486 réponses à ce sujet

[JamesFaith]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, there should be few reason why people "hate" it.

1. Supporters of MEHEM are using it as weapon against people who like endings. When some people here constantly bashing thing you like and connecting it with "MEHEM is superior, MEHEM is only right ending, MEHEM is better then crap you like, MEHEM this and MEHEM that... It isn't surprising that people react on it hostily after some time.

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

I personally don't consider MEHEM good, but I don't hate it and appreciate work behind it. But I´m still annoyed by how some people here pushing MEHEM as superb solution of ME3 problems in too many discussions and attacking me with it.

The same could be said for Bioware fanboys who cant take criticism towards ME3.

Respect the fact that the people for MEHEM put so much of their own time and effort into it. You dont have to like it but hating to just hate it for the sake of Bioware is kinda childish.

I dont personally have it downloaded and harbor no extreme negative or positive feelings for ME3 so take it for what you will.........

Please, read better next time, itallic should help you.

[ruggly]

I would never claim for MEHEM to be perfect, far from it in fact. But it gives me the emotional fulfilment that others get from either pre or post EC. Different strokes and all that yazz.I don't mind what they tried to do with the ending, but for me it's a meh thing now.

[Reorte]

Bardox9 wrote...

I liked the ends as they were written in the extended version. To me MEHEM is just people telling writers who built one of the best RPGs out there that they don't know what they are doing. A story is not suppose to end exactly the way you thought it would. It's suppose to end the way the writers want it to end.

A line of thinking which boils down to "The writers can do no wrong." It makes far more sense to take things entirely on their own merits. Do you apply the same attitude to improved high-res texture mods?

If you want Shepard to live then make the right decisions. If you want EDI and the Geth to live then make the right decisions. Don't cry because the results of the decisions you made through out the trilogy sucked.

Except the decisions didn't suck, it was the badly thought out contrived consequences of them that did. Most if not all MEHEM supporters are quite happy for the idea of things messing up if your decisions do actually suck, and indeed the next version of MEHEM is taking that into account somewhat by having a low EMS version.

[KwangtungTiger]

JamesFaith wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, there should be few reason why people "hate" it.

1. Supporters of MEHEM are using it as weapon against people who like endings. When some people here constantly bashing thing you like and connecting it with "MEHEM is superior, MEHEM is only right ending, MEHEM is better then crap you like, MEHEM this and MEHEM that... It isn't surprising that people react on it hostily after some time.

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

I personally don't consider MEHEM good, but I don't hate it and appreciate work behind it. But I´m still annoyed by how some people here pushing MEHEM as superb solution of ME3 problems in too many discussions and attacking me with it.

The same could be said for Bioware fanboys who cant take criticism towards ME3.

Respect the fact that the people for MEHEM put so much of their own time and effort into it. You dont have to like it but hating to just hate it for the sake of Bioware is kinda childish.

I dont personally have it downloaded and harbor no extreme negative or positive feelings for ME3 so take it for what you will.........

Please, read better next time, itallic should help you.

Please read mine better..........

It wasn't an attack against you. Only adding to what you said.

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

He said more Disney, which it undoubtedly is if by Disney he meant happy.

It's pretty clear that "disney" is being used as a pejorative for "overly bright and happy"  And MEHEM is certainly not that.  THere's not a smiling face to be found in it.

Except that type of destruction happens in Independence Day, too, so it's still exactly like Independence Day.

Which is not a diss unless you want it to be. I love Independence Day, but it's no doubt a B-movie Hollywood ending; about par for course for the ME series. It's the mystical organic/synthetic Catalyst stuff at the end that feels out of place with Mass Effect.

I wasn't commenting on the Independance Day comparison so much as the "happilly ever after" bit.  The galaxy's going to be rebuilding for a good long time.  Which is no different from standard Destroy.  Only, you  know, with synthetics around.

[KaiserShep]

I don't hate it, but if I was playing the trilogy on the PC, I wouldn't install it, because I'm kind of a stickler about sticking to the actual story, and MEHEM itself just doesn't work for me because of the very obvious details that I remember that have been recycled to create it, so it breaks the immersion into the story more than the actual extended cut ending does.

[JamesFaith]

Reorte wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

Considering the resources available and what they have to work with I don't see double standards. MEHEM is far more constrained, purely by the practical limitations of trying to mod a game never intended for modding, and without the resources of BioWare. The ME3 endings on the other hand had a massively less constrained canvas to work with.

