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[sveners]

Han Shot First wrote...

We know the relays are repaired in the post EC destroy ending, because we see characters that had been on Earth in other locales. Wrex for example is back in Tuchanka making babies and Samara is back at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery. The Citadel also gets rebuilt in the EC slides.

Krogans live for centuries, as do Asari. The Citadel in the final slide might be a rebuilt Citadel, but could also be before it's destruction since it's shown to be "anchored" to earth. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are, glass half full or half empty ^^

[Br3admax]

sveners wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Both endings show a Citadel perfectly fine orbiting Earth. Both endings show people smiling. The only difference is the kumbaya like green wave and hugging at the end. I've seen nothing that says the Reapers are free from anything. 

Control shows a Citadel perfectly fine. Synthesis shows a broken but intact Citadel. Destroy show a Citadel broken and burnt. "Where once they sought to destroy us......" check up on Synthesis on youtube. Free from being slaves the cycles would maybe be more correct.

1. All of the endings pretty muc become the same in the end.
2. What was the relevance of that quote? It still doesn't show anything.
3. The Citadel is shown repaired, as is all the relays.

I don't know if it hurts you or something, but the fact is, there is really no difference except for circuits. 

[Sir DeLoria]

sveners wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

We know the relays are repaired in the post EC destroy ending, because we see characters that had been on Earth in other locales. Wrex for example is back in Tuchanka making babies and Samara is back at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery. The Citadel also gets rebuilt in the EC slides.

Krogans live for centuries, as do Asari. The Citadel in the final slide might be a rebuilt Citadel, but could also be before it's destruction since it's shown to be "anchored" to earth. I guess it depends on what kind of person you are, glass half full or half empty ^^

What are you blabbering about? Of course the relalys are repaired quickly in high EMS destroy. If the damage is so miniscule as shown in the ending, why would it take centuries to repair them? 

[AlanC9]

Han Shot First wrote...

We know the relays are repaired in the post EC destroy ending, because we see characters that had been on Earth in other locales. Wrex for example is back in Tuchanka making babies and Samara is back at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery. The Citadel also gets rebuilt in the EC slides.

Since those characters will live for centuries, this does not require the relay network to be fixed anytime soon, or even at all.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:10 .

[sveners]

Br3ad wrote...

sveners wrote...

Br3ad wrote...

Both endings show a Citadel perfectly fine orbiting Earth. Both endings show people smiling. The only difference is the kumbaya like green wave and hugging at the end. I've seen nothing that says the Reapers are free from anything. 

Control shows a Citadel perfectly fine. Synthesis shows a broken but intact Citadel. Destroy show a Citadel broken and burnt. "Where once they sought to destroy us......" check up on Synthesis on youtube. Free from being slaves the cycles would maybe be more correct.

1. All of the endings pretty muc become the same in the end.
2. What was the relevance of that quote? It still doesn't show anything.
3. The Citadel is shown repaired, as is all the relays.

I don't know if it hurts you or something, but the fact is, there is really no difference except for circuits. 

"The war is over, and the Reapers are helping to rebuild. Where once they threatened us with extinction, they now bring us the collective knowledge of the cultures that came before" - EDI in Synthesis.

All the endings are radically different in their effect on the galaxy. I maintain that most loss is suffered with Destroy.
I do not like it, but that's how I see it.

It doesn't hurt me though, I just disagree with your assessment. 

[Br3admax]

EDI is not a Reaper, so how again is she an authority on the matter? And even if she was, what would that mean just by here saying something. Also, the choices really don't matter in the end. That is why a lot of us go with destroy, because then the most change happens. The Reapers are gone and there is no chance that they'll change their mind, and the thousands of cycles of DNA goo rape can end. Right here and right now.

Modifié par Br3ad, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:12 .

[AlanC9]

Necanor wrote...


What are you blabbering about? Of course the relalys are repaired quickly in high EMS destroy. If the damage is so miniscule as shown in the ending, why would it take centuries to repair them? 

Just because they're not blown to fragments doesn't mean the damage isn't extensive. My old hard drive looks intact, but I'll never recover another byte of data from it.

The Citadel races don't even know how to repair the relays. If they work on it, they'll figure it out. Someday. How many years?

Once a system has the knowledge, repairing the local relay will be doable. How do you repair a relay if the guys on the other side don't have the tech or industrial capacity to do it? (Not to mention the possiblility that primary relay links work like QECs, with something needing to physically travel to the destination to establish the link) Have to travel there via standard FTL. How many decades for that?

[Br3admax]

AlanC9 wrote...

