368 réponses à ce sujet

[Silfren]

Gwydden wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I agree there's no official canon.  What was said was "Bioware's own story," which I took to mean it was assumed that Bioware had its own canon story.

David Gaider's stated that BioWare's default for books/comics/DAI is a female dalish who performed the US.

Do you have a link for this?  I'd love to read it for myself if possible.  I find it difficult to believe since they write the books specifically to avoid mentioning ANY details about the Warden.  Seems if they had decided to have a default for the books and comics, this would have been reflected in Asunder, rather than dancing around it in order to allow for any interpretation.

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I agree there's no official canon.  What was said was "Bioware's own story," which I took to mean it was assumed that Bioware had its own canon story.

David Gaider's stated that BioWare's default for books/comics/DAI is a female dalish who performed the US.

Do you have a link for this?  I'd love to read it for myself if possible.  I find it difficult to believe since they write the books specifically to avoid mentioning ANY details about the Warden.  Seems if they had decided to have a default for the books and comics, this would have been reflected in Asunder, rather than dancing around it in order to allow for any interpretation.

Here's the one for the game default. I couldn't tell you whether or not Gaider covers the canon in the books.

[TurretSyndrome]

Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

Fardreamer wrote...

You've always been able to import the US into Awakening with no cheating or console commands. You just import the epilogue save, and your warden is somehow brought back to life.

No it retcons it into the DR if you import an US.

Believe it or not, it doesn't. Even if you play as your Ultimate Sacrifice warden in Awakening, you'll be noted as dead in DA 2. There's absolutely no mention of the Dark Ritual being performed. I was put off by the same thing from playing Awakening, for a while at first, before I actually took a look at what's really going on.

The World State is always tied in to your character, so if you can't import the character, you can't update the world. My workaround is based on pretty simple logic. You import the character thus also importing the World State but then change his/her background, since the background, class, and race affect the dialogue and choices you make in Awakening. Once you import your character, no matter what you do to him/her the World State will not change, unless of course you specifically edit plot flags. Therefore, the game allows you to play as the Orlesian while keeping the World State intact. You can check that out in my video.

So much for mysteriously coming back to life eh? DA:O save choices are always prioritized over DA: OA in DA 2. Meaning, everytime there's a clash between a DA:O choice and a DA: OA choice, Origins choice wins. This is probably not the case for each and every choice you make in Awakening though, as some are available for the Hero of Ferelden and some for the Orlesian.

Having said that, I never throughly tested the imports, especially since there are very few choices that are acknowledged in DA2 from both Origins and it's expansion, for it to be worth it. 

Also, a note to some people calling it a cheat, it isn't. It's a workaround, like many others done in Awakening. I actually lost all my stuff + brought back down to the default level of Awakening. I know I'm being nitpicky, but it just feels like being pinched everytime someone calls it a cheat. 

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:33 .

[Silfren]

[quote]TurretSyndrome wrote...

[quote]Arcane Warrior Mage Hawke wrote...

[quote]Fardreamer wrote...

You've always been able to import the US into Awakening with no cheating or console commands. You just import the epilogue save, and your warden is somehow brought back to life. [/quote]No it retcons it into the DR if you import an US.
[/quote]

Believe it or not, it doesn't. Even if you play as your Ultimate Sacrifice warden in Awakening, you'll be noted as dead in DA 2. There's absolutely no mention of the Dark Ritual being performed. I was put off by the same thing from playing Awakening, for a while at first, before I actually took a look at what's really going on.[/quote][/quote]

Well, yes, it does, given that Awakening is being talked about, not DA2.  But those references in DA2 could well just be bugs, not a sign that you're somehow properly importing a US save.  If you import an US Warden into Awakening, thereby retconning that Warden into being a alive, and then import THAT save into DA2, of course it would bork things in that game: clearly it does since by importing a Warden who died into Awakening, you bring them back to life, and it would be kind of odd for DA2 to somehow flag that Warden as dead.

Modifié par Silfren, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:39 .

[Silfren]

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I agree there's no official canon.  What was said was "Bioware's own story," which I took to mean it was assumed that Bioware had its own canon story.

David Gaider's stated that BioWare's default for books/comics/DAI is a female dalish who performed the US.

