816 réponses à ce sujet

[Kallimachus]

And more to the point (or topic), the main thing that bothers me in some of the past DA games sex scenes, was actually the hair. I know it's a minor thing, but it really bugs me that people are horizontal and their hair keeps standing parallel to the ground, defying gravity.

[Beerfish]

As long as we get 'conquest cards' I'm okay with the actual sex scenes..........

[Br3admax]

Kallimachus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Well that's nice.Glad to read Gaider's comments. I hope they mark an end to the war started on the BSN by that silly dating sim thread . I am a romance fan. Been one for years. If Mr. Gaider was still here I would ask him why ? Why do romances at all ? Why bother ? Most fans don't do them. Bioware says that's so.Despite claims made by the romance haters that large numbers of fans do them and obsess on them. While for some fans romances are a major part of the game I suspect the number of romance fans don't justify the effort by Bioware . The old cost/benefit analysis thing. So in my opinion Bioware does romances , not just for the romance fans but because they want to do them. Someone at Bioware likes having romances in the games. Who it is, I don't know. I suspect it's several someones. And that's ok. It's a game made by Bioware , they determine what is in it.

Actually, I had understood the statistics that said people who did romances were a minority are outdated. Just now, Mr. Gaider said that most fans do romances, though maybe he was just referring to hardcore fans who post in the BSN .

Perhaps he means most core fans. You also are forgetting that the consumer is not synonymous with fan. It is still most likely that most of the people who purchase DA: I will still ignore the romances. 

Most likely he is basing his statistics on telemetry. And that refers to players as a whole, not just "core fans" (how would he even be able to make such a distinction in the stats?). We already know that at one of the same sex romances was played by 24% of the player base (located here: http://gdcvault.com/...96/Sex-in-Video jump to 16:44). Presumably the opposite sex romances were played by a larger number of people. As for what you are decribing as "likely", on what are you basing that, other than your own feelings on the subject?

And even if we assume that "only" 24% of players played any of the romances, that is still a larger percentage than played a female Shepard in ME3 (18%), and a much larger percentage than played any ME3 class except Soldier (Infiltrator, the second most popular class was played by less than 12% of the players, while over 64% played as Soldiers). Shuold those too be eliminated?

I don't think you are discussing what I am discussing. I do not know why everyone on BSN takes the with-me-or-against-me-on-everything approach with every single topic, but it would be nice if we actually could discuss things without being, "You either want this or you hate everything and want to get rid of it." That's not a good argument. That aside, those statistics are very skewed. I highly doubt that 24 percent of the player base in total romanced any one person. That makes no sense,

[Tyrerion]

give me some female elf warrior.... ;(

[Kallimachus]

Br3ad wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Angrywolves wrote...

Well that's nice.Glad to read Gaider's comments. I hope they mark an end to the war started on the BSN by that silly dating sim thread . I am a romance fan. Been one for years. If Mr. Gaider was still here I would ask him why ? Why do romances at all ? Why bother ? Most fans don't do them. Bioware says that's so.Despite claims made by the romance haters that large numbers of fans do them and obsess on them. While for some fans romances are a major part of the game I suspect the number of romance fans don't justify the effort by Bioware . The old cost/benefit analysis thing. So in my opinion Bioware does romances , not just for the romance fans but because they want to do them. Someone at Bioware likes having romances in the games. Who it is, I don't know. I suspect it's several someones. And that's ok. It's a game made by Bioware , they determine what is in it.

Actually, I had understood the statistics that said people who did romances were a minority are outdated. Just now, Mr. Gaider said that most fans do romances, though maybe he was just referring to hardcore fans who post in the BSN .

Perhaps he means most core fans. You also are forgetting that the consumer is not synonymous with fan. It is still most likely that most of the people who purchase DA: I will still ignore the romances. 

Most likely he is basing his statistics on telemetry. And that refers to players as a whole, not just "core fans" (how would he even be able to make such a distinction in the stats?). We already know that at one of the same sex romances was played by 24% of the player base (located here: http://gdcvault.com/...96/Sex-in-Video jump to 16:44). Presumably the opposite sex romances were played by a larger number of people. As for what you are decribing as "likely", on what are you basing that, other than your own feelings on the subject?

