299 réponses à ce sujet

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

So they should limit their writing intentions to nurture the audience's attachment?

The closer they get to this mindset, the more the games will feel like products instead of stories.

.  Idk about you but I did not get to tell the story of my Shepard from ME1/2

It came in waves between alignments, but yeah, I was able to tell the stories of my three Shepards. 

Why couldn't I tell the story I really wanted to tell of Shepard in ME1, who wanted to stop working with the alliance, reject the Spectre offer, become a space pirate, and hunt down Saren with the Shadow Broker's intel and black-market resources?

You are missing the point.  I am not talking about adding in new outrageous options.  I am asking for the continuation of previous RP ability.

No, I'm not. I understand you perfectly. The game didn't treat Cerberus' hardcore supporters as diligently as they should, and that's unfortunate. 

That didn't stop them from doing something similar with the beginning of ME2 though, where you were outta luck if you really didn't want to work with Cerberus in the first place.

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...
It could also mean he's less responsible for the actual implementation of the story outline and more responsible for the ideas behind the outline itself...? Not sure. If so, that's promising. I loved the ideas behind the Crucible and endings way more than the execution.

I suspect that's going to be the Rorschach blot here --- how do you feel about the ideas behind the ending, leaving execution of that ending aside? ("Blot" because we don't really have a way to tease out the ideas from the execution)  I can think of a faction here that loathes the ideas themselves, and I'm sure you know the folks I'm talking about.

I suppose there's no particular reason why a writer should be expected to have equal skills at all aspects of writing. So now Mac's got the top-level outline stuff, snd can presumably assign himself some of the low-level character stuff too. ( I should probably stop thinking of the skills as being in any kind of hierarchy.)

Modifié par AlanC9, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:07 .

[dreamgazer]

crimzontearz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

a promotion with direct power, and more than he had before


 
This is not a promoveatur ut amoveatur case

That remains to be seen. He has a different job title and role though, yes.

Wouldn't be the first time somebody was "promoted" into an advisory role that ended up having less actual power, though.

by not approving ideas he can very easily steer everything in the direction he desires, so yeah, definitely not a promoceatur ut amoveatur case.

Writers: so...ME4 will end with a big SW-like celebration

Mac: no

Writers: uhmmm....bittersweet victory ala Pacific Rim?

Mac: No

Writers: -sigh- Artsy bleak grimdark apocalypse with forced protagonist death?

Mac: you got it but make sure to add a question mark at the end because, you know, speculation for everyone

Your antagonism towards Mac Walters is pretty amusing. He wrote Shadow Broker too, remember? It's one small step away from the first thing you listed.

As I said, that definitely remains to be seen, especially considering how the overarching creative control will work with the ME team from now on. Right now, I see a situation where Mac will concentrate on the comics and not be the lead writer, under the umbrella control of EA and on a somewhat level plane with the overhead project directors. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:01 .

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

So they should limit their writing intentions to nurture the audience's attachment?

The closer they get to this mindset, the more the games will feel like products instead of stories.

.  Idk about you but I did not get to tell the story of my Shepard from ME1/2

It came in waves between alignments, but yeah, I was able to tell the stories of my three Shepards. 

Why couldn't I tell the story I really wanted to tell of Shepard in ME1, who wanted to stop working with the alliance, reject the Spectre offer, become a space pirate, and hunt down Saren with the Shadow Broker's intel and black-market resources?

You are missing the point.  I am not talking about adding in new outrageous options.  I am asking for the continuation of previous RP ability.

No, I'm not. I understand you perfectly. The game didn't treat Cerberus' hardcore supporters as diligently as they should, and that's unfortunate. 

That didn't stop them from doing something similar with the beginning of ME2 though, where you were outta luck if you really didn't want to work with Cerberus in the first place.

And you could express your discontent with Cerberus in a variety of ways, telling off TIM, Miranda, etc... to directyl sabotaging their goals.

No such ability exists in ME3

[Kel Riever]

Again, I am wondering why people think Mass Effect 4 will be good?

Edit:  I should say if they think anyone involved in the ending(s) of ME3 is working on it.

I think it will be better with the MP team.  If that team can toss those responsible for the ending(s)

Modifié par Kel Riever, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:05 .

[shingara]

dreamgazer wrote...

Your antagonism towards Mac Walters is pretty amusing. He wrote Shadow Broker too, remember? It's one small step away from the first thing you listed.