Do you have a link for this?  I'd love to read it for myself if possible.  I find it difficult to believe since they write the books specifically to avoid mentioning ANY details about the Warden.  Seems if they had decided to have a default for the books and comics, this would have been reflected in Asunder, rather than dancing around it in order to allow for any interpretation.

Here's the one for the game default. I couldn't tell you whether or not Gaider covers the canon in the books.

Well, that's unfortunately not the one I'm interested in, but thank you.  I'm well aware of Bioware having default world states for imports into their games, what I challenge is the idea that they've got a particular canon Warden that they use for their books and comics.  Especially since I can definitively state that the book Asunder has no such thing and indeed that it only ever mentions the Hero of Ferelden in a very oblique way.  If it were true that Bioware were using the canon of a Dalish woman as the Warden, then they would just go with that and not bother dancing around the issue.

Modifié par Silfren, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:45 .

[TurretSyndrome]

Silfren wrote...
Well, yes, it does, given that Awakening is being talked about, not DA2.  But those references in DA2 could well just be bugs, not a sign that you're somehow properly importing a US save.  If you import an US Warden into Awakening, thereby retconning that Warden into being a alive, and then import THAT save into DA2, of course it would bork things in that game: clearly it does since by importing a Warden who died into Awakening, you bring them back to life, and it would be kind of odd for DA2 to somehow flag that Warden as dead.

Nope. You can check if you want. Simplest way to do it is to import your US save to Awakening as usual, then import that save to Witch Hunt. Listen to what Morrigan will say. And it's not a bug in DA 2 or anything either. Everything you see written in the Plot Summary when you import your save into DA 2 is an acknowledgement of what's been done in Origins and Awakening.

Bottom line, DA: O will not change your US choice to DR. Not in DA: O, not in DA 2. I've tested it enough times using different methods to come to this conclusion. You're literally a dead man walking in Awakening.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:55 .

[Neverwinter_Knight77]

My Dwarven Noble didn't trust magic, much less a "dark ritual".  He knew that he would never be able to take the throne, and Alistair had become a good friend, so my dwarven noble decided to make the sacrifice.  After all, what more honorable way to go out than in a blaze of glory, and save the world from the blight.

Modifié par Neverwinter_Knight77, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:47 .

[SirGladiator]

They stated a while back, that all the default decisions in DAI will be the ones that are simplest for them, they aren't making them 'canon' or saying its 'their decision' or anything like that. They're using no preference whatsoever for any decision other than 'what is easiest to implement?'. It's the best way to do it in my opinion, as not only does it save them time to spend on something more important, it's likely to lead to a lot of really dumb/bad choices, which encourages you to go to the Keep and make the right choices yourself so you don't have to play it that way, everybody wins.

[Silfren]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Well, yes, it does, given that Awakening is being talked about, not DA2.  But those references in DA2 could well just be bugs, not a sign that you're somehow properly importing a US save.  If you import an US Warden into Awakening, thereby retconning that Warden into being a alive, and then import THAT save into DA2, of course it would bork things in that game: clearly it does since by importing a Warden who died into Awakening, you bring them back to life, and it would be kind of odd for DA2 to somehow flag that Warden as dead.

Nope. You check if you want. Simplest way to do it is import your US save to Awakening as usual, then import that save to Witch Hunt. Listen to what Morrigan will say. And it's not a bug in DA 2 or anything either. Everything you see written in the Plot Summary when you import your save into DA 2 is an acknowledgement of what's been done in Origins and Awakening.

Bottom line, DA: O will not change your US choice to DR. Not in DA: O, not in DA 2. I've tested it enough times using different methods to come to this conclusion.

Just tell me what Morrigan says, please.  But something isn't right here.  Assuming we don't use your youtube workaround to play an Orlesian Warden while importing the world state from a US ending, if you import an Origins save where your Warden died, into Awakening, that Warden is alive, which DOES mean that your save was retconned to the DR.  I'm boggled as to how you can deny that.  

[TurretSyndrome]

Silfren wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Well, yes, it does, given that Awakening is being talked about, not DA2.  But those references in DA2 could well just be bugs, not a sign that you're somehow properly importing a US save.  If you import an US Warden into Awakening, thereby retconning that Warden into being a alive, and then import THAT save into DA2, of course it would bork things in that game: clearly it does since by importing a Warden who died into Awakening, you bring them back to life, and it would be kind of odd for DA2 to somehow flag that Warden as dead.

