202 réponses à ce sujet

[TheButterflyEffect]

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Actually... it is. People just have to grow some peas and toughen up. The Catholic church would still be brainwashing people and senselessly murdering people, like me, if someone hadn't stood up to them. Obviously, someone did.

And it was still stupid. They didn't have anything better to do but follow a haphazard soldier around to kill the Maleficent expy, why do they only now suddenly have an actual life of their own? That's dumb.

I didn't romance Zevran, so I'm not sure what he says exactly, but I do know Leliana was ordered to the Chantry by the Reverend Mother herself. Imagine yourself as a lowly supermarket employee, then one day your company's CEO calls you personally and asks you to come see him. You don't say no to that.

Again, you're failing to grasp the concept that the Chantry isn't just some chapel on the corner. It's a multinational organization, and every monarch and royal noble who follows the Chantry is an asset to the Chantry. Why are you criticizing Bioware for bad/unhappy character storytelling when they're just following some realistic Medieval-style logic?

Yeah, it's dumb to give all your loyalty and independence to an entity like the Chantry, but Europe was controlled by it for well over nine centuries, and it took another three centuries for it to finally lose power. 1,200 years is a long time, bud, and just because no one "stands up to the Chantry" doesn't mean that Bioware is refusing to allow us happy endings.

She's not with the Chantry anymore. Or at least she wasn't supposed to be... then went back for some ****** reason? Ugh, stupid, useless woman.

That's not how things worked in Medieval times... things were a lot more grey than that. Not all of Europe followed the exact same doctrine. A lot of people were Lutheran and Protestant. Look at Henry VIII, he told Catholicism where to go and took things into his own hands, so he could have the right to cut off his wives' heads. Badass!

The "Chantry" can drink my golden rain.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 20 octobre 2013 - 04:46 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Actually... it is. People just have to grow some peas and toughen up. The Catholic church would still be brainwashing people and senselessly murdering people, like me, if someone hadn't stood up to them. Obviously, someone did.

And it was still stupid. They didn't have anything better to do but follow a haphazard soldier around to kill the Maleficent expy, why do they only now suddenly have an actual life of their own? That's dumb.

I didn't romance Zevran, so I'm not sure what he says exactly, but I do know Leliana was ordered to the Chantry by the Reverend Mother herself. Imagine yourself as a lowly supermarket employee, then one day your company's CEO calls you personally and asks you to come see him. You don't say no to that.

Again, you're failing to grasp the concept that the Chantry isn't just some chapel on the corner. It's a multinational organization, and every monarch and royal noble who follows the Chantry is an asset to the Chantry. Why are you criticizing Bioware for bad/unhappy character storytelling when they're just following some realistic Medieval-style logic?

Yeah, it's dumb to give all your loyalty and independence to an entity like the Chantry, but Europe was controlled by it for well over nine centuries, and it took another three centuries for it to finally lose power. 1,200 years is a long time, bud, and just because no one "stands up to the Chantry" doesn't mean that Bioware is refusing to allow us happy endings.

She's not with the Chantry anymore. Or at least she wasn't supposed to be... then went back for some ****** reason? Ugh, stupid, useless woman.

That's not how things worked in Medieval times... things were a lot more grey than that. Not all of Europe followed the exact same doctrine. A lot of people were Lutheran and Protestant. Look at Henry VIII, he told Catholicism where to go and took things into his own hands, so he could have the right to cut off his wives' heads. Badass!

The "Chantry" can drink my golden rain.

Henry VIII. In the early 1500s. That's roughly 1,000 years after the Catholic Church assumed power over Europe. Even then, the Church didn't collapse until the early 1700s. But that's world history, not Dragon Age history. Not like you really seem to know much of either.

As with Leliana, if she was unhardened, she was still a devoted Chantry member. She didn't "leave" the Chantry, per se. Why do you think she keeps talking about it and the Maker throughout the game?

If you think characters are stupid and useless for having their own beliefs, and that Bioware can't write just because you don't think the ending's happy enough, go read a 12th century English fairy tale or something. I'd love to see you play The Witcher and give your opinion on those kinds of characters and endings.

I'm well versed enough in Western history. I just don't really care about it. Most if it isn't my history. The point is, there's nothing physically stopping anyone from going against organized religion. People did all the time back then.

Well, she did turn against a bunch of guards and tag along with you, and then has sex with you even though sister's aren't supposed to do that. Whatever.

