214 réponses à ce sujet

[RandomGuy96]

KaiserShep wrote...

I wouldn't really describe wiping out the geth as beneficial in the end, since they were helping the quarians to rebuild if you brokered peace between them. The benefit is simply that the enemy is dead and life can move on without them.

Well, it is if you didn't like the geth but were roleplaying a pragmatic Shepard who needed them. Not a big niche, but still. And it is a benefit for a paranoid Shepard, as the geth have the potential to be quite dangerous. But these days, for other reasons, I just settle for wiping 'em out at Rannoch. 
Plus, I was half-joking anyway, since most people see that as Destroy's big drawback. 

[AlanC9]

CronoDragoon wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

 I only bought that a couple days ago.

Oh, damn sorry.

I think you'll find DA2 interesting. It doesn't follow Mass Effect's "use persuasion to win without cost" system and several times has unavoidable bad ends, with your choices only shaping the details.

Sounds good. You didn't spoil anything that hadn't been spoiled already over the years.

[AlanC9]

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Didn't help the relays were destroyed and earth roasted, so it was extremely likely the quarians and turians would all starve to death before they could get home.

I'm pretty sure that's why they made a point of showing quarian liveships in the fleet check-in.

Doesn't help it's established in canon if you break out of the relay jump the radiation will kill everyone on boards. Whoops, lore.

Who ever said they didn't end up in the system they were heading to anyway?

[KiwiQuiche]

AlanC9 wrote...

KiwiQuiche wrote...
Didn't help the relays were destroyed and earth roasted, so it was extremely likely the quarians and turians would all starve to death before they could get home.

I'm pretty sure that's why they made a point of showing quarian liveships in the fleet check-in.

Doesn't help it's established in canon if you break out of the relay jump the radiation will kill everyone on boards. Whoops, lore.

Who ever said they didn't end up in the system they were heading to anyway?

Yet we dunno how many are left after the fight.


They still broke the jump; the radiation backlash would kill everyone.

[AlanC9]

Who ever said they broke the jump? If they broke the jump the chance of them ending up anywhere near a habitable planet are pretty small..... infinitesimal if Normandy's too badly damaged to travel far in FTL. And we never do see the ship exit the relay corridor.

Normandy ended up in exactly the system they were heading to the whole time. Which means they crashed on Demeter, since according to the Codex that's the only colonized planet within range of the Charon Relay -- all the others require using one of the primary relays at Arcturus first.

[I Tsunayoshi I]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sora Kitano wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
If the Catalyst is really desperate and lying, why not tell better lies? Or not tell Shepard anything and just wait for the Reapers to blow up the Crucible?

Ignoring that as a player we are going to pretty much be able to spot the steaming bull**** before the Catalyst gets it all out, Shepard is half dead and more than likely unable to think clearly. It really doesnt take much effort to deceive someone that isnt capable of maintaining a proper thought process.

So he's willing to run a huge risk for no good reason except that he might get away with it?

Putting in what the player knows. We know the Catalyst is lying through its proverbial teeth. Mainly in that if Destroy cant selectively target one synthetic race over another, then Control either should have the same limitation or be an obvious trap. Reverse also applies in that if Control can selectively target, then Destroy should as well. Either way you look at it, Shepard is taking a lie at face value.

Are you arguing that the Crucible does do what he says it will do, but he's lying by omission, since the only reason it works that way is because he makes it do so? If he can control the Crucible, why have Destroy or Control work at all? What does he gain by doing that?

Or are you arguming that the endings don't do what they appear to do? I have seen headcanon that powerful on occasion.

Beyond that definitely requires meta-gaming to figure out. Namely, how does destroying your own body actually do any good. Destroying the body through any means doesnt create energy. .....

This whole passage is you trying to substitute your own lore for the game's lore. It's OK to do that as long as you recognize that you're doing it. You don't seem to be able to distinguish between our own headcanon and the game, though I'm not sure that isn't just bad rhetoric. But for the moment I'll take you at face value.

You're a little different from the Destroyers I mentioned before. You're making up stuff about Destroy itself.

1: The Catalyst is a more advanced and human like AI compared to anything else we have seen in the game. Why is the idea that it could be taking its own leap of faith to save itself seem implausible.

2: I already admitted that I substitute my version of the ending in place of what is in the game because I can not get past the lies being told by the Catalyst.

