486 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RatThing wrote...
I don't hate MEHEM, modders can do what they like. It's the idea that people want a cheesy Hollywood ending for the game that bothers me. It's not relevant for this game but for future Mass Effect games probably.

I get the impression my most people who like MEHEM and talk about it a lot that there are indeed many people who want a cheesy Hollywond ending, and I'd take any bet that this impression is entirely correct.

IMO it doesn't bode well for future stories if Bioware takes that impression away from the discussion, and that's the reason why I am critical of MEHEM. Otherwise, I don't have any strong feelings about it. It's a mod I don't use.

Well... if people didn't want endings like that, why would Hollywood keep making them?

And I think it has a lot to do with peoples' investment into their characters. Sure, there may have been superior ending concepts with more thought behind them than MEHEM, but none of them translated well into reality to those who find all three ending options abhorrent. Which I can't entirely blame them for (as long as they don't choose Destroy), as two of them weren't well set up at all.

[Hazegurl]

I love MEHEM. Too bad I couldn't install it in the PS3 but the moment I saw it, I knew it was my ending. Mind you, I have no issue with destroy other than my Shepard suddenly turning into a moron who walks into the explosion which in itself if a Hollywood type ending. "Let's give the hero an unnecessary death scene, yeah people will sooooo cry over this cause it's deep! But he'll breathe in rubble at the end credits giving them hope and something to talk about"

Synthesizing was also majorly Hollywood. Let's all create a utopia that totally fixes all our problems.

The only ending that isn't Hollywood is the control ending. I only used it once and thought it was great, incredibly dark, even more so with a renegade Shepard (mine was). I can see it as him succumbing to ultimate power in the end.

Anyway, I didn't like the fact that my Shepard fought to free humanity, united the Geth and Quarian etc, only to be left mostly speechless by this reaper King who seems to have never evolved past his initial programming by the Leviathans. The MEHEM does what I feel Destroy should have done. Kill the reapers. I would have had no problem with a MEHEM with Shepard dead but if bioware is going to make Shepard stupid just to get a death scene or suddenly make his crew care more about saving their own rear end than his then yeah I'm glad he is saved and lives.

Actually I found getting to the three canon endings in the game very contrived anyway. Who in their right minds will trust a bunch of soldiers and a non engineer Shepard to operate the freaking super weapon to begin with? Dude can't even operate a freaking reactor on Omega.

Modifié par Hazegurl, 18 octobre 2013 - 11:50 .

[MrFob]

Oh boy, this thread is ... shall we say ... interesting.

Ieldra2 wrote...
I get the impression my most people who like MEHEM and talk about it a lot that there are indeed many people who want a cheesy Hollywond ending, and I'd take any bet that this impression is entirely correct.

IMO it doesn't bode well for future stories if Bioware takes that impression away from the discussion, and that's the reason why I am critical of MEHEM. Otherwise, I don't have any strong feelings about it. It's a mod I don't use.

My impression is that people have all sorts of reasons for using MEHEM. Some do it exactly for the reason you say, some do it mainly to get rid of the star kid and the planet crash scene. Others use it only for some Shepards and not for others. By the way, I only used it once outside of testing and I thought it didn't really fit the story of the Shepard I was playing at the time.
I just want to say that I understand your point of view and - in fact - share it to some extent. I didn't create MEHEM in order to create a new story ending (I did that with MEEM). When I started the project, I just wanted to see if I could change the memorial scene. It was mainly a challenge on a purely technical level. Since MEEM's download numbers were at around 300 at the time, I had no idea what kind of a response it would get.
Whatever people will think of it or say about it, for me it's just another option that people have now to finish the game. A fan fiction, designed around simplicity that made a lot of story compromises to fit into the game as well as possible.
So why do I stick with it, you may ask? Well, I just enjoy making this kind of stuff. It's like a puzzle game in itself for me, making it all fit together. And if I see that people can enjoy it, than all the better.

By the way, if BioWare would want to learn all the wrong lessons from the ending backlash, as you suggest, they certainly didn't need to wait almost one year for MEHEM to do that, there was plenty of other material before it came along. Let's just hope they'll learn some good lessons from it though.

Modifié par MrFob, 18 octobre 2013 - 11:52 .

[Dieb]

No offense Mr.Fob, but I think MEHEM is just the execution of the idea that people would have liked a happy ending - when it comes to what BioWare can "learn from it." And mind you, there's nothing wrong with that. Not with wanting an happy ending, nor with -I can't believe I have to say that- creating or installing a mod.

