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[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Hypocrisy?

Shepard didn't know the full story until five minutes before Shepard had to make the choice. You played perhaps 140 hour of a story only to have all of it turned upside down in the last five minutes. You found out that the reapers are merely tools of this kid who controls them, and they are this kid's solution to a problem you didn't know existed until that point. The kid's solution was flawed, and the addition of the Crucible and you being there makes him see that. What now?

You get to choose new solutions. Synthesis ends the cycle for good. It's the only one that does. Control? Same things under new management. Destroy? It's 1995 or earlier again, and you destroy all synthetics including one or two entire races (Geth and the Virtual Aliens), plus all AIs.

[KaiserShep]

Come on. No way is the state of the galaxy in high-EMS destroy set back anywhere near 1995.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:11 .

[ghost9191]

KaiserShep wrote...

Come on. No way is the state of the galaxy in high-EMS destroy set back anywhere near 1995.

gotta agree with shotgun man, the ec clearly showed a lack of spaceships and everyone you saw had a walkman




sarcasm

Modifié par ghost9191, 27 octobre 2013 - 07:48 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

KaiserShep wrote...

Come on. No way is the state of the galaxy in high-EMS destroy set back anywhere near 1995.

No, you're right it is probably worse.

* Power grid destroyed by reapers - check
* Manufacturing base destroyed by reapers - check
* Fresh water distribution off line - check
* Sewage treatment off line - check
* Food availability and distribution - ??? - okay there is always the "Donner Party Solution" - now this tells me where all the husks went in the control and synthesis endings. They were eventually shot and eaten, hence the reason we do not see them in the slides. In the destroy ending they crumble.
* Medical supply crisis - check
* Synthetics destroyed by ending - VIs (yes these are synthetics) managing data storage and operating any systems still on line destroyed in addition to those mentioned directly by the ending (Geth, Mechs, AIs, that could directly assist with rebuilding). - check
* Mass Relays severely damaged - inhibiting or prohibiting trade. Note that some Asari colonies had completely intact infrastructures due to the fact they surrendered outright a couple of weeks earlier and would have been able to provide immediate assistance. We won't be able to repair these without a viable manufacturing base let alone do we have the knowledge of how these things even work. 

The humanitarian crisis is just beginning.

But the slides make it all seem like god is in heaven and all will be well with the world in a few weeks. Don't worry. 

[Steelcan]

Julia your ideas are not supported by word of god or what is shown in game through the EC slides.

I'm tired of all the doom and gloom people want to find in the endings when after the EC all the endings are shown as being bright and forward looking.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

* Power grid destroyed by reapers - check
(snip)
* Fresh water distribution off line - check
* Sewage treatment off line - check
* Food availability and distribution - ??? - okay there is always the "Donner Party Solution" - now this tells me where all the husks went in the control and synthesis endings. They were eventually shot and eaten, hence the reason we do not see them in the slides. In the destroy ending they crumble.
* Medical supply crisis - check

Depends on your planet. On Earth these are mostly not true, except in the zones they've already harvested or in the active combat zones. The Reaper plan is to harvest the population, not starve it to death. OTOH, it's only going to take them a decade or so, so medical supplies won't be too important for their purposes unless there's a cholera outbreak or something.

* Synthetics destroyed by ending - VIs (yes these are synthetics) managing data storage and operating any systems still on line destroyed in addition to those mentioned directly by the ending (Geth, Mechs, AIs, that could directly assist with rebuilding). - check
* Mass Relays severely damaged - inhibiting or prohibiting trade. Note that some Asari colonies had completely intact infrastructures due to the fact they surrendered outright a couple of weeks earlier and would have been able to provide immediate assistance. We won't be able to repair these without a viable manufacturing base let alone do we have the knowledge of how these things even work. 

VIs debatable -- depends on the precise meaning of synthetics, which we don't know with certainty -- but you're right about the relays. Clusters are going to be on their own for quite a while.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Steelcan wrote...

Julia your ideas are not supported by word of god or what is shown in game through the EC slides.

I'm tired of all the doom and gloom people want to find in the endings when after the EC all the endings are shown as being bright and forward looking.

