1010 réponses à ce sujet

[Eterna]

Steelcan wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

Plus, in Destroy you end up in a peer group of players who hated the Geth and wanted them destroyed, which is not a fun group to end up with.

Are you kidding? Fun is my middle name.

Cthulhu Fun 42, that's what they call me.

Our Clique is pretty cool place tbh

I was there for like 5 minutes before being kicked out. It wasn't that great tbh, just people ****ing about other people. Mostly David. 

Modifié par Eterna5, 20 octobre 2013 - 08:09 .

[TheMyron]

@OP: That's because with Control/Synthesis, the Player's Character/Shepard is dead, and thus has little to no control over the post-war ending, thus making it much easier to accept.

In the Destroy ending, however, Shepard has no reason to end up dead at all, and thus should still have some control, but alas, the final and most insulting shoehorning of all takes place; Shepard is now totally hijacked and ends up being forced to commit suicide.

P.S. The bloody "Gasp" scene is nothing more than a dirty tissue offered to clean up the angry tears.

Modifié par TheMyron, 20 octobre 2013 - 11:58 .

[Sir DeLoria]

Haha, Xil and David heroically defending the rights of their beloved AIs.

[Morty Smith]

[Ieldra]

LagoonaLahaana wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That is incredibly crappy journalism. That quote (very clearly, I might add) refers to Walter White from Breaking Bad. Not to Shepard. Whoever wrote that garbage should be fired.

Thanks for that info. I just got into Mass Effect so my knowledge on the quotes is really bad, but am disregarding said article.

Regardless of any quotes, the breath scene speaks for itself. It means that Shepard is alive at this point.

Anyway, the scene feels like a compromise. I sense disagreements among the dev team. There were those who wanted Shepard to die unambiguously, there are those who said "You can't do that, we need one outcome where Shepard survives". The breath scene is put in as a minimum concession to the second faction, then members of the first faction come out on Twitter and try to compromise its significance by saying "Well, it could just be his last breath" (That's what happened last year). 

Regardless, the scene exists and it would make no sense to exist if it didn't mean that Shepard can survive.

[crimzontearz]

AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

crimzontearz wrote...

They did need a way for the player to Refuse if he didn't do so during the dialogue.

no, no they did not

You think it would be OK to trap players into one of the three endings instead of letting them trigger Refuse? Really?

Not everybody plays with a walkthrough open in another window.

uh yeah, there is a "refuse" option in the dialogue, make it clear on the wheel and move on, there was no need for the refuse trigger to be tied to shooting the starbrat

"Need" is a bit strong there. But it's still good to have so a player who plays out the conversation without coming to a final decision still has all his options open. 

They should have left this out so idiots could shoot at a hologram?

Idiocy was not what made people shoot him past the cutscene, it was frustration and their utter dislike of the ending in general and him in particular being one of things "most wrong" with it. Bioware took conscious action to add a not needed trigger on an action in a way no.other action is triggered in the game. I am sorry I am not buying the fact that it was casual.

[Ieldra]

StreetMagic wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Haha, Xil and David heroically defending the rights of their beloved AIs.

I think that's all fine and well, but AIs don't even exist yet. No hypothetical or theory deserves this level of passion. Some people at this site latch on their pet fantasy subjects like they're actual realities (look at the dudes who vehemently defend magic rights vs Qun in the DA section). As long as people are just having fun with it and roleplaying devil's advocate, that's cool.. but sometimes I can't tell who's serious or not.

These things evoke passion because they're thematically representative of elements of the real world. The mage/templar conflict is basically security vs. freedom, the qun/Tevinter conflict is individualism vs. collectivism, the question of AIs points to ideas about whether "we're all machines" (Engineer Adams) or there is some extra element to organic intelligent life (Dr. Chakwas). It is not at all surprising or weird that people get passionate about that.

[Xilizhra]

I'm very serious about a subject that may well come to be realized relatively soon. Of course, it also might not, but I don't think we should underestimate the pace of technology; it frequently takes us into undreamed-of areas.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Ieldra2 wrote...

LagoonaLahaana wrote...

David7204 wrote...

That is incredibly crappy journalism. That quote (very clearly, I might add) refers to Walter White from Breaking Bad. Not to Shepard. Whoever wrote that garbage should be fired.

Thanks for that info. I just got into Mass Effect so my knowledge on the quotes is really bad, but am disregarding said article.

Regardless of any quotes, the breath scene speaks for itself. It means that Shepard is alive at this point.