And even if we assume that "only" 24% of players played any of the romances, that is still a larger percentage than played a female Shepard in ME3 (18%), and a much larger percentage than played any ME3 class except Soldier (Infiltrator, the second most popular class was played by less than 12% of the players, while over 64% played as Soldiers). Shuold those too be eliminated?

I don't think you are discussing what I am discussing. I do not know why everyone on BSN takes the with-me-or-against-me-on-everything approach with every single topic, but it would be nice if we actually could discuss things without being, "You either want this or you hate everything and want to get rid of it." That's not a good argument. That aside, those statistics are very skewed. I highly doubt that 24 percent of the player base in total romanced any one person. That makes no sense,

Please explain, why does it make no sense? Those are the statistics we have, as presented by the lead writer of these games. If you are going to dismiss them, say what you are basing this dismissal on. And in what way is this number skewed. Otherwise, it just sounds if if you cannot accept that so many people disagree with you.

Modifié par Kallimachus, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:36 .

[Br3admax]

Kallimachus wrote...

Please explain, why does it make no sense? Those are the statistics we have, as presented by the lead writer of these games. If you are going to dismiss them, say what you are basing this dismissal on. Otherwise, it just sounds if if you are cannot accept that so many people disagree with you.

It's simple logic. There is almost no way that 24 percent, which is about a fourth, of the entire fanbase, which you are using as everyone not just fans, romanced one person and that this one person was romanced in a same sex way by said fourth of consumers. You're misquoting him if anything. 

[Ryzaki]

Br3ad wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Please explain, why does it make no sense? Those are the statistics we have, as presented by the lead writer of these games. If you are going to dismiss them, say what you are basing this dismissal on. Otherwise, it just sounds if if you are cannot accept that so many people disagree with you.

It's simple logic. There is almost no way that 24 percent, which is about a fourth, of the entire fanbase, which you are using as everyone not just fans, romanced one person and that this one person was romanced in a same sex way by said fourth of consumers. You're misquoting him if anything. 

? and why is that so unbelievable?

"It varied according to the character but it got as high as 24%" In which case of ONE s/s romance."

So yeah that is one character (willing to bet that's Leliana). That's the highest s/s romance number though so maybe the other is 10% maybe he's 1% but either way it's at least 1 fourth of players that did a s/s romance.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:37 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Br3ad wrote...

It's simple logic. There is almost no way that 24 percent, which is about a fourth, of the entire fanbase, which you are using as everyone not just fans, romanced one person and that this one person was romanced in a same sex way by said fourth of consumers. You're misquoting him if anything.

He didn't say that.  The data says that 24% of all players pursued a same sex romance.  From that, we know that a minimum of 24% of all players pursued any romance at all.

[Kallimachus]

Br3ad wrote...

Kallimachus wrote...

Please explain, why does it make no sense? Those are the statistics we have, as presented by the lead writer of these games. If you are going to dismiss them, say what you are basing this dismissal on. Otherwise, it just sounds if if you are cannot accept that so many people disagree with you.

It's simple logic. There is almost no way that 24 percent, which is about a fourth, of the entire fanbase, which you are using as everyone not just fans, romanced one person and that this one person was romanced in a same sex way by said fourth of consumers. You're misquoting him if anything. 

I fail to see that "simple logic". You just heard that 24% of the players (not the fan base - David Gaider explicitly says he is basing his stats on telemetry, which does not check for fanhood level) played one of the game romances. Please present what stats you have that negate that. Logic really has no place here. This is not a question of logic, but of statistic. If you have other numbers please present them, I would be happy to read/listen to them. Otherwise, you have no basis to stand on.

Modifié par Kallimachus, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:43 .

[Fast Jimmy]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

It's simple logic. There is almost no way that 24 percent, which is about a fourth, of the entire fanbase, which you are using as everyone not just fans, romanced one person and that this one person was romanced in a same sex way by said fourth of consumers. You're misquoting him if anything.

