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Why are those who choose Control and Synthesis so much happier with the ending?


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#26
dorktainian

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Forst1999 wrote...

I guess control and synthesis supporters just like the concepts the ending introduces. Whereas many destroyers hate the very idea of synthesis and think the ending would be better if it didn't exist at all.

   


i seem to remember that only DESTROY and REFUSE were original endings in the great scheme of things - back when dark energy was the focus of the plot.  Control and Synthesis were just added to make those of you that have given in to the reapers reason to feel good about yourself.

#27
Ieldra

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I think there are several reasons for this difference:

(1) There is a part of the player base who wants basically for things to go back to normal. Reapers vanquished, civilization saved, Shepard gets the LI and remains untainted by any hard decision they had to make, i.e. finish the mission and go home. There is no such ending, but the nearest you get to it is Destroy, thus this part of the player base tends to end up choosing Destroy, but remains unsatisfied. Meanwhile, those who choose Control or Synthesis don't necessarily want for things to go back to normal and are quite content with the idea of transforming civilization.

(2) Those who are willing and able to suspend their disbelief for the Catalyst's organic/synthetic scenario (in spite of the narrative dissonance that ensues if you make peace on Rannoch, it has to be said) tend to end up choosing Control or Synthesis, since Destroy won't solve the problem. Those who can't or won't tend to end up choosing Destroy, since doing more than necessary appears not justified to them. Those are also more likely to reject the complete ending scenario as bullsh*t.

(3) Willingness to interpret. I don't have any hard data on this, but my impression is that those who are fine with speculating about the outcomes are more likely to choose Synthesis or Control, while those who would like to be told a story rather than taking an active hand in shaping their outcome by interpretation are more likely to choose Destroy. Since the ending caters to the former group more than to the latter, there are more dissatisfied people who choose Destroy. At the same time, those who aren't just fine with speculating and debating "what does X do?" but actively like it are more likely to choose Synthesis or Control because Destroy is too straightforward to invite discussion about what it does.

(4) Morality. People who see the ending as a "choose your atrocity" scenario tend to end up choosing Destroy or Refuse (for no reason I can understand, since Control is ethically much less problematic) but remain unsatisfied since they have no choice but to "tarnish their honor". Meanwhile, those whose ethics can encompass at least one of the choices and those who find "sacrificing their honor" acceptable are more evenly distributed between them, but are less likely to complain.

(5) For those who like Control, Shepard's personal fate is rather interesting, even cool. For those who like Synthesis, it isn't but the future of civilization is even more cool. Destroy lacks either. That's sort of the point of Destroy, actually, but there is no imagery that gives Destroyers an equal kind of satisfaction.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 octobre 2013 - 07:30 .


#28
Jukaga

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Great post Ieldra, I agree with your points.

#29
Tyrannosaurus Rex

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I hate the ending but I pick control because frankly I think it is the only ending that has any degree of competence put into it and is the only ending that come closest to preserving the spirit of the franchise. And hey, in a different story, control would be a pretty cool ending.

Modifié par Lizardviking, 19 octobre 2013 - 07:41 .


#30
AlanC9

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dorktainian wrote...
i seem to remember that only DESTROY and REFUSE were original endings in the great scheme of things - back when dark energy was the focus of the plot.  Control and Synthesis were just added to make those of you that have given in to the reapers reason to feel good about yourself.


I suppose the first sentence is correct, but you're completely wrong about the italed part. Refuse in the dark energy plot was giving in to the Reapers; you let them assimilate humanity for the good of the universe. Deliberately, and with full knowledge of the choice.

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 octobre 2013 - 07:43 .


#31
Nole

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Because we are indoctrinated.

#32
Deverz

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Basically, Destroy is the true "reject" ending. The people who reject the Catalyst's assertions and tunnel-vision logic, or dislike Bioware's writing of the entire ending, will probably chose Destroy (but still probably won't like it). Destroy gets rid of Reapers and the Catalyst completely, the sacrifice is Geth and EDI, but doing this lets the galaxy mold its own path, without enforcing peace by Shep-Reaper vanguards or genetic rewriting.