Anyway, the scene feels like a compromise. I sense disagreements among the dev team. There were those who wanted Shepard to die unambiguously, there are those who said "You can't do that, we need one outcome where Shepard survives". The breath scene is put in as a minimum concession to the second faction, then members of the first faction come out on Twitter and try to compromise its significance by saying "Well, it could just be his last breath" (That's what happened last year). 

Regardless, the scene exists and it would make no sense to exist if it didn't mean that Shepard can survive.

And as has been stated, this was a rather poor decision. The inequality over the concern of Shepard's fate is equal. Whereas in the other endings, you know what has really gone on for Shepard and that he is gone, while here, you have a compromised, minimal scene that comes off more as an easter egg than a legitimate acknowledgement for Shepard's survival. And it's just done in such an... ill concieved manner. Why does Shepard have to be in a pile of rubble?

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

[Xilizhra]

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

*snrk*
No need to be exclusionary about waifus.

Remember, too, that Garrus and Tali are ME2 LIs.

Modifié par Xilizhra, 20 octobre 2013 - 12:18 .

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

*snrk*
No need to be exclusionary about waifus.

Remember, too, that Garrus and Tali are ME2 LIs.

And they get a memorial scene as well.

I get a slide of Miranda looking at the stars. Adding the breathe scene in a hospital with Miranda grabbing Shepard's hand is about 10 seconds overall. The memorial scene gets at least 40 seconds. Plus they get an actual goodbye in game.

[Xilizhra]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

*snrk*
No need to be exclusionary about waifus.

Remember, too, that Garrus and Tali are ME2 LIs.

And they get a memorial scene as well.

I get a slide of Miranda looking at the stars. Adding the breathe scene in a hospital with Miranda grabbing Shepard's hand is about 10 seconds overall. The memorial scene gets at least 40 seconds. Plus they get an actual goodbye in game.

So that leaves... two LIs, total, both for straight male Shepard, who can actually reunite with Shepard. ****storm ahoy.

Especially since you excluding all but two LIs doesn't actually have you gain anything.

[wright1978]

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

And as has been stated, this was a rather poor decision. The inequality over the concern of Shepard's fate is equal. Whereas in the other endings, you know what has really gone on for Shepard and that he is gone, while here, you have a compromised, minimal scene that comes off more as an easter egg than a legitimate acknowledgement for Shepard's survival. And it's just done in such an... ill concieved manner. Why does Shepard have to be in a pile of rubble?

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

Yep. Bolded really is my impresssion coupled with the fact dead Shep getting a huge memorial scene whilst rather than have live shep have their own scene or have the memorial take place on earth with live shep present(wonder where i've seen such a scene) they get exactly the same memorial for dead shep with joke pause. Infirmiary scene would have been fine too.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

MassivelyEffective0730 wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I personally believe that his survival would have been improved if he was in an infirmary ward, same image, but on a bed, with the silhouette of the LI standing over him, grabbing his hand when he breathes (though I'd personally have the ME2 LI's here only, seeing as Shepard's ME1 and ME3 LI's got the whole memorial and general showcase in the game, as well as being away from Earth at the time.)

*snrk*
No need to be exclusionary about waifus.

Remember, too, that Garrus and Tali are ME2 LIs.

And they get a memorial scene as well.

I get a slide of Miranda looking at the stars. Adding the breathe scene in a hospital with Miranda grabbing Shepard's hand is about 10 seconds overall. The memorial scene gets at least 40 seconds. Plus they get an actual goodbye in game.

So that leaves... two LIs, total, both for straight male Shepard, who can actually reunite with Shepard. ****storm ahoy.

Especially since you excluding all but two LIs doesn't actually have you gain anything.

Now you're nitpicking. I never stipulated a straight male Shepard. You took that away on your own.

And if I did, then yes, you only have two LI's appearing. Two LI's that really got marginal content in the main game compared to other LI's.

I personally think of it as more personalized customization for the story.

If you happen to romance either of these characters, as part of a hospital breath scene, you get to see them grab Shepard's hand. The whole scene lasts about 10 seconds. I think that's fair. You guys got a memorial scene, a final mission, a final goodbye, several cutscenes, and a game.

[Xilizhra]

Now you're nitpicking. I never stipulated a straight male Shepard. You took that away on your own.

Yes, but your criteria only leave Miranda and Jack as those who can have some kind of reunion.

If you happen to romance either of these characters, as part of a hospital breath scene, you get to see them grab Shepard's hand. The whole scene lasts about 10 seconds. I think that's fair. You guys got a memorial scene, a final mission, a final goodbye, several cutscenes, and a game.

