486 réponses à ce sujet

[Sir DeLoria]

Well, if Shepard had gotten a better ending, destroy would be Mass Effect's happy ending for me. No genetic rape, no Catalyst 2.0.

Only one ally had to give its life for this victory.

[Iakus]

RiouHotaru wrote...

To use an argument Chrono used in my thread about the EC, understanding the Reapers is important on a meta-level.  Sure, in-universe, the only real interest you have is in how to destroy them.  Which makes sense.  But I feel for the player, understanding where they come from and why they exist adds a depth to the setting you can't get otherwise.

That and I was never, ever a fan of the whole "unknowable enemy" thing.  But to each their own!

Perhaps I might feel differently if their backstory was actully interesting, or somehow important to the trilogy, or at least the game.  But as it is, it's a price I am more than willing to "sacrifice" to achieve the ending I want 

[Splinter Cell 108]

iakus wrote...

Perhaps I might feel differently if their backstory was actully interesting, or somehow important to the trilogy, or at least the game.  But as it is, it's a price I am more than willing to "sacrifice" to achieve the ending I want 

I am of the same opinion. The problem they created in ME3 with the Reapers is that some AI controls them, I mean seriously, that diminishes them to nothing but goons, they're just doing what they are doing because an AI told them too. They don't have their own motivations, their own purposes or anything of the sort, they're just machines doing what they are told to do. How boring.

At least when they were an unknown, everyone wanted to know the why and the how. Best to keep them that way if there was no way to explain what they are doing, at least it gives meaning to things like the Crucible.  

[Chashan]

Not meaning to advertise, but...

KaiserShep wrote...

I don't hate it, but if I was playing the trilogy on the PC, I wouldn't install it, because I'm kind of a stickler about sticking to the actual story, and MEHEM itself just doesn't work for me because of the very obvious details that I remember that have been recycled to create it, so it breaks the immersion into the story more than the actual extended cut ending does.

This is actually going to be adressed in the next version of MEHEM, with a good portion if not all of that being replaced by custom-made scenes. What's been shown by Fob thus far of that looks mighty decent to boot.

Another thing...

jtav wrote...

I'll never install it because it makes an already linear game more linear. But there are lots of mods I don't install. What I hate is the fan culture around it. Bringing it up in discussions about the canonical endings. Treating it as if it were canon by demanding BW respect it in future games. I write fanwork. I've come up with what I think are clever ways for Shep to survive the Control and Synth endings. But when people want to talk about the endings I can shift back to referring to them as dead/might as well be. Some MEHEM advocate can't or won't treat it as a mod.

The most in the way of 'demand' of that kind you'll hear from me, and some others as I observed, for the next game would be to

a) go for a sequel that only references the barebones overlap between the finales - 'defeat' of the Reapers and their uncontinued existence in the universe*

or

reboot the series, keep the Reapers - and a potential threat of equal proportions - out of it.

Both pretty much a necessity due to the diverging, global consequences of the finale being all but impossible to implement into one single game, hence sparing the developers a good bit of headache. If that means one can treat whichever finish one favours as what happened, so MEHEM included, I see that as a bonus.

*Edit: I should clarify this: by that I do not mean that it is clearly stated that they are all 'destroyed', but rather that they are 'gone' - as in entirely withdrawn from galactic affairs. It's an idea with which some Control- and Synthesis-proponents were comfortable with anyhow, from what I read.

Modifié par Chashan, 18 octobre 2013 - 02:55 .

[Iakus]

Chashan wrote...

Not meaning to advertise, but...

KaiserShep wrote...

I don't hate it, but if I was playing the trilogy on the PC, I wouldn't install it, because I'm kind of a stickler about sticking to the actual story, and MEHEM itself just doesn't work for me because of the very obvious details that I remember that have been recycled to create it, so it breaks the immersion into the story more than the actual extended cut ending does.

This is actually going to be adressed in the next version of MEHEM, with a good portion if not all of that being replaced by custom-made scenes. What's been shown by Fob thus far of that looks mighty decent to boot.

