142 réponses à ce sujet

[Scorpion1O1]

Thinking about Mass Effect 3's ending and the future game just gets me depressed not excited.

[Brovikk Rasputin]

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

[Dubozz]

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Modifié par Dubozz, 27 octobre 2013 - 01:40 .

[dreamgazer]

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

[sveners]

dreamgazer wrote...

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

TB is insufferable? Why?

Personally I think he usually raises good points, but talks about them for way way too long.

[Dubozz]

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

Our drones are under attack! The Hive cluster is under attack! 

Modifié par Dubozz, 27 octobre 2013 - 03:20 .

[Kunari801]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't really know what to think about the next game having absolutely nothing to do with the past three. It sounds absolutely absurd, honestly, but I can't say it's definitely a bad idea. More information required.

Yeah, pretty much that.  Mass Effect is a big universe, but it's still hard to imagine a Mass Effect game without Sheaprd and crew. 

[dreamgazer]

sveners wrote...

TB is insufferable? Why?

Personally I think he usually raises good points, but talks about them for way way too long.

So do many other "public figures" who repeat critical positions easily found elsewhere, especially on the web.

Their content (and I agree with TB on several things) is only part of what weakens the appeal and makes them intolerable. 

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

Our drones are under attack! The Hive cluster is under attack! 

That the best you can do, spanky?  That is really, really cute!

[Obadiah]

Really like that Baldur's Gate remix theme at the end of it. Heh, there's even an MP3 download available! This is definitely going on to my MP3 player.

Modifié par Obadiah, 27 octobre 2013 - 05:50 .

[Dubozz]

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

Our drones are under attack! The Hive cluster is under attack! 

That the best you can do, spanky?  That is really, really cute!

0/10

[dreamgazer]

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

Our drones are under attack! The Hive cluster is under attack! 

That the best you can do, spanky?  That is really, really cute!

0/10

Totally agree.  That post about drones was definitely a 0/10. 

[3DandBeyond]

Reorte wrote...

iakus wrote...

 "the Shepard Incident"?



"I want to be able to start Mass Effect, and forget that Mass Effect 3 ever existed and just get back into that universe"

You and me both, Mr Biscuit.  You and me both.

Can we extract Tuchanka, and maybe Rannoch (with a little rework)? Whatever else I might think of Mass Effect 3 I think that Tuchanka is the high point of the trilogy.

  It absolutely has the best most consistent story arc of all of them.  With Rannoch and the Geth/Quarian thing and how the Geth tend to be bounced back and forth to be reaper helpers, it's kind of a mess-a great story if parts of it are kind of ignored.  Not that they don't make sense but superficially they just come off as wrong.  Tuchanka though tends to make a lot of sense and shows off great characters all throughout.

[Morty Smith]

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

dreamgazer wrote...

Dubozz wrote...

Brovikk Rasputin wrote...

This guy in unbearable to listen to.

Don't worry! it's only unbearable for ****s!

upd. Ahaha "Bio*rone" is a word for autocorrection! good job Bioware, good job!

Actually, he's pretty darn insufferable for even-minded people, too.

But nice try, kiddo.

Our drones are under attack! The Hive cluster is under attack! 

That the best you can do, spanky?  That is really, really cute!

0/10

Totally agree.  That post about drones was definitely a 0/10. 

The two of you duel like cows.

[KR96]

I sure as hell ain't gonna be messing with these cows..

[3DandBeyond]

Killdren88 wrote...

I somewhat feel better knowing one of my favorite you tubers shares my opinions on the ending but I agree enjoy the universe and try to forget it ever happened.

 

Yep, and then hope somebody with a working synapse understands that when you give people a game with choice and differing dialogue, and have them play as the main character, said by everyone to be this amazing person, well known whether for good or not so good, based on how the player played the game, you are giving them some ownership.  That means, ahem Mac Walters, people also form an emotional attachment to the characters (as a writer this is one of the fundamental things you want to do), and when allowed to form the values, morals, loves, hates, desires, even conscience, the player will want that stuff to make a difference.

