486 réponses à ce sujet

[Iakus]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

iakus wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Perhaps people like to play around with software and make things do different things and the ending provided some incentive to do it? Have you thought of that? Game modding is a creative activity. It engages the brain.

Because of this alternate ending I learned that I can write for 20 orchestral instrument parts. I didn't know I could. Now I know. And do a decent job of it.

So I'm so proud of you not losing a second of sleep or experiencing a moment of disappointment.

And a great job you did too 

Sweet mother of lol, people actually consider this good? I respect people for doing something constructive instead of just ****ing and moaning all the time, but damn. I'm speechless. 

Coming from you that means absolutely nothing.

You do nothing but troll those who don't think the original, or at least EC endings are pure awesomesauce.

[Br3admax]

For me, it's more about questioning the action of putting a Band-Aid over a stab wound, then me hating the Band-Aid itself.

[Iakus]

Br3ad wrote...

For me, it's more about questioning the action of putting a Band-Aid over a stab wound, then me hating the Band-Aid itself.

Yeah, in the end it's a band-aid.  No amount of  modding is going to make ME3's story great.  But this mod  at least cuts out the worst of the stupid for a lot of people.  And thus makes the game playable for them.

[BaladasDemnevanni]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't think the ending can be addressed without redoing Priority Earth. The suckage begins there. Hell, even bleak endings would work better if Priority Earth was good.

Pretty much this. For me, the suckage already starts with Hackett's final speech and extends to the level design (very bland) and handling of the beam run.

Good on MEHEM for doing the best it can, but I'm already bored out of my mind playing through Priority: Earth, even without the Catalyst.

[KaiserShep]

I thought the speech and the arrival through the Sol relay was pretty good. The first run to take out the Hades cannon wasn't all that bad. It was really no man's land that left a lot to be desired.

[Secretlyapotato]

Mmm, I saw it on Youtube. It's lamer than the original three endings.

[TheProtheans]

Secretlyapotato wrote...

Mmm, I saw it on Youtube. It's lamer than the original three endings.

Quite true, if you're into dark endings like me then the original endings are good.
The original endings were beautifully bleak and despressing, the EC endings were lame, stupid and sucked.
Nothing is better than the original endings, it just gets me so high in dark thoughts

Modifié par TheProtheans, 26 octobre 2013 - 07:16 .

[KaiserShep]

StreetMagic wrote...

I don't mind the no man's land, but it was just a shooting gallery. It lacked squad dialogue (except for EDI and the rocket launch bit), lacked a good closure of everyone you've know through the series, lacked any respectable implementation of war assets. This whole level idea looked like it was phoned in, while Mac was taking a dump at home. It should've been a Suicide Mission +. This was the last hurrah. The last chance to shine. And this is what they gave us.

Something I was thinking about was the design of the Virmire mission, in terms of completing tasks along the path to ensure that an ally survives. Take the part of Priority: Earth where you take out the ravagers and the marauders operating turrets. Now imagine that this was just one of a couple of routes, and it could actually be avoided, but in doing so, you cause the deaths some allies on the ground, or even more meaningful characters, and ultimately, how many "tasks" you skip can affect the final run on the open terrain. Just a rough idea, but you get the gist of it. Considering how the entire team disembarked from the Normandy, they really should have been part of the last push through this area to reach the beam, much like how you had the whole team divvied up to hit the Citadel archives in the DLC.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 octobre 2013 - 07:28 .

[KaiserShep]

Well it's like any company that doesn't want to badmouth its own product. They can't say that this is what they had to settle for.

It is unfortunate to know that the recordings exist, like the geth prime audio. I try not to think about it when I replay that part of the game.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 26 octobre 2013 - 07:32 .

[Blad3Zer0]

MrFob wrote...

Teddie Sage wrote...

MEHEM invalidates Leviathan's DLC purpose of adding more lore behind the Catalyst's existence. On the other hand, the original endings still sucked, though EC added something to them that made them feel a little bit different. I don't like MEHEM, but I don't condemn it. People are free to use it, I think I prefer sticking to my headcanon that Shepard is still alive after the Destroy ending.

That is very interesting for me since I feel the same, just ... the other way round.