Your objection works only against critic of form (never did it personally) but not against ideas behind this mod. 

Splinter Cell 108 wrote...

I don't think this is the same, on one hand the original endings are not optional, you can't choose to get rid of them even if you don't like them, well at least if you don't have PC you can't. 

Origin of story doesn't excuse it from critic. It was released to public, so it should be raedy for public critic. 

[JamesFaith]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Please read mine better..........

It wasn't an attack against you. Only adding to what you said.

Sorry for being so harsh but in form you wrote it  - separate article and pronoun you instead better they - it looks like it was targeted on me. 

[Reorte]

JamesFaith wrote...

Reorte wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

Considering the resources available and what they have to work with I don't see double standards. MEHEM is far more constrained, purely by the practical limitations of trying to mod a game never intended for modding, and without the resources of BioWare. The ME3 endings on the other hand had a massively less constrained canvas to work with.

Your objection works only against critic of form (never did it personally) but not against ideas behind this mod.

It works with the ideas to a fair degree too because of the contstraints involved (e.g. it can't rewrite any of the earlier game). Those limits mean that it's probably not the ending any of its supporters would've written if they were part of the ME3 writing team, but had to make do with what they could. Or do you mean the more fundamental idea of changing it at all?

[CronoDragoon]

iakus wrote...
It's pretty clear that "disney" is being used as a pejorative for "overly bright and happy"  And MEHEM is certainly not that.  THere's not a smiling face to be found in it.

It's called the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. Whether it's overly bright or not, the point of the mod is to make ME3 have a happy ending. Semantics of "overly" or "more" Disney is a bit besides the point, don't you think? Or do you think that MEHEM failed its purpose?

[wright1978]

Reorte wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

Considering the resources available and what they have to work with I don't see double standards. MEHEM is far more constrained, purely by the practical limitations of trying to mod a game never intended for modding, and without the resources of BioWare. The ME3 endings on the other hand had a massively less constrained canvas to work with.

Yep given the constraints of modding what MEHEM does in terms of fixing the botched ending delivery is nothing short of miracolous imo.

[KwangtungTiger]

JamesFaith wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

Please read mine better..........

It wasn't an attack against you. Only adding to what you said.

Sorry for being so harsh but in form you wrote it  - separate article and pronoun you instead better they - it looks like it was targeted on me. 

No problem. After reading it again, I can see how that would be possible but wasn't my intention.

My point is this though,

If someone hates on a mod because of someone else's criticsim towards ME3. That's shallow and just plain childish.
Also goes pretty far in showing their character

[JamesFaith]

Reorte wrote...

It works with the ideas to a fair degree too because of the contstraints involved (e.g. it can't rewrite any of the earlier game). Those limits mean that it's probably not the ending any of its supporters would've written if they were part of the ME3 writing team, but had to make do with what they could. Or do you mean the more fundamental idea of changing it at all?

Just one example of such critical objections- surviving of EDI and Geth. 

This is purely MrFob idea, it isn't result of technical difficulties of modding. I should say that such change weaken MEHEM for me and make victory too cheap. This kind of critic isn't result of hate, it isn't insulting - yet people were attacked for it and called genocide lovers. 

[Iakus]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
It's pretty clear that "disney" is being used as a pejorative for "overly bright and happy"  And MEHEM is certainly not that.  THere's not a smiling face to be found in it.

It's called the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. Whether it's overly bright or not, the point of the mod is to make ME3 have a happy ending. Semantics of "overly" or "more" Disney is a bit besides the point, don't you think? Or do you think that MEHEM failed its purpose?

"Happy Ending" is, I believe a deliberate attempt at irony.  Yes, it's "happier" in that Shepard definitively lives (and is not left a faceless torso), EDI lives, and ending slides show the geth and Citadel residents surviving.  But Thane is still dead.  As is Legion, Anderson, etc.  It is still supposed to be a "bittersweet" ending.  But with a balance shifted a bit more towards "sweet"

Also, the next iteration will have a Low EMS version.  Judging by what I saw in the trailer that is most definitely NOT going to be a "happy" ending at all

And while I can't speak for MrFob, I personally believe MEHEM succeeded beyond anyone's wildest expectations.  It's like the exact opposite of the ME3 endings in that regard.