You're being remarkably silly and childish. If you want to ask for more content for your own LIs in ME3, feel free. That's fair. But your story gains absolutely nothing, you just get some kind of petty satisfaction out of screwing over those who didn't make your romance choice. Especially since a ten-second scene with no dialogue would be trivial to make to include all possibilities.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

Now you're nitpicking. I never stipulated a straight male Shepard. You took that away on your own.

Yes, but your criteria only leave Miranda and Jack as those who can have some kind of reunion.

Well, now, I'd be more willing to have a reunion scene if the lore allowed for it for the other characters. Miranda and Jack are left at bottom of the barrel throughout the entire game, but still in a position to be at Shepard's side back on Earth. The Normandy simply isn't, not yet.

If you happen to romance either of these characters, as part of a hospital breath scene, you get to see them grab Shepard's hand. The whole scene lasts about 10 seconds. I think that's fair. You guys got a memorial scene, a final mission, a final goodbye, several cutscenes, and a game.

You're being remarkably silly and childish. If you want to ask for more content for your own LIs in ME3, feel free. That's fair. But your story gains absolutely nothing, you just get some kind of petty satisfaction out of screwing over those who didn't make your romance choice. Especially since a ten-second scene with no dialogue would be trivial to make to include all possibilities.

I think my story gains immeasurably. Here comes the famous Xil 'you can't like it because I don't like it' schtick. And I have no sense of petty satisfaction over you. It's an extra scene for people who played with the LI's that weren't focussed on, especially since we really didn't get much of a goodbye on Earth. Citadel was definitely much more touching and personalized for each romance but it still doesn't do everything that it could do. 

You're claiming that you're being gipped out of a reunion. I'm saying that you're not, just that your reunion isn't shown on screen for plausible lore reasons. My reunion is a little bit of content for my Shepard that is personalized to my game. You already got tons of it already by romancing Liara. Seriously, it seems like you're just raining on my idea to rain on my idea.

[Zaalbar]

I pick Control or Synthesis because it gives me closure to Shepard's story.
Destroy raises questions for Shepard because of the breath scene in the final moments.

Control and Synthesis are probably the most silliest endings I've experienced but in each ending Shepard dies, or replaced by an A.I. and that's pretty much it... Closure, no ambiguous breath scene ending.

I can also buy into the fact that in Control and Synthesis the Reapers repair the relay network allowing all the races to return to their homeworlds for the epilogue.

I'm not sure how everyone was able to return home in the destroy ending's epilogue, it would take at least decades if not century's to repair the relay network without Reaper intervention and I'm pretty sure that it would take a considerable amount of time to travel home at standard FTL speeds.

Destroy was supposed to leave the galaxy in a post apocalyptic state but the EC sort of added the hope angle which in my opinion ruined that ending.

[Xilizhra]

Well, now, I'd be more willing to have a reunion scene if the lore allowed for it for the other characters. Miranda and Jack are left at bottom of the barrel throughout the entire game, but still in a position to be at Shepard's side back on Earth. The Normandy simply isn't, not yet.

All the Normandy needs to do is take off. It's really not very hard.

I think my story gains immeasurably. Here comes the famous Xil 'you can't like it because I don't like it' schtick. And I have no sense of petty satisfaction over you. It's an extra scene for people who played with the LI's that weren't focussed on, especially since we really didn't get much of a goodbye on Earth. Citadel was definitely much more touching and personalized for each romance but it still doesn't do everything that it could do.

You may gain by it, but you'd lose nothing if everyone had something to gain by it and not just you/Jackmancers.

You're claiming that you're being gipped out of a reunion. I'm saying that you're not, just that your reunion isn't shown on screen for plausible lore reasons. My reunion is a little bit of content for my Shepard that is personalized to my game. You already got tons of it already by romancing Liara. Seriously, it seems like you're just raining on my idea to rain on my idea.

I wouldn't have a reunion to begin with. I'm not even terribly fond of the idea, because I'm of the opinion that players who commit genocide should probably not be rewarded with cool things. But if we are going for that, your "plausible lore reason" is a paper-thin justification wholly nullified by FTL travel being a thing.

[MassivelyEffective0730]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, now, I'd be more willing to have a reunion scene if the lore allowed for it for the other characters. Miranda and Jack are left at bottom of the barrel throughout the entire game, but still in a position to be at Shepard's side back on Earth. The Normandy simply isn't, not yet.

All the Normandy needs to do is take off. It's really not very hard.

I'm sure it's much more complicated than that. Otherwise, they probably would have taken off as soon as they crashed. That would be fairly simple enough. I'm seeing the implication that they're going to be stuck there for at least a matter of days to make some repairs. To think otherwise is wishful thinking.