To those who are curious:

MEHEM v.4 trailer

[David7204]

I have no problems with people addressing it for what it is. A mod designed to give a 'happy ending' and ignore everything else. If that's what players want, fine.

The problem is when people start claiming it is as good or desireable storytelling.

[NeroonWilliams]

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, there should be few reason why people "hate" it.

1. Supporters of MEHEM are using it as weapon against people who like endings. When some people here constantly bashing thing you like and connecting it with "MEHEM is superior, MEHEM is only right ending, MEHEM is better then crap you like, MEHEM this and MEHEM that... It isn't surprising that people react on it hostily after some time.

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

I personally don't consider MEHEM good, but I don't hate it and appreciate work behind it. But I´m still annoyed by how some people here pushing MEHEM as superb solution of ME3 problems in too many discussions and attacking me with it.

1000xTHIS.

I have seen FAR too much of these two attitudes displayed on BSN.  Any of my dislike for MEHEM is directly linked to the sanctimony of its most strident prosthelytisers.

[KwangtungTiger]

NeroonWilliams wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, there should be few reason why people "hate" it.

1. Supporters of MEHEM are using it as weapon against people who like endings. When some people here constantly bashing thing you like and connecting it with "MEHEM is superior, MEHEM is only right ending, MEHEM is better then crap you like, MEHEM this and MEHEM that... It isn't surprising that people react on it hostily after some time.

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

I personally don't consider MEHEM good, but I don't hate it and appreciate work behind it. But I´m still annoyed by how some people here pushing MEHEM as superb solution of ME3 problems in too many discussions and attacking me with it.

1000xTHIS.

I have seen FAR too much of these two attitudes displayed on BSN.  Any of my dislike for MEHEM is directly linked to the sanctimony of its most strident prosthelytisers.

Again........If the only reason you don't like the mod is because someone else has criticism towards ME3. Then thats pretty shallow and childish and says alot about your character..........

[SiniisteR]

I like the premise of the mod, but I get pulled out of it by its design. It looks too much like a mod and not enough like an actual part of the game for me to believe it. With that said, the mods memorial scene is fantastic, especially with a LI.

Maybe later on when it becomes more polished and more resources put into it so it looks like an actual part of the game, but until then it just breaks the immersion for me.

[Splinter Cell 108]

David7204 wrote...

The problem is when people start claiming it is as good or desireable storytelling. 

Why is this "a" problem? Correct me if I'm wrong but this is an opinion, if you don't like that people have this opinion then it is "your" problem not "a" problem.  

This is basically why MEHEM gets hate, people do not like that others claim that MEHEM is superior to the original endings. Anyone who downloads the mod is obviously going to think this, nobody can change that, if people can't handle this it is their problem. 

It is pointless to hate MEHEM, it doesn't matter what people say or do, the mod won't go away and no amount of whining. If this was the Nexus these people would have been banned long ago, if you don't like the mod that's fine but hating on it serves no purpose, nobody is forcing anyone to download anything. 

[David7204]

If people think the ending is bad enough that MEHEM is better, that's fine. I can understand that.

However, the problem is when people claim people that MEHEM is good. That MEHEM is a perfect ending or something close to it. That MEHEM is how ME 3 should have ended!

Now, of course, some people who support MEHEM will deny that left and right. They'll claim MEHEM is nothing but a mod for the endings, not designed to be 'perfect,' not designed to solve any of a problems.

But the evidence points otherwise.

What evidence? The evidence of what people claim is supposedly good. You look over posts of what people think would be a 'perfect ending' to ME 3, and they're overwhelmingly functionally identical to MEHEM. Shepard and everyone survives. The Reapers are ignored or handwaved because Shepard is just that awesome. Every problem is solve by the Crucible being some EMP or some other easy-peasy brainless solution that is of course narratively ridiculous.

Modifié par David7204, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:52 .

[Pressedcat]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

NeroonWilliams wrote...

JamesFaith wrote...