Nope. You check if you want. Simplest way to do it is import your US save to Awakening as usual, then import that save to Witch Hunt. Listen to what Morrigan will say. And it's not a bug in DA 2 or anything either. Everything you see written in the Plot Summary when you import your save into DA 2 is an acknowledgement of what's been done in Origins and Awakening.

Bottom line, DA: O will not change your US choice to DR. Not in DA: O, not in DA 2. I've tested it enough times using different methods to come to this conclusion.

Just tell me what Morrigan says, please.  But something isn't right here.  Assuming we don't use your youtube workaround to play an Orlesian Warden while importing the world state from a US ending, if you import an Origins save where your Warden died, into Awakening, that Warden is alive, which DOES mean that your save was retconned to the DR.  I'm boggled as to how you can deny that.  

Morrigan will be upset with you for not accepting her offer as well as saying "bravo" in a sarcastic manner, for surviving without her ritual. You don't need to do the workaround stuff I said in my video to check, that's for people who want to properly play as the Orlesian. 

As I said, if you want to test the US plot flag, Import your save to Awakening from Origins, then immediately import it to Witch Hunt. Your assumption is that the game touches your plot choices, namely your US choice, I'm saying it doesn't. So, for proof, just play Witch Hunt. You don't even need to do a single thing in Awakening, just use the autosave at the very beginning, and import that to Witch Hunt.

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 17 octobre 2013 - 04:08 .

[Silfren]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Silfren wrote...

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Silfren wrote...
Well, yes, it does, given that Awakening is being talked about, not DA2.  But those references in DA2 could well just be bugs, not a sign that you're somehow properly importing a US save.  If you import an US Warden into Awakening, thereby retconning that Warden into being a alive, and then import THAT save into DA2, of course it would bork things in that game: clearly it does since by importing a Warden who died into Awakening, you bring them back to life, and it would be kind of odd for DA2 to somehow flag that Warden as dead.

Nope. You check if you want. Simplest way to do it is import your US save to Awakening as usual, then import that save to Witch Hunt. Listen to what Morrigan will say. And it's not a bug in DA 2 or anything either. Everything you see written in the Plot Summary when you import your save into DA 2 is an acknowledgement of what's been done in Origins and Awakening.

Bottom line, DA: O will not change your US choice to DR. Not in DA: O, not in DA 2. I've tested it enough times using different methods to come to this conclusion.

Just tell me what Morrigan says, please.  But something isn't right here.  Assuming we don't use your youtube workaround to play an Orlesian Warden while importing the world state from a US ending, if you import an Origins save where your Warden died, into Awakening, that Warden is alive, which DOES mean that your save was retconned to the DR.  I'm boggled as to how you can deny that.  

Morrigan will be upset with you for not accepting her offer as well as saying "bravo" in a sarcastic manner, for surviving without her ritual. You don't need to do the workaround stuff I said in my video to check, that's for people who want to properly play as the Orlesian. 

As I said, if you want to test the US plot flag, Import your save to Awakening from Origins, then immediately import it to Witch Hunt. Your assumption is that the game touches your plot choices, namely your US choice, I'm saying it doesn't. So, for proof, just play Witch Hunt. You don't even need to do a single thing in Awakening, just use the autosave at the very beginning, and import that to Witch Hunt.

That really just doesn't make sense.  If that scene plays out as you say, I can only assume it's an Easter Egg sort of joke, since the lore goes that if you kill the archdemon without the DR, you're dead.

[TurretSyndrome]

Silfren wrote...
That really just doesn't make sense.  If that scene plays out as you say, I can only assume it's an Easter Egg sort of joke, since the lore goes that if you kill the archdemon without the DR, you're dead.

I'm just amused at how much I need to do, to convince you. You call it a bug when I show you the proof in DA 2, and an Easter Egg, when it is in Witch Hunt. The scene did play out as I said, I don't need to lie about that, I'm just another player like you.  :innocent:

Regardless of what the lore says, you can't fight engine limitations, one of which is not being able to forward the World State to a new character. Bioware, at the very least, had the decency to not force change our main plot choices if we import our saves into the DLCs or DA 2.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

SirGladiator wrote...