Steelcan, :bandit: 

[KaiserShep]

A Texas Instruments calculator is a "synthetic" if we're going to broaden its scope.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Alan they glassed manufacturing areas.... like Adelaide. 4 million people dead -- source Diana Allers. One could assume they did this elsewhere, like in China. They glassed Bekenstein because they manufactured binoculars. -- source Diana Allers. Earth's manufacturing base is toasted. They don't want Earth building any replacement equipment.

[Barquiel]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


But the slides make it all seem like god is in heaven and all will be well with the world in a few weeks. Don't worry. 

10-15 years...according to the writers

[SwobyJ]

Obadiah wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

jtav wrote...

Or you could pity the Reapers (who are after all, the cojoined minds of past cycles) and think Synthesis is the best hope of freeing them.

The way I see it, pitying them is not necessarily the same as letting them continue to exist. I doubt very much that anyone in there would've wanted to become a reaper and last for millions of years, so I show pity for them the same way I showed pity for the batarian in the refugee holding area: by pulling the plug.

The Cerberus scientists on the dead Reaper in ME2 slowly losing their minds as their memories become collective gives you an idea of what the existence of a mind within a Reaper is like. No sense of identity. They'd be personalities adrift in an endless sea of information, building fresh memories with their new Reaper AI senses.

It almost seems like a complete rebirth. Maybe that's what that thing we destroy at the end of ME2 is going through.

I find it important to note that this Reaper lacked its core intelligence/awareness for the personalities to revolve around and be directed by.

Consider it more (imo as always): Delelict Reaper + Geth Consensus + Overlord Overlay + A Perfect Version of it.

Consider why Mac Walters seemed to reference the Matrix in his released note page.


Would you really want to destroy that? The last of life that these billions of lives may still have?

Even as a pro-Destroyer, I ponder the implications.

BTW Harbinger and Sovereign are just jerks. Harbinger is made of Leviathans are was always going to be a jerk by default unless Leviathans somehow learn how to truly love others. Sovereign ... curiously seems to be totally synthetic? 0_0 Don't know for sure.

And the Rannoch Reaper was a lesser Destroyer, likely trapped in its own cycle and clearly sick of it. Even if I was totally pro-Synthesis, I'd want that Reaper to RIP.


Basically, I like to wonder if everyone at least mostly keeps their personalities but they are copied into the 'Reaper cloud' (yay heaven, reaping, etc)

But only if the Reaper is operational. The Derelict Reaper was a total mess, showing us the fullest extent of Reaper-tech horrors, at least until ME3 began.

[AlanC9]

Barquiel wrote...


10-15 years...according to the writers

Source? That's more detail than I've heard.

[AlanC9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Alan they glassed manufacturing areas.... like Adelaide. 4 million people dead -- source Diana Allers. One could assume they did this elsewhere, like in China. They glassed Bekenstein because they manufactured binoculars. -- source Diana Allers. Earth's manufacturing base is toasted. They don't want Earth building any replacement equipment.

Agreed. That's why I cut destroying the manufacturing base from the list when I quoted it.

[SwobyJ]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Hypocrisy?

Shepard didn't know the full story until five minutes before Shepard had to make the choice. You played perhaps 140 hour of a story only to have all of it turned upside down in the last five minutes. You found out that the reapers are merely tools of this kid who controls them, and they are this kid's solution to a problem you didn't know existed until that point. The kid's solution was flawed, and the addition of the Crucible and you being there makes him see that. What now?

You get to choose new solutions. Synthesis ends the cycle for good. It's the only one that does. Control? Same things under new management. Destroy? It's 1995 or earlier again, and you destroy all synthetics including one or two entire races (Geth and the Virtual Aliens), plus all AIs.

All of them seemingly break the Cycle of Death that the Reapers impose on the galaxy, to bring Order to the percieved Chaos of the Leviathans.
(Funny enough, the Leviathans seemed to consider themselves of Order, and the Synthetics were the Chaos they wanted dealt with and potentially integrated into their own Cycle of Death)

Control adjusts the Cycle into a more benevolent (at least if Paragon) form. You think you can do better? Go ahead, sir, try. Cost? Reapers still exist and are used to manage this system...
Also Shepard, the one we know, is gone, replaced by something ... different.

