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[Sir DeLoria]

Obadiah wrote...

• Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to acieve a goal

Switching off Joker's sexbot is 'extreme sacrifice'? I'm sorry, but I don't understand how EDI's survival is worth more than Shepard's. 

[Mr.House]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

[Ieldra]

Mr.House wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

You have no evidence at all for this claim.

[MegaSovereign]

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...


Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to acieve a goal

Switching off Joker's sexbot is 'extreme sacrifice'? I'm sorry, but I don't understand how EDI's survival is worth more than Shepard's. 

I really don't get this. How is EDI's body any more sexualized than the rest of the Mass Effect cast? And why would this matter when you consider the fact that she has saved the Normandy crew many times since she had been introduced in ME2?

[Mr.House]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

You have no evidence at all for this claim.

Control slides. If Shepard AI can make their own agenda why can't they control all Reapers to build the relays and citadel then have them fly into the sun? Because Shepard AI can't, he has to follow his/her programing.

[Sir DeLoria]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

You have no evidence at all for this claim.

Actually, that's exactly what the Catalyst says. 

You have no evidence at all for your claim however.

[wolfhowwl]

Necanor wrote...

"Killing" the Geth is a crime?

It isn't.

But then again neither is killing their creators.

Just sayin'.

[Obadiah]

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

• Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to acieve a goal

Switching off Joker's sexbot is 'extreme sacrifice'? I'm sorry, but I don't understand how EDI's survival is worth more than Shepard's. 

The extreme sacrifice is the Geth and all AI.

[MegaSovereign]

Mr.House wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

It is a new agenda regardless of how you look at it. The new Catalyst isn't trying to solve the old Catalyst's mandated Organics vs Synthetics problem.

Even if it's not really Shepard, the old Catalyst no longer exists. That's what I meant by it being "replaced."

[Sir DeLoria]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...


Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to acieve a goal

Switching off Joker's sexbot is 'extreme sacrifice'? I'm sorry, but I don't understand how EDI's survival is worth more than Shepard's. 

I really don't get this. How is EDI's body any more sexualized than the rest of the Mass Effect cast? And why would this matter when you consider the fact that she has saved the Normandy crew many times since she had been introduced in ME2?

Two words...robot cameltoe.

Sure, EDI might've saved the Normandy and crew, but Shepy saved the galaxy. Shep's life is worth more than its.

[Mr.House]

Did you really have to bring up the robotic cameltoe?

[Sir DeLoria]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...

"Killing" the Geth is a crime?

It isn't.

But then again neither is killing their creators.

Just sayin'.

Modifié par Necanor, 19 octobre 2013 - 10:23 .

[MegaSovereign]

Necanor wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Obadiah wrote...


Destroy: Extreme sacrifice to acieve a goal

Switching off Joker's sexbot is 'extreme sacrifice'? I'm sorry, but I don't understand how EDI's survival is worth more than Shepard's. 

I really don't get this. How is EDI's body any more sexualized than the rest of the Mass Effect cast? And why would this matter when you consider the fact that she has saved the Normandy crew many times since she had been introduced in ME2?

Two words...robot cameltoe.

Sure, EDI might've saved the Normandy and crew, but Shepy saved the galaxy. Shep's life is worth more than its.

So you measure the worth of people's lives through their deeds. Fair enough. I hope you realize that basically makes EDI pretty high up there compared to a lot of other squadmates.

Would you feel the same way about Destroy if say, Tali, got killed instead?

Modifié par MegaSovereign, 19 octobre 2013 - 10:24 .

[Br3admax]

Mr.House wrote...

Did you really have to bring up the robotic cameltoe?

Because you or Seb wanted to? 

[Ieldra]

Necanor wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

You have no evidence at all for this claim.

Actually, that's exactly what the Catalyst says. 

You have no evidence at all for your claim however.

The Catalyst says you (!) will determine how the Reapers are used, and that you (!) will control the Reapers. It is implied that there is continuity of (mental) identity between Shepard and the new Catalyst. Whether that's true on a philosophical level remains a matter of discussion, but it will have Shepard's will, Shepard's memory and Shepard's thoughts. 

Also, in the epilogue there is the statement "The man/woman I once was", a clear indication that there is continuity of identity, the same way I would say "the child I once was".

[Eckswhyzed]

BaladasDemnevanni wrote...