Personally it's just that as soon as I start using mods, which I did with Fallout/ES, I feel the game kind of slips out of my hands. As in, I cannot immerse myself anymore, because I always think: "This is part of the main game, this isn't, this is new, this isn't" if that makes any sense. It's like all additional content has a label on it, in bright neon colors.

[wright1978]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RatThing wrote...
I don't hate MEHEM, modders can do what they like. It's the idea that people want a cheesy Hollywood ending for the game that bothers me. It's not relevant for this game but for future Mass Effect games probably.

I get the impression my most people who like MEHEM and talk about it a lot that there are indeed many people who want a cheesy Hollywond ending, and I'd take any bet that this impression is entirely correct.

IMO it doesn't bode well for future stories if Bioware takes that impression away from the discussion, and that's the reason why I am critical of MEHEM. Otherwise, I don't have any strong feelings about it. It's a mod I don't use.

I would certainly argue that MEHEM is no more cheesy than the official endings. it is like a simple dive for which the reward for completion is less than would be available at a greater degree of complexity. However it still beats a cheesy stupid trainwreck of a bellyflop from the top board.

I'd be more worried that they'd take away slapping a few slides is the way forward rather than building the delivery of future endings into the story whether they be limited simpel solutions or complex ones.

[Chashan]

Baelrahn wrote...

No offense Mr.Fob, but I think MEHEM is just the execution of the idea that people would have liked a happy ending - when it comes to what BioWare can "learn from it." And mind you, there's nothing wrong with that. Not with wanting an happy ending, nor with -I can't believe I have to say that- creating or installing a mod.

Personally it's just that as soon as I start using mods, which I did with Fallout/ES, I feel the game kind of slips out of my hands. As in, I cannot immerse myself anymore, because I always think: "This is part of the main game, this isn't, this is new, this isn't" if that makes any sense. It's like all additional content has a label on it, in bright neon colors.

Bit of an odd line of thought, given that the two examples of series you give actually allow for more control on a user's end on how the game looks and feels like through the variety of mods available, where it is up to every individual player's criteria which mods they use. A number of people explicitly are on the look-out for 'lore-friendly' flavour mods, others get mods for gits and shiggles. Nothing wrong with either approach.
Sometimes requires some manual adjustments to make certain mods work, but having done that and seeing it all work out as one plays is gratification enough for me, at least.

wright1978 wrote...

I'd be more worried that they'd take away slapping a few slides is the way forward rather than building the delivery of future endings into the story whether they be limited simpel solutions or complex ones.

I'd hope that BW took that to heart, too, as that was one of the most jarring issues of ME3's finale. For examples on how to do better the next ME-team would only have to look to in-house games by BW themselves.

[CronoDragoon]

Giantdeathrobot wrote...
As it is, there's simply no friggin logic to how the Crucible works.

The biggest head-scratcher is that they had not one but two opportunities to implement a much easier explanation that does exactly the same thing: the Crucible targets Reaper code to destroy. There. Geth and EDI are still targeted, and you still have Shepard potentially dying from the explosion and Citadel wreckage.

[dreamgazer]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well... if people didn't want endings like that, why would Hollywood keep making them?

Because it's easy to please the lowest common denominator with nonsensical empowerment and convenient closure in an ending, so long as they get their rocks off and have the feels. I mean, just look at the popularity of The Avengers, then take a critical eye to its writing throughout the end (and the entire movie's plot, really). But people don't care, because it feeds their base desires in fiction, and the Hollywood machine is well aware of this.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 18 octobre 2013 - 02:20 .

[Kel Riever]

Again, this is just sort of a silly argument to me.

First, if people like happy endings, they are not 'LESSER' people. It doesn't make you smarter, or have better taste, or give you any even slightest bit of being better if you don't like happy endings and someone else does.

That could be an /thread right there.

But there could be a bit more said, just to rub it in. You are not better, obviously, if you like happy endings either.

What there ARE, however, are general standards of quality, determined by people themselves. A lot of it is subjective and there's nothing that says you can't like what someone else doesn't. Despite all that, certain things improve the quality of work from the point of making something moving, or impactful or what have you. Those qualities, shown throughout enough history now, have NOTHING to do with whether an ending is happy or not.