That out of the way, again. The Catalyst isnt lying by omission. It's blatant lying. Lies that are not even being hidden. Destroy = Dumb Bomb and Control = Smart Bomb? I dont believe that for a moment when both of those structures are attached to the Citadel, and under the possibility of interferance or other modification

Is the Catalyst actually interfering? No idea. Still hard to trust much of anything it says outside of what we have seen in the game, since ya know, it did make Harbinger and nearly wipe out its own creators, which in turn lead to the pointless cycle of harvesting the galaxy to stop a conflict that could have been resolved with actual intelligent thought.

As for what Control and Synthesis mechanisms do, I've already pointed out that scientific laws most definitly make Synthesis impossible, and makes Control highly implausible

3: I resent the accusation you made that I am making stuff up and that you apparently know more about what goes on in my head that I do.

[AlanC9]

Sora Kitano wrote...
1: The Catalyst is a more advanced and human like AI compared to anything else we have seen in the game. Why is the idea that it could be taking its own leap of faith to save itself seem implausible.

Huh? I don't have any problem with the concept of the Catalyst telling lies. My problem is that the specific lies you claim he's telling are stupid, and the reason for him telling them is more stupid -- why tell him anything at all?

2: I already admitted that I substitute my version of the ending in place of what is in the game because I can not get past the lies being told by the Catalyst.

My point was that you're making up the lies too. "Making up" in the sense that they're not true in the universe Bio intended to create.  You really think that Bio deliberately made the endings scientifically implausible so we wouldn't believe them? Really?

That out of the way, again. The Catalyst isnt lying by omission. It's blatant lying. Lies that are not even being hidden. Destroy = Dumb Bomb and Control = Smart Bomb? I dont believe that for a moment when both of those structures are attached to the Citadel, and under the possibility of interferance or other modification

Is the Catalyst actually interfering? No idea. Still hard to trust much of anything it says outside of what we have seen in the game, since ya know, it did make Harbinger and nearly wipe out its own creators, which in turn lead to the pointless cycle of harvesting the galaxy to stop a conflict that could have been resolved with actual intelligent thought.

I forget. Are you going full IT here? The game shows that the Crucible does what it is said to do. So those have to be indoctrinated hallucinations for your web of nonsense to hold up, as far as I can see. But the Destroy ending is real? Or are we still waiting for the magic DLC ending?

As for what Control and Synthesis mechanisms do, I've already pointed out that scientific laws most definitly make Synthesis impossible, and makes Control highly implausible

Don't be silly. Bio hasn't let scientific laws interfere with anything else in the MEU. Why would they start doing that with the endings?

Modifié par AlanC9, 05 décembre 2013 - 11:51 .

[KiwiQuiche]

AlanC9 wrote...

Who ever said they broke the jump? If they broke the jump the chance of them ending up anywhere near a habitable planet are pretty small..... infinitesimal if Normandy's too badly damaged to travel far in FTL. And we never do see the ship exit the relay corridor.

Normandy ended up in exactly the system they were heading to the whole time. Which means they crashed on Demeter, since according to the Codex that's the only colonized planet within range of the Charon Relay -- all the others require using one of the primary relays at Arcturus first.

Did you forget the part where they got yanked out of the jump when the blast from the Crucible hit them? And, ya know, fall right back out the massive hole left and crashed on some random planet? Why would they go to Demteter to begin with, anyway? A colonized planet means crap when the Reapers are still around to harvest everyone, which in two of the ends (assuming synthesis makes everyone hivemind and durr peace) leave the crew not knowing wtf happened.

The whole thing is daft.

[AlanC9]

I saw them get hit by the blast. Then my screen went black. I didn't see the ship stop.What did your screen show?

As for Demeter, it's as good a destination as any to pick for a rendezvous. Where should they have been going? And since it's within standard FTL range of Earth, of course they'll find out what happened. Eventually.

Modifié par AlanC9, 08 décembre 2013 - 04:42 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Who ever said they broke the jump? If they broke the jump the chance of them ending up anywhere near a habitable planet are pretty small..... infinitesimal if Normandy's too badly damaged to travel far in FTL. And we never do see the ship exit the relay corridor.

Normandy ended up in exactly the system they were heading to the whole time. Which means they crashed on Demeter, since according to the Codex that's the only colonized planet within range of the Charon Relay -- all the others require using one of the primary relays at Arcturus first.

Did you forget the part where they got yanked out of the jump when the blast from the Crucible hit them? And, ya know, fall right back out the massive hole left and crashed on some random planet? Why would they go to Demteter to begin with, anyway? A colonized planet means crap when the Reapers are still around to harvest everyone, which in two of the ends (assuming synthesis makes everyone hivemind and durr peace) leave the crew not knowing wtf happened.