I think my story gains immeasurably. Here comes the famous Xil 'you can't like it because I don't like it' schtick. And I have no sense of petty satisfaction over you. It's an extra scene for people who played with the LI's that weren't focussed on, especially since we really didn't get much of a goodbye on Earth. Citadel was definitely much more touching and personalized for each romance but it still doesn't do everything that it could do.

You may gain by it, but you'd lose nothing if everyone had something to gain by it and not just you/Jackmancers.

No, I wouldn't. I'm not being exclusionary. I'm simply saying that only Miranda and Jack are in a position to be with Shepard at the hospital, having both been on Earth. And I'm also saying that due to largely unbalanced amount of content for them in comparison to other LI's, there's nothing wrong with Miranda and Jack getting a little extra in this hospital scene. You already have something we don't in the memorial scene. And the final goodbye. And the final mission. And the love scene on the Normandy.

You're claiming that you're being gipped out of a reunion. I'm saying that you're not, just that your reunion isn't shown on screen for plausible lore reasons. My reunion is a little bit of content for my Shepard that is personalized to my game. You already got tons of it already by romancing Liara. Seriously, it seems like you're just raining on my idea to rain on my idea.

I wouldn't have a reunion to begin with. I'm not even terribly fond of the idea, because I'm of the opinion that players who commit genocide should probably not be rewarded with cool things. But if we are going for that, your "plausible lore reason" is a paper-thin justification wholly nullified by FTL travel being a thing.

Well now you're going to turn this into a 'merits of destroy' argument so we can drop that now. Simply put, I'm one of the unfettered.

And I already said that your 'plausible lore explanation' is implausible since there is definitely some kind of damage to the Normandy that you are excusing for the sake of excusing.

[Ieldra]

zaalbar76 wrote...
I pick Control or Synthesis because it gives me closure to Shepard's story.
Destroy raises questions for Shepard because of the breath scene in the final moments.

Control and Synthesis are probably the most silliest endings I've experienced but in each ending Shepard dies, or replaced by an A.I. and that's pretty much it... Closure, no ambiguous breath scene ending.

I can also buy into the fact that in Control and Synthesis the Reapers repair the relay network allowing all the races to return to their homeworlds for the epilogue.

I'm not sure how everyone was able to return home in the destroy ending's epilogue, it would take at least decades if not century's to repair the relay network without Reaper intervention and I'm pretty sure that it would take a considerable amount of time to travel home at standard FTL speeds.

Destroy was supposed to leave the galaxy in a post apocalyptic state but the EC sort of added the hope angle which in my opinion ruined that ending.

Hope is needed for any ending. You really don't want a downer ending. Having said that, I've always said that the relays should've been destroyed for good in Destroy. That would have created an interesting future. Not post-apocalyptic, but with star travel limited to non-relay FTL there could've been a civilization with a renewed sense of exploration, definitely hopeful, reaching out into the unknown parts of the galaxy Citadel civilization bypassed because there was no relay there. I don't know why it had to be either "relay system is gone for good in all endings" or "relay system can be repaired in fairly short order" in all endings. Only EC Synthesis is ambiguous about it, in Destroy Hackett says "we can rebuild everything that was lost" and in Control the Reapers do the repair. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 octobre 2013 - 01:43 .

[dreamgazer]

Kroitz wrote...

What if people talk about how other people influence ideas by doing certain things? 

Or, what if people talk about the things that were crucial to certain people coming up with their ideas?

[Xilizhra]

I'm sure it's much more complicated than that. Otherwise, they probably would have taken off as soon as they crashed. That would be fairly simple enough. I'm seeing the implication that they're going to be stuck there for at least a matter of days to make some repairs. To think otherwise is wishful thinking.

How does that matter in the slightest? They'd still return to Earth.

No, I wouldn't. I'm not being exclusionary. I'm simply saying that only Miranda and Jack are in a position to be with Shepard at the hospital, having both been on Earth. And I'm also saying that due to largely unbalanced amount of content for them in comparison to other LI's, there's nothing wrong with Miranda and Jack getting a little extra in this hospital scene. You already have something we don't in the memorial scene. And the final goodbye. And the final mission. And the love scene on the Normandy.

Do you even ending critics? Anything happening at the end with implications of definite happily-ever-after scenarios will be seen as having infinitely more weight. Which... really, it does.

Well now you're going to turn this into a 'merits of destroy' argument so we can drop that now. Simply put, I'm one of the unfettered.

Don't flatter yourself.

[Fixers0]

 In response to the OP: I think it says something about certain peoples writing standards.