HYR 2.0 wrote...
Because throughout history, killing preventatively always brought out the best in humanity. And saved so many.AlexMBrennan wrote...
Modifié par Baelrahn, 18 octobre 2013 - 12:06 .
Meanest Dialogue?
Débuté par
DuskWanderer
, oct. 16 2013 12:27
#51
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 11:56
Dieb
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Retour en haut
#52
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 11:59
MrFob
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I had a cold chill running down my spine when my a-hole renegade Shep coldly decided to kill Shiala after she gave him the cypher on Feros. That was just cold blooded murder by "me".
EDIT: On a lighter note (but still mean), when recruiting Thane in ME2, I like not to throw the the merc out of the window but use the renegade line after you keep him around. Especially Jennifer Hale's delivery is just priceless.
EDIT: On a lighter note (but still mean), when recruiting Thane in ME2, I like not to throw the the merc out of the window but use the renegade line after you keep him around. Especially Jennifer Hale's delivery is just priceless.
Modifié par MrFob, 18 octobre 2013 - 12:03 .
#53
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 12:13
Ruadh
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'Dammit Garrus, if you say the word calibrations one more time I'm gonna shove an inferno grenade up your bum.'
I may have made this up.
I may have made this up.
#54
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 03:21
Sundance31us
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I don't think Shepard does loose her loyalty for stringing her along like that, but IMO he should.sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Sundance31us wrote...
ME2 - Breaking up with Jack during the last meeting just before the Omega relay...renegade.
That is cold. Shepard can be a dick for sake of being a dick.
Does Shepard lose Jack's loyalty there? He should. Bioware should do a game where the squad or henchmen have certain things they won't put up with. For example, maybe if Shepard were to have crossed a character's moral line, they'd leave the crew on a hub world, and Shepard would have to recruit a replacement of a less desireable quality perhaps. Forcing role playing? perhaps but at least the crew behaves more realistically.
#55
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 04:33
Baihu1983
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MrFob wrote...
I had a cold chill running down my spine when my a-hole renegade Shep coldly decided to kill Shiala after she gave him the cypher on Feros. That was just cold blooded murder by "me".
EDIT: On a lighter note (but still mean), when recruiting Thane in ME2, I like not to throw the the merc out of the window but use the renegade line after you keep him around. Especially Jennifer Hale's delivery is just priceless.
Never picked that option as it just seems wrong.
#56
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 04:43
The Night Mammoth
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What value? They get mowed down easily enough.HYR 2.0 wrote...
Considering the value of just a single, solitary, Banshee... why not?
One Banshee can eat significantly into Shepard's war-assets when he comes back to Earth.
No, one Banshee cannot eat significantly into Shepard's war assets enough to make any difference whatsoever, and that's ignoring that the main battle, the important battle, is in space, not on the ground.
Maybe they have the resources, but there are plenty of other targets worth their time more than one single asari.Call it an arms-race. It's not like Reapers don't have resources to spare. They'll likely face no resistance this time.
I have no reason to doubt Falere. She has almost nothing left. Her home is destroyed, her mother has just committed suicide, and her sister and friends have all been killed or turned into Banshees themselves.Right, I wonder how many Reaper victims say that before they're taken.
So why kill her then, if you're not convinced?I'm not even convinced you need to be alive for them to turn you into a husk. You see the victims impaled on Dragon's Teeth: they die, and then their bodies are recycled. You can't possibly live through that transformation anyway.
Only sure way would be to die something horrific, like throwing yourself into an incinerator, or vat of acid.
The Monastery is a prison, but she's not a criminal who's done wrong, and she hasn't been locked up in a cell. It's more like rehabilitation, or an orphanage.Yeah, she pretty much has.
Only thing different between the monastery and a prison is the barred cells.
Otherwise, it's the same ish, different toilet.
They? We're talking about a single person, and that's not the point. Assuming she wants to leave, how is she going to? Even then assuming there's a functioning ship in the area, how is going to use it?... which is an even worse reality, if true. They're just about the perfect target for the Reapers.
Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 octobre 2013 - 04:44 .
#57
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 04:57
Reorte
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Definitely. I hadn't seen that scene before. That's just downright cruel, Jack finally opens up and sees something different in her life only for Shepard to tell her to get stuffed.Sundance31us wrote...
I don't think Shepard does loose her loyalty for stringing her along like that, but IMO he should.sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Sundance31us wrote...
ME2 - Breaking up with Jack during the last meeting just before the Omega relay...renegade.
That is cold. Shepard can be a dick for sake of being a dick.
Does Shepard lose Jack's loyalty there? He should. Bioware should do a game where the squad or henchmen have certain things they won't put up with. For example, maybe if Shepard were to have crossed a character's moral line, they'd leave the crew on a hub world, and Shepard would have to recruit a replacement of a less desireable quality perhaps. Forcing role playing? perhaps but at least the crew behaves more realistically.
#58
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 05:23
AlexMBrennan
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Name on historical situation that is an adequate analogy - any situation where killing a dangerous individual is the only possible alternative to unleashing them on the general population.Because throughout history, killing preventatively always brought out the best in humanity. And saved so many.
(If there had been a single facility capable of safely holding AY anywhere then Samara wouldn't have had to kill herself so we can infer that no alternative way of safely containing AY exists anywhere in the galaxy... quality writing, Bioware...)
I'm not saying I like that choice, but I do like the alternative less.
No, the only difference is that the AY will pose a danger to the general population indefinitely whilst criminals can, in theory, be rehabilitated, or at least that is the way it is presented in the game.The Monastery is a prison, but she's not a criminal who's done wrong, and she hasn't been locked up in a cell. It's more like rehabilitation, or an orphanage.
#59
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 05:30
Barquiel
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Killing everyone you meet to prevent reaperization isn't exactly a great strategy. In the worst-case scenario, the reapers send another ship to get...one Banshee.
And there's literally nothing to suggest that Falere is anything like Morinth (not to mention that even Morinth can control herself for months).
And there's literally nothing to suggest that Falere is anything like Morinth (not to mention that even Morinth can control herself for months).
#60
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 05:41
BioWareM0d13
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Not necessarily the meanest, but worth mentioning....
If Shepard is an @sshole to Ashley in Mass Effect 1, she'll confront him about treating her like she's incompetent. Shepard's renehole reply is something like "The best way to get me to stop calling you incompetent is to show me that you're competent."
Ouch.