They DO have to do with everything that is wrong with the ending(s) of Mass Effect...making no sense within the very same story that is told and offering no choice of merit in a video game that professes to be about making choices.

Nonsense doesn't fly if your ending is happy or not.  This isn't directed at anyone in particular other than people who pre-determined that the video game would be better because people died/there were tears/someone lived, etc.   Mass Effect 3 is just plain bad after the Glowjob shows up.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 18 octobre 2013 - 02:31 .

[rekn2]

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well... if people didn't want endings like that, why would Hollywood keep making them?

Because it's easy to please the lowest common denominator with nonsensical empowerment and convenient closure in an ending, so long as they get their rocks off and have the feels. I mean, just look at the popularity of The Avengers, then take a critical eye to its writing throughout the end (and the entire movie's plot, really). But people don't care, because it feeds their base desires in fiction, and the Hollywood machine is well aware of this.

so what youre saying is those who dont think like you are dummies, what a joke.


not everything is meant to be taken with some scientific meta bs.

[rekn2]

Kel Riever wrote...

Again, this is just sort of a silly argument to me.

First, if people like happy endings, they are not 'LESSER' people. It doesn't make you smarter, or have better taste, or give you any even slightest bit of being better if you don't like happy endings and someone else does.

That could be an /thread right there.

But there could be a bit more said, just to rub it in. You are not better, obviously, if you like happy endings either.

What there ARE, however, are general standards of quality, determined by people themselves. A lot of it is subjective and there's nothing that says you can't like what someone else doesn't. Despite all that, certain things improve the quality of work from the point of making something moving, or impactful or what have you. Those qualities, shown throughout enough history now, have NOTHING to do with whether an ending is happy or not.

They DO have to do with everything that is wrong with the ending(s) of Mass Effect...making no sense within the very same story that is told and offering no choice of merit in a video game that professes to be about making choices.

Nonsense doesn't fly if your ending is happy or not.  This isn't directed at anyone in particular other than people who pre-determined that the video game would be better because people died/there were tears/someone lived, etc.   Mass Effect 3 is just plain bad after the Glowjob shows up.

exactly

[rekn2]

wright1978 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

RatThing wrote...
I don't hate MEHEM, modders can do what they like. It's the idea that people want a cheesy Hollywood ending for the game that bothers me. It's not relevant for this game but for future Mass Effect games probably.

I get the impression my most people who like MEHEM and talk about it a lot that there are indeed many people who want a cheesy Hollywond ending, and I'd take any bet that this impression is entirely correct.

IMO it doesn't bode well for future stories if Bioware takes that impression away from the discussion, and that's the reason why I am critical of MEHEM. Otherwise, I don't have any strong feelings about it. It's a mod I don't use.

I would certainly argue that MEHEM is no more cheesy than the official endings. it is like a simple dive for which the reward for completion is less than would be available at a greater degree of complexity. However it still beats a cheesy stupid trainwreck of a bellyflop from the top board.

I'd be more worried that they'd take away slapping a few slides is the way forward rather than building the delivery of future endings into the story whether they be limited simpel solutions or complex ones.

cheesy is different than just plain bad but i agree that cheese doesnt fit into the trilogy either

[dreamgazer]

rekn2 wrote...

so what youre saying is those who dont think like you are dummies, what a joke.

Yes, that's totally what I said. (rolls eyes)

Should I even attempt to explain otherwise for you? Or will you just call me an ass and question my understanding of media?

not everything is meant to be taken with some scientific meta bs.

No, but it'd be nice if they were sensibly handled, no matter whether they are happy or sad. There's a hilarious double standard at work here.

Keep on strawmanning there though, tough guy.

Modifié par dreamgazer, 18 octobre 2013 - 03:03 .

[Iakus]

Ieldra2 wrote...

RatThing wrote...
I don't hate MEHEM, modders can do what they like. It's the idea that people want a cheesy Hollywood ending for the game that bothers me. It's not relevant for this game but for future Mass Effect games probably.

I get the impression my most people who like MEHEM and talk about it a lot that there are indeed many people who want a cheesy Hollywond ending, and I'd take any bet that this impression is entirely correct.

IMO it doesn't bode well for future stories if Bioware takes that impression away from the discussion, and that's the reason why I am critical of MEHEM. Otherwise, I don't have any strong feelings about it. It's a mod I don't use.