Necanor wrote...


What are you blabbering about? Of course the relalys are repaired quickly in high EMS destroy. If the damage is so miniscule as shown in the ending, why would it take centuries to repair them? 

Just because they're not blown to fragments doesn't mean the damage isn't extensive. My old hard drive looks intact, but I'll never recover another byte of data from it.

The Citadel races don't even know how to repair the relays. If they work on it, they'll figure it out. Someday. How many years?

Once a system has the knowledge, repairing the local relay will be doable. How do you repair a relay if the guys on the other side don't have the tech or industrial capacity to do it? (Not to mention the possiblility that primary relay links work like QECs, with something needing to physically travel to the destination to establish the link) Have to travel there via standard FTL. How many decades for that?

You came here for logic. Sadly you will find none. 

[TheProtheans]

It's something to do with Control and Synthesis generally been considered the worse endings and so only the most hardcore Mass effect 3 fans are going to pick and defend them.
They're "happy" because I think they don't see the problems.
If you didn't see the bad stuff most people would be happy.

[Han Shot First]

AlanC9 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

We know the relays are repaired in the post EC destroy ending, because we see characters that had been on Earth in other locales. Wrex for example is back in Tuchanka making babies and Samara is back at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery. The Citadel also gets rebuilt in the EC slides.

Since those characters will live for centuries, this does not require the relay network to be fixed anytime soon, or even at all.

Both of those characters are fairly old by their species' standards. Do they have centuries of life left?

But even assuming for a moment that both can live another few centuries, I don't think Bioware was portraying the relay system as being damaged beyond repair in the EC epilogue. Besides Hackett's dialogue indicating the opposite, the main reason for the creation of the Extended Cut was to address many of the fan concerns and complaints with the original endings. One of those chief complaints was that the Dextro species would be stranded in the wake of the collapse of the relay system, and potentially condemned to starvation. That complaint was specifically mentioned by one of the devs (Weekes?) in discussion of the Extended Cut.

There is also this statement by Tully Ackland in discussing the Extended Cut:

You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.

That also addresses another fan complaint regarding the collapse of the relay system in the original endings, in that even Shepard did survive High EMS Destroy, he or she would never see their LI or companions again.

The civilizations being able to repair the Mass Effect Relay system also makes sense, considering post-Destroy there is going to literally be mountains of accessible Reaper technology floating about. All those dead Reapers can be dissected, studied, and reverse engineered with absolutely no fear of indoctrination. The galaxy should be about to make massive technological leaps forward.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:31 .

[KaiserShep]

AlanC9 wrote...

Han Shot First wrote...

We know the relays are repaired in the post EC destroy ending, because we see characters that had been on Earth in other locales. Wrex for example is back in Tuchanka making babies and Samara is back at the Ardat-Yakshi monastery. The Citadel also gets rebuilt in the EC slides.

Since those characters will live for centuries, this does not require the relay network to be fixed anytime soon, or even at all.

This is true, but at the very least, the Citadel, which is a relay, is seen fully restored, and there's not much reason why the Charon relay, the relays in the turian, asari and salarian-occupied systems wouldn't be reconstructed by whoever is still there. Since a portion of the quarians stayed behind the Perseus veil, they would probably do the same. 

[AlanC9]

Han Shot First wrote...
The Catalyst predicts that the destruction of organic species at the hands of synthetics is an inevitability without its 'solution.' The problem is that the history of the Mass Effect universe does not support this. Besides organics potentially being able to cooperate and coexist with the Geth, in previous conflicts with Synthetics Organic species have more often been the victors. The Protheans destroyed the Metacons and the Jha'Til, and the Leviathans crushed a synthetic rebellion prior to creating the Catalyst. And while the Geth nearly destroyed the Quarians, they posed no greater threat to the galaxy at large than any organic faction.

Defeat of earlier synthetic races is not really a problem for the Catalyst's argument, which doesn't rely on synthetics being invincible at all stages of their development. The argument is that synthetics can "evolve" -- quotes because it's a directed and deliberate process -- past the capabilities of their organic creators. Unless the synthetics had reached some sort of limit in their development, those wars don't test the hypothesis and can't disprove it.

It's more accurate to say that the argument is not subject to proof, short of letting a cycle go on and seeing if either synthetics or organics really do hit a development limit , and so forth. The obvious problem with running that test is that if the hypothesis really is right, you've lost any ability to cope with the situation. (This is why I always thought getting into an argument with the Catalyst over the point would have been pointless.)

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:39 .

[AlanC9]

KaiserShep wrote...