If Shepard is an @sshole to Ashley in Mass Effect 1, she'll confront him about treating her like she's incompetent. Shepard's renehole reply is something like "The best way to get me to stop calling you incompetent is to show me that you're competent."
Ouch.
#61
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 05:59
Sir DeLoria
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sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
Another mean line:
Tali: "Shepard you can't choose the Geth over my people."
Shepard: "Upload the code."
I don't recall that quote:whistle:
#62
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:00
teh DRUMPf!!
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[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Considering the value of just a single, solitary, Banshee... why not?[/quote]
What value? They get mowed down easily enough.[/quote]
... said absoutely no one, ever.
Of course, this is a case of the player's detatchment from the narrative. It would be like if you were to call krogan weak because they get killed regularly in gameplay -- it's completely ignoring what the narrative has established about them.
In fact, I don't think there's a single moment in the story where we witness anyone but Shepard kill a Banshee.
If there's any doubt, here's the Codex entry on Banshees...
[quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...
[quote]
[quote]One Banshee can eat significantly into Shepard's war-assets when he comes back to Earth.[/quote]No, one Banshee cannot eat significantly into Shepard's war assets enough to make any difference whatsoever, and that's ignoring that the main battle, the important battle, is in space, not on the ground.[/quote]
Yes they can. They can, and I can prove it to you!
What kind of aid has Shepard been recruiting? Teams like asari commandos (which Shepard actually gets after completing this mission) and the turian military forces (supposedly the strongest allies). On Palaven, human husks overwhelmed a company of soldiers and sabotaged the comm-tower. Again, these are the weak ones we're talking about. Now add a Banshee into the mix to lead those "puny" husks. They just became exponentially more effective.
When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.
People can say what they want about war-assets' value in the game. Doesn't matter. Shepard needs all the help he can get to fight the war. That's why it's foolhardy to let the Reapers create the apex-predator that is the Banshee. 'Might as well just direct your allies to the Kelphic Valley and let the turian bomb kill off a fraction of them. It's the same thing.
And no, space battle is not more important than ground battle in this war just because the Reapers are ships. The most important thing in this war is keeping your planets safe. Without them, you cannot fight. At all. Where else are you going to get the resources you need to continue the war -- asteroids? And that battle is won/lost on the ground, not space.
[quote]
[quote]Call it an arms-race. It's not like Reapers don't have resources to spare. They'll likely face no resistance this time.[/quote]
Maybe they have the resources, but there are plenty of other targets worth their time more than one single asari.[/quote]
Lesuss harbors many Ardat-Yakshi.
[quote]
[quote]Right, I wonder how many Reaper victims say that before they're taken.[/quote]I have no reason to doubt Falere. She has almost nothing left. Her home is destroyed, her mother has just committed suicide, and her sister and friends have all been killed or turned into Banshees themselves.[/quote]
Sure you do. For one thing, when we first encounter her, we see her doing the opposite. A Cannibal (or two?) was coming after her and she ran, and tried to fight, when there wasn't reason to believe she was safe (mother conveniently swooped in and the last moment to save her). For another thing, there's nothing easy about taking your own life, which goes hand-in-hand with the last thing. So between the mental battle involved with killing yourself, and clinging to hope that you can survive if you just keep fighting, there's a lot of room for error.
So, again, I'm sure a lot of Reaper victims say they won't be taken alive... right up until they are taken alive.
[quote]I'm not even convinced you need to be alive for them to turn you into a husk. You see the victims impaled on Dragon's Teeth: they die, and then their bodies are recycled. You can't possibly live through that transformation anyway.
Only sure way would be to die something horrific, like throwing yourself into an incinerator, or vat of acid.[/quote]
So why kill her then, if you're not convinced?[/quote]
Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?
[quote]The Monastery is a prison, but she's not a criminal who's done wrong, and she hasn't been locked up in a cell. It's more like rehabilitation, or an orphanage.[/quote]
She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."
So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.
[quote]
[quote]... which is an even worse reality, if true. They're just about the perfect target for the Reapers.[/quote]They? We're talking about a single person, and that's not the point. Assuming she wants to leave, how is she going to? Even then assuming there's a functioning ship in the area, how is going to use it?[/quote]
Again, Lesuss is a colony that harbors a considerable AY population.
[quote]Baelrahn wrote...
Because throughout history, killing preventatively always brought out the best in humanity. And saved so many.[/quote]
Not sure what "best in humanity" is, but YES, if you follow my rationale, this decision will certainly save many.
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Considering the value of just a single, solitary, Banshee... why not?[/quote]
What value? They get mowed down easily enough.[/quote]
... said absoutely no one, ever.
Of course, this is a case of the player's detatchment from the narrative. It would be like if you were to call krogan weak because they get killed regularly in gameplay -- it's completely ignoring what the narrative has established about them.
In fact, I don't think there's a single moment in the story where we witness anyone but Shepard kill a Banshee.
If there's any doubt, here's the Codex entry on Banshees...
[quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...
[quote]
[quote]One Banshee can eat significantly into Shepard's war-assets when he comes back to Earth.[/quote]No, one Banshee cannot eat significantly into Shepard's war assets enough to make any difference whatsoever, and that's ignoring that the main battle, the important battle, is in space, not on the ground.[/quote]
Yes they can. They can, and I can prove it to you!
What kind of aid has Shepard been recruiting? Teams like asari commandos (which Shepard actually gets after completing this mission) and the turian military forces (supposedly the strongest allies). On Palaven, human husks overwhelmed a company of soldiers and sabotaged the comm-tower. Again, these are the weak ones we're talking about. Now add a Banshee into the mix to lead those "puny" husks. They just became exponentially more effective.
When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.
People can say what they want about war-assets' value in the game. Doesn't matter. Shepard needs all the help he can get to fight the war. That's why it's foolhardy to let the Reapers create the apex-predator that is the Banshee. 'Might as well just direct your allies to the Kelphic Valley and let the turian bomb kill off a fraction of them. It's the same thing.
And no, space battle is not more important than ground battle in this war just because the Reapers are ships. The most important thing in this war is keeping your planets safe. Without them, you cannot fight. At all. Where else are you going to get the resources you need to continue the war -- asteroids? And that battle is won/lost on the ground, not space.
[quote]
[quote]Call it an arms-race. It's not like Reapers don't have resources to spare. They'll likely face no resistance this time.[/quote]
Maybe they have the resources, but there are plenty of other targets worth their time more than one single asari.[/quote]
Lesuss harbors many Ardat-Yakshi.