I really like Leviathan as a DLC. The story is interesting, the integration of the squad mates is very well done, it fits perfectly into the main game, it has an ample amount of content for the price and technically it's almost flawless. Yet, whenever I play it, I get this stale taste in my mouth because I have played the endings when the game was released and I just know that the main purpose of this DLC is to retroactively insert some patchwork that validates the existence of the star kid. I just cannot ignore that and believe me, I tried.
So yea, got exactly the same problem, just the other way.

But with MEHEM, the Catalyst remains the Citadel, while the Intelligence remains a mystery that could be (could have been) explored in future titles. Headcanon, as some people here have said, and fan fiction, for those who love to read and write it. *darts eyes conspicuously*

[Iakus]

Blad3Zer0 wrote...

But with MEHEM, the Catalyst remains the Citadel, while the Intelligence remains a mystery that could be (could have been) explored in future titles. Headcanon, as some people here have said, and fan fiction, for those who love to read and write it. *darts eyes conspicuously*

"Lots of Speculation For Everyone" <_<

[MrDbow]

For V0.4 of MEHEM, MrFob and Team released a Low EMS Ending to go along with the "happier" ending (I hate that term).

It is put together very well.  If this was the ONLY ending to Mass Effect 3, then I would have been ok with it.  I thought it was that good.  But that is just my opinion of course.

As far as hate for MEHEM; it allows those users who were "disenfranchised" of the original ending an alternative narrative.  I thinking "hating on it" is a disservice because of what it represents to the users who "need" it for their closure of the series.

If you are like me and you accept or even enjoy the original endings, then obviously MEHEM is not for you.  However, if you are like me, then you wouldn't "poo-poo" the idea and passion behind this particular Mod.  You can question or give feedback about story implementation or editing or maybe you really dislike the additional scenes created just for the mod, but "hating on it" seems like an agenda, rather than an opinion.

 

Modifié par MrDbow, 29 octobre 2013 - 12:38 .

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

For me, it's more about questioning the action of putting a Band-Aid over a stab wound, then me hating the Band-Aid itself.

Yeah, in the end it's a band-aid.  No amount of  modding is going to make ME3's story great.  But this mod  at least cuts out the worst of the stupid for a lot of people.  And thus makes the game playable for them.

Exactly.  If fully explored there is a lot wrong with ME3 that no ending mod can truly fix, but for many it came down to a bottom line to at least feel better at the end-they'd invested time and something of themselves into playing the games.  As it was, for many, the game ending helped to reveal some of the other bad parts that might have been easier to ignore in some ways had the ending not sparked real close examination.  The other parts still would have been obvious but not necessarily as bad.

MEHEM attempts to let us walk away feeling better.  It can't fix all that's wrong and can't fully address even for me the variety of endings that I would have wanted, but with the low EMS addition it comes about as close as it could and does a very good job of it.

As I've always said, the problem with the endings goes back to how they set it up.  They used EMS to even out any "wrong" decision that would have otherwise led to some divergent ending.  It came down to numbers and a choice.  Not choices made along the way because EMS cancels them out, but one singular choice that is affected by how much EMS you have.  Our choices should have led to divergent stories and should have naturally led us to failure or success and all the shades of grey in between. 

There should have been a win-win-win scenario as well as a lose-lose-lose one and variations of those.  One win being defeating the reapers, one being the fate of those you cared about, and one being the fate of Shepard.  It should have been possible to do some wrong things, and even have Shepard live and play out a loss to the reapers.  Or, have Shepard die or lose his/her LI or friends or the Normandy or Earth, and defeat the reapers.  That's what I wanted to see.  I didn't want the galaxy to work to create a big space phallus that gives the galaxy an STD, creating green eyed babies.

MEHEM is an awesome thing and those that say otherwise have an agenda.  It's apparent to me that there are those who consistently felt that anyone that didn't agree with their point of view should just remain unhappy.  Odd thing, because if you like the game, you want it to be as successful as possible, and that means wanting as many people as possible to like it along with you.  It occurs to me that some so-called fans that want people who like MEHEM to not have it, are not really fans at all.  MEHEM is probably responsible for a whole lot of people even buying the PC version of all 3 games as well as the DLC.  Really bad for ME and Bioware, right?

[3DandBeyond]

MrDbow wrote...