As I said, that definitely remains to be seen, especially considering how the overarching creative control will work with the ME team from now on. Right now, I see a situation where Mac will concentrate on the comics and not be the lead writer, under the umbrella control of EA and on a somewhat level plane with the overhead project directors. 

 Let me ask you, if you had the power who would you put in charge, walters or karpyshyn ?

[AlanC9]

shingara wrote...

 Let me ask you, if you had the power who would you put in charge, walters or karpyshyn ?

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

[Steelcan]

Kel Riever wrote...

Again, I am wondering why people think Mass Effect 4 will be good?

Edit:  I should say if they think anyone involved in the ending(s) of ME3 is working on it.

I think it will be better with the MP team.  If that team can toss those responsible for the ending(s)

The same also made Omega..... Does not inspire confidence

[crimzontearz]

dreamgazer wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

a promotion with direct power, and more than he had before


 
This is not a promoveatur ut amoveatur case

That remains to be seen. He has a different job title and role though, yes.

Wouldn't be the first time somebody was "promoted" into an advisory role that ended up having less actual power, though.

by not approving ideas he can very easily steer everything in the direction he desires, so yeah, definitely not a promoceatur ut amoveatur case.

Writers: so...ME4 will end with a big SW-like celebration

Mac: no

Writers: uhmmm....bittersweet victory ala Pacific Rim?

Mac: No

Writers: -sigh- Artsy bleak grimdark apocalypse with forced protagonist death?

Mac: you got it but make sure to add a question mark at the end because, you know, speculation for everyone

Your antagonism towards Mac Walters is pretty amusing. He wrote Shadow Broker too, remember? It's one small step away from the first thing you listed.

As I said, that definitely remains to be seen, especially considering how the overarching creative control will work with the ME team from now on. Right now, I see a situation where Mac will concentrate on the comics and not be the lead writer, under the umbrella control of EA and on a somewhat level plane with the overhead project directors. 

my antagonism stems from the fact he lied (of omission and otherwise), he was condescending in his handling of the post ME3 fallout, he decided "he knew best" and, lo and behold, he seems to have learned nothing from it all so....yeah why exactly should I not be until his actions prove me wrong? 

[Kel Riever]

AlanC9 wrote...

shingara wrote...

 Let me ask you, if you had the power who would you put in charge, walters or karpyshyn ?

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

Are you saying because of ME2?

I think that is at least arguable. 

TO ANSWER THE QUESTION THOUGH:

Obviously Drew.  It isn't like he's flawless.  But by comparrison, its like asking to drive a car that works and one without 3 wheels while you are being told to imagine them.

[shingara]

AlanC9 wrote...

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

 Really, mind expanding upon that, what hole is this exactly. Nearly everything drew put into 2 was ripped out minus the tali line.

[dreamgazer]

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

So they should limit their writing intentions to nurture the audience's attachment?

The closer they get to this mindset, the more the games will feel like products instead of stories.

.  Idk about you but I did not get to tell the story of my Shepard from ME1/2

It came in waves between alignments, but yeah, I was able to tell the stories of my three Shepards. 

Why couldn't I tell the story I really wanted to tell of Shepard in ME1, who wanted to stop working with the alliance, reject the Spectre offer, become a space pirate, and hunt down Saren with the Shadow Broker's intel and black-market resources?

You are missing the point.  I am not talking about adding in new outrageous options.  I am asking for the continuation of previous RP ability.

No, I'm not. I understand you perfectly. The game didn't treat Cerberus' hardcore supporters as diligently as they should, and that's unfortunate. 

That didn't stop them from doing something similar with the beginning of ME2 though, where you were outta luck if you really didn't want to work with Cerberus in the first place.

And you could express your discontent with Cerberus in a variety of ways, telling off TIM, Miranda, etc... to directyl sabotaging their goals.

No such ability exists in ME3

So you're wanting to tell off the Alliance and sabotage their goals in ME3, while the Reapers are rapidly extinguishing all life as it's known?  I can understand wanting to voice more frustration with the way they're handling the situation (and you can voice some frustration/trepidation with the idea of the Crucible), but there's only so much believable discontent I can see coming out of this situation from a Cerberus-supporting Shepard shorhorned into it.  It's doomsday, quite literally. 