The popularity of MEHEM is not that it's a cheesy Hollywood ending (though I don't doubt there are people who like it because of that) I'm sure people would have rolled their eyes at the ending if it had been part of the original game.  However, the original endings are so bad a cheesy Hollywood ending looks brilliant in comparison.  Bioware should look at this and aspire to be better than cheesy Hollywood.  It's sad that this is where the bar is at right now  

Is it really wrong of people to think that after failthfully importing a Shepard across three games, that at least some of those Shepards deserved more than we got?

Modding is very limited in twhat it can do.  And yes, MEHEM may be a bit overly bright.  But with the tools available, I think it's a phenemonenal improvement.  I for one am glad I have an ending that rises to the level of cheesy Hollywood.  Given the alternatives, I'm more than willing to settle 

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

rekn2 wrote...

so what youre saying is those who dont think like you are dummies, what a joke.

Yes, that's totally what I said. (rolls eyes)

Should I even attempt to explain otherwise for you? Or will you just call me an ass and question my understanding of media?

Yes, happy endings are easy, and lot sof people like them.

Doesn't give you leave to be so condescending in your responses.  Please reread your previous post and ask yourself if that's really the best way you could have responsed to Xilizhra's question.

[crimzontearz]

De gustibus non disputandum est

Also, if bioware put the MEHEM up for sale with a price tag of 20$ I would DEFINITELY buy it

Modifié par crimzontearz, 18 octobre 2013 - 04:57 .

[Reorte]

dreamgazer wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

Well... if people didn't want endings like that, why would Hollywood keep making them?

Because it's easy to please the lowest common denominator with nonsensical empowerment and convenient closure in an ending, so long as they get their rocks off and have the feels. I mean, just look at the popularity of The Avengers, then take a critical eye to its writing throughout the end (and the entire movie's plot, really). But people don't care, because it feeds their base desires in fiction, and the Hollywood machine is well aware of this.

But using that argument to attack MEHEM is neither fair nor particularly accurate; not that many people claim that MEHEM is the ideal (as in best for the story) outcome, just the best doable within the limitations of modding. It's true that people will more readily accept bad writing if the final result leaves them pleased, but most (and I reckon that this fits Mass Effect's player base more than the population at large) would be even more satisfied if it was all tight, well-written story. Is nonsensical empowment worse than nonsensical pissing on you?

The factors in the official endings that make it less cheesy Hollywood were handled so badly that they simply don't work, so removing them is an improvement in the eyes of many.

[Chashan]

crimzontearz wrote...
De gustibus non disputandum est

Fixed - yeah, I am picky like that. 

Still holds true. There is no disputing tastes.

Reorte wrote...

[...]It's true that people will more readily accept bad writing if the final result leaves them pleased, but most (and I reckon that this fits Mass Effect's player base more than the population at large) would be even more satisfied if it was all tight, well-written story. Is nonsensical empowment worse than nonsensical pissing on you?

I remember Mr Muzyka's statement about the original ending leaving him with a sense of 'triumph'. I do not think it is a solitary voice who did not feel much, if any, of that - I know I did not.

All things told, what was mentioned here:

Hazegurl wrote...

Synthesizing was also majorly Hollywood. Let's all create a utopia that totally fixes all our problems. 

The only ending that isn't Hollywood is the control ending. I only used it once and thought it was great, incredibly dark, even more so with a renegade Shepard (mine was). I can see it as him succumbing to ultimate power in the end.

Anyway, I didn't like the fact that my Shepard fought to free humanity, united the Geth and Quarian etc, only to be left mostly speechless by this reaper King who seems to have never evolved past his initial programming by the Leviathans. The MEHEM does what I feel Destroy should have done. Kill the reapers. I would have had no problem with a MEHEM with Shepard dead but if bioware is going to make Shepard stupid just to get a death scene or suddenly make his crew care more about saving their own rear end than his then yeah I'm glad he is saved and lives. 

pretty much sums up the ways one can very much take this happy-be-good direction in interpreting the finale anyway - especially following the EC-iteration of them. Even though I agree with the assessment that it's a tough one with Blue, the way its epilogue is told.

Modifié par Chashan, 18 octobre 2013 - 03:43 .

[dreamgazer]

iakus wrote...

Doesn't give you leave to be so condescending in your responses.  Please reread your previous post and ask yourself if that's really the best way you could have responsed to Xilizhra's question.