For V0.4 of MEHEM, MrFob and Team released a Low EMS Ending to go along with the "happier" ending (I hate that term).

It is put together very well.  If this was the ONLY ending to Mass Effect 3, then I would have been ok with it.  I thought it was that good.  But that is just my opinion of course.

As far as hate for MEHEM; it allows those users who were "disenfranchised" of the original ending an alternative narrative.  I thinking "hating on it" is a disservice because of what it represents to the users who "need" it for their closure of the series.

If you are like me and you accept or even enjoy the original endings, then obviously MEHEM is not for you.  However, if you are like me, then you wouldn't "poo-poo" the idea and passion behind this particular Mod.  You can question or give feedback about story implementation or editing or maybe you really dislike the additional scenes created just for the mod, but "hating on it" seems like an agenda, rather than an opinion.

 

Yeah there really is no term that aptly describes exactly what I'd hoped the ending would be other than "happier" but people take that to mean bunnies and rainbows and everyone singing campfire songs.  I wanted a range of endings from truly sad to real bittersweet to yes, happy, but in context with what had happened.  The galaxy is a mess, billions have died, planets are in ruins, and everything needs to be rebuilt.  I wanted to see that just as much as I wanted to see that full range of endings that would have allowed for a myriad of experiences and emotions.  I'd have loved epilogs that we got to actually participate in where Shepard has died and everyone assembles to say a sensible goodbye-not this "well, Shepard must be dead" psychic memorial wall ending.  I'd also have loved an epilog with Shepard alive, taking an account of all that has been lost and participating in beginning to pick up the pieces.

As it is that low EMS ending feels more like you participate in a failed attempt against the reapers.  Much better than refuse IMO.

Funny you said it was like an agenda, because I had the same thought and posted that before reading this.

[Chashan]

3DandBeyond wrote...

There should have been a win-win-win scenario as well as a lose-lose-lose one and variations of those.  One win being defeating the reapers, one being the fate of those you cared about, and one being the fate of Shepard.  It should have been possible to do some wrong things, and even have Shepard live and play out a loss to the reapers.  Or, have Shepard die or lose his/her LI or friends or the Normandy or Earth, and defeat the reapers.  That's what I wanted to see.  I didn't want the galaxy to work to create a big space phallus that gives the galaxy an STD, creating green eyed babies.

Tact, ma'am.

Although it can be agreed upon that the thing does look like an oversized corkscrew...

MEHEM is an awesome thing and those that say otherwise have an agenda.  It's apparent to me that there are those who consistently felt that anyone that didn't agree with their point of view should just remain unhappy.  Odd thing, because if you like the game, you want it to be as successful as possible, and that means wanting as many people as possible to like it along with you.  It occurs to me that some so-called fans that want people who like MEHEM to not have it, are not really fans at all.  MEHEM is probably responsible for a whole lot of people even buying the PC version of all 3 games as well as the DLC.  Really bad for ME and Bioware, right?

The definition of fan is something up for grabs, so pretty meaningless, all things told. Most people wouldn't be here if they weren't 'fans' in one way or another.

That BW won't mind the additional income earned through people getting copies for PC as a result of just this mod's existence can hardly be denied, though.

[3DandBeyond]

Blad3Zer0 wrote...

MrFob wrote...



That is very interesting for me since I feel the same, just ... the other way round.

I really like Leviathan as a DLC. The story is interesting, the integration of the squad mates is very well done, it fits perfectly into the main game, it has an ample amount of content for the price and technically it's almost flawless. Yet, whenever I play it, I get this stale taste in my mouth because I have played the endings when the game was released and I just know that the main purpose of this DLC is to retroactively insert some patchwork that validates the existence of the star kid. I just cannot ignore that and believe me, I tried.
So yea, got exactly the same problem, just the other way.

But with MEHEM, the Catalyst remains the Citadel, while the Intelligence remains a mystery that could be (could have been) explored in future titles. Headcanon, as some people here have said, and fan fiction, for those who love to read and write it. *darts eyes conspicuously*

I have the same feeling as MrFob about Leviathan.  It sits there like so much of the EC as a way to provide a backstory for something that did not have any and at the wrong time, after I already have met and dislike the kid and played the game to its stunning and underwhelming end.  I see it also as optional content, something that for backstory is totally wrong and not what paid for DLC should be used to do.