[Iakus]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

I somewhat feel better knowing one of my favorite you tubers shares my opinions on the ending but I agree enjoy the universe and try to forget it ever happened.

 

Yep, and then hope somebody with a working synapse understands that when you give people a game with choice and differing dialogue, and have them play as the main character, said by everyone to be this amazing person, well known whether for good or not so good, based on how the player played the game, you are giving them some ownership.  That means, ahem Mac Walters, people also form an emotional attachment to the characters (as a writer this is one of the fundamental things you want to do), and when allowed to form the values, morals, loves, hates, desires, even conscience, the player will want that stuff to make a difference.

Yeah, but because it just happens to be right fro some people's Shepards, it's appropriate for everyone's Shepards, regardless of how they played them and what choices were made.

Someone said something to that effect recently 

[Oni Changas]

3DandBeyond wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

I somewhat feel better knowing one of my favorite you tubers shares my opinions on the ending but I agree enjoy the universe and try to forget it ever happened.

 

Yep, and then hope somebody with a working synapse understands that when you give people a game with choice and differing dialogue, and have them play as the main character, said by everyone to be this amazing person, well known whether for good or not so good, based on how the player played the game, you are giving them some ownership.  That means, ahem Mac Walters, people also form an emotional attachment to the characters (as a writer this is one of the fundamental things you want to do), and when allowed to form the values, morals, loves, hates, desires, even conscience, the player will want that stuff to make a difference.

I see your post and raise you...

http://social.biowar...4376/1#11184376

[3DandBeyond]

OniTYME wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

I somewhat feel better knowing one of my favorite you tubers shares my opinions on the ending but I agree enjoy the universe and try to forget it ever happened.

 

Yep, and then hope somebody with a working synapse understands that when you give people a game with choice and differing dialogue, and have them play as the main character, said by everyone to be this amazing person, well known whether for good or not so good, based on how the player played the game, you are giving them some ownership.  That means, ahem Mac Walters, people also form an emotional attachment to the characters (as a writer this is one of the fundamental things you want to do), and when allowed to form the values, morals, loves, hates, desires, even conscience, the player will want that stuff to make a difference.

I see your post and raise you...

http://social.biowar...4376/1#11184376

Priceless.  I started reading two books on writing-one by Ben Bova on Sci Fi writing and one just a general book on fiction writing.  Both within a few short pages actually outlined what not to do when writing a story-most of what happened within the writing of ME3.  One big thing that's found if someone submits a book to the big publishing houses is they don't want Deus ex Machina endings (best way to get a story rejected) and they don't like McGuffins that are rather illogical.  But those aren't the biggest problems even in ME3.  It's the character treatment.  From the lazy butt attitude towards ME2 friends (great goodbyes over the phone) to the handling of Shepard, to the handling of those both inside and outside of the story that should have had a decent resolution and epilog to Shepard's story, it was wrong. 

Mac on a superficial level sort of understands people should care about the characters, but he seems to think that he has the say so as to when that caring should stop and that they should just easily move on in his timeframe.  Funny  thing is most writers would literally kill to have people feel about the characters they created the way people did about ME characters.  And the best films, best books, all feature characters that are long remembered AFTER much of the story is forgotten. 

The sad thing here is that many people that didn't like how the characters (especially Shepard) were treated often either wish for (but know it won't happen) some kind of great story like that youtube video of the Search for Shepard or they just hope Bioware will ignore this whole trilogy and start over again with a new story and new characters and that they'll get it right this time.  Flimsy hopes but still there.

[3DandBeyond]

iakus wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...

Killdren88 wrote...

I somewhat feel better knowing one of my favorite you tubers shares my opinions on the ending but I agree enjoy the universe and try to forget it ever happened.