Come now, iakus.  I'm sure you, of all people, know that statement was low on the condescension meter for this board.  In a collective of specific critics griping about "grimdark" and "faux-intellectalism" whenever someone mentioned even a shred of like for the ending (as well as a comment  from my buddy rekn2 up there about "understanding media"), that's small potatoes. 

The question was why Hollywood continues to dish them out for the people who eat them up, and it's because of the general audience's tolerance level for nonsense in happy situations than downer situations.  Downer endings, no matter the level of quality, are frequently referred to as "bad endings", as opposed to drivel in modern blockbusters given a pass because of the emotion it creates. It's repulsive to see this exascerbate in modern fiction, and likewise to be championed on this board (a few of ME's fans have suggested ending alternatives that emulate summer blockbusters with even bigger logic problems).  

If people took the same critical approach to endings like that of The Avengers that they have of Mass Effect 3's, they'd be disappointed.  But they don't, because  ... "F*CK YEAH!"

(shrugs)

And you'll notice I haven't mentioned MEHEM, really, since I was merely responding to Xil's comment about "Hollywood endings". Whether you choose to apply it to MEHEM is on you. 

Modifié par dreamgazer, 18 octobre 2013 - 03:53 .

[Splinter Cell 108]

 I still don't get why some people have to argue about others liking MEHEM, I don't get it, its a mod for crying out loud, why complain about something that is optional and why complain if some others think it is better than the real endings. Why does everyone also assume that people using MEHEM are looking for a happy ending. 

I use it and it has nothing to do with a happy ending, I would've been fine with whatever ending they'd have made, provided that ****** had made sense. I don't use MEHEM because of a waifu or husbando nonsense, I don't care about romances, and I really don't get the obsession that exists with regards to romances, I've stated this multiple times in romance threads. I wil use MEHEM because it is the only thing that makes sense or at least makes more sense than the original endings, unfortunately the limitations of modding in ME3 do not allow for anything other than what has been created, there's no way to make an ending that is like what BioWare made, the resources are simply not there. 

[Reorte]

dreamgazer wrote...

The question was why Hollywood continues to dish them out for the people who eat them up, and it's because of the general audience's tolerance level for nonsense in happy situations than downer situations.  Downer endings, no matter the level of quality, are frequently referred to as "bad endings", as opposed to drivel in modern blockbusters given a pass because of the emotion it creates. It's repulsive to see this exascerbate in modern fiction, and likewise to be championed on this board (a few of ME's fans have suggested ending alternatives that emulate summer blockbusters with even bigger logic problems). 

People's first reactions and impressions are usual emotional, so it's hardly a surprise that the tolerance is greater.  Without getting the emotional response though people are going to look at the intellectual one, so it really has to stand up to scrutiny to work. It works the other way too. If something is cheerful drivel then (as long as it's not so much drivel you walk out before the end) there are plenty of people who won't be anywhere near as satisfied as they would be if it had real quality behind it too. People do want both, and I think that most would rather that Hollywood didn't keep trotting out light-weight fizz that feels nice at the time but ultimately leaves you wishing you'd spent that time on something else.

I find it repulsive to deliberately drag things down for no reason other than a dislike of things looking too happy, and certain areas of BSN seem to champion that attitude. They want downers for the sake of downers. I don't understand that at all - I like things that make me cheerful. Sometimes downers are needed simply to avoid everything becoming too predictable, and the beauty of a game is that it can encompass both in the same story, which isn't possible in any other medium, but there's nothing at all wrong with wanting happiness - otherwise you could complain about people being shallow because they prefer to get a kiss than a kick.

It's an interesting area of thought to be honest, how to strike all the right balances, how to give enough variety, and how to serve up those parts that make people unhappy and that they don't like but are arguably necessary to give a suitably broad view and be able to appreciate everything properly.

The expression "Bad ending" can refer to it from the point of view of how it works for the characters and doesn't necessarily apply to the writing.

Modifié par Reorte, 18 octobre 2013 - 04:14 .

[crimzontearz]

Chashan wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...
De gustibus non disputandum est

Fixed - yeah, I am picky like that. 

Still holds true. There is no disputing tastes.

Reorte wrote...

[...]It's true that people will more readily accept bad writing if the final result leaves them pleased, but most (and I reckon that this fits Mass Effect's player base more than the population at large) would be even more satisfied if it was all tight, well-written story. Is nonsensical empowment worse than nonsensical pissing on you?