When you create a game with a story, create the whole story that is foundational for the ending (especially in something such as this).  You don't create characters, end the story, and then go "oops, forgot to tell you where he came from and why he's here", so buy some DLC to explain it all.

In fact, what ends up being wrong with the EC is mostly the same as what's wrong with Leviathan.  It's obvious there were things they gave no thought to and then said we just didn't understand and we needed them explained.  But for some things, the EC actually changed what they had originally shown, though they tried to say it was our understanding of it that was amiss.  The evac scene of hilarity-they hadn't shown how the crew got back onto the Normandy and people said the Normandy must have popped down and picked them up, but that it would make no sense for it to do so.  So of course that's just what happens-but it does not explain how the others got to the FOB in London nor how those at the FOB got back on board the Normandy.  Oops.

Leviathan also in many ways makes the ending worse.  Previously, it was this warped programmed AI that had gone haywire or something, that was using faulty logic to fix a problem that likely he misunderstood.  But Leviathan says he's still following his programming.  So, big fat squid-like idiots that like to control people have a problem with synthetics always killing their thralls so they create an AI (synthetic) that they don't control well that kills them and surely their thralls.  And so, Shepard is not only tasked with solving the kid's problem (which is no longer relevant if it ever was), but Leviathan's.  Idiots upon idiots.  Just the uplifting way I wanted to end these games.

[3DandBeyond]

Chashan wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

There should have been a win-win-win scenario as well as a lose-lose-lose one and variations of those.  One win being defeating the reapers, one being the fate of those you cared about, and one being the fate of Shepard.  It should have been possible to do some wrong things, and even have Shepard live and play out a loss to the reapers.  Or, have Shepard die or lose his/her LI or friends or the Normandy or Earth, and defeat the reapers.  That's what I wanted to see.  I didn't want the galaxy to work to create a big space phallus that gives the galaxy an STD, creating green eyed babies.

Tact, ma'am.

Although it can be agreed upon that the thing does look like an oversized corkscrew...

MEHEM is an awesome thing and those that say otherwise have an agenda.  It's apparent to me that there are those who consistently felt that anyone that didn't agree with their point of view should just remain unhappy.  Odd thing, because if you like the game, you want it to be as successful as possible, and that means wanting as many people as possible to like it along with you.  It occurs to me that some so-called fans that want people who like MEHEM to not have it, are not really fans at all.  MEHEM is probably responsible for a whole lot of people even buying the PC version of all 3 games as well as the DLC.  Really bad for ME and Bioware, right?

The definition of fan is something up for grabs, so pretty meaningless, all things told. Most people wouldn't be here if they weren't 'fans' in one way or another.

That BW won't mind the additional income earned through people getting copies for PC as a result of just this mod's existence can hardly be denied, though.

That was about as tactful as I could be given what it's been called in other threads previously.  Mine is not the first to make reference to this, but is also not the grittiest as far as what it's been called.  It was an attempt at humor, rather than the standard green eyed space magic reference.  Apparently I failed but I made myself laugh anyway.

As for the term fan, I'm saying that those that claim to be fans should be more about promoting ways to actually gain more followers and not constantly be helping Bioware to turn people away-they're far too good at that themselves.  And anything that serves that interest, means more money for BW, which means more money hopefully for games that fans like and so on and on and on.  If this game had had an ending befitting the ME trilogy (IMO), I'd have been wanting to see it win all kinds of awards, and I'd be telling everyone I know to get it, play it, love it.  I'd want as many people as possible to enjoy it.  I was giving the word fan a meaning as I see it.

The other main point is that any optional created content should in no way bother some people to the extent that it seems to.  If it does, I tend to think they're fanatical for all the wrong reasons.  And I say this because I've actually had some people argue that content that they'd never see in the game would still bother them because they'd know it exists.  I see that as a problem.  If someone wanted to mod the game so that TIM kills Shepard and ends up controlling the reapers and the galaxy, even if that wasn't my head canon, I'd say, "go for it, have fun."  If someone else wanted to create an IT ending where Shepard is obviously indoctrinated, that wouldn't bother me either.  It just appears that some people feel this complete ownership of the whole game.