 

Yep, and then hope somebody with a working synapse understands that when you give people a game with choice and differing dialogue, and have them play as the main character, said by everyone to be this amazing person, well known whether for good or not so good, based on how the player played the game, you are giving them some ownership.  That means, ahem Mac Walters, people also form an emotional attachment to the characters (as a writer this is one of the fundamental things you want to do), and when allowed to form the values, morals, loves, hates, desires, even conscience, the player will want that stuff to make a difference.

Yeah, but because it just happens to be right fro some people's Shepards, it's appropriate for everyone's Shepards, regardless of how they played them and what choices were made.

Someone said something to that effect recently 

Oh don't I know that.  You and I have been posting about this stuff for a long time now.  I'd create a post and say that those endings, choices, and all are nothing that my Shepard would do and give reasons as to why-from dialogue BW allowed me to put into MY Shepard's mouth.  That's dialogue I did not create but used-therefore, they actually allowed me to create A Shepard that would never make one of their cookie cutter choices that make no sense as to the actual goal of 3 stories, and that MY Shepard would find morally reprehensible. 

Bottom line, I'd say what MY Shepard would think about all of this.  Then someone would say "but that's not what MY Shepard would think and MY Shepard would make a choice."  So, the amazing part was that they'd think because I wanted an ending that fit with MY Shepard that I was being selfish but couldn't see that that makes no sense.  As long as they had an ending that fit with the BW dialogue they used and what they figured it all meant, that was fine.  But those of us that used different dialogue that BW created and saw things differently had no right.

This all makes sense but only on Opposite Day, and official BW holiday.  It works on head canon too.  There's appropriate and inappropriate head canon as well.  If it fits with official BW statements (just try to make things fit with everything they said) and agrees that the endings are A-OK, then it's ok, but if it fundamentally disagrees with how the endings were handled, then pish posh, it should not be done, EVER.  That's not an allowable form of head canon.

[Oni Changas]

I don't think Mac is a bad writer per se, just that the flaws of ME were mostly artificial happenings and forced feelings.

Jack's transformation, while great, was rushed. It'd have made sense if the process begin in ME2 (growing hair and being less abrasive over the course of the game) or imo the better option of having the time jump be at least a year or two. This allow things to have progressed organically.

On the latter point, Thessia initially made sense with one of the earlier scripts in which a squadmate's life hung in the balance with the VS's. Even with Earth, we're not given reason to care other than an unfamiliar child. Had we A) Got to know the kid (learning he's an orphan, taking him in and having Paragon/Renegade influence on him) or Got to know Earth (think Citadel in terms of activities) and saw what our planet was like culturally in the year 2186.

Well, I digress.

[3DandBeyond]

OniTYME wrote...

I don't think Mac is a bad writer per se, just that the flaws of ME were mostly artificial happenings and forced feelings.

Jack's transformation, while great, was rushed. It'd have made sense if the process begin in ME2 (growing hair and being less abrasive over the course of the game) or imo the better option of having the time jump be at least a year or two. This allow things to have progressed organically.

On the latter point, Thessia initially made sense with one of the earlier scripts in which a squadmate's life hung in the balance with the VS's. Even with Earth, we're not given reason to care other than an unfamiliar child. Had we A) Got to know the kid (learning he's an orphan, taking him in and having Paragon/Renegade influence on him) or Got to know Earth (think Citadel in terms of activities) and saw what our planet was like culturally in the year 2186.

Well, I digress.

Such is the way of all things in BW-land.  Don't forget that in ME1, one wrong or right sentence that doesn't seem to lead there, gets you a love interest even if you never intended it.  Everything tends to be rushed unless it isn't.

As for Earth being the central point of all concern in ME3-I find it obnoxious.  This was a galactic war where the galaxy was being forced to realize an enemy existed and that they had to come together to fight it or the galaxy would cease to exist as it currently was.  It's an affront to anyone with a working brain to have it all boil down to "let's save Earth". 