Well, there should be few reason why people "hate" it.

1. Supporters of MEHEM are using it as weapon against people who like endings. When some people here constantly bashing thing you like and connecting it with "MEHEM is superior, MEHEM is only right ending, MEHEM is better then crap you like, MEHEM this and MEHEM that... It isn't surprising that people react on it hostily after some time.

2. Double standards of some MEHEM supporters: harsh critic of ME3 endings = OK, harsh critic of MEHEM = hate.

I personally don't consider MEHEM good, but I don't hate it and appreciate work behind it. But I´m still annoyed by how some people here pushing MEHEM as superb solution of ME3 problems in too many discussions and attacking me with it.

1000xTHIS.

I have seen FAR too much of these two attitudes displayed on BSN.  Any of my dislike for MEHEM is directly linked to the sanctimony of its most strident prosthelytisers.

Again........If the only reason you don't like the mod is because someone else has criticism towards ME3. Then thats pretty shallow and childish and says alot about your character..........

^Try not to make personal attacks about people's character, it adds absolutely no weight to your argument.



I kind of agree with James and Neroon's points. Whilst I don't particularly like the MEHEM myself, I have absolutely no problem with its existence, nor the fact that others use it to enhance their own enjoyment of the game. More people enjoying ME3 can only ever be a good thing.

What can be a little irritating at times is when people throw strong emotional criticisms at the original/EC endings (ie to paraphrase: "I hate them, they're stupid, make no sense and are a sympton of poor writing") and then turn round and sing the praises of MEHEM. Of course, they are entirely free to strongly dislike BioWare's endings, to find MEHEM far superior and to express these opinions. However, I think this can lead to those who are ok with the EC turning the same critical eye on MEHEM and calling out its faults. In my experience, this is where the vast majority of the so called 'hate' for the MEHEM comes from.

Of course there will always be a few people who just enjoy slagging things off for the sake of getting a rise out of others, but usually it is fairly easy to detect the real source of their 'hate'.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 17 octobre 2013 - 10:56 .

[KwangtungTiger]

David7204 wrote...

If people think the ending is bad enough that MEHEM is better, that's fine. I can understand that.

However, the problem is when people claim people that MEHEM is good. That MEHEM is a perfect ending or something close to it. That MEHEM is how ME 3 should have ended!

Now, of course, some people who support MEHEM will deny that left and right. They'll claim MEHEM is nothing but a mod for the endings, not designed to be 'perfect,' not designed to solve any of a problems.

But the evidence points otherwise.

What evidence? The evidence of what people claim is supposedly good. You look over posts of what people think would be a 'perfect ending' to ME 3, and they're overwhelmingly functionally identical to MEHEM. Shepard and everyone survives. The Reapers are ignored or handwaved because Shepard is just that awesome. Every problem is solve by the Crucible being some EMP or some other easy-peasy brainless solution that is of course narratively ridiculous.

Yeah.........cause everyone who uses MEHEM thinks the same.

Do you even here yourself sometimes or just spew crap to spew it?

I dont even use MEHEM and harbor no negative or positive feelings for it just like the ME3 ending. A mod should be held in regard on its own merit. Not on the childish rantings of players who cant handle criticism being levied at ME3's endings.

[grey_wind]

David7204 wrote...

If people think the ending is bad enough that MEHEM is better, that's fine. I can understand that.

However, the problem is when people claim people that MEHEM is good. That MEHEM is a perfect ending or something close to it. That MEHEM is how ME 3 should have ended!

Now, of course, some people who support MEHEM will deny that left and right. They'll claim MEHEM is nothing but a mod for the endings, not designed to be 'perfect,' not designed to solve any of a problems.

But the evidence points otherwise.

What evidence? The evidence of what people claim is supposedly good. You look over posts of what people think would be a 'perfect ending' to ME 3, and they're overwhelmingly functionally identical to MEHEM. Shepard and everyone survives. The Reapers are ignored or handwaved because Shepard is just that awesome. Every problem is solve by the Crucible being some EMP or some other easy-peasy brainless solution that is of course narratively ridiculous.