I remember Mr Muzyka's statement about the original ending leaving him with a sense of 'triumph'. I do not think it is a solitary voice who did not feel much, if any, of that - I know I did not.

All things told, what was mentioned here:

Hazegurl wrote...

Synthesizing was also majorly Hollywood. Let's all create a utopia that totally fixes all our problems. 

The only ending that isn't Hollywood is the control ending. I only used it once and thought it was great, incredibly dark, even more so with a renegade Shepard (mine was). I can see it as him succumbing to ultimate power in the end.

Anyway, I didn't like the fact that my Shepard fought to free humanity, united the Geth and Quarian etc, only to be left mostly speechless by this reaper King who seems to have never evolved past his initial programming by the Leviathans. The MEHEM does what I feel Destroy should have done. Kill the reapers. I would have had no problem with a MEHEM with Shepard dead but if bioware is going to make Shepard stupid just to get a death scene or suddenly make his crew care more about saving their own rear end than his then yeah I'm glad he is saved and lives. 

pretty much sums up the ways one can very much take this happy-be-good direction in interpreting the finale anyway - especially following the EC-iteration of them. Even though I agree with the assessment that it's a tough one with Blue, the way its epilogue is told.

I know how to spell gustibus, but I am typing on a phone...


 
Also, you picked a rather literal translation of passive perifrastic construction

Modifié par crimzontearz, 18 octobre 2013 - 05:01 .

[Reorte]

Chashan wrote...

pretty much sums up the ways one can very much take this happy-be-good direction in interpreting the finale anyway - especially following the EC-iteration of them. Even though I agree with the assessment that it's a tough one with Blue, the way its epilogue is told.

Although I find the very idea of a Shepalyst silly, given that the EC Control epilogues were done well and captured the tone of them perfectly (Renegade version is scary, Paragon creepy).

[Iakus]

dreamgazer wrote...

Come now, iakus.  I'm sure you, of all people, know that statement was low on the condescension meter for this board.  In a collective of specific critics griping about "grimdark" and "faux-intellectalism" whenever someone mentioned even a shred of like for the ending (as well as a comment  from my buddy rekn2 up there about "understanding media"), that's small potatoes. 

The question was why Hollywood continues to dish them out for the people who eat them up, and it's because of the general audience's tolerance level for nonsense in happy situations than downer situations.  Downer endings, no matter the level of quality, are frequently referred to as "bad endings", as opposed to drivel in modern blockbusters given a pass because of the emotion it creates. It's repulsive to see this exascerbate in modern fiction, and likewise to be championed on this board (a few of ME's fans have suggested ending alternatives that emulate summer blockbusters with even bigger logic problems).  

If people took the same critical approach to endings like that of The Avengers that they have of Mass Effect 3's, they'd be disappointed.  But they don't, because  ... "F*CK YEAH!"

All things being equal, happy endings sell better than tragic endings.  In other news, the sky is blue and water is wet.  That still doesn't give you leave to imply (strongly) that those who do like happy endings are somehow mentally inferior for having that preference.


I fail to see how this preference is any better or worse than ascribing some inherent virtue to tragic outcomes "It's deep because it's DARK"  It's human nature that people want to see the hero come throug hin the end.  Especially after a long, arduous journey.  Yes, there's a place for Achilles.  But for me, I prefer Odysseus.

(shrugs)

And you'll notice I haven't mentioned MEHEM, really, since I was merely responding to Xil's comment about "Hollywood endings". Whether you choose to apply it to MEHEM is on you. 

Actually, it's on you. This is a thread about MEHEM.  And why people hate it for some reason.  You start spouting off about Hollywood endings and "lowest common denominators", can you blame people for making that inference?

[Iakus]

Reorte wrote...

But using that argument to attack MEHEM is neither fair nor particularly accurate; not that many people claim that MEHEM is the ideal (as in best for the story) outcome, just the best doable within the limitations of modding. It's true that people will more readily accept bad writing if the final result leaves them pleased, but most (and I reckon that this fits Mass Effect's player base more than the population at large) would be even more satisfied if it was all tight, well-written story. Is nonsensical empowment worse than nonsensical pissing on you?

The factors in the official endings that make it less cheesy Hollywood were handled so badly that they simply don't work, so removing them is an improvement in the eyes of many.

All of this.  Well said!

Especially the bolded part.