This is true, but at the very least, the Citadel, which is a relay, is seen fully restored, and there's not much reason why the Charon relay, the relays in the turian, asari and salarian-occupied systems wouldn't be reconstructed by whoever is still there. Since a portion of the quarians stayed behind the Perseus veil, they would probably do the same. 

Are those pics date-stamped? That could be centuries in the future too.

I certainly do agree that the relays will be reconstructed at some point  But whether Tali dies of old age without ever seeing Rannoch again is an open question.

Modifié par AlanC9, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:38 .

[TheProtheans]

Br3ad wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

Necanor wrote...


What are you blabbering about? Of course the relalys are repaired quickly in high EMS destroy. If the damage is so miniscule as shown in the ending, why would it take centuries to repair them? 

Just because they're not blown to fragments doesn't mean the damage isn't extensive. My old hard drive looks intact, but I'll never recover another byte of data from it.

The Citadel races don't even know how to repair the relays. If they work on it, they'll figure it out. Someday. How many years?

Once a system has the knowledge, repairing the local relay will be doable. How do you repair a relay if the guys on the other side don't have the tech or industrial capacity to do it? (Not to mention the possiblility that primary relay links work like QECs, with something needing to physically travel to the destination to establish the link) Have to travel there via standard FTL. How many decades for that?

You came here for logic. Sadly you will find none. 

The Citadel races were the first race in known existence to build the most advanced piece of technology ever known.
And ultimately repairing something and recovering data are too different things, we only want to repair something.

I'd compare it to cloning a human, we only want to clone a human.
We don't want the exact same personality and brain activity.

[Br3admax]

Uh no. The Protheans built the Crucible already, and from ME2, it's obvious that they couldn't even repair the esthetics of the Citadel.

[KaiserShep]

AlanC9 wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

This is true, but at the very least, the Citadel, which is a relay, is seen fully restored, and there's not much reason why the Charon relay, the relays in the turian, asari and salarian-occupied systems wouldn't be reconstructed by whoever is still there. Since a portion of the quarians stayed behind the Perseus veil, they would probably do the same. 

Are those pics date-stamped? That could be centuries in the future too.

I certainly do agree that the relays will be reconstructed at some point  But whether Tali dies of old age without ever seeing Rannoch again is an open question.

Fair point, but then the fact that the entire epilogue's timeline is particularly vague leaves it open to any kind of interpretation, since it seems to jump back and forth through time, with the Normandy seemingly being recently repaired during the memorial before it takes off being the last thing we see.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 21 octobre 2013 - 10:55 .

[eyezonlyii]

I just imagine the council races unloaded the keepers onto major relay networks and let them do their thing

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Necanor wrote...


What are you blabbering about? Of course the relalys are repaired quickly in high EMS destroy. If the damage is so miniscule as shown in the ending, why would it take centuries to repair them? 

Are you kidding me? That's miniscule? The Charon Relay was miniscule? Did you see it? Did we play the same game? We don't even know how they work.

1) manufacturing base destroyed - check
2) power grid destroyed - check
3) basic infrastructure on major worlds destroyed - check
4) your technological base has been hit hard. Bioware gave you FTL, but otherwise you're back at about 1995.

Earth, Palaven, Thessia, and Khar'Shan have gone from "First World" to "Fourth World" 

You have a basic problem of getting fresh water, food, and supplying sanitation to the population. This is your first priority. You don't have the capacity to do it.

How are you going to rebuild the mass relay network in a few months?

The only worlds that are mostly intact are a few Asari colonies that surrendered outright, possibly Sur'Kesh, and Rannoch.

[KENNY4753]

because blue and green are happy colors

...and red is an angry color

[TheWerdna]

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

this

[Obadiah]

Honestly, I thought the dark age, in any ending, was still around and, like the Geth destruction in Destroy, the epilogue just didn't talk about it.

I don't think the dark age is as bad a people on this forum make it out to be, but the tech loss and regression is still there. Considering the kind of complexity needed to produce devices now, I can't really imagine the amount of work necessary to recreate the infrastructure needed to affect repairs. Not to mention that you'd need a massive quantity of resources.

[dreamgazer]

KENNY4753 wrote...

because blue and green are happy colors

...and red is an angry color

Close this thread up, ladies and gentlemen.  We've got a winner. 

[Br3admax]

My Happy Meals are red. Your theory is invalid.

Modifié par Br3ad, 22 octobre 2013 - 01:10 .

[dreamgazer]

Br3ad wrote...

My Happy Meals are red. You're theory is invalid.

Yeah, but the anger it breeds ...