The whole thing is daft.

I think we're reading to far into this. The writer's just wanted the Normandy to land on a lush green planet for the whole 'hope' and 'new beginnings' metaphor. I don't think they put in any effort past that.

[AlanC9]

ImaginaryMatter wrote...


I think we're reading to far into this. The writer's just wanted the Normandy to land on a lush green planet for the whole 'hope' and 'new beginnings' metaphor. I don't think they put in any effort past that.

Heh. Sure.

But that doesn't mean we should invent problems ehere there aren't any.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

[Rotward]

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

[KiwiQuiche]

AlanC9 wrote...

I saw them get hit by the blast. Then my screen went black. I didn't see the ship stop.What did your screen show?

As for Demeter, it's as good a destination as any to pick for a rendezvous. Where should they have been going? And since it's within standard FTL range of Earth, of course they'll find out what happened. Eventually.

Them getting sucked back out of the hole the Crucible blast created, pulling them out of the jump.

Not fleeing and abandoning everyone on Earth?

But as Matter said, it was mainly for "new beginning" with the retarded "Adam and Eve" bull we got with Joker and EDI. Oh wow, so deep.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

no

[Steelcan]

DinoSteve wrote...

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

no

Because the Crucible was built to interface with them,

if you think the Reapers designed the Crucible or some nonsense I can direct you someplace where you might find people willing to listen

Have at it

[AlanC9]

KiwiQuiche wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

I saw them get hit by the blast. Then my screen went black. I didn't see the ship stop.What did your screen show?

Them getting sucked back out of the hole the Crucible blast created, pulling them out of the jump.

They get passed by the Crucible wave, sure. Why would that take them out of the jump?

[Deathsaurer]

StreetMagic wrote...

Why the hell is it even built to work like that? :happy:

Well you can always handwave that with the Catalyst chatting in a similar manor to the Leviathans and you're not physically interacting with the device, just inputting a new command on how to activate it  into the Catalyst. One of the reasons I find this idea appealing.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Steelcan wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

no

Because the Crucible was built to interface with them,

if you think the Reapers designed the Crucible or some nonsense I can direct you someplace where you might find people willing to listen

Have at it

If thats the case how did people know the crucible would fit the citadel, how did the know the ports would match up, how did the even know the ports where there? and why would the Citadel even have those ports to begin with, unless the crucible was always meant to happen?

Modifié par DinoSteve, 08 décembre 2013 - 05:28 .

[AlanC9]

DinoSteve wrote...

If thats the case how did people know the crucible would fit the citadel, how did the know the ports would match up, how did the even know the ports where there?

The designers knew stuff Shepard, Liara, and company didn't. We already knew that.

[Rotward]

DinoSteve wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

no

If thats the case how did people know the crucible would fit the citadel, how did the know the ports would match up, how did the even know the ports where there?

It was built to interface with the citadel, it made use of what was there. The protheans, and their pedecesors, knew what the catalyst was. The crucible was designed by them, and they knew it was meant to hook into the citadel.

You might as well be asking how we know a plug will fit in an outlet. 

Modifié par Rotward, 08 décembre 2013 - 05:32 .

[ImaginaryMatter]

StreetMagic wrote...

The crucible is another example. I understand the symbols they're trying to convey on the "interface" (with Destroy, Control, etc), but it doesn't make sense on a functional/concrete level. Why the hell is it even built to work like that? :happy:

Oh, goodness, I think the Destroy option being activated by shooting at what appears to be a volatile fuel line is the worst part about the ending. I get that it's probably a visual to reinforce that this is the 'destroy!' option; but the whole notion that discharging a gun into a critical component of a complex piece of machinery is the activation mechanism, fills be with berserker levels of nerd rage.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Rotward wrote...

DinoSteve wrote...

and why the hell would the catalyst/reapers build the citadel to fit the crucible, it just doesn't make sense to me.

This IS sarcasm, right? 

no

If thats the case how did people know the crucible would fit the citadel, how did the know the ports would match up, how did the even know the ports where there?

It was built to interface with the citadel, it made use of what was there. 

But the crucible fits perfectly into the citadel, why does the Citadel even have whats needed there, for the crucible to fit.
For it all to work the Citadel would have to be modified at least in some way for the crucible to fit.

[Rotward]

DinoSteve wrote...
But the crucible fits perfectly into the citadel, why does the Citadel even have whats needed there, for the crucible to fit.
For it all to work the Citadel would have to be modified at least in some way for the crucible to fit.

False. Don't know what to tell you, bud. Any engineer would laugh at that statement.