He didn't say that.  The data says that 24% of all players pursued a same sex romance.  From that, we know that a minimum of 24% of all players pursued any romance at all.

Well, that's not ENTIRELY accurate.

We know that 24% of players who supplied telemetry data pursued some level of romance. The full fan base would be impossible to know.

But you are correct - 24% of players reached the climax of the romance (pun intended), but that doesn't mean 76% didn't try to reach said culmination and didn't make it.

[David Gaider]

Fast Jimmy wrote...
We know that 24% of players who supplied telemetry data pursued some level of romance. The full fan base would be impossible to know.

24% of the player base (of those who did not opt out of telemetry, it's true-- but we're talking a figure in the millions, which makes it a smidge better than anecdotal data) at least began the romance arc for one of the characters in DAO as a PC of the same sex. That implies nothing beyond the mere existence of the fact-- we have no knowledge of why they did so, what the actual gender of the player behind that PC was, or why those who didn't complete the arc did not.

We are not going to go into detail on telemetry, or get into a discussion of exactly what percentage of the player base even engages in romances. It's large enough for us, and we put the amount of resources into romances that we feel that interest level deserves. For those who do not pursue romance arcs, there's an entire rest of the game for them to enjoy.

Modifié par David Gaider, 17 octobre 2013 - 07:14 .

[Wulfram]

24% does seem remarkably high. True Achievements has the romance achievements of Leliana and Zevran acquired by 31% of players. Which would imply that 77% of the people who romanced them did it with a character of the same sex. Which would be very surprising to me.

(I was surprised they were both romanced by the same proportion of people. Guess Zevran's easier availabilty cancelled out Leliana's advantage of being female. But then if most people who romanced them did it with someone of the same sex, being male would be an advantage)

Of course Bioware's stats are no doubt more reliable, but if anything I'd expect TA's numbers to skew higher, since the people they're tracking seem like they'd be more interested in bagging achievements.

edit:  Didn't see Mr Gaider's post.  Begun would explain the discrepancy.  Though that makes me think ninjamancing could play a big role.

Modifié par Wulfram, 17 octobre 2013 - 07:18 .

[Kallimachus]

I have yet to see anything that would convince me that so-called ninjamancing really exists (beyond the fringe few who are oblivious to any sort of flirtation).

[Wulfram]

Kallimachus wrote...

I have yet to see anything that would convince me that so-called ninjamancing really exists (beyond the fringe few who are oblivious to any sort of flirtation).

There was I think a bug in Leliana's post-Marjolaine conversation for female characters that resulted in a lot of ninjamances.  There was definitely a bug in Liara's conversation that led to the most hostile rejection of her advances being taken as agreement, though that's Mass Effect obviously

Personally I don't see how saying "I like you and not because of your blood" to Alistair or something like that is flirting rather than just reaffirming your friendship.  Since that's nice and early in the game, that little misunderstanding actually plays out quite naturally - I did it deliberately on some later playthroughs, since it creates a nice little mini story - but I assume it would be recorded as starting the romance.

[In Exile]

Wulfram wrote...

24% does seem remarkably high. True Achievements has the romance achievements of Leliana and Zevran acquired by 31% of players. Which would imply that 77% of the people who romanced them did it with a character of the same sex. Which would be very surprising to me.

Considering DG's post that the 24% is a reference to romance plot trigerred, and keeping in mind the ninjamace complaints (and, indeed, bugs) in DA:O, it's possible that the actual % of people that wanted to trigger the plot (i.e., did so intentionally) is lower than 24%. Or not.

It's hard to draw inferences because we have a very limited dataset and we know very little about what we're drawing inferences from. 

[HiddenInWar]

Show me that Inquisitor booty.

[Br3admax]

Kallimachus wrote...

I have yet to see anything that would convince me that so-called ninjamancing really exists (beyond the fringe few who are oblivious to any sort of flirtation).

In DA, there is really no ninjamancing. All of the dialogue is pretty obvious, to be sure. And in ME, it was due to a bug.

