27 réponses à ce sujet

[Sailears]

Anyone else find this to be a pretty amazing and refreshing pair to use on a variety of caster classes, both tech and biotic, including many engineers and adepts?

For classes with a shield stripping power (ED/overload) I take cryo ammo, for classes with health disabling powers (cryo blast/singularity/snap freeze...) I take phasic rounds depenging on what their armour damage potential is - if they have BEs then it's ok.

ULM + HVB (or piercing mod, or EB) EB+ PM! or ULM + PM on the valiant, ULM + power amp on the scorpion - keeps a pretty decent cooldown rate too, unless there's a better mod setup that someone could enlighten me on.

A lot of fun and refreshing compared to the usual talon/hurricane/shotgun/acolyte/harrier which does become boring and repetitive. :happy:

Modifié par Curunen, 17 octobre 2013 - 04:08 .

[FasterThanFTL]

I don't use scorpion in team games simply because of the screen-shake it causes for me and my teammates. In solos it is a fun Cerberus and Geth mook killer sidearm.

[Sailears]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

I don't use scorpion in team games simply because of the screen-shake it causes for me and my teammates. In solos it is a fun Cerberus and Geth mook killer sidearm.

Ah, this is not something I had thought of, though I only switch to the scorpion in cqc when chances of being overwhelmed are high. Otherwise valiant for everything medium to long range.

[AaronEh]

FasterThanFTL wrote...

I don't use scorpion in team games simply because of the screen-shake it causes for me and my teammates. In solos it is a fun Cerberus and Geth mook killer sidearm.

Almost everything causes screenshake in this game...

[FasterThanFTL]

AaronEh wrote...

FasterThanFTL wrote...

I don't use scorpion in team games simply because of the screen-shake it causes for me and my teammates. In solos it is a fun Cerberus and Geth mook killer sidearm.

Almost everything causes screenshake in this game...

True, but with scorpion the screenshakes are non-stop.

Modifié par FasterThanFTL, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:57 .

[cronshaw]

I dont like using two weapons
I also don't really use either of those weapons any more
There isn't anything wrong with the valiant there are just a ton of options that I feel are more effective than the valiant. (Saber, paladin, wraith)
I will sometimes use the scorpion on my HE with disruptor ammo but I've moved almost exclusively to the CSMG because it is just way better at killing stuff as a weapon and is fine for applying ammo effects

[OniGanon]

HVB + ULM seems pointless on the Valiant. Either go with HVB + AP or EB + AP.

The Valiant is a really nice for casters. Medium weight, good damage per shot, reasonable DPS.

It's perfect for Stasis sniping on Gold. One headshot kills unprotected infantry, two headshots kill most protected infantry, three headshots will kill a Phantom, all without breaking Stasis. I use the Valiant on my Asari Adept, along with the HurrDurrcane and Incendiary Ammo for cheesing bosses.

Classes with Overload could make good use of it as well. Overload with Neural Shock + Shield Damage can strip the defenses of all Gold infantry except Geth Pyro, opening up a OHK if you can get the headshot. Dragoons and Possessed Captains would need two I think, and Pyros would either need two shots or a piercing shot through the fuel tank.

[Sailears]

Valiant on its own, yes fine ULM is a waste. But when you add the scorpion, every bit of weight reduction helps - because using ULM on the scorpion is necessary, and the extra 15% plus little bits here and there through either omni capacitors or weight capacity in passives does add up.

PM is better on adepts, HVB on engineers (no need to combo as frequently).

I have been routinely using the human engineer with cryo ammo with this loadout - overload HS at long range on mooks, stagger everything with scorpion in cqc (occasionally target a projectile at something other than the floor to make use of ammo power).

Phoenix adept I don't feel works too well with it - I hardly use the scorpion. Funnily enough the widow works better there.
Paladin is good with this, as is the quarian female, and salarian infiltrator/engineers.

Modifié par Curunen, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:12 .

[OniGanon]

Curunen wrote...

Valiant on its own, yes fine ULM is a waste. But when you add the scorpion, every bit of weight reduction helps - because using ULM on the scorpion is necessary, and the extra 15% plus little bits here and there through either omni capacitors or weight capacity in passives does add up.