I used dislike all endings except Destroy, but I'm getting myself comfortable with Control. Like Destroy, it's an ending that mostly keeps the status quo but with a great benefit, Shep-Reapers. Synthesis is the one I can't quite come to terms with yet. I feel it changes too much what makes Mass Effect, well, Mass effect. I also feel it's a straw man's solution. You have to take the Catalyst's at its word (an AI who murdered a gazillion people) that synthetics are 100% guaranteed to exterminate organics unless he's there to stop it. The issue is real, but it's impossible to prove it's inevitable. Synthesis is the ending that poses the most questions with the fewest clear answers. Plus, I just think it's silly. "We're all the same now! Kumbaya!"

Modifié par Deverz, 19 octobre 2013 - 08:02 .


#33
David7204

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Someone's got their cause and effect mixed up.

#34
Ruadh

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Because they're deluded.

Leader of the enemy - 'You could destroy us, OR, you could commit suicide which will result in both man and machine living happily ever after. Don't ask how, there isn't enough time.
Shep - OK. That sounds brilliant. There's no way the reaper leader would try to convince me to pick a choice with no negative effects for the enemy!

Javik towards a paragon Shep sums it up best - 'You either choose the perfection of the machines, or the chaos of organics.'

#35
Mcfly616

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AlanC9 wrote...

dorktainian wrote...
i seem to remember that only DESTROY and REFUSE were original endings in the great scheme of things - back when dark energy was the focus of the plot.  Control and Synthesis were just added to make those of you that have given in to the reapers reason to feel good about yourself.


I suppose the first sentence is correct, but you're completely wrong about the italed part. Refuse in the dark energy plot was giving in to the Reapers; you let them assimilate humanity for the good of the universe. Deliberately, and with full knowledge of the choice.

the premise of the Dark Energy plot ending:

The Reapers purpose is to stop Dark Energy from consuming everything. Only organics can manipulate Dark Energy (per Drew K.), which is why the Reapers harvest organic civilizations in order to create new Reapers. For some reason, humans in the MEU are genetically different (per ME2). The final choice of the Dark Energy plot, was to allow the human race to be made into a Human Reaper that would end the threat of Dark Energy forever (finality)......Or, you could Destroy the Reapers and hope the species of the galaxy can find another way (ambiguity)


I like the EC endings as they are.....but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....

Modifié par Mcfly616, 19 octobre 2013 - 08:40 .


#36
AlanC9

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Ieldra2 wrote...
(2) Those who are willing and able to suspend their disbelief for the Catalyst's organic/synthetic scenario (in spite of the narrative dissonance that ensues if you make peace on Rannoch, it has to be said) tend to end up choosing Control or Synthesis, since Destroy won't solve the problem. Those who can't or won't tend to end up choosing Destroy, since doing more than necessary appears not justified to them. Those are also more likely to reject the complete ending scenario as bullsh*t.


Heh. This makes me feel like even more of an outlier. I'm in the italed group  - aren't bad guys supposed to be wrong about stuff? - but find the consequences of Destroy knock it out of contention. (And besides, Control keeps the Reapers on hand just in case synthetics do turn out to be a problem in a millenium or two.)

I think there might be a group six. I see players whose Shepards don't trust any option except Destroy, because they figure the Catalyst is lying about Synthesis and Control. (I don't know why they can trust Destroy, but whatever.) Having these options turn out to be true produces what I guess I'd call cognitive dissonance, which is resolved by attacking those endings, but seems to also spill over onto the choice itself. IT, of course, is another way to resolve such dissonance)

Modifié par AlanC9, 19 octobre 2013 - 08:47 .


#37
AlanC9

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Mcfly616 wrote...

I like the EC endings as they are.....but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....


I'd love to be able to read posts from that parallel universe's BSN. 

#38
Mcfly616

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AlanC9 wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

I like the EC endings as they are.....but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....


I'd love to be able to read posts from that parallel universe's BSN. 

for some reason, I think it'd be just as negative, hostile and toxic.....


...just for the sake of being negative, hostile and toxic.

#39
Skvindt

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Mcfly616 wrote...

the premise of the Dark Energy plot ending:

The Reapers purpose is to stop Dark Energy from consuming everything. Only organics can manipulate Dark Energy (per Drew K.), which is why the Reapers harvest organic civilizations in order to create new Reapers. For some reason, humans in the MEU are genetically different (per ME2). The final choice of the Dark Energy plot, was to allow the human race to be made into a Human Reaper that would end the threat of Dark Energy forever (finality)......Or, you could Destroy the Reapers and hope the species of the galaxy can find another way (ambiguity)


I like the EC endings as they are.....but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....