[quote]
[quote]Right, I wonder how many Reaper victims say that before they're taken.[/quote]I have no reason to doubt Falere. She has almost nothing left. Her home is destroyed, her mother has just committed suicide, and her sister and friends have all been killed or turned into Banshees themselves.[/quote]
Sure you do. For one thing, when we first encounter her, we see her doing the opposite. A Cannibal (or two?) was coming after her and she ran, and tried to fight, when there wasn't reason to believe she was safe (mother conveniently swooped in and the last moment to save her). For another thing, there's nothing easy about taking your own life, which goes hand-in-hand with the last thing. So between the mental battle involved with killing yourself, and clinging to hope that you can survive if you just keep fighting, there's a lot of room for error.
So, again, I'm sure a lot of Reaper victims say they won't be taken alive... right up until they are taken alive.
[quote]I'm not even convinced you need to be alive for them to turn you into a husk. You see the victims impaled on Dragon's Teeth: they die, and then their bodies are recycled. You can't possibly live through that transformation anyway.
Only sure way would be to die something horrific, like throwing yourself into an incinerator, or vat of acid.[/quote]
So why kill her then, if you're not convinced?[/quote]
Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?
[quote]The Monastery is a prison, but she's not a criminal who's done wrong, and she hasn't been locked up in a cell. It's more like rehabilitation, or an orphanage.[/quote]
She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."
So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.
[quote]
[quote]... which is an even worse reality, if true. They're just about the perfect target for the Reapers.[/quote]They? We're talking about a single person, and that's not the point. Assuming she wants to leave, how is she going to? Even then assuming there's a functioning ship in the area, how is going to use it?[/quote]
Again, Lesuss is a colony that harbors a considerable AY population.
[quote]Baelrahn wrote...
Because throughout history, killing preventatively always brought out the best in humanity. And saved so many.[/quote]
Not sure what "best in humanity" is, but YES, if you follow my rationale, this decision will certainly save many.
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 18 octobre 2013 - 06:03 .
#63
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:02
Xilizhra
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Except anyone who's good at MP, which is supposed to represent the non-Shepard battles of the war (enemy type mashups notwithstanding).... said absoutely no one, ever.
Well... it doesn't save anyone in the slightest, so.Not sure what "best in humanity" is, but YES, if you follow my rationale, this decision will certainly save many.
#64
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:04
The Night Mammoth
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There are more differences than that, and to be honest, that's not even that much of a difference. Criminals can and often do pose an indefinite or long-term danger to the general population after their 'rehabilitation' or time in prison. Falere is not a criminal. She has not committed a crime. She has not been to jail for a crime, and is not leaving her isolation.AlexMBrennan wrote...
No, the only difference is that the AY will pose a danger to the general population indefinitely whilst criminals can, in theory, be rehabilitated, or at least that is the way it is presented in the game.
#65
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:05
teh DRUMPf!!
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Xilizhra wrote...
Except anyone who's good at MP, which is supposed to represent the non-Shepard battles of the war (enemy type mashups notwithstanding).... said absoutely no one, ever.
It would have served you well to read the line immediately following the one you quoted.
Tip for effective forumers: read more, post less.
#66
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:09
Xilizhra
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That doesn't change anything about your "said nobody, ever" line being objectively wrong.It would have served you well to read the line immediately following the one you quoted.
Tip for effective forumers: read more, post less.
#67
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 06:35
The Night Mammoth
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[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
... said absolutely no one, ever.[/quote]
I see people calling Banshees easy targets all the time.
[quote]Of course, this is a case of the player's detatchment from the narrative. It would be like if you were to call krogan weak because they get killed regularly in gameplay -- it's completely ignoring what the narrative has established about them.[/quote]
Not really. Banshee are strong, but not that strong.
[quote]In fact, I don't think there's a single moment in the story where we witness anyone but Shepard kill a Banshee.[/quote]
There are barely any moments where anyone but Shepard kills anything.
[quote]If there's any doubt, here's the Codex entry on Banshees...
[quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...[/quote]
Banshee's are strong, so what? Read the codex entries for every other enemy, there's similar broad hyperbole for them all.
[quote]Yes they can. They can, and I can prove it to you!
What kind of aid has Shepard been recruiting? Teams like asari commandos (which Shepard actually gets after completing this mission) and the turian military forces (supposedly the strongest allies). On Palaven, human husks overwhelmed a company of soldiers and sabotaged the comm-tower. Again, these are the weak ones we're talking about. Now add a Banshee into the mix to lead those "puny" husks. They just became exponentially more effective.[/quote]
I thought we were talking about single Banshees making significant differences to the final battlle as to matter to the overall outcome. Some situation like you just described would not.
[quote]When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.[/quote]
They were wiped out by dozens or even hundreds, thousands of Banshees. We're talking about one.
[quote]People can say what they want about war-assets' value in the game. Doesn't matter. Shepard needs all the help he can get to fight the war. That's why it's foolhardy to let the Reapers create the apex-predator that is the Banshee. 'Might as well just direct your allies to the Kelphic Valley and let the turian bomb kill off a fraction of them. It's the same thing.[/quote]
They've already created the apex predator. We're only talking about one of them.
[quote]And no, space battle is not more important than ground battle in this war just because the Reapers are ships. The most important thing in this war is keeping your planets safe. Without them, you cannot fight. At all. Where else are you going to get the resources you need to continue the war -- asteroids? And that battle is won/lost on the ground, not space.[/quote]
Ugh.
I'm talking about final battle at Earth.
[quote]Lesuss harbors many Ardat-Yakshi.[/quote]
Lesuss harbors one Ardat Yakshi. Jesus H, we're talking about killing Falere after the monastery has been ruined and all the Reaper forces and other Ardat Yakshi killed.
[quote]Sure you do. For one thing, when we first encounter her, we see her doing the opposite. A Cannibal (or two?) was coming after her and she ran, and tried to fight, when there wasn't reason to believe she was safe (mother conveniently swooped in and the last moment to save her).[/quote]
Yes, because she wanted to find her sister. She had a reason to fight and survive. She also didn't have a gun.
[quote]For another thing, there's nothing easy about taking your own life, which goes hand-in-hand with the last thing. So between the mental battle involved with killing yourself, and clinging to hope that you can survive if you just keep fighting, there's a lot of room for error.