I see the reason for it being about Earth is they had started to carry on some things from ME2-the idea of the human reaper and this obsession the reapers had with Shepard (wanting Shepard's body, the plague on Omega, and so on).  So Bioware started a story about Earth that was to explain the reapers were going to target Earth primarily for reasons never fully talked about in the game, but then when someone introduced the crucible idea, it all came to be about protecting the crucible THAT WAS NOT AT EARTH.  I capitalized that because some people have consistently insisted the whole idea wasn't to protect Earth but to protect the crucible.

We're never actually given any understanding as to why everyone assembles at Earth but apparently they just know the citadel will be moved there (I guess before being moved to other planets after sucking Earth dry of organic life).  The issue here is that A) Until the reapers actually attack, no one listens to Shepard's warning that they're coming, Suddenly, even though other planets are being attacked first and literally being all but destroyed, Earth becomes the focus, but what if the citadel and the conduit to it had been moved to Palaven while everyone's assembling on Earth?, C) The Alliance that locked Shepard up, even though some in power knew the reapers were coming, wait for Earth to be attacked by them and then want others to protect it, and D) Given what happened on Palaven and Thessia and everywhere else, the assumption should have been that Earth would go the same way and quickly. 

All of this leads to a story where there are too many assumptions made by the principle players in deciding to go with protecting Earth.  The real sensible thing would have been to protect the citadel-efforts should have been made given all that had happened in ME1, ME2, and ME3 (with Cerberus) to protect it and then especially when the reapers arrived.

I just don't think there's ever enough story to back up going all in to save Earth.  It was about the galaxy.

[SwobyJ]

crimzontearz wrote...

Or even better

If some of you are familiar with the "D20 world of darkness setting" ...that, that would likely solve it all

ME1-3 was a quantum entangled indoctrination world for Shepard.

ME4-6 is the 'real' story of the Mass Effect universe, will be a great expansion on what we previously knew or thought we knew, won't directly address the Shepard Incident or the exact Shepard Events we played through.

lol

Modifié par SwobyJ, 28 octobre 2013 - 09:18 .

[AlanC9]

3DandBeyond wrote...
We're never actually given any understanding as to why everyone assembles at Earth but apparently they just know the citadel will be moved there (I guess before being moved to other planets after sucking Earth dry of organic life).

Wait, what? Does anyone actually assemble at Earth before the Citadel arrives there? I didn't see that happen, or hear anyone talk about it having happened. I saw fleets coming through the Charon Realay from someplace else.

[Xamufam]

3DandBeyond wrote...

OniTYME wrote...

I don't think Mac is a bad writer per se, just that the flaws of ME were mostly artificial happenings and forced feelings.

Jack's transformation, while great, was rushed. It'd have made sense if the process begin in ME2 (growing hair and being less abrasive over the course of the game) or imo the better option of having the time jump be at least a year or two. This allow things to have progressed organically.

On the latter point, Thessia initially made sense with one of the earlier scripts in which a squadmate's life hung in the balance with the VS's. Even with Earth, we're not given reason to care other than an unfamiliar child. Had we A) Got to know the kid (learning he's an orphan, taking him in and having Paragon/Renegade influence on him) or Got to know Earth (think Citadel in terms of activities) and saw what our planet was like culturally in the year 2186.

Well, I digress.

Such is the way of all things in BW-land.  Don't forget that in ME1, one wrong or right sentence that doesn't seem to lead there, gets you a love interest even if you never intended it.  Everything tends to be rushed unless it isn't.

As for Earth being the central point of all concern in ME3-I find it obnoxious.  This was a galactic war where the galaxy was being forced to realize an enemy existed and that they had to come together to fight it or the galaxy would cease to exist as it currently was.  It's an affront to anyone with a working brain to have it all boil down to "let's save Earth". 