I dunno.  A terminator reaper floating through space sucking dark energy into it's mouth like it's a vacuum cleaner would be kinda funny.

#40
Mcfly616

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Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

I accept the Catalyst. And my preferred ending is Destroy.

#41
dreamgazer

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Empowerment, and overwhelming suspension of disbelief.

#42
Deverz

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The Dark Energy plot sounds way worse, in my opinion. At least the Organic/Synthetic stuff was for "keeping order in chaos" and had some semblance of ambiguity. The Dark Energy plot is going way overboard with the "we're killing you to save you" trope. I would've hated that.

Modifié par Deverz, 19 octobre 2013 - 08:59 .


#43
Obadiah

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AlanC9 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
(2) Those who are willing and able to suspend their disbelief for the Catalyst's organic/synthetic scenario (in spite of the narrative dissonance that ensues if you make peace on Rannoch, it has to be said) tend to end up choosing Control or Synthesis, since Destroy won't solve the problem. Those who can't or won't tend to end up choosing Destroy, since doing more than necessary appears not justified to them. Those are also more likely to reject the complete ending scenario as bullsh*t.


Heh. This makes me feel like even more of an outlier. I'm in the italed group  - aren't bad guys supposed to be wrong about stuff? - but find the consequences of Destroy knock it out of contention. (And besides, Control keeps the Reapers on hand just in case synthetics do turn out to be a problem in a millenium or two.)

I think there might be a group six. I see players whose Shepards don't trust any option except Destroy, because they figure the Catalyst is lying about Synthesis and Control. (I don't know why they can trust Destroy, but whatever.) Having these options turn out to be true produces what I guess I'd call cognitive dissonance, which is resolved by attacking those endings, but seems to also spill over onto the choice itself. IT, of course, is another way to resolve such dissonance)

I think part of the reason the ending choices work is because they are Shepard's enemy, the Illusive Man's, goals as well. The Illusive Man will willing the make extreme sacrifices, including using technology to transform humans and himself, in order to achieve his goal of controlling the Reapers and using them to uplift humanity and the galaxy under humanity's leadership.

The 3 original choices at end of Mass Effect 3 are an obvious play on that goal:
  • Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to achieve a goal
  • Control: Control the reapers
  • Synthsis: Transform life into something "better" that will not self-annihalate, and pretty much uplift them past the slow evolution (word used loosely) of technology.
I like it.

[Edit] Also, Saren trolls Refuse in ME1, "Do not mire yourself in pointless revolt. Do not sacrifice everything for the sake of petty freedoms."

Modifié par Obadiah, 19 octobre 2013 - 10:16 .


#44
Mcfly616

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SRX wrote...

I dunno.  A terminator reaper floating through space sucking dark energy into it's mouth like it's a vacuum cleaner would be kinda funny.

when Liara/Miranda/Jack/Samara/Jacob/Javik/Thane/Wrex manipulate Dark Energy (aka using Biotics), do they suck it into their mouths like vacuum cleaners?



For some reason I don't think that's how the Human Reaper would've worked....

#45
Cutlass Jack

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ginner dave wrote...

Because they're deluded.

Leader of the enemy - 'You could destroy us, OR, you could commit suicide which will result in both man and machine living happily ever after. Don't ask how, there isn't enough time.
Shep - OK. That sounds brilliant. There's no way the reaper leader would try to convince me to pick a choice with no negative effects for the enemy! 


Its equally deluded to believe the Destroy button works as advertised. Maybe it destroys them. Maybe it powers them up instead. Wouldn't it make more sense he was lying about the Destroy button?

Either you believe every button works as stated, or none of them.

#46
BaladasDemnevanni

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Mcfly616 wrote...

but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....


I think it had some good potential to it.

#47
Mr.House

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I don't know, maybe because they get closure from their Shepard and synthesis so happy it's disgusting.

#48
MegaSovereign

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Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02


I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

#49
Sir DeLoria

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"Killing" the Geth is a crime?

But alas I'm glad Wulf is gone, that guy was insane.

#50
Steelcan

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MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02


I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

It still requires a fundamental acceptance that people need to be ruled avoid screwing it up.