So, again, I'm sure a lot of Reaper victims say they won't be taken alive... right up until they are taken alive.[/quote]
*shrug*
Falere's situation leads me to believe that she's quite capable of carrying out her threats. Remember, she doesn't fight her death at Shepard's hands, she accepts it.
[quote]Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?[/quote]
The game does, unless you're saying Shepard goes to all that effort to deny the Reapers one Banshee off screen when the game shows her leaving immediately.
[quote]She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."[/quote]
I said locked up in a cell. What do you think that means and what would that entail?
[quote]So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.[/quote]
I'm not arguing that they're not an easy target in terms of defenses. I'm arguing that she's fine being left on the planet despite her condition because I don't think she can leave. There's little to no risk of her getting out and killing people even if she does decide to give into temptation.
[quote]Again, Lesuss is a colony that harbors a considerable AY population.[/quote]
Not anymore.
... said absolutely no one, ever.[/quote]
I see people calling Banshees easy targets all the time.
[quote]Of course, this is a case of the player's detatchment from the narrative. It would be like if you were to call krogan weak because they get killed regularly in gameplay -- it's completely ignoring what the narrative has established about them.[/quote]
Not really. Banshee are strong, but not that strong.
[quote]In fact, I don't think there's a single moment in the story where we witness anyone but Shepard kill a Banshee.[/quote]
There are barely any moments where anyone but Shepard kills anything.
[quote]If there's any doubt, here's the Codex entry on Banshees...
[quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...[/quote]
Banshee's are strong, so what? Read the codex entries for every other enemy, there's similar broad hyperbole for them all.
[quote]Yes they can. They can, and I can prove it to you!
What kind of aid has Shepard been recruiting? Teams like asari commandos (which Shepard actually gets after completing this mission) and the turian military forces (supposedly the strongest allies). On Palaven, human husks overwhelmed a company of soldiers and sabotaged the comm-tower. Again, these are the weak ones we're talking about. Now add a Banshee into the mix to lead those "puny" husks. They just became exponentially more effective.[/quote]
I thought we were talking about single Banshees making significant differences to the final battlle as to matter to the overall outcome. Some situation like you just described would not.
[quote]When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.[/quote]
They were wiped out by dozens or even hundreds, thousands of Banshees. We're talking about one.
[quote]People can say what they want about war-assets' value in the game. Doesn't matter. Shepard needs all the help he can get to fight the war. That's why it's foolhardy to let the Reapers create the apex-predator that is the Banshee. 'Might as well just direct your allies to the Kelphic Valley and let the turian bomb kill off a fraction of them. It's the same thing.[/quote]
They've already created the apex predator. We're only talking about one of them.
[quote]And no, space battle is not more important than ground battle in this war just because the Reapers are ships. The most important thing in this war is keeping your planets safe. Without them, you cannot fight. At all. Where else are you going to get the resources you need to continue the war -- asteroids? And that battle is won/lost on the ground, not space.[/quote]
Ugh.
I'm talking about final battle at Earth.
[quote]Lesuss harbors many Ardat-Yakshi.[/quote]
Lesuss harbors one Ardat Yakshi. Jesus H, we're talking about killing Falere after the monastery has been ruined and all the Reaper forces and other Ardat Yakshi killed.
[quote]Sure you do. For one thing, when we first encounter her, we see her doing the opposite. A Cannibal (or two?) was coming after her and she ran, and tried to fight, when there wasn't reason to believe she was safe (mother conveniently swooped in and the last moment to save her).[/quote]
Yes, because she wanted to find her sister. She had a reason to fight and survive. She also didn't have a gun.
[quote]For another thing, there's nothing easy about taking your own life, which goes hand-in-hand with the last thing. So between the mental battle involved with killing yourself, and clinging to hope that you can survive if you just keep fighting, there's a lot of room for error.
So, again, I'm sure a lot of Reaper victims say they won't be taken alive... right up until they are taken alive.[/quote]
*shrug*
Falere's situation leads me to believe that she's quite capable of carrying out her threats. Remember, she doesn't fight her death at Shepard's hands, she accepts it.
[quote]Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?[/quote]
The game does, unless you're saying Shepard goes to all that effort to deny the Reapers one Banshee off screen when the game shows her leaving immediately.
[quote]She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."[/quote]
I said locked up in a cell. What do you think that means and what would that entail?
[quote]So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.[/quote]
I'm not arguing that they're not an easy target in terms of defenses. I'm arguing that she's fine being left on the planet despite her condition because I don't think she can leave. There's little to no risk of her getting out and killing people even if she does decide to give into temptation.
[quote]Again, Lesuss is a colony that harbors a considerable AY population.[/quote]
Not anymore.
Modifié par The Night Mammoth, 18 octobre 2013 - 06:37 .
#68
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 08:45
teh DRUMPf!!
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- Members
- 9 142 messages
[quote]The Night Mammoth wrote...
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
... said absolutely no one, ever.[/quote]
I see people calling Banshees easy targets all the time.[/quote]
Who cares what other players think?
This is not an issue of gameplay. It's lore.
Or does Shepard's bodycount indicate who's strong and who's weak? By that logic, krogan and geth are weak too, so all this fuss about krogan expansion post-genophage and the quarians' war are both non-issues the writers are making up.
[quote]Not really. Banshee are strong, but not that strong.[/quote]
Dude, where are you getting this idea? Gameplay, I would venture to guess. If so, you're not getting it. Gameplay =/= narrative. If I play on casual, then everything is weak, so why is anyone getting killed by such puny enemies? Because it doesn't work like that. Human husks are one of the weakest enemies in gameplay, but in the story, they almost conquer the turians' outpost on Menae. On Tuchanka, they are almost overwhelming to the krogan. Again, the weak ones.
So, no, sorry, none of the Reapers' minions are weak. And their apex-predator is especially formiddable.
[quote]There are barely any moments where anyone but Shepard kills anything.[/quote]
Are you sure about that? Because I can think of a lot of moments where other people kill things.
[quote][quote][quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...[/quote]
Banshee's are strong, so what? Read the codex entries for every other enemy, there's similar broad hyperbole for them all.[/quote]
That sounds nice, if only it were true. No other husk variant is described as having the total package of durability, lethality, mobility, and tactical value as the Banshee does. All of the other variants are weak in some of those aspects.