However, I do agree that discussing the Crucible's functions---and TIM's agenda towards the possibility of controlling the Reapers---should have been handled more thoroughly.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:16 .

[Kel Riever]

Steelcan wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Again, I am wondering why people think Mass Effect 4 will be good?

Edit:  I should say if they think anyone involved in the ending(s) of ME3 is working on it.

I think it will be better with the MP team.  If that team can toss those responsible for the ending(s)

The same also made Omega..... Does not inspire confidence

You have a point.  But honestly, Omega by comparisson to the ending(s) is tolerable.

I mean, it was standard video game fare, right?  Note I do not own Omega on account of not buying any DLC after the EC debacle.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:11 .

[dreamgazer]

shingara wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Your antagonism towards Mac Walters is pretty amusing. He wrote Shadow Broker too, remember? It's one small step away from the first thing you listed.

As I said, that definitely remains to be seen, especially considering how the overarching creative control will work with the ME team from now on. Right now, I see a situation where Mac will concentrate on the comics and not be the lead writer, under the umbrella control of EA and on a somewhat level plane with the overhead project directors. 

 Let me ask you, if you had the power who would you put in charge, walters or karpyshyn ?

Drew K. is also responsible for plenty of space magic, convenient plot resolutions, borked science, waaaaaay overpowered antagonists, and the dark energy concept. It's a very tough call. 

[dreamgazer]

shingara wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

 Really, mind expanding upon that, what hole is this exactly. Nearly everything drew put into 2 was ripped out minus the tali line.

Care to elaborate on this?

[Kel Riever]

Lathrim wrote...

shingara wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

 Really, mind expanding upon that, what hole is this exactly. Nearly everything drew put into 2 was ripped out minus the tali line.

That is precisely their point. ME2 made things difficult when it failed to advance the Reaper storyline.

This is a legitimate point.  Really, ME2 is generally good, with the exceptions that:

1.  Fall from orbit was stupid and ridiculous.  Anyone can create drama without being ludicrous.

2.  Human Reaper boss monster just seemed stupid to me, no matter how you look at it.  Big skeleton made me feel like I was in a 1980's arcade game.  It isn't that it was a boss monster fight.  It was that it looked like a joke. 

The Reaper storyline should have been advanced, as opposed to the feel that this was just the middle episode of a series meant to be syndicated so it could be shown out of order

[Steelcan]

dreamgazer wrote...

So you're wanting to tell off the Alliance and sabotage their goals in ME3, while the Reapers are rapidly extinguishing all life as it's known?  I can understand wanting to voice more frustration with the way they're handling the situation (and you can voice some frustration/trepidation with the idea of the Crucible), but there's only so much believable discontent I can see coming out of this situation from a Cerberus-supporting Shepard shorhorned into this situation.  It's doomsday, quite literally. 

However, I do agree that discussing the Crucible's functions---and TIM's agenda towards the possibility of controlling the Reapers---should have been handled more thoroughly.

Cutting out the forced buddy moments with Anderson, let Shepard criticize Hackett and others (TEVOS).  Let him voice some human centric opinions, things like that.

And for Christs sake an option to agree with TIM.  The "we NEED to destroy them" is so shoehorned it makes me angry even though I agree with it.

[shingara]

dreamgazer wrote...

shingara wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

 Really, mind expanding upon that, what hole is this exactly. Nearly everything drew put into 2 was ripped out minus the tali line.

Care to elaborate on this?

 Sure, drews main idea was that dark energy within itself that was never expanded upon was a result of the base races utilising biotic powers that induced dark energy that would hasten the end of the universe. This gave a reason for the reapers doing , well reaping. In 2 it was all removed but then you have a mission for tali where a sun is going to go pop because of a build up of dark energy then what. We hear nothing more why was that sun going pop, dark energy did something where once upon a time. lets ignore it type of thing. dark energy ceases to exist.

 So we then get a proto reaper even though its so radically different its laughable, what does this proto reaper do exactly, swim through space, do a space sprint. does it ride  harby like the donkey he ends up being. How is it meant to get from planet to planet. does it turn into some kind of superman type being that flys like superman.

 Then we get to 3, what are we doing exactly, we gather the biggest army ever assembled that is based upon reaper tech that somehow survives everything reaper based being destroyed, a mass relay ie the citidel becomes a ai controled entity that somehow is able to get into sheps dreams and never popped its head up before. Its somehow in control of the reapers yet cannot control its own body ie the citidel.