They stated a while back, that all the default decisions in DAI will be the ones that are simplest for them, they aren't making them 'canon' or saying its 'their decision' or anything like that. They're using no preference whatsoever for any decision other than 'what is easiest to implement?'. It's the best way to do it in my opinion, as not only does it save them time to spend on something more important, it's likely to lead to a lot of really dumb/bad choices, which encourages you to go to the Keep and make the right choices yourself so you don't have to play it that way, everybody wins.

I think a better choice would have been to let the player choose from three available defaults similar to DA2, because unlike the import system in previous games, the Keep requires an internet connection that not everyone will have access to or want to use. New players might not care so much if certain characters and plotlines they're not familiar with don't appear in their game, but this doesn't work out well for someone who has played DAO+Awakening and DA2 with multiple characters and wants to see the outcome of their choices.

In my case, none of my Wardens have taken the ultimate sacrifice, so the default won't match up with any of my playthroughs aside from maybe the Orlesian Warden (the existence of one, not the choices made) and some of the plotlines that I'd consider the most interesting won't show up at all. Three defaults that offer different world states would at least make that content available, even if it doesn't solve the import problem.

[Silfren]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Silfren wrote...
That really just doesn't make sense.  If that scene plays out as you say, I can only assume it's an Easter Egg sort of joke, since the lore goes that if you kill the archdemon without the DR, you're dead.

I'm just amused at how much I need to do, to convince you. You call it a bug when I show you the proof in DA 2, and an Easter Egg, when it is in Witch Hunt. The scene did play out as I said, I don't need to lie about that, I'm just another player like you.  :innocent:

Regardless of what the lore says, you can't fight engine limitations, one of which is not being able to forward the World State to a new character. Bioware, at the very least, had the decency to not force change our main plot choices if we import our saves into the DLCs or DA 2.

I don't think you're getting my point.  World states is one thing, the living or dead Warden is another.  If your Warden kills the archdemon without having done the DR, you die, but if you then import that save into Awakening, the game DOES retcon that Warden into being alive, it does not simply take that ending world state but force you to play an Orlesian; this latter thing is something that can only be done via your workaround.  So to take THAT Awakening state into DA2 and have DA2 nevertheless treat that Warden as if they died, something is screwy. 

If the Witch Hunt scene played out that way (and I wasn't calling you a liar, just allowing for lack of context or mis-remembering), and was intentional, my only guess is that Morrigan is making a smart ass remark about how you survived regardless, and just assuming that it must mean either Alistair or Loghain is dead. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Silfren wrote...

Well, that's unfortunately not the one I'm interested in, but thank you.  I'm well aware of Bioware having default world states for imports into their games, what I challenge is the idea that they've got a particular canon Warden that they use for their books and comics.  Especially since I can definitively state that the book Asunder has no such thing and indeed that it only ever mentions the Hero of Ferelden in a very oblique way.  If it were true that Bioware were using the canon of a Dalish woman as the Warden, then they would just go with that and not bother dancing around the issue.

I don't think the one you're interested in seeing exists. To the best of my knowledge the only word we've got is the one I gave you.

[Reznore57]

There is no official canon that I know of.
There's a default world state for new player with a dead warden for Inquisition.
It makes sense for people who haven't played DA:O , they wouldn't know about the Warden and how the OGB came to be.
It's really more simple to just have some random dude who defeated the Blight , and the story ends here.

For books/comics , I think David Gaider has his own default world state , I'm not sure it's something very clear though.
Wynne and Shale survived and were recruited.
Alistair is king and probably was involved in the DR , because he gets angry at Yavana talking about a new "ritual".
Oh and sten survived too and join the party , he knows Alistair pretty well ,also I guess Hawke didn't give Isabela to the Qunari.

[TurretSyndrome]

Silfren wrote...
I don't think you're getting my point.  World states is one thing, the living or dead Warden is another.  If your Warden kills the archdemon without having done the DR, you die, but if you then import that save into Awakening, the game DOES retcon that Warden into being alive, it does not simply take that ending world state but force you to play an Orlesian; this latter thing is something that can only be done via your workaround.  So to take THAT Awakening state into DA2 and have DA2 nevertheless treat that Warden as if they died, something is screwy.  
If the Witch Hunt scene played out that way (and I wasn't calling you a liar, just allowing for lack of context or mis-remembering), and was intentional, my only guess is that Morrigan is making a smart ass remark about how you survived regardless, and just assuming that it must mean either Alistair or Loghain is dead.  