EDIT: I guess some people may have experienced similar things. I try too nip those buds early on to be honest.  

Modifié par Br3ad, 17 octobre 2013 - 09:03 .

[Stiler]

No offense to anyone intended but the Bioware romance scenes in ME came off a bit cheesy/immature.

The lack of confidence to show nudity and the always carefully "shadow/hidden behind an object" felt like it was held back because bioware was afraid to show nudity.

However nudity can exist in a M rated title, like the Witcher 2.

To me showing nudity isn't "immature," there is a key difference between having nudity for "Shock" reasons or just to simply have nudity, and then there's a reasont o have it when it makes sense and would make the scene feel and look natural.

The majority of game players are adults, and if you want to make the romance scenes in DA:I "mature" then don't be afraid to actually have them play out more naturally.

[Angrywolves]

Large enough for us.....scratches bald spot in top of head aka Bruce Willis on Saturday Night Live.
Ok. I am for the romances. But Bioware , rather than wanting to compare themselves to the Witcher, has compared itself, willingly I might add to Skyrim which lacks such dynamics as mature and tasteful romances .
But still sells very well. I wonder if there is some artistic integrity motivation at work, an independent we like who we Bioware are but if so why compare yourselves to anyone ? I sense a mixed message but maybe it's just me.
Someone did mention both sides in the debate wanting all or nothing, or at least some people believing that is the case. There are some people who are against mature romances that would accept "vanilla" romances like those we've seen in some of the Final Fantasy games and like we see in some of the Skyrim mods as well as other games. Vanilla romances because that's what a lot of fans saw, if they saw any romances at all.
But Bioware has made it's decision

[Br3admax]

Wat?

[Zatche]

Angrywolves wrote...

Large enough for us.....scratches bald spot in top of head aka Bruce Willis on Saturday Night Live.
Ok. I am for the romances. But Bioware , rather than wanting to compare themselves to the Witcher, has compared itself, willingly I might add to Skyrim which lacks such dynamics as mature and tasteful romances .
But still sells very well. I wonder if there is some artistic integrity motivation at work, an independent we like who we Bioware are but if so why compare yourselves to anyone ? I sense a mixed message but maybe it's just me.
Someone did mention both sides in the debate wanting all or nothing, or at least some people believing that is the case. There are some people who are against mature romances that would accept "vanilla" romances like those we've seen in some of the Final Fantasy games and like we see in some of the Skyrim mods as well as other games. Vanilla romances because that's what a lot of fans saw, if they saw any romances at all.
But Bioware has made it's decision

Bioware stated that wanted to take influence from Skyrim with regards to exploration, not story or romance. Taking cues from Skyrim's storytelling would be silly considering it's Bioware's strong suit. Maybe you're reading too much into it?

[L. Han]

I have not read through every posts in this thread but here's what I have been seeing quite abit.

I often see people throw around numbers and percents of people engaging in romances or started a romance or having same gender romanced etc etc.

Please, do note that a fair chunk of any of these numbers can easily be a mistake. I have a lot of friends who played Mass Effect 2 and had no idea they started a romance or not and when I checked their saves, some of them did some of them didn't. All of this confusion and mistakes contribute to these percents you guys are throwing around.

I am sure it is a big chunk of it.

[Star fury]

David Gaider wrote...

24% of the player base (of those who did not opt out of telemetry, it's true-- but we're talking a figure in the millions, which makes it a smidge better than anecdotal data) at least began the romance arc for one of the characters in DAO as a PC of the same sex. That implies nothing beyond the mere existence of the fact-- we have no knowledge of why they did so, what the actual gender of the player behind that PC was, or why those who didn't complete the arc did not.

We are not going to go into detail on telemetry, or get into a discussion of exactly what percentage of the player base even engages in romances. It's large enough for us, and we put the amount of resources into romances that we feel that interest level deserves. For those who do not pursue romance arcs, there's an entire rest of the game for them to enjoy.

So a quarter of DA players pursues romance in some form. That's one impressive number.

Modifié par Star fury, 18 octobre 2013 - 04:52 .