 I wouldnt have minded shep dying at the end of 3, but they dont just die, they die, they gain control of the reapers or the enforce there beliefs on every living entity within the universe or as a last option criumble to the floor and suck there thumb cos they cannot decide what todo.

 The only holes i see that mass effect fell into was the hole walters created trying not tobe in the shadow of drew.

Modifié par shingara, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:28 .

[Chashan]

Steelcan wrote...

Cutting out the forced buddy moments with Anderson, let Shepard criticize Hackett and others (TEVOS).  Let him voice some human centric opinions, things like that.

And for Christs sake an option to agree with TIM.  The "we NEED to destroy them" is so shoehorned it makes me angry even though I agree with it.

It would further have helped had they not thrown TIM irrevocably under the Inderptrinated-bus at the end and not given him the equivalent to the sith's force choke to boot.

Wasted opportunity, both in terms of finally getting around to the exposition of the device and making proper use of having Martin Sheen aboard as a VO.

Modifié par Chashan, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:26 .

[SlottsMachine]

shingara wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

shingara wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Drew K. dug the hole that ME fell into.

 Really, mind expanding upon that, what hole is this exactly. Nearly everything drew put into 2 was ripped out minus the tali line.

Care to elaborate on this?

 Sure, drews main idea was that dark energy within itself that was never expanded upon was a result of the base races utilising biotic powers that induced dark energy that would hasten the end of the universe. This gave a reason for the reapers doing , well reaping. In 2 it was all removed but then you have a mission for tali where a sun is going to go pop because of a build up of dark energy then what. We hear nothing more why was that sun going pop, dark energy did something where once upon a time. lets ignore it type of thing. dark energy ceases to exist.

 So we then get a proto reaper even though its so radically different its laughable, what does this proto reaper do exactly, swim through space, do a space sprint. does it ride  harby like the donkey he ends up being. How is it meant to get from planet to planet. does it turn into some kind of superman type being that flys like superman.

 Then we get to 3, what are we doing exactly, we gather the biggest army ever assembled that is based upon reaper tech that somehow survives everything reaper based being destroyed, a mass relay ie the citidel becomes a ai controled entity that somehow is able to get into sheps dreams and never popped its head up before. Its somehow in control of the reapers yet cannot control its own body ie the citidel.

 I wouldnt have minded shep dying at the end of 3, but they dont just die, they die, they gain control of the reapers or the enforce there beliefs on every living entity within the universe or as a last option criumble to the floor and suck there thumb cos they cannot decide what todo.

 The only holes i see that mass effect fell into was the hole walters created trying not tobe in the shadow of drew.

I think he meant it was Drew that created the invincible space god antagonists. 

Modifié par General Slotts, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:36 .

[shingara]

General Slotts wrote...

I think he meant it was Drew that created the invincible space god antagonists. 

 thats a tad out of context, drew had an idea that shepard becomes a cyborg within 2 as a bridge between synthetics and organics, there was some concept art showing a version of shep as a cyborg but it was never implimented, they expanded that idea to radical levels by using it as an option for synthesis.

[dreamgazer]

shingara wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

I think he meant it was Drew that created the invincible space god antagonists. 

 thats a tad out of context, drew had an idea that shepard becomes a cyborg within 2 as a bridge between synthetics and organics, there was some concept art showing a version of shep as a cyborg but it was never implimented, they expanded that idea to radical levels by using it as an option for synthesis.

Drew created the Reapers, shingara.  That's the hole that was dug. 

[shingara]

dreamgazer wrote...

shingara wrote...

General Slotts wrote...

I think he meant it was Drew that created the invincible space god antagonists. 

 thats a tad out of context, drew had an idea that shepard becomes a cyborg within 2 as a bridge between synthetics and organics, there was some concept art showing a version of shep as a cyborg but it was never implimented, they expanded that idea to radical levels by using it as an option for synthesis.

Drew created the Reapers, shingara.  That's the hole that was dug. 

 Are you for real right now, the entire series is everything vs the reapers, the reapers are not indestructable or godlike in any sense, they are just more evolved.

 But ill tell you what, go ahead and remove reapers from the game and what do you have exactly ? no seriously tell me how reapers are a plot hole in mass effect, a series based upon reapers vs everything.

Modifié par shingara, 16 octobre 2013 - 04:46 .