That kind of addition to an existing squad of Reaper troops can tip the scales of a battle. And if collecting war-assets -- which are awfully weak in comparison to the superior force its trying to fight -- means so much to Shepard, why should it not mean as much to prevent the Reapers from getting stronger? And we're talking about the kind of addition to the Reapers that can help them destroy the very same kind of aid that Shepard has been spending so much of his time recruiting.
[quote]I thought we were talking about single Banshees making significant differences to the final battlle as to matter to the overall outcome. Some situation like you just described would not. [/quote]
No I'm pretty sure that adding a Banshee into the already-existing Reaper forces refers to a single one's impact.
[quote]
[quote]When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.[/quote]They were wiped out by dozens or even hundreds, thousands of Banshees. We're talking about one.[/quote]
Thousands? Try a handful.
"Dozens" would be like the number of Cerberus troops chasing Shepard out of that facility on Jacob's mission.
Samara's mission... you can count the enemies on one hand.
[quote]Ugh.
I'm talking about final battle at Earth.[/quote]
The final battle depended on the ground battle, not space.
Had Shepard/Hammer Team failed, the space battle would have been completely irrelevant.
Not that Shepard had the luxury of knowing exactly what would be needed, but that's why both are equally important until further notice (and why it makes sense to protect those assets against a possible threat; case in point).
[quote]Lesuss harbors one Ardat Yakshi. Jesus H, we're talking about killing Falere after the monastery has been ruined and all the Reaper forces and other Ardat Yakshi killed. [/quote]
It's a colony.
There are other people there.
The Reapers' invasion and/or the commandos mission may have lead some AY to break out of the monastery.
[quote]Yes, because she wanted to find her sister. She had a reason to fight and survive. She also didn't have a gun.[/quote]
And she still has reason to fight and survive:
(1) mother is still alive (maybe); (2) wanting to live; (3) not wanting to die.
What if her gun jams, or runs out of clips?
[quote]*shrug*
Falere's situation leads me to believe that she's quite capable of carrying out her threats. Remember, she doesn't fight her death at Shepard's hands, she accepts it.[/quote]
Yeah, she does come off as the kind of self-righteous moron her mother was.
[quote]
[quote]Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?[/quote]The game does, unless you're saying Shepard goes to all that effort to deny the Reapers one Banshee off screen when the game shows her leaving immediately.[/quote]
What's he supposed to do with it 'til the shuttle arrives?
Sometimes reading a bit beyond the presented information is necessary.
If not, I can dismiss your claim that Falere has that gun you alluded to earlier as a means to prevent her capture. We never actually see her being given one. I'll grant it to you, though, because it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make.
Sadly, people around here are practically allergic to doing that. Stigma of "speculation," no doubt, as well as the dismissive nature of many over alternative explanations as "headcanon." Nonetheless, it's no less a necessary practice.
[quote]
[quote]She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."[/quote]I said locked up in a cell. What do you think that means and what would that entail?[/quote]
So prison is not prison without the cells? I don't think so. And it's pretty likely that they do have cells, in the sense that they would have private quarters that they must be in at a certain time and are not allowed to keep company in.
It's still a prison, just one in the guise of a fancy estate.
Let me tell you about the worst vacation I ever experienced... I went to Florida with my family years back, and my old man was upset at me for something. My punishment was not getting to go out with the rest of them for the activities they had planned -- I was confined to the hotel. At first blush, that's not much of a punishment. I have all the amenities of the hotel at my disposal just about all day long, and it was a fairly nice hotel as well with lots of things I could take advantage of: pool, gym, eateries, computers w/ internet access, etc. However, the fun wore off after about 1 day and I'm telling you, it absolutely sucked for the rest of the week. Confinement is confinement. Doesn't matter how nice a place you're staying in.
Falere may not be a criminal, but she's treated like one. Morinth recognized it and ran -- and I don't blame her.
[quote]
[quote]So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.[/quote]I'm not arguing that they're not an easy target in terms of defenses. I'm arguing that she's fine being left on the planet despite her condition because I don't think she can leave. There's little to no risk of her getting out and killing people even if she does decide to give into temptation.[/quote]
Well, there *is* a population beyond the monastery.
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
... said absolutely no one, ever.[/quote]
I see people calling Banshees easy targets all the time.[/quote]
Who cares what other players think?
This is not an issue of gameplay. It's lore.
Or does Shepard's bodycount indicate who's strong and who's weak? By that logic, krogan and geth are weak too, so all this fuss about krogan expansion post-genophage and the quarians' war are both non-issues the writers are making up.
[quote]Not really. Banshee are strong, but not that strong.[/quote]
Dude, where are you getting this idea? Gameplay, I would venture to guess. If so, you're not getting it. Gameplay =/= narrative. If I play on casual, then everything is weak, so why is anyone getting killed by such puny enemies? Because it doesn't work like that. Human husks are one of the weakest enemies in gameplay, but in the story, they almost conquer the turians' outpost on Menae. On Tuchanka, they are almost overwhelming to the krogan. Again, the weak ones.
So, no, sorry, none of the Reapers' minions are weak. And their apex-predator is especially formiddable.
[quote]There are barely any moments where anyone but Shepard kills anything.[/quote]
Are you sure about that? Because I can think of a lot of moments where other people kill things.
[quote][quote][quote]ME3 Codex wrote...
Banshees are the corrupted asari often found leading a Reaper strike force. The Reapers create them specifically from asari with active or latent predispositions to becoming Ardat-Yakshi, a rare neurological condition that enhances the asari's biotic power while causing the immediate death of anyone she mates with.
Lumbering as though in constant pain, the emaciated banshees are surprisingly durable opponents. They are devastating biotics able to hurl lethal balls of energy and create shockwaves as they regenerate. What Alliance military finds most disturbing is the Banshee's ability to spawn her own warp field and seemingly teleport during combat.[/quote]
Which leads me into...[/quote]
Banshee's are strong, so what? Read the codex entries for every other enemy, there's similar broad hyperbole for them all.[/quote]
That sounds nice, if only it were true. No other husk variant is described as having the total package of durability, lethality, mobility, and tactical value as the Banshee does. All of the other variants are weak in some of those aspects.
That kind of addition to an existing squad of Reaper troops can tip the scales of a battle. And if collecting war-assets -- which are awfully weak in comparison to the superior force its trying to fight -- means so much to Shepard, why should it not mean as much to prevent the Reapers from getting stronger? And we're talking about the kind of addition to the Reapers that can help them destroy the very same kind of aid that Shepard has been spending so much of his time recruiting.