Mm, nah dude you don't understand.

HVB adds 50 weight.
SR ULM removes 15 weight.
Added net weight is 35.

EB + AP mods gives the same effect as the HVB, doesn't add any weight.

Using HVB + ULM on a SR is adding 35 weight for no reason.

Modifié par OniGanon, 17 octobre 2013 - 03:31 .

[Sailears]

OniGanon wrote...

Curunen wrote...

Valiant on its own, yes fine ULM is a waste. But when you add the scorpion, every bit of weight reduction helps - because using ULM on the scorpion is necessary, and the extra 15% plus little bits here and there through either omni capacitors or weight capacity in passives does add up.

Mm, nah dude you don't understand.

HVB adds 50 weight.
SR ULM removes 15 weight.
Added net weight is 35.

EB + AP mods gives the same effect as the HVB, doesn't add any weight.

Using HVB + ULM on a SR is adding 35 weight for no reason.

EDIT: I'm a big stupid jellyfish. Apologies, obviously my head isn't screwed on correctly today!

... I know what HVB does, I don't think you get what I'm saying

ULM + HVB is nice on engineers where you don't need to combo powers frequently, so can trade .2s cooldown for 25% weapon damage.
35 is better than 50, when taking the scorpion into account (ULM +power amp), because the whole point of this thread is the valiant+scorpion combo, not the valiant on its own.

You could argue for an engineer then that why use it at all - well it does save anywhere up ot .5s on different powers, which is significant to me.
It's 15% around the 70% to 100% region, where every little bit of extra cooldown makes more difference than if it was at 150%.

ULM + PM is better on say a human adept because you'd prefer .2s over the extra weapon damage.

Does that make sense?

Modifié par Curunen, 17 octobre 2013 - 04:05 .

[Wizard of Ox]

Secondaries are for scrubs. And I really don't like the Valient.

[Sailears]

KroGan_eRRanT wrote...

Secondaries are for scrubs. And I really don't like the Valient.

Hurricane/acolyte/talon secondaries and every single shotgun are for scrubs.

[Miniditka77]

I have used the Scorpion as a 2nd weapon with a SR before, but I don't think it's necessary on most casters, because powers work pretty well for keeping mooks at bay.  I prefer to use a Hurricane as a 2nd weapon with a SR, in case an armored enemy (esp. Brute/Banshee/Praetorian) gets really close and needs to be dealt with at close range.

[Hurkaleez]

Curunen wrote...
I'm a big stupid jellyfish. Apologies, obviously my head isn't screwed on correctly today!

You actually had it right and he had it wrong but for the wrong reasons.

Valiant is one of those guns which the HBV and Thermal Scope do NOT actually get calculated correctly. Just keep in mind that adding a 2nd weapon along with ULM mod forces the game to correctly reapply mod weights on these guys which do benefit from the glitch. So if you feel the need to bring along say an Acolyte, do not use ULM with it.

So for example:

Valiant (HVB + TS) = 4s

Valiant (HVB + TS) and Scorpion (Mag Upgrade + High Cal Barrel) = 4.5s

Valiant (HVB + TS) and Scorpion (ULM + High Cal Barrel) = 7.5s

Modifié par Corgun, 17 octobre 2013 - 05:32 .

[Sailears]

Yeah, but I consider ULM to be necessary on the scorpion, which in turn makes the HVB weight count.

If acolyte without ULM, it still can cause weight to register sometimes.

[Hurkaleez]

Curunen wrote...

Yeah, but I consider ULM to be necessary on the scorpion, which in turn makes the HVB weight count.

If acolyte without ULM, it still can cause weight to register sometimes.

I added an example to my post which might clarify it for you some now. 

As you can see, you get insanely low Cooldown without using the ULM. Adding the ULM forces game to recalculate the weight on all guns which messes up the glitch.

[OniGanon]

Uh? I stated that HVB + ULM on the Valiant is pointless. Nothing you said contradicts this.