It just needs more heroism! :innocent:

[David7204]

KwangtungTiger wrote...

I dont even use MEHEM and harbor no negative or positive feelings for it just like the ME3 ending. A mod should be held in regard on its own merit. Not on the childish rantings of players who cant handle criticism being levied at ME3's endings.

I have no idea where you're getting any of this nonsense from. Did I not literally just say I find it perfectly acceptable for players to like MEHEM on the basis of it being better than the current endings?

If it's being examined as an ending, MEHEM on it's own merit is a trainwreck. If it's being examined as a mod that meant to give players warm fuzzies and little more, it's perfectly acceptable and perhaps even great. I wouldn't know.

Modifié par David7204, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:04 .

[Reorte]

David7204 wrote...

If people think the ending is bad enough that MEHEM is better, that's fine. I can understand that.

However, the problem is when people claim people that MEHEM is good. That MEHEM is a perfect ending or something close to it. That MEHEM is how ME 3 should have ended!

Now, of course, some people who support MEHEM will deny that left and right. They'll claim MEHEM is nothing but a mod for the endings, not designed to be 'perfect,' not designed to solve any of a problems.

But the evidence points otherwise.

What evidence? The evidence of what people claim is supposedly good. You look over posts of what people think would be a 'perfect ending' to ME 3, and they're overwhelmingly functionally identical to MEHEM. Shepard and everyone survives. The Reapers are ignored or handwaved because Shepard is just that awesome. Every problem is solve by the Crucible being some EMP or some other easy-peasy brainless solution that is of course narratively ridiculous.

Please come back once you've actually understood the issues.

[GreatBlueHeron]

Hilarious how the main criticism of MEHEM is that it's a happy ending, but those criticizing seem to never mention how ridiculously happy synthesis is. Everyone gets along, holds hands, sings songs, and so on.

Not sure why anyone gets in a twist over harmless mods. Don't like it? Then don't install it. I have the same reaction to MEHEM as I do to mods that give characters new pants--whatevs.

[KwangtungTiger]

David7204 wrote...

KwangtungTiger wrote...

I dont even use MEHEM and harbor no negative or positive feelings for it just like the ME3 ending. A mod should be held in regard on its own merit. Not on the childish rantings of players who cant handle criticism being levied at ME3's endings.

I have no idea where you're getting any of this nonsense from. Did I not literally just say I find it perfectly acceptable for players to like MEHEM on the basis of it being better than the current endings?

If it's being examined as an ending, MEHEM on it's own merit is a trainwreck.

Then maybe I misunderstood what you said and I apologize if I did. Its pretty hard to understand your meaning sometimes........

Modifié par KwangtungTiger, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:05 .

[David7204]

The problem is the hypocrisy from countless players that ignore extremely serious problems in MEHEM that they would practically devote their lives to complaining about if they were in the actual game.

Modifié par David7204, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:06 .

[grey_wind]

David7204 wrote...

The problem is the hypocrisy from countless players that ignore extremely serious problems in MEHEM that they would practically devote their lives to complaining about if they were in the actual game.

You mean fans accept that a fan-made mod using severly limited assets, compared to a professionally developed product with a multimillion dollar budget, is imperfect?

SHOCKING!

[David7204]

Like I've said several times now. I have no issue at all with fans accepting and enjoying MEHEM for what it is. A mod meant to give a 'happy ending' and warm fuzzies while ignoring other issues an ending needs to address.

The problems begin when people stop claiming it as a warm and fuzzies mod and start claiming it as an actual ending.

Modifié par David7204, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:14 .

[Pressedcat]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, because David's arguing with almost everyone in a thread and I actually think he's right.

Have you tried adjusting your television set monitor?

Doh, that's Outer Limits, and I got the quote wrong. I suck at pop-culture.

Modifié par Pressedcat, 17 octobre 2013 - 11:23 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

It's limited with what it can do obviously, but I support what it stands for and what it tries to accomplish.