[quote]I thought we were talking about single Banshees making significant differences to the final battlle as to matter to the overall outcome. Some situation like you just described would not. [/quote]
No I'm pretty sure that adding a Banshee into the already-existing Reaper forces refers to a single one's impact.
[quote]
[quote]When clearing the AY monastery, the team of asari-commandos were completely wiped out by Banshees. So if the Reapers create another Banshee, that asari-commando unit you recruited is moot because the Reapers have, in effect, matched that. And it's not like that Banshee is going to stop at the commando squad, either. It'll kill many more before it dies.[/quote]They were wiped out by dozens or even hundreds, thousands of Banshees. We're talking about one.[/quote]
Thousands? Try a handful.
"Dozens" would be like the number of Cerberus troops chasing Shepard out of that facility on Jacob's mission.
Samara's mission... you can count the enemies on one hand.
[quote]Ugh.
I'm talking about final battle at Earth.[/quote]
The final battle depended on the ground battle, not space.
Had Shepard/Hammer Team failed, the space battle would have been completely irrelevant.
Not that Shepard had the luxury of knowing exactly what would be needed, but that's why both are equally important until further notice (and why it makes sense to protect those assets against a possible threat; case in point).
[quote]Lesuss harbors one Ardat Yakshi. Jesus H, we're talking about killing Falere after the monastery has been ruined and all the Reaper forces and other Ardat Yakshi killed. [/quote]
It's a colony.
There are other people there.
The Reapers' invasion and/or the commandos mission may have lead some AY to break out of the monastery.
[quote]Yes, because she wanted to find her sister. She had a reason to fight and survive. She also didn't have a gun.[/quote]
And she still has reason to fight and survive:
(1) mother is still alive (maybe); (2) wanting to live; (3) not wanting to die.
What if her gun jams, or runs out of clips?
[quote]*shrug*
Falere's situation leads me to believe that she's quite capable of carrying out her threats. Remember, she doesn't fight her death at Shepard's hands, she accepts it.[/quote]
Yeah, she does come off as the kind of self-righteous moron her mother was.
[quote]
[quote]Who said I'll leave her corpse lying around?[/quote]The game does, unless you're saying Shepard goes to all that effort to deny the Reapers one Banshee off screen when the game shows her leaving immediately.[/quote]
What's he supposed to do with it 'til the shuttle arrives?
Sometimes reading a bit beyond the presented information is necessary.
If not, I can dismiss your claim that Falere has that gun you alluded to earlier as a means to prevent her capture. We never actually see her being given one. I'll grant it to you, though, because it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make.
Sadly, people around here are practically allergic to doing that. Stigma of "speculation," no doubt, as well as the dismissive nature of many over alternative explanations as "headcanon." Nonetheless, it's no less a necessary practice.
[quote]
[quote]She's confined to the monastery, under supervision. I'd say that fits the descripition of "locked up."[/quote]I said locked up in a cell. What do you think that means and what would that entail?[/quote]
So prison is not prison without the cells? I don't think so. And it's pretty likely that they do have cells, in the sense that they would have private quarters that they must be in at a certain time and are not allowed to keep company in.
It's still a prison, just one in the guise of a fancy estate.
Let me tell you about the worst vacation I ever experienced... I went to Florida with my family years back, and my old man was upset at me for something. My punishment was not getting to go out with the rest of them for the activities they had planned -- I was confined to the hotel. At first blush, that's not much of a punishment. I have all the amenities of the hotel at my disposal just about all day long, and it was a fairly nice hotel as well with lots of things I could take advantage of: pool, gym, eateries, computers w/ internet access, etc. However, the fun wore off after about 1 day and I'm telling you, it absolutely sucked for the rest of the week. Confinement is confinement. Doesn't matter how nice a place you're staying in.
Falere may not be a criminal, but she's treated like one. Morinth recognized it and ran -- and I don't blame her.
[quote]
[quote]So it's not exactly reassuring to argue that it's okay because they're confined to the planet. Easy target.[/quote]I'm not arguing that they're not an easy target in terms of defenses. I'm arguing that she's fine being left on the planet despite her condition because I don't think she can leave. There's little to no risk of her getting out and killing people even if she does decide to give into temptation.[/quote]
Well, there *is* a population beyond the monastery.
Modifié par HYR 2.0, 18 octobre 2013 - 08:46 .
#69
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 10:27
The Night Mammoth
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- Members
- 7 476 messages
[quote]HYR 2.0 wrote...
Who cares what other players think?[/quote]
Me? You? Everyone should, at least.
[quote]This is not an issue of gameplay. It's lore.[/quote]
I don't see why the two are disconnected as much as you claim, in this case.
[quote]Or does Shepard's bodycount indicate who's strong and who's weak? By that logic, krogan and geth are weak too, so all this fuss about krogan expansion post-genophage and the quarians' war are both non-issues the writers are making up.[/quote]
Not their bodycount, but I don't see why the game mechanics can't reflect the lore on the issue of how tough enemies are.
[quote]Dude, where are you getting this idea? Gameplay, I would venture to guess. If so, you're not getting it. Gameplay =/= narrative. If I play on casual, then everything is weak, so why is anyone getting killed by such puny enemies? Because it doesn't work like that. Human husks are one of the weakest enemies in gameplay, but in the story, they almost conquer the turians' outpost on Menae. On Tuchanka, they are almost overwhelming to the krogan. Again, the weak ones.[/quote]
Yes, because there are hundreds of them, multiple husks for every Krogan. Regardless of what difficulty setting you're on, Banshees still die in droves to a small, three person team. So I don't think they're as tough as you're making out, and so I don't think a single Banshee is going to make any significant difference in the final battle worth the Reaper's time and effort to aquire it when there's a very large chance they might fail, and their resources could be better used elsewhere.
[quote]So, no, sorry, none of the Reapers' minions are weak. And their apex-predator is especially formiddable.[/quote]
I never said any of the Reaper's minions were weak.
[quote]Are you sure about that? Because I can think of a lot of moments where other people kill things.[/quote]
By a lot, you mean a small handful.
[quote]That sounds nice, if only it were true. No other husk variant is described as having the total package of durability, lethality, mobility, and tactical value as the Banshee does. All of the other variants are weak in some of those aspects.[/quote]
I said broad hyperbole, the specifics are largely irrelevant. Take the entry for husks as an example. They are 'particularly deadly advesaries'. Hyperbole.