Modifié par 3DandBeyond, 29 octobre 2013 - 01:13 .

[KeraWildmane]

RiouHotaru wrote...

I don't mind the MEHEM, but to be honest, having seen the videos for it, I can't say I'd ever use it. It attempts to force a Dark Energy-based plot to be relevant in the finale when there's no build up or any clue. If anything the entire conversation with the Catalyst-replacement feels random as hell.

Not to mention the MEHEM to my knowledge can't account for the Leviathan DLC and the information provided there. I applaud their effort to create a "better" ending, but I honestly prefer what we got.

Except for all the stuff in ME2 and ME3 that discussed the hazards and potential power of dark energy. Remember Haestrom? Remember Conrad's dissertation? Remember the fact that the relays all run on dark energy?

[Blad3Zer0]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Blad3Zer0 wrote...

MrFob wrote...



That is very interesting for me since I feel the same, just ... the other way round.

I really like Leviathan as a DLC. The story is interesting, the integration of the squad mates is very well done, it fits perfectly into the main game, it has an ample amount of content for the price and technically it's almost flawless. Yet, whenever I play it, I get this stale taste in my mouth because I have played the endings when the game was released and I just know that the main purpose of this DLC is to retroactively insert some patchwork that validates the existence of the star kid. I just cannot ignore that and believe me, I tried.
So yea, got exactly the same problem, just the other way.

But with MEHEM, the Catalyst remains the Citadel, while the Intelligence remains a mystery that could be (could have been) explored in future titles. Headcanon, as some people here have said, and fan fiction, for those who love to read and write it. *darts eyes conspicuously*

I have the same feeling as MrFob about Leviathan.  It sits there like so much of the EC as a way to provide a backstory for something that did not have any and at the wrong time, after I already have met and dislike the kid and played the game to its stunning and underwhelming end.  I see it also as optional content, something that for backstory is totally wrong and not what paid for DLC should be used to do.

When you create a game with a story, create the whole story that is foundational for the ending (especially in something such as this).  You don't create characters, end the story, and then go "oops, forgot to tell you where he came from and why he's here", so buy some DLC to explain it all.

In fact, what ends up being wrong with the EC is mostly the same as what's wrong with Leviathan.  It's obvious there were things they gave no thought to and then said we just didn't understand and we needed them explained.  But for some things, the EC actually changed what they had originally shown, though they tried to say it was our understanding of it that was amiss.  The evac scene of hilarity-they hadn't shown how the crew got back onto the Normandy and people said the Normandy must have popped down and picked them up, but that it would make no sense for it to do so.  So of course that's just what happens-but it does not explain how the others got to the FOB in London nor how those at the FOB got back on board the Normandy.  Oops.

Leviathan also in many ways makes the ending worse.  Previously, it was this warped programmed AI that had gone haywire or something, that was using faulty logic to fix a problem that likely he misunderstood.  But Leviathan says he's still following his programming.  So, big fat squid-like idiots that like to control people have a problem with synthetics always killing their thralls so they create an AI (synthetic) that they don't control well that kills them and surely their thralls.  And so, Shepard is not only tasked with solving the kid's problem (which is no longer relevant if it ever was), but Leviathan's.  Idiots upon idiots.  Just the uplifting way I wanted to end these games.

Granted. It was the worst of cop-outs. But given that this information has been dispersed, we have a choice of where to take it ourselves from here, especially given how much MEHEM has grown.

As for the Leviathans, it's no surprise that they would say that about the Intelligence. Life is probably as much black and white to them as it is to the Reapers, given their perception of the rest of the galaxy as their tools.

Modifié par Blad3Zer0, 29 octobre 2013 - 04:21 .

[3DandBeyond]

Blad3Zer0 wrote...


Granted. It was the worst of cop-outs. But given that this information has been dispersed, we have a choice of where to take it ourselves from here, especially given how much MEHEM has grown.

As for the Leviathans, it's no surprise that they would say that about the Intelligence. Life is probably as much black and white to them as it is to the Reapers, given their perception of the rest of the galaxy as their tools.