I should also point out that part of MEHEM's popularity isn't even the "happier" aspects so much as it cuts out the Catalyst's entire appearance

Modifié par iakus, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:19 .

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

iakus wrote...
It's pretty clear that "disney" is being used as a pejorative for "overly bright and happy"  And MEHEM is certainly not that.  THere's not a smiling face to be found in it.

It's called the Mass Effect Happy Ending Mod. Whether it's overly bright or not, the point of the mod is to make ME3 have a happy ending. Semantics of "overly" or "more" Disney is a bit besides the point, don't you think? Or do you think that MEHEM failed its purpose?

I though the argument was that "happy" in the name was ironic. Ninja'd.

"Happier" would be literally true there.

Modifié par AlanC9, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:16 .

[RiouHotaru]

@iakus:

It's interesting that you say it's popularity is because the Catalyst is left out.

Despite the fact Leviathan basically confirms the existence of a control factor, which /isn't/ the Citadel. Or does the MEHEM ignore Leviathan? Or do people who support the MEHEM ignore the existence of Leviathan?

[wright1978]

JamesFaith wrote...

Reorte wrote...

It works with the ideas to a fair degree too because of the contstraints involved (e.g. it can't rewrite any of the earlier game). Those limits mean that it's probably not the ending any of its supporters would've written if they were part of the ME3 writing team, but had to make do with what they could. Or do you mean the more fundamental idea of changing it at all?

Just one example of such critical objections- surviving of EDI and Geth. 

This is purely MrFob idea, it isn't result of technical difficulties of modding. I should say that such change weaken MEHEM for me and make victory too cheap. This kind of critic isn't result of hate, it isn't insulting - yet people were attacked for it and called genocide lovers. 

Of course EDI & Geth survive because there isn't a way for a mod to deliver effectively ending choices & consequences because the developers decided to use an awful plot device character 5 minutes from the end to introduce them rather than build them into the story at a fitting time.

[Iakus]

[quote]JamesFaith wrote...

Just one example of such critical objections- surviving of EDI and Geth. [/quote]

This is purely MrFob idea, it isn't result of technical difficulties of modding. I should say that such change weaken MEHEM for me and make victory too cheap. This kind of critic isn't result of hate, it isn't insulting - yet people were attacked for it and called genocide lovers. 
[/quote]

I have to wonder, why does this cheapen the victory?

Look at Menae, Thessia, Sanctuary, and other worlds.  Heck, look at London, which is only one city on Earth.  And the horrific causalies Hammer took just to get two people onto the Citadel alive.

Why is even more death needed for a worthwhile victory?

[Reorte]

JamesFaith wrote...

Reorte wrote...

It works with the ideas to a fair degree too because of the contstraints involved (e.g. it can't rewrite any of the earlier game). Those limits mean that it's probably not the ending any of its supporters would've written if they were part of the ME3 writing team, but had to make do with what they could. Or do you mean the more fundamental idea of changing it at all?

Just one example of such critical objections- surviving of EDI and Geth. 

This is purely MrFob idea, it isn't result of technical difficulties of modding. I should say that such change weaken MEHEM for me and make victory too cheap. This kind of critic isn't result of hate, it isn't insulting - yet people were attacked for it and called genocide lovers. 

The problem with EDI and the geth dying is that there's honestly no logical reason for it to happen. It happens to set a tone, and smacks far too much of "We want this atmosphere so we'll have it, no matter how much common sense we need to ignore to make it happen." It's not that they are dead that is the problem but that they are stupidly dead. I'd certainly say that MEHEM would be better if it could replace those losses with something more convincing, thus keeping the same atmosphere. I can just about stretch my credulity enough for EDI to be killed (although saying "all Reaper tech" is about the same level as saying "all Japanese tech", as if there's something really fundamentally unique about it) but the geth is just going too far for my suspension of disbelief to remain intact.

Let's say that it only kills Reapers nearby, so the Catalyst has to be dragged around to mop the rest of them up. In the time that takes we see colonies getting mulched, whole worlds being devastated. That would both make more sense and still have the same impression. It would also help to overcome the "Instant Win Button" issue. Maybe even kill one or two squadmates in the process, if suitable subtle flags could be find to pick them. Unfortuantely I suspect all of that is impossible to do in a mod (and even if it wasn't would still be a huge amount of work), but substituting nonsensical deaths doesn't cut it and are therefore best removed.

