57 réponses à ce sujet

[kamal_]

My understanding is that hardcore turns friendly fire mode on, so throwing a fireball into a bunch of orcs will affect your party fighter who is in there swinging away. Also it turns on the ability of enemies to crit you, and I believe ups the damage they do versus normal mode. I'm not sure how any of these things could cause a freeze.

/ I'm a wimp who plays normal mode.

[Arkalezth]

I always play on hardcore (except for an exception or two), as it's supposedly the default DnD difficulty, and the only time that I remember crashing methodically was when playing Baldur's Gate Reloaded, in a particular playthrough of several, in a few particular fights, and I *think* it was caused by multiple AoE spells (Grease, Sleep...) cast at the same time.

I wouldn't give different XP depending on the difficulty. If a player wants to play on a higher difficulty, giving him more XP might make things easier, which is kind of missing the point.

Modifié par Arkalezth, 15 octobre 2013 - 04:32 .

[ColorsFade]

I try and playtest my module on hardcore because of the AoE spells, since it does make it possible to damage your own party (that, and enemies can get a critical hit on you, which is something one should playtest to ensure enemies on hardcore aren't impossible).

I think there's an advantage to building a module and testing in hardcore, and that is this: when you're playtesting in normal mode, you may not care about AoE geography very much, because your own party is immune. But if you're playing hardcore and AoE is whacking your own group, then it may cause you to rethink the terrain and geography, as a level designer, so that you can still cast AoE spells without nailing your own companions.

In the OC, AoE spells in hardcare mode are difficult to pull off in many places, because enemies rush to your position very quickly. However, if the geography of a map, or terrain of an area, causes enemies to not be able to rush you, then AoE spells become a real boon (this is why I enjoy the Orc mountains in the OC - it's an AoE spellcaster's delight being able to throw spells with reckless abandon at all the orcs shooting arrows from the higher up cliffs, etc.).

Anyway.. just my two cents. I think testing in hardcore helps establish how useful AoE spells can be in given encounters.

[Alupinu]

I to am a wimp who prefers to play on normal. I've never played any of my mods on hardcore but maybe I should? I like to see the deference in spells and ect.

[I_Raps]

All of you - LISTEN UP!

PLAY ON HARDCORE! NOW!

[I_Raps]

p.s. It should not make the slightest bit of difference for crashing/freezing. The same number and type of spells fly. Furthermore - if you can play MOTB with the insane number of spellcasters tossing high level spells with exotic effects, nothing in any non-Epic mod or OC should cause any overload.

I have had my share of freezes, but I'm reasonably sure it's not from spell effects. I can freeze doing something as mundane as stepping out of a crypt and clicking to talk to an npc before the game is able to handle the geometry of Black Lake. I have frozen a time or two just closing or opening a character sheet or inventory. The freezes are most likely common errors like out of range or divide by zero or calling non-existent handles.

The only place that I will definitely lay freeze problems on spells is coming back to the Coven from the Dreamscape;  you're wise to pause that instantly and let the computer catch up.

Modifié par I_Raps, 15 octobre 2013 - 06:48 .

[Arkalezth]

Iveforgotmypassword wrote...

There's a thing in the character behaviour window that enables you to turn off/reduce spell damage does this effect hard core rules ?

If you mean what I think you mean, no. That simply tells AI-controlled caster companions to be careful and not throw a fireball if their companions are in the way. Or at least it's supposed to do that.

There's another option which is basically the same for enemies. If you don't mind enemies throwing fireballs on top of other enemies, you can turn it on.

And yes, I'm willing to try your module on hardcore when it comes out. On the plus side, it's monk-based IIRC, and monks shouldn't have many problems evading fireballs. I don't know about the possible companions.

By the way, the fights I mentioned (where the game crashed) also had a number of enemies in them. Not the most I've seen in the game, but quite a few. I guess that, in combination with two wizards casting spells, doesn't help preventing crashes. Or maybe there's something else in those fights which was causing the crash. (For anyone who have played BGR, I'm talking about the bandit fights, when you need to find the location of their camp and might fight groups of them).

[kevL]

From a script perspective, five constants are defined in nwscript.nss (the main file that describes hardcoded functions)

int GAME_DIFFICULTY_VERY_EASY   = 0;
int GAME_DIFFICULTY_EASY        = 1;
int GAME_DIFFICULTY_NORMAL      = 2;
int GAME_DIFFICULTY_CORE_RULES  = 3;
int GAME_DIFFICULTY_DIFFICULT   = 4;

What this means is that, surprise surprise, extra effort can be used to make a module more multi-difficulty compatible. (eg. the Boss could surrender at 10% hp on #4, but at 50% hp on say #2 or less). As well as hardcoded effects like I think double damage etc. on Very Difficult (hardcore is actually "core_rules" and "very difficult" is tuffer) some effects are scripted to be easier or harder depending on those constants. For example, in 'nw_i0_spells' there are two functions

GetScaledDuration() - hostile spells decrease in duration as difficulty becomes easier.
GetScaledEffect() - some of the more powerful hostile mindspells like Confuse and Paralyze become less harmful, turning into Dazed or a simple attack decrease.