Synthesis does seem to end the Cycle for good. It replaces it with what seems to be a Cycle of New Life. Cost? Seems free-will, at least a defined before all this, is gone. Replaced by a whole new mindset. Also Shepard, the one we know, is gone, his 'soul' spread to all beings.

Destroy does seem to totally BREAK the Cycle. However, nothing replaces it, at least for now. It does embrace the Chaos of existence and its up to you to decide if that's a good thing for everyone. Cost? Seems that all current synthetics are at least affected, and the consciousnesses of the Reapers may all be gone (but I'm sure their general tech remains).

All are forms of leaps of faith. Synthesis is the most overt, as is the savior images that come along with it. New-agey though. We never did get the New-Age, just as Mass Effect never got true Synthesis. It's a new mystery (with human motivations being exposed by psychology and faith being exposed by knowledge human systems of control), and because of that, it can collect a lot of followers and even those just curious about what it all means.

Control is a more orthodox view of it, with grasping the 'reigns of control' of others - like the control systems and bureaucracies of religions. At it's more ideal view, you're simply ensuring the safety of others through control of their previous enemies, letting everyone grow in a better maintained galaxy.

Destroy is a much more subtle leap of faith. It's a leap of faith for everyone you've actually met, one-on-one. It's the down to earth faith that puts it all on this Broken Cycle, as we always knew it, instead of a New or Renewed Cycle.
The sacrifice was those who, if we talk to them about it, gladly put their 'lives' on the line (Geth, EDI), but that may be too much for some people (I  EDI!!!!!!).
It also doesn't immediately produce a solution. It's a fight for the survival of as many as possible (at least if you're a Paragon taking it), but knowing some are going to be lost (the Renegade part of it), with the main point being:
"We get to be as we always were. Awesome, ordinary, 'human'.
It's a very 'humanistic' choice, but there's MANY who if given the chance, may aspire to 'more', even if it means a form of compromise with the Reapers themselves. You can't expect to deal with the Reapers and remain unscathed, thus the loss of personal life in the other choices. They require an *outright* sacrifice, not a just a *willingness* to die to achieve a goal.

*Note: I'm not Anti-Religion in itself, but it's hard to deny how it is, and was, so often used as a tool to control and regulate the educations of the masses.

[SwobyJ]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

Steelcan wrote...

Julia your ideas are not supported by word of god or what is shown in game through the EC slides.

I'm tired of all the doom and gloom people want to find in the endings when after the EC all the endings are shown as being bright and forward looking.

Steelcan, :bandit: 

Anything's possible in the Mass Effect universe.

[SwobyJ]

KaiserShep wrote...

A Texas Instruments calculator is a "synthetic" if we're going to broaden its scope.

I like to think it meant more 'target things with Reaper code'. What a Reaper itself would regard as a 'synthetic', or at least a giant targetting computer hacking into a Reaper Intelligence.
Anything without Reaper or near-equal AI code, would be less than a bug to them, I feel. The Normandy's computers (sans EDI)? Meh. Your omnitool? Nah.
Most tech will be fine. However, Low-EMS seems to leave that more up in the air, broadening the target scope and possibly destroying a good number of VIs and advanced computing systems. Ultimately, people still have tech, and that's the 'chaos' part. Will we make the same mistakes as before?... when Leviathans made the Intelligence itself?   

As such:
-Geth (always 'enhanced')
-EDI (Sovereign code fragments)

Are affected. Many of them will be destroyed. I'm not SURE if High EMS means they'll be exterminated though, entirely.

The Shepard part is interesting.
I do hope I'm right that Shepard was reconstructed with at least a part of Reaper tech. The irony being that we've been playing as a mini-mini-mini-Reaper all along, and given the choice to join them in their process (Control), choose what you (and the Reapers in the end) seem to think is a better path (Synthesis), or reject their entire existence, staying more true to Shepard Mark I from ME1. With enough willpower, we may breathe life again.

Modifié par SwobyJ, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:12 .

[Navasha]

SwobyJ wrote...

KaiserShep wrote...

A Texas Instruments calculator is a "synthetic" if we're going to broaden its scope.