Modifié par Reorte, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:25 .

[CronoDragoon]

People who support MEHEM still support the idea of an entity controlling the Reapers, they simply believe there's no need to have a conversation with it.

I also don't believe that Happy was meant to be ironic. But obviously the "Happiness" factor isn't the only reason people like it; I didn't claim that was so.

[Reorte]

CronoDragoon wrote...

People who support MEHEM still support the idea of an entity controlling the Reapers, they simply believe there's no need to have a conversation with it.

I don't, I believe that it cheapens the Reapers as foreboding, chilling adverseries in their own right. There's just simply no practical way MEHEM could remove the references to it and give the Reapers the place they deserve instead. And in any case I think that Leviathan is a good DLC in spite of that.

[Iakus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

@iakus:

It's interesting that you say it's popularity is because the Catalyst is left out.

Despite the fact Leviathan basically confirms the existence of a control factor, which /isn't/ the Citadel. Or does the MEHEM ignore Leviathan? Or do people who support the MEHEM ignore the existence of Leviathan?

The only acknowledgement MEHEM has for Leviathan is a fix that had to be put in because having the DLC or not affects EC, which MEHEM has to account for.  They play no other role in MEHEM.

The palyer is free to speculate on how they fit into the story.  MEHEM neither acknowledges nor denies them.  Nor the Catalyst for that matter.  Shepard simply never encounters the Starchild.  One is free to "speculate" on anything.  The Leviathan's infomation is millions of years out of date, after all

Maybe the Intelligence was corrupted/destroyed cycles ago, and the Reapers simply blindly follow its last instructions

Maybe it's a networked intelligence residing in all the Reapers, like a geth consensus

Maybe it's still standing there by the Magic Space Elevator going "Hello?  WTF is going on down there?  You gonna come up here and pick a color or what?"

[Fixers0]

Never tried MEHEM out, but that's because I don't really bother with Mass Effect 3 in general anymore.

Modifié par Fixers0, 17 octobre 2013 - 06:31 .

[KwangtungTiger]

Reorte wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Reorte wrote...

It works with the ideas to a fair degree too because of the contstraints involved (e.g. it can't rewrite any of the earlier game). Those limits mean that it's probably not the ending any of its supporters would've written if they were part of the ME3 writing team, but had to make do with what they could. Or do you mean the more fundamental idea of changing it at all?

Just one example of such critical objections- surviving of EDI and Geth. 

This is purely MrFob idea, it isn't result of technical difficulties of modding. I should say that such change weaken MEHEM for me and make victory too cheap. This kind of critic isn't result of hate, it isn't insulting - yet people were attacked for it and called genocide lovers. 

The problem with EDI and the geth dying is that there's honestly no logical reason for it to happen. It happens to set a tone, and smacks far too much of "We want this atmosphere so we'll have it, no matter how much common sense we need to ignore to make it happen." It's not that they are dead that is the problem but that they are stupidly dead. I'd certainly say that MEHEM would be better if it could replace those losses with something more convincing, thus keeping the same atmosphere. I can just about stretch my credulity enough for EDI to be killed (although saying "all Reaper tech" is about the same level as saying "all Japanese tech", as if there's something really fundamentally unique about it) but the geth is just going too far for my suspension of disbelief to remain intact.

Let's say that it only kills Reapers nearby, so the Catalyst has to be dragged around to mop the rest of them up. In the time that takes we see colonies getting mulched, whole worlds being devastated. That would both make more sense and still have the same impression. Maybe even kill one or two squadmates in the process, if suitable subtle flags could be find to pick them. Unfortuantely I suspect all of that is impossible to do in a mod (and even if it wasn't would still be a huge amount of work), but substituting nonsensical deaths doesn't cut it and are therefore best removed.

I truly believe it came down to Bioware understanding that most people were going to choose Destroy and had to some how make that a harder choice. By adding the Geth and Edi to the destruction in their minds at least, it was an effective way to alter the gamers mind set.

The fact that Shepard lives in high EMS, they could have easily worked the Geth and Edi into it also. But given my first statement that is no way it was going to happen.

In the end (for me atleast) didn't matter because the Geth were already destroyed in my main playthrough.