[quote]That kind of addition to an existing squad of Reaper troops can tip the scales of a battle. And if collecting war-assets -- which are awfully weak in comparison to the superior force its trying to fight -- means so much to Shepard, why should it not mean as much to prevent the Reapers from getting stronger? And we're talking about the kind of addition to the Reapers that can help them destroy the very same kind of aid that Shepard has been spending so much of his time recruiting.[/quote]
Because the advantage the Reapers gain from Falere is, first, minscule to the point of irrelevancy, and second, by no means certain to come to fruition.
[quote]No I'm pretty sure that adding a Banshee into the already-existing Reaper forces refers to a single one's impact.[/quote]
You mentioned one example which doesn't give an indicator of a Banshee's effectiveness in the final battle.
[quote]Thousands? Try a handful.
"Dozens" would be like the number of Cerberus troops chasing Shepard out of that facility on Jacob's mission.
Samara's mission... you can count the enemies on one hand.[/quote]
There are far more than just those few Banshees you kill. The monastery must have had a pretty significant population considering about 1% of the asari species is effected in some way by the Ardat Yakshi gene. Why do you think you had to blow it up?
[quote]
The final battle depended on the ground battle, not space.
Had Shepard/Hammer Team failed, the space battle would have been completely irrelevant.[/quote]
The reverse is also true. Had the Reapers not been tied up in space and the Crucible not protected, nothing Shepard did on the ground would have mattered. I can concede that they both matter.
[quote]
It's a colony.
There are other people there.[/quote]
No, there aren't. The monastery is the only settlement on Lessus. The asari government deliberately blocked other settlers to keep the Ardat Yakshi isolated.
[quote]The Reapers' invasion and/or the commandos mission may have lead some AY to break out of the monastery.[/quote]
How? To go where? To do what? Why does it matter?
[quote]
And she still has reason to fight and survive:
(1) mother is still alive (maybe);[/quote]
Samara must be dead in order for Shepard to be given the option to kill Falere.
[quote](2) wanting to live; (3) not wanting to die.[/quote]
Falere is committing suicide because she doesn't want to be captured by the Reapers. If she's going to be captured by the Reapers, she intends to kill herself. She does not want to live as a Banshee, and would rather die.
[quote]What if her gun jams, or runs out of clips?[/quote]
Have you ever heard of a gun in Mass Effect jamming? Why should that tiny possibility factor in? Why would she run out of clips? She's not planning on getting into a firefight with the Reapers, and if she intends to kill herself, I'd imagine she'd makes sure not to run out clips.
[quote]Yeah, she does come off as the kind of self-righteous moron her mother was.[/quote]
That's completely besides the point.
[quote]
What's he supposed to do with it 'til the shuttle arrives?[/quote]
What can they do with it until the shuttle arrives? Run around looking for an incinerator?
[quote]Sometimes reading a bit beyond the presented information is necessary.[/quote]
The crow calls the raven black.
[quote]If not, I can dismiss your claim that Falere has that gun you alluded to earlier as a means to prevent her capture. We never actually see her being given one. I'll grant it to you, though, because it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make.[/quote]
I wasn't speculating that Shepard gives her one. I'd speculate Samara would, or failing that, she just takes a commando's.
[quote]So prison is not prison without the cells? I don't think so.[/quote]
What? It's effectively a prison, there are just no cells like the ones you'd find in our prisons, or at least the population doesn't live in them the majority of the time. People in our prisons live behind bars. The only get out for a certain amount of time, for certain, mundane activities. The Ardat Yakshi in the monastery seem to have quite a comfortable life, with free roam of the monastery, nothing like the isolation modern criminals are forced into.
[quote]And it's pretty likely that they do have cells, in the sense that they would have private quarters that they must be in at a certain time and are not allowed to keep company in.[/quote]
I'm using the word cells with a slightly different connotation. I'd imagine the monastery is more like a private school with strict rules.
[quote]It's still a prison, just one in the guise of a fancy estate.[/quote]
I didn't deny it was a prison. A comfy prison, but they still aren't allowed to leave.
[quote]Let me tell you about the worst vacation I ever experienced... I went to Florida with my family years back, and my old man was upset at me for something. My punishment was not getting to go out with the rest of them for the activities they had planned -- I was confined to the hotel. At first blush, that's not much of a punishment. I have all the amenities of the hotel at my disposal just about all day long, and it was a fairly nice hotel as well with lots of things I could take advantage of: pool, gym, eateries, computers w/ internet access, etc. However, the fun wore off after about 1 day and I'm telling you, it absolutely sucked for the rest of the week. Confinement is confinement. Doesn't matter how nice a place you're staying in.[/quote]
Like I said, I don't deny that in general, the monastery isn't different from a modern criminal prison, but I think there's still a big difference in terms of the effect it has and the mentality of the people within.
[quote]Falere may not be a criminal, but she's treated like one. Morinth recognized it and ran -- and I don't blame her.[/quote]
I don't blame Morinth for running either, but I don't think Falere is treated like a criminal. More like a person with a disability.
[quote]Well, there *is* a population beyond the monastery.[/quote]
I doubt there's a population, as small as is likely was given the fact that the monastery was there, after the Reapers.
Who cares what other players think?[/quote]
Me? You? Everyone should, at least.
[quote]This is not an issue of gameplay. It's lore.[/quote]
I don't see why the two are disconnected as much as you claim, in this case.
[quote]Or does Shepard's bodycount indicate who's strong and who's weak? By that logic, krogan and geth are weak too, so all this fuss about krogan expansion post-genophage and the quarians' war are both non-issues the writers are making up.[/quote]
Not their bodycount, but I don't see why the game mechanics can't reflect the lore on the issue of how tough enemies are.
[quote]Dude, where are you getting this idea? Gameplay, I would venture to guess. If so, you're not getting it. Gameplay =/= narrative. If I play on casual, then everything is weak, so why is anyone getting killed by such puny enemies? Because it doesn't work like that. Human husks are one of the weakest enemies in gameplay, but in the story, they almost conquer the turians' outpost on Menae. On Tuchanka, they are almost overwhelming to the krogan. Again, the weak ones.[/quote]
Yes, because there are hundreds of them, multiple husks for every Krogan. Regardless of what difficulty setting you're on, Banshees still die in droves to a small, three person team. So I don't think they're as tough as you're making out, and so I don't think a single Banshee is going to make any significant difference in the final battle worth the Reaper's time and effort to aquire it when there's a very large chance they might fail, and their resources could be better used elsewhere.