I believe the AoE hurts-friendly code happens in GetIsStandardHostileTarget(), again by using those constants above, which eventually get called by many spellscripts. The constants are strewn here and there but not with great consistency in my estimation. I think most of the consequences are hardcoded, but I'll give one last glaring case: DoPetrification()

Flesh to Stone: if Core or Difficult, die. popup, Load!
if very easy, easy, or normal; it wears off after a duration.

[Tchos]

Uh...I guess since we're all reporting what difficulty we play at, I typically play (and always test my module) at "very difficult" (the highest).

[manageri]

My input on critical hits: They're retarded. Really. The way I would deal with them as a builder is equipping my enemy NPCs with 2x crit damage weapons whenever possible, i.e. making them as close to nonexistent as I can. There's simply nothing fun, challenging, or in any other way engaging about having unlucky scythe crits shred your dudes and force a reload.

If you want to give people different amounts of xp depending on their difficulty you could use SetModuleXPScale with the stuff KevL posted. A lot less hassle than installing different files.

[Dann-J]

You can always balance out your one-hit scythe-maniac bad guys by giving them low AC, making them good Power Attack targets. Then you can potentially one-hit them before they do it to you. Another option is to give them low reflex saves so that entangle or web are highly likely to hold them back.

Basically give your players several ways to avoid being instagibbed, provided they employ some sort of strategy other than 'run head-long into melee combat' (which is a perfectly valid strategy for the OC played under normal mode, unfortunately).

[manageri]

If the situation allows dealing with that 50 STR scythe minotaur in a way where it never gets into melee, then sure, it can be perfectly balanced to have it to crit you for 300 as a penalty for failing to entangle it or whatever. Then again there's no reason you can't also just give it a greatsword or a warmace and have it do even more base damage if you intend for it be an enemy who will annihiliate anything in melee. Those kinds of specialty encounters aren't what I'm talking about though.

The point is that high multiplier crits turn enemies that should not own you in less than a round into, well, enemies that own you in less than a round. The only way you can counteract that as a builder is totally gimp their base damage or AB, which means those enemies are now only balanced when they do egt a lucky crit. It sucks no matter what.

[I_Raps]

You know, there's a lvl 2 spell that utterly prevents crits, if you see a problem ahead.

[manageri]

Doesn't negate anything I said about them being a bad mechanic. Same thing with instant death effects.

Modifié par manageri, 16 octobre 2013 - 06:48 .

[ColorsFade]

manageri wrote...

Doesn't negate anything I said about them being a bad mechanic. Same thing with instant death effects.

Actually, it does. 

That's kind of the point of spells - to aid you in certain situations. Living Undeath is a perfect answer to enemies whose critical hits can tip the balance of an encounter against you. As are a bunch of other spells such as damage reduction, ehterialness, disabling spells, holds, paralysis, whatever you need to make an encounter tip in your favor. 

Now, insta-death, hey, I'm with you on that one. As a longtime EQ guy, I hated when the devs resorted to that tactic to "balance" an encounter (looking at you Cazic Thule). That's just unfun. 

But critical hits.. seem fair to me. You and your party get them. And there are ways to deal with them. 

[manageri]

No, there often aren't ways to deal with a few lucky gigantic 3x or 4x incoming crits. That's a simple mathematical fact in this game due to the relatively high damage to hp pool ratio (before really high levels at least, which most modules aren't), and the fact that defense in this system is so heavily about avoidance rather than damage reduction. Add in the easy, practically limitless healing via potions etc and damage numbers MUST be so high that a 3x crit completely messes up everything. If it doesn't then your encounter is likely pathetically easy when enemies aren't critting you. Feel free to present whatever relevant numbers you wish to prove that wrong. The only reason crits aren't generally seen as a problem is precisely because most mods, especially the official ones, are extremely forgiving.

As for living undeath, yes, that fixes the problem (assuming you guarantee/mandate a cleric's presence) just like death immunity fixes that mechanic, and it does it in the same boring way - it becomes a dull checklist with minimal player skill or engagement; You cast the right spell before the fight even started and now you win. There's a reason such highly random mechanics are not widely used in other RPGs, nor are the binary immunity ones.

[Dann-J]

The original Baldur's Gate solved the problem of enemy critical hits by making players immune to them if they were wearing a helmet (any old cheap helmet, in fact). There's no reason that a module creator can't include items that grant critical hit immunity in the same module that includes scythe-wielding weapon masters from hell. Then it's just a matter of players equipping themselves appropriately.

There are circumstances where one-hit kills by enemies are to be expected though. A giant wielding a greatsword should be able to cleave you in twain with just one hit, just as a dragon should be able to smash you to a pulp with one swipe of a claw. Being able to stand up to such enemies and survive multiple hits is highly unrealistic. Even if your magical armour can withstand the punishment, the non-magical body inside the armour wouldn't fare quite so well.