I see the reason for it being about Earth is they had started to carry on some things from ME2-the idea of the human reaper and this obsession the reapers had with Shepard (wanting Shepard's body, the plague on Omega, and so on).  So Bioware started a story about Earth that was to explain the reapers were going to target Earth primarily for reasons never fully talked about in the game, but then when someone introduced the crucible idea, it all came to be about protecting the crucible THAT WAS NOT AT EARTH.  I capitalized that because some people have consistently insisted the whole idea wasn't to protect Earth but to protect the crucible.

We're never actually given any understanding as to why everyone assembles at Earth but apparently they just know the citadel will be moved there (I guess before being moved to other planets after sucking Earth dry of organic life).  The issue here is that A) Until the reapers actually attack, no one listens to Shepard's warning that they're coming, Suddenly, even though other planets are being attacked first and literally being all but destroyed, Earth becomes the focus, but what if the citadel and the conduit to it had been moved to Palaven while everyone's assembling on Earth?, C) The Alliance that locked Shepard up, even though some in power knew the reapers were coming, wait for Earth to be attacked by them and then want others to protect it, and D) Given what happened on Palaven and Thessia and everywhere else, the assumption should have been that Earth would go the same way and quickly. 

All of this leads to a story where there are too many assumptions made by the principle players in deciding to go with protecting Earth.  The real sensible thing would have been to protect the citadel-efforts should have been made given all that had happened in ME1, ME2, and ME3 (with Cerberus) to protect it and then especially when the reapers arrived.

I just don't think there's ever enough story to back up going all in to save Earth.  It was about the galaxy.

I think the original plot was that only humans met the requirement to become a reaper & shepard had impressed the reapers
Harbinger quotes


Quotes about the Squad data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
“Your allies have fallen, Shepard.”
“You have no one left, Shepard.”
“Your minions have failed, Shepard.”
“And now you stand alone, Shepard.”
“Quarian; considered due to cybernetic augmentation, weakened immune system too debilitating.”
“Drell; useless, insufficient numbers.”
“Human; viable possibility, aggression factor useful if controlled.”
“Asari; reliance upon alien species for reproduction shows genetic weakness.”
“Salarian; insufficient lifespan, fragile genetic structure.”
“Human; viable possibility, impressive genetic malleability.”
“Geth; an annoyance, limited utility.”

“Human; viable possibility, impressive technical potential.”
“Human; viable possibility, if emotional drives are subjugated.”
“Human; viable possibility, great biotic potential.”
“Krogan; sterilised race, potential wasted.”
“Turian; you are considered...too primitive.”

Destiny Quotes data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIABAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAEALAAAAAABAAEAQAICTAEAOw%3D%3D
“Your worlds will become our laboratories.”
“We are your genetic destiny.”
“You do not yet comprehend your place in things.”
“We are the Harbinger of your perfection.”
“You are ignorant, we are knowing.”
“We are the Harbinger of your ascendance.”
“You have merely delayed the inevitable.”
“The experiments will continue, Shepard.”
“Take what is useful, destroy the rest.”
“Progress cannot be halted.”
“We are the Harbinger of your destiny.”

Pain Quotes
“Such beings need never fear pain.”
“Sentient beings need never fear pain.”
“There is no pain.”
“You only damage the vessel, you cannot hurt me.”
“This body's pain is irrelevant.”
“Pain is an illusion.”

More harbinger quotes

[Chashan]

AlanC9 wrote...

3DandBeyond wrote...
We're never actually given any understanding as to why everyone assembles at Earth but apparently they just know the citadel will be moved there (I guess before being moved to other planets after sucking Earth dry of organic life).

Wait, what? Does anyone actually assemble at Earth before the Citadel arrives there? I didn't see that happen, or hear anyone talk about it having happened. I saw fleets coming through the Charon Realay from someplace else.

Suppose the problem there boils down to the entire procedure being waved off as 'Reapers took Citadel just so and it is moved to Earth, duh'. With none of that shown instead of told this way.

'Lame' is too apt a way to describe this.