Okay, first of all, the World State is basically the collection of all the choices you made in Origins, and this includes your US/DR choice. Mysteriously surviving does not equal DR. The game treats you as "alive somehow" because your character still retains his/her background(Origin),  forcing a couple or more in game characters to talk about previous happenings. It was then Bioware added a bit of extra dialogue so that whenever your topic of death comes up, people say "hmmm that's weird" or something(if at all, because I've never seen anyone talk about the death in Awakening). The rest of the dialogue is same for both the US and the DR wardens.

Morrigan's dialogue wasn't the only one I checked. I said it's the simplest way to check whether or not your US choice was overwritten with DR. I also checked the plot flags using the in-game console as well as an editor mod, both of which said that the Warden died. The game itself doesn't treat you alive, the in-game characters do, and  that's because of your background(like Human Noble), not the World State.

In a nutshell, the World State records all the choices you made so far, while the character background, gender, class and race control how you will be treated in the game from that point. One keeps the record of the past while the others determine what choices you are offered, and how you are treated in the future. This is the reason why, as soon as I changed my background from Human Noble to Grey Warden, everybody started treating me as the Orlesian Warden.

In the save that I used, my Warden executed Loghain, made Alistair king. I've checked the plot flags regarding both of them and neither of them, did the US or DR, nor did their fates change. I also checked the Plot Summary in DA 2 which specifically states that I died, Loghain was executed and Alistair was made king, and that is an Awakening save that I used, not Origins. 

All of this was done by me not two days ago(that was when I uploaded my tutorial). I'm not saying that you're calling me a liar. It's just that you can either take my word for it, or check it out yourself.

Reznore57 wrote...
I think David Gaider has his own default world state.

And that is what people refer to, as official canon, at least I do. I think they just say that because they don't want people to think that they are contradicting themselves by saying that both the official canon and the choice and consequence system exist. 

Modifié par TurretSyndrome, 17 octobre 2013 - 05:53 .

[Br3admax]

Silfren wrote...

Riverdaleswhiteflash wrote...

Silfren wrote...

Gwydden wrote...

Silfren wrote...

I agree there's no official canon.  What was said was "Bioware's own story," which I took to mean it was assumed that Bioware had its own canon story.

David Gaider's stated that BioWare's default for books/comics/DAI is a female dalish who performed the US.

Do you have a link for this?  I'd love to read it for myself if possible.  I find it difficult to believe since they write the books specifically to avoid mentioning ANY details about the Warden.  Seems if they had decided to have a default for the books and comics, this would have been reflected in Asunder, rather than dancing around it in order to allow for any interpretation.

Here's the one for the game default. I couldn't tell you whether or not Gaider covers the canon in the books.

Well, that's unfortunately not the one I'm interested in, but thank you.  I'm well aware of Bioware having default world states for imports into their games, what I challenge is the idea that they've got a particular canon Warden that they use for their books and comics.  Especially since I can definitively state that the book Asunder has no such thing and indeed that it only ever mentions the Hero of Ferelden in a very oblique way.  If it were true that Bioware were using the canon of a Dalish woman as the Warden, then they would just go with that and not bother dancing around the issue.

To be fair, you must admit that the "default worldstate" is obviously the one that they are going to use for the comics. Wynne is alive, Alistair is alive and king, Sten survives. Such things in themselves are choices. They are written in such a way that they can easily tie into the stories of those who made similar choices, but they most certainly go against some of the biggest ones. They aren't dancing around anything. The Warden is simply unimportant here. Also as I said, DA:O had it's own story from Gaider. 

[Br3admax]

TurretSyndrome wrote...

Reznore57 wrote...
I think David Gaider has his own default world state.

And that is what people refer to, as official canon, at least I do. I think they just say that because they don't want people to think that they are contradicting themselves by saying that both the official canon and the choice and consequence system exist. 

1. Alistair does not perform the Dark Ritual.
2. The very definition of canon does not allow the word to be used here.