Sure and that's the point.  For the Leviathans, reapers, and even Protheans and much of life in the galaxy there seems to be a lot of black and white.  So much so, that they lack an inherent ability to even want to recognize true threats and to be able to mount a real defense, or so it seems.  Ultimately, they're able to work together but the story doesn't do a great job of actually showing that it is as much or more about their innate abilities coming out as it is Shepard enacting bargains.  Everyone is seen as rather 2 dimensional and I say this about ME1 and 2 as well.  The true catalyst is Shepard as they've portrayed him/her throughout but there's a real lack of depth displayed by the abilities of individuals and individual races that does them a disservice. 

Even in trying to explain what I find one of the core wrong points of the endings I most often have to state it in human terms or use just the broad organic term which leaves out the geth and is therefore wrong.  The endings don't allow for the ability of people to self-determine and through their mistakes to succeed on their own terms.  It pays service to the validity of the Leviathan way of life and their understanding of what threatens them, which is just as real in Prothean times and in a galaxy in current times that constantly sees nothing wrong in uplifting and advancing races to suit their needs and then dispensing with them when they pose a real or imagined threat.  That's not so different from what has come before.  What is different is that some see things differently and are given a voice.  The endings stifle that voice. 

And Leviathan as a basis for the endings and the reason for the kid and thus the reason for the reapers is what making a choice serves-a problem that people who were far more advanced than Protheans or Leviathans could never recognize as real or true.  The endings serve the Leviathans and what they see as a problem, but they're obtuse and constantly stifle their thralls mostly through control.  They had no free will and perhaps kept creating killer synthetics as a way out of an enthralled existence.  We're all but forced to see Leviathan's problem as real, make a choice that is a product of this problem, and cannot invoke even the notion of individualism and therefore an ability to solve problems through the use on internal individual as well as cooperative intelligence.  It's why for me Hackett's speech in Destroy rings rather false-part of why it does.  He speaks of everyone working together to defeat the reapers and yet nothing about any of the choices actually feels like the whole galaxy working together did anything-in Destroy, it certainly meant nothing for those destroyed by it-great reward for working together.

[3DandBeyond]

Kerasth wrote...

RiouHotaru wrote...

I don't mind the MEHEM, but to be honest, having seen the videos for it, I can't say I'd ever use it. It attempts to force a Dark Energy-based plot to be relevant in the finale when there's no build up or any clue. If anything the entire conversation with the Catalyst-replacement feels random as hell.

Not to mention the MEHEM to my knowledge can't account for the Leviathan DLC and the information provided there. I applaud their effort to create a "better" ending, but I honestly prefer what we got.

Except for all the stuff in ME2 and ME3 that discussed the hazards and potential power of dark energy. Remember Haestrom? Remember Conrad's dissertation? Remember the fact that the relays all run on dark energy?

Yep, especially Conrad in ME3 and Shepard telling him they were creating a Dark Energy weapon.  And the fact that dark energy kind of has a hand in everything from eezo to biotics, that it actually can be used to manipulate mass effect fields (what it does for the relays I believe) thereby lowering the mass of objects (which is one specific way to create a real vulnerability in a reaper-especially since they have to lower their mass to land on planets).  There's also a little thing called a codex with information on it.

There is much to suggest that BW did indeed begin the crucible with the idea of it being a big space cannon, but they couldn't carry it off to not seem cheap.  It was supposed to be a dark energy weapon and easily could have been used to weaken the reapers leading to a real fight.  They balked at this because someone must have wanted to get all creative (or wanted to end the franchise).

[BeastSaver]

The people who worked on MEHEM very probably feel a sense of pride for their contribution and the creative process that went into the project. In that way they are very like Bioware staff, IMO.

Some people will love it, some will hate it, some will feel neutral. For me, it's not required to enjoy the game. If it gives others pleasure, I have no problem with that.

[wright1978]

iakus wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

For me, it's more about questioning the action of putting a Band-Aid over a stab wound, then me hating the Band-Aid itself.

Yeah, in the end it's a band-aid.  No amount of  modding is going to make ME3's story great.  But this mod  at least cuts out the worst of the stupid for a lot of people.  And thus makes the game playable for them.

Yep the limits of modding means that it is just a very beneficial band aid which tries to make the best of the awful gaping wound that is the official trainwreck endings.