[quote]So, no, sorry, none of the Reapers' minions are weak. And their apex-predator is especially formiddable.[/quote]
I never said any of the Reaper's minions were weak.
[quote]Are you sure about that? Because I can think of a lot of moments where other people kill things.[/quote]
By a lot, you mean a small handful.
[quote]That sounds nice, if only it were true. No other husk variant is described as having the total package of durability, lethality, mobility, and tactical value as the Banshee does. All of the other variants are weak in some of those aspects.[/quote]
I said broad hyperbole, the specifics are largely irrelevant. Take the entry for husks as an example. They are 'particularly deadly advesaries'. Hyperbole.
[quote]That kind of addition to an existing squad of Reaper troops can tip the scales of a battle. And if collecting war-assets -- which are awfully weak in comparison to the superior force its trying to fight -- means so much to Shepard, why should it not mean as much to prevent the Reapers from getting stronger? And we're talking about the kind of addition to the Reapers that can help them destroy the very same kind of aid that Shepard has been spending so much of his time recruiting.[/quote]
Because the advantage the Reapers gain from Falere is, first, minscule to the point of irrelevancy, and second, by no means certain to come to fruition.
[quote]No I'm pretty sure that adding a Banshee into the already-existing Reaper forces refers to a single one's impact.[/quote]
You mentioned one example which doesn't give an indicator of a Banshee's effectiveness in the final battle.
[quote]Thousands? Try a handful.
"Dozens" would be like the number of Cerberus troops chasing Shepard out of that facility on Jacob's mission.
Samara's mission... you can count the enemies on one hand.[/quote]
There are far more than just those few Banshees you kill. The monastery must have had a pretty significant population considering about 1% of the asari species is effected in some way by the Ardat Yakshi gene. Why do you think you had to blow it up?
[quote]
The final battle depended on the ground battle, not space.
Had Shepard/Hammer Team failed, the space battle would have been completely irrelevant.[/quote]
The reverse is also true. Had the Reapers not been tied up in space and the Crucible not protected, nothing Shepard did on the ground would have mattered. I can concede that they both matter.
[quote]
It's a colony.
There are other people there.[/quote]
No, there aren't. The monastery is the only settlement on Lessus. The asari government deliberately blocked other settlers to keep the Ardat Yakshi isolated.
[quote]The Reapers' invasion and/or the commandos mission may have lead some AY to break out of the monastery.[/quote]
How? To go where? To do what? Why does it matter?
[quote]
And she still has reason to fight and survive:
(1) mother is still alive (maybe);[/quote]
Samara must be dead in order for Shepard to be given the option to kill Falere.
[quote](2) wanting to live; (3) not wanting to die.[/quote]
Falere is committing suicide because she doesn't want to be captured by the Reapers. If she's going to be captured by the Reapers, she intends to kill herself. She does not want to live as a Banshee, and would rather die.
[quote]What if her gun jams, or runs out of clips?[/quote]
Have you ever heard of a gun in Mass Effect jamming? Why should that tiny possibility factor in? Why would she run out of clips? She's not planning on getting into a firefight with the Reapers, and if she intends to kill herself, I'd imagine she'd makes sure not to run out clips.
[quote]Yeah, she does come off as the kind of self-righteous moron her mother was.[/quote]
That's completely besides the point.
[quote]
What's he supposed to do with it 'til the shuttle arrives?[/quote]
What can they do with it until the shuttle arrives? Run around looking for an incinerator?
[quote]Sometimes reading a bit beyond the presented information is necessary.[/quote]
The crow calls the raven black.
[quote]If not, I can dismiss your claim that Falere has that gun you alluded to earlier as a means to prevent her capture. We never actually see her being given one. I'll grant it to you, though, because it's not an unreasonable conclusion to make.[/quote]
I wasn't speculating that Shepard gives her one. I'd speculate Samara would, or failing that, she just takes a commando's.
[quote]So prison is not prison without the cells? I don't think so.[/quote]
What? It's effectively a prison, there are just no cells like the ones you'd find in our prisons, or at least the population doesn't live in them the majority of the time. People in our prisons live behind bars. The only get out for a certain amount of time, for certain, mundane activities. The Ardat Yakshi in the monastery seem to have quite a comfortable life, with free roam of the monastery, nothing like the isolation modern criminals are forced into.
[quote]And it's pretty likely that they do have cells, in the sense that they would have private quarters that they must be in at a certain time and are not allowed to keep company in.[/quote]
I'm using the word cells with a slightly different connotation. I'd imagine the monastery is more like a private school with strict rules.
[quote]It's still a prison, just one in the guise of a fancy estate.[/quote]
I didn't deny it was a prison. A comfy prison, but they still aren't allowed to leave.
[quote]Let me tell you about the worst vacation I ever experienced... I went to Florida with my family years back, and my old man was upset at me for something. My punishment was not getting to go out with the rest of them for the activities they had planned -- I was confined to the hotel. At first blush, that's not much of a punishment. I have all the amenities of the hotel at my disposal just about all day long, and it was a fairly nice hotel as well with lots of things I could take advantage of: pool, gym, eateries, computers w/ internet access, etc. However, the fun wore off after about 1 day and I'm telling you, it absolutely sucked for the rest of the week. Confinement is confinement. Doesn't matter how nice a place you're staying in.[/quote]
Like I said, I don't deny that in general, the monastery isn't different from a modern criminal prison, but I think there's still a big difference in terms of the effect it has and the mentality of the people within.
[quote]Falere may not be a criminal, but she's treated like one. Morinth recognized it and ran -- and I don't blame her.[/quote]
I don't blame Morinth for running either, but I don't think Falere is treated like a criminal. More like a person with a disability.
[quote]Well, there *is* a population beyond the monastery.[/quote]
I doubt there's a population, as small as is likely was given the fact that the monastery was there, after the Reapers.
#70
Posté 18 octobre 2013 - 11:55
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Not the meanest I'm sure, but I remember one line in ME1 when you ask Kaiden to give his life story, he gives a bit of his life story, then says "but that's a long story" or something to that effect and Shep just nonchalantly tells him "I was getting tired of waiting for the good part". Rude.