Valiant X (EB + AP) + Scorpion X = 160 weight.
Valiant X (HVB) + Scorpion X = 160 weight, as long as the glitch actually works.
Valiant X (HVB + ULM) + Scorpion X = 195 weight, terrible.
Valiant X (HVB + ULM) + Scorpion X (ULM) = 165 weight, pointless.
Valiant X (EB + AP) + Scorpion X (ULM) = 130 weight, best option if you want least weight.
Valiant X (EB + ULM) + Scorpion X (ULM) + AP Ammo = 115 weight, but the ammo is mostly wasted on the Scorpion.

Modifié par OniGanon, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:04 .

[Hurkaleez]

OniGanon wrote...
Mm, nah dude you don't understand.

HVB adds 50 weight.
SR ULM removes 15 weight.
Added net weight is 35.

EB + AP mods gives the same effect as the HVB, doesn't add any weight.

Using HVB + ULM on a SR is adding 35 weight for no reason.

Suggesting he not use HVB means you did not understand this. Its OK, you are not required to know everything, I learn new stuff most days myself.

[OniGanon]

Heh.

It's actually the SR ULM I was really suggesting not to use.

I'm quite aware of the weight mod glitch, among several other Creative Uses of Game Mechanics.

[Jaded4Chaos]

OniGanon wrote...

Uh? I stated that HVB + ULM on the Valiant is pointless. Nothing you said contradicts this.

Valiant X (EB + AP) + Scorpion X = 160 weight.
Valiant X (HVB) + Scorpion X = 160 weight, as long as the glitch actually works.
Valiant X (HVB + ULM) + Scorpion X = 195 weight, terrible.
Valiant X (HVB + ULM) + Scorpion X (ULM) = 165 weight, pointless.
Valiant X (EB + AP) + Scorpion X (ULM) = 130 weight, best option if you want least weight.
Valiant X (EB + ULM) + Scorpion X (ULM) + AP Ammo = 115 weight, but the ammo is mostly wasted on the Scorpion.

So the glitch doesn't always work?  I thought it only didn't work when you added the ULM on any weapon... sorry if I misread your post.

[Jaded4Chaos]

OniGanon wrote...

Heh.

It's actually the SR ULM I was really suggesting not to use.

I'm quite aware of the weight mod glitch, among several other Creative Uses of Game Mechanics.

This is beautiful.  Ignore my other post.  I will be reading this instead.  

[OniGanon]

Most of the time it works fine. Sometimes it doesn't. I don't really know why, and if anyone has definitively figured it out, I haven't heard about it (not that I hear everything, since I drift away from these boards for months at a time).

FWIW I've heard it might have something to do with joining a match in-progress, or someone else joining your match in-progress. But yeah, I don't really know for sure, sorry. >.>

Modifié par OniGanon, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:14 .

[Hurkaleez]

OniGanon wrote...

Heh.

It's actually the SR ULM I was really suggesting not to use.

I'm quite aware of the weight mod glitch, among several other Creative Uses of Game Mechanics.

OK, just slipped your mind then. Great guide btw, extemely helpful. Adding it to my favorites.

You said "Mods that apply extra weight (Pistol Heavy Barrel, shotgun Omniblade etc) don't actually apply any extra weight when used on a non-DLC weapon"

This is a good rule of thumb but there are several exceptions.

[Heldarion]

How about the Hurrdurricane+Acolyte combo for "casters"?

I don't like sniper rifles on caster classes, because there are other guns that are more appropriate for CQC and if you're using sniper rifles to kill targets from afar, you're not using your powers, which kind of is the point with the caster classes.

Sniper are for infiltrators.

Modifié par Heldarion, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:34 .

[Sailears]

Heldarion wrote...

How about the Hurrdurricane+Acolyte combo for "casters"?

I don't like sniper rifles on caster classes, because there are other guns that are more appropriate for CQC and if you're using sniper rifles to kill targets from afar, you're not using your powers, which kind of is the point with the caster classes.

Sniper are for infiltrators.

That's the point - variety, rather than the same old stuff all the time...

Edit: also valiant isn't hard in cqc considering the super fast reload and high rof. But then you switch to scorpion and stagger everything between powers.

Modifié par Curunen, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:44 .