I like to think it meant more 'target things with Reaper code'. What a Reaper itself would regard as a 'synthetic', or at least a giant targetting computer hacking into a Reaper Intelligence.
Anything without Reaper or near-equal AI code, would be less than a bug to them, I feel. The Normandy's computers (sans EDI)? Meh. Your omnitool? Nah.
Most tech will be fine. However, Low-EMS seems to leave that more up in the air, broadening the target scope and possibly destroying a good number of VIs and advanced computing systems. Ultimately, people still have tech, and that's the 'chaos' part. Will we make the same mistakes as before?... when Leviathans made the Intelligence itself?   

As such:
-Geth (always 'enhanced')
-EDI (Sovereign code fragments)

Are affected. Many of them will be destroyed. I'm not SURE if High EMS means they'll be exterminated though, entirely.

The Shepard part is interesting.
I do hope I'm right that Shepard was reconstructed with at least a part of Reaper tech. The irony being that we've been playing as a mini-mini-mini-Reaper all along, and given the choice to join them in their process (Control), choose what you (and the Reapers in the end) seem to think is a better path (Synthesis), or reject their entire existence, staying more true to Shepard Mark I from ME1. With enough willpower, we may breathe life again.

We know from the end clips in destroy that it didn't affect most of the fleet, as they flew past the broken relays.   The Normandy also took flight again shortly there after.   So, no.   Most tech wasn't destroyed.   The Geth were all mostly reaper upgraded platforms now, and EDI was also made sentient from reaper tech, so I would expect them to have been degraded back to their old forms or destroyed. 

Its interesting to point out that if you remember Grunt was made with reaper/collector tech as well.   He obviously was just fine after the ending. 

[KaiserShep]

As there's not likely going to be anything more to do with Shepard at all, it's safe to assume that no reaper tech was used in the remaking of Shepard, as it's not even hinted at in ME2 and 3.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:27 .

[KR96]

The breeding process may have been Reaper tech, but I doubt Grunt had any Reaper tech stuffed inside.

[KaiserShep]

I'm just glad that the aquarium VI had nothing to do with reaper tech.

....or did it?

Modifié par KaiserShep, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:28 .

[Obadiah]

@KaiserShep
@sH0tgUn jUliA
The final ME3 map before the assualt showed most of the galaxy under Reaper control. Earth, Palaven, and Thessia all looked devastated, which means the whole galactic manufacturing industry was shot to hell. Even if the original non-EC Control ending existed where Shepard took control of the Reapers and flew them into the sun, the galaxy is going to go through a Dark Age.

@Navasha
The endings are somewhat open to interpretation, but in the max EMS Destroy video only about 30 ships fly past that broken Mass Relay in the EC epilogue. It's hard to even count the number of ships that warp in at the start of the battle.

Modifié par Obadiah, 27 octobre 2013 - 10:47 .

[KR96]

Obadiah wrote...

@Navasha
The endings are somewhat open to interpretation, but in the max EMS Destroy video only about 30 ships fly past that broken Mass Relay in the EC epilogue. It's hard to even count the number of ships that warp in at the start of the battle.

Mind you, there weren't that much ships that were actually shown jumping to FTL speed after Shepard blew up the Catalyst, or whatever it was that blew up. And it's quite likely for the others to have become seperated from the rest of the fleet, it's a big galaxy after all. 

[KaiserShep]

Makes you wonder what the hell is even the point of establishing a rendezvous point if no one is going to follow you there. Heck even Joker seems to have trouble following orders, even though the fastest ship in the fleet should have been the first one there.

Modifié par KaiserShep, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:44 .

[Barquiel]

killerrabbit1996 wrote...

Obadiah wrote...

@Navasha
The endings are somewhat open to interpretation, but in the max EMS Destroy video only about 30 ships fly past that broken Mass Relay in the EC epilogue. It's hard to even count the number of ships that warp in at the start of the battle.

Mind you, there weren't that much ships that were actually shown jumping to FTL speed after Shepard blew up the Catalyst, or whatever it was that blew up. And it's quite likely for the others to have become seperated from the rest of the fleet, it's a big galaxy after all. 

As far as I know these ships are supposed to be the core of the new council fleet (at least that's the official explanation why we only see asari, turian and human ships and no quarians or geth).

[Obadiah]

Maybe that's the point of the Normandy crash scene - to show that technology is still affected by the blast wave in all choices.

Modifié par Obadiah, 27 octobre 2013 - 09:50 .