both realm.

[Silfren]

Reznore57 wrote...

I don't think she's in the Fade.
It's not impossible all it requires to walk there physically is an Eluvian but I really doubt it .
Not thinking about how she 'd survive in such a realm without food or anything?

The only other person who went through an Eluvian was Tamlen and well...the place was tainted.
And he came back to Thedas somehow.
I assume Morrigan also wanted to came back , so there's a back up plan here.
It's possible a really small part of Thedas before the Veil was preserved , the golden city may have been a portal to access to it?
Or it's inside?
It's also highly possible some version of the golden city exist in Thedas , it could just be an anchor place for both realm.

I don't think Tamlen went anywhere; he only touched the eluvian, and it was the mirror itself that was tainted, not some place it took him to.

I doubt Morrigan didn't consider basic survival needs.  Just because we don't hear her discussing those particular doesn't mean she didn't already plan for them.

Modifié par Silfren, 18 octobre 2013 - 10:16 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

I think Tamlen just wandered off into the forest.

And Morrigan knows what the Fade is, and she knows the Beyond is the Dalish word for it. And if the elven tomes speak of wherever she's going, it doesn't mean it's described as "beyond the Fade."

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 18 octobre 2013 - 10:21 .

[cjones91]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think Tamlen just wandered off into the forest.

And Morrigan knows what the Fade is, and she knows the Beyond is the Dalish word for it. And if the elven tomes speak of wherever she's going, it doesn't mean it's described as "beyond the Fade."

Did'nt his clan search everywhere for him?If Tamlen was just wandering in the forest then someone from the clan would have spotted him.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

They searched in the forest and didn't find him. That doesn't mean he wasn't there.

[Reznore57]

Silfren wrote...

I don't think Tamlen went anywhere; he only touched the eluvian, and it was the mirror itself that was tainted, not some place it took him to.

I doubt Morrigan didn't consider basic survival needs.  Just because we don't hear her discussing those particular doesn't mean she didn't already plan for them.

True about Tamlen .
It would make more sense.

About Morrigan , I just meant I doubt you can survive long physically


in the fade.It's more or less an "ethereal" world.
She could have brough a picnic basket but...Sounds strange .

Like I mention , it's really not impossible some part of Thedas before the Veil was preserved .And she would take the soul there , or look for power .

[Silfren]

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think Tamlen just wandered off into the forest.

And Morrigan knows what the Fade is, and she knows the Beyond is the Dalish word for it. And if the elven tomes speak of wherever she's going, it doesn't mean it's described as "beyond the Fade."

Did'nt his clan search everywhere for him?If Tamlen was just wandering in the forest then someone from the clan would have spotted him.

One body in a forest isn't an easy thing to find, and who's to say that Tamlen wasn't trying to avoid being found, considering we don't know what the hell happened to him except that he saw something in that mirror that scared the bejeezus out of him and he got tainted in the bargain?

Modifié par Silfren, 18 octobre 2013 - 10:32 .

[Angrywolves]

I doubt Morrigan is afraid of Flemeth. Morrigan wants power for herself .

[dragonflight288]

Silfren wrote...

cjones91 wrote...

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

I think Tamlen just wandered off into the forest.

And Morrigan knows what the Fade is, and she knows the Beyond is the Dalish word for it. And if the elven tomes speak of wherever she's going, it doesn't mean it's described as "beyond the Fade."

Did'nt his clan search everywhere for him?If Tamlen was just wandering in the forest then someone from the clan would have spotted him.

One body in a forest isn't an easy thing to find, and who's to say that Tamlen wasn't trying to avoid being found, considering we don't know what the hell happened to him except that he saw something in that mirror that scared the bejeezus out of him and he got tainted in the bargain?

And he later reappears in the attack on the camp as a Shade.

[Former_Fiend]

Androme wrote...

 That would be so typical. I'd rather see a big blow to the qun so that more people would wake up and realise what a danger it is.

I don't think anyone, regardless of how sympathetic or outright supportive of the qun they may be, fails to recognize the danger it poses to the rest of Thedas.

[BlueMagitek]

MasterScribe wrote...

*SPOILERS*

Dude.  Spoilers.

[Former_Fiend]

MasterScribe wrote...

BlueMagitek wrote...

MasterScribe wrote...

*SPOILERS*

Dude.  Spoilers.

Andraste is Keyser Söze.

If she was, she wouldn't have died.