Mcfly616 wrote...

but I feel like the Dark Energy ending is on a whole other level of epicness....

I think it had some good potential to it.

My biggest gripe with the dark energy ending is that it really plays up the whole 'humans are magic and special' trope thing a lot. And despite accepting all sorts of ridiculous physics in the ME universe, the idea that using element zero somehow might cause the galaxy/universe to tear itself apart sounds silly to my ears.

I like organics vs. synthetics (or creator vs created) better because it's a lot more concrete, and has at least appeared a few times in the series. And certainly more than 2 lines in the second game.

[Br3admax]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Necanor wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...
Not really. What is created is not Shepard. It's simply a new Ai with your memories but it still is doingt he job it's old boss has done. The hwole "you create a new agenda" is folly.

You have no evidence at all for this claim.

Actually, that's exactly what the Catalyst says. 

You have no evidence at all for your claim however.

The Catalyst says you (!) will determine how the Reapers are used, and that you (!) will control the Reapers. It is implied that there is continuity of (mental) identity between Shepard and the new Catalyst. Whether that's true on a philosophical level remains a matter of discussion, but it will have Shepard's will, Shepard's memory and Shepard's thoughts. 

Also, in the epilogue there is the statement "The man/woman I once was", a clear indication that there is continuity of identity, the same way I would say "the child I once was".

Um, how is growing up related to becoming a computer? You would still be human with human emotions, I hope, so it's not the same. 

[Mr.House]

Br3ad wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Did you really have to bring up the robotic cameltoe?

Because you or Seb wanted to? 

[Sir DeLoria]

MegaSovereign wrote...

So you measure the worth of people's lives through their deeds. Fair enough. I hope you realize that basically makes EDI pretty high up there compared to a lot of other squadmates.

Would you feel the same way about Destroy if say, Tali, got killed instead?

No, I don't actually value the lives of people based on their deeds. I just don't see any reason, why some AI is worth saving over the greatest hero of the galaxy. EDI can be rebuilt, Shepard can't. EDI is an inanimate object, Shepard is a living being. 

[This is the End My Friend]

wolfhowwl wrote...

Necanor wrote...

"Killing" the Geth is a crime?

It isn't.

But then again neither is killing their creators.

Just sayin'.

Yep. Its not Shepard's fault both sides where hellbent on blowing each other out of the sky. 

[Br3admax]

If it meant saving the galaxy I would kill Tali. She's the second most useless squadmate in the game.

[Sir DeLoria]

@Obadiah

What if the Geth have already been dealt with? Beside the Geth and EDI, we don't know of any synthetics sophisticated enough to be a target of the big red wave.

[MegaSovereign]

Necanor wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

So you measure the worth of people's lives through their deeds. Fair enough. [/i]I hope you realize that basically makes EDI pretty high up there compared to a lot of other squadmates.

Would you feel the same way about Destroy if say, Tali, got killed instead?

No, I don't actually value the lives of people based on their deeds. I just don't see any reason, why some AI is worth saving over the greatest hero of the galaxy. EDI can be rebuilt, Shepard can't. EDI is an inanimate object, Shepard is a living being. 

Sentient beings are shaped by their environment and experiences. It's improbable that you can rebuild EDI exactly as she was.

A good example of this is Legion vs the Geth VI replacement. Both look and sound the same but they are vastly different characters.

[jtav]

Steelcan wrote...

MegaSovereign wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

People who like Control and Synthesis aren't going to be ones who disagree with the Catalyst. In order to accept those endings some degree of acceptance of the Catalyst is necessary.

People who reject the Catalyst or on a meta level reject BioWare's bad writing are more inclined to pick the option that does not mesh with what is viewed as the manifestation with everything wrong in the ending.


Just my $.02

I don't think this is particularly the case for Control. You essentially replace the Catalyst to asses your own agenda. It doesn't necessarily mean you agree with it.

It still requires a fundamental acceptance that people need to be ruled avoid screwing it up.

Considering some of the people we run into in this game, I don't really have a problem with that premise.

[Sir DeLoria]

MegaSovereign wrote...

Sentient beings are shaped by their environment and experiences. It's improbable that you can rebuild EDI exactly as she was.

A good example of this is Legion vs the Geth VI replacement. Both look and sound the same but they are vastly different characters.

So EDI's oh so compelling and invaluable personality is worth far, far more than Shepard's life? I see.