And I don't think the ending should be entirely happy. I just think that if it's miserable for the PC, it should be miserable for everyone else too. Why should everyone except the PC get a happy ending? That's just stupid.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 20 octobre 2013 - 04:57 .

[TheButterflyEffect]

EntropicAngel wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

I'd love to see you play The Witcher and give your opinion on those kinds of characters and endings.

Both Witchers actually end pretty well. Geralt defeats (or chooses not to) the big bad, and gets the girl. There is no "forces outside of Geralt's control turn him into the fulcrum of a global war." Letho was that, if anyone (or SPOILERS Alvin).

I didn't approve of the forced "canon" love interest. Pffft. Let me remain an uncommitted playboy, darn you.

[LobselVith8]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

The Warden gets to live out the rest of their cursed existence both diseased, and alone. Not to mention overworked to hell and back.

The frakked over Magi Boon, Dalish Boon, and (arguably) the Elven City Boon (with vanished Hero as Bann) certainly soured Origins by making our royal boons pretty much meaningless. I'm hoping my Warden's decision to choose Morrigan isn't frakked over as well.

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Hawke gets to be a fugitive. With their LI, which makes it a bit better, but that's totally not gonna last. Never does. Relationships for the protagonist are unhealthier than a shuffling zombie. 

Just because (romanced) Leliana left The Warden doesn't mean Hawke's love interest will. For example, I don't see why Merrill would leave my Champion.

[iOnlySignIn]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

WTH are you talking about.

My Hawke is perfectly happy after DA2's ending. She accomplished her goal in Kirkwall (lead the Mages to start a revolutionary war) and is now roaming the Waking Sea freely with (bff and f*ckbuddy) Isabela.

My Shepard after ME3's ending now rules the entire galaxy as benevolent god-emperor. If you're not happy with that there's something seriously wrong about you.

I did say that DA2's ending was alright, still not great, but alright. Even though everything you ever did in the game was utterly pointless, at least the protagonist still got out with their life and hope for the future.

God-emperor, but still dead as a doornail. The crumbiest ending is also the only one where you don't kick the bucket after surviving way less retarded things over the span of 3 freaking games. Go figure.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

By your logic everything everyone has ever done is pointless. We are all just pawns of history.

Control Shepard is "immortal, infinite, eternal" as said so explicitly.

Modifié par iOnlySignIn, 20 octobre 2013 - 05:06 .

[Inquisitor Recon]

So is Butterflyeffect worried about the Catholic Church wanting him dead or something?

[TheButterflyEffect]

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Foshizzlin wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

Actually... it is. People just have to grow some peas and toughen up. The Catholic church would still be brainwashing people and senselessly murdering people, like me, if someone hadn't stood up to them. Obviously, someone did.

And it was still stupid. They didn't have anything better to do but follow a haphazard soldier around to kill the Maleficent expy, why do they only now suddenly have an actual life of their own? That's dumb.

I didn't romance Zevran, so I'm not sure what he says exactly, but I do know Leliana was ordered to the Chantry by the Reverend Mother herself. Imagine yourself as a lowly supermarket employee, then one day your company's CEO calls you personally and asks you to come see him. You don't say no to that.

Again, you're failing to grasp the concept that the Chantry isn't just some chapel on the corner. It's a multinational organization, and every monarch and royal noble who follows the Chantry is an asset to the Chantry. Why are you criticizing Bioware for bad/unhappy character storytelling when they're just following some realistic Medieval-style logic?

Yeah, it's dumb to give all your loyalty and independence to an entity like the Chantry, but Europe was controlled by it for well over nine centuries, and it took another three centuries for it to finally lose power. 1,200 years is a long time, bud, and just because no one "stands up to the Chantry" doesn't mean that Bioware is refusing to allow us happy endings.

She's not with the Chantry anymore. Or at least she wasn't supposed to be... then went back for some ****** reason? Ugh, stupid, useless woman.

That's not how things worked in Medieval times... things were a lot more grey than that. Not all of Europe followed the exact same doctrine. A lot of people were Lutheran and Protestant. Look at Henry VIII, he told Catholicism where to go and took things into his own hands, so he could have the right to cut off his wives' heads. Badass!

The "Chantry" can drink my golden rain.

Henry VIII. In the early 1500s. That's roughly 1,000 years after the Catholic Church assumed power over Europe. Even then, the Church didn't collapse until the early 1700s. But that's world history, not Dragon Age history. Not like you really seem to know much of either.

As with Leliana, if she was unhardened, she was still a devoted Chantry member. She didn't "leave" the Chantry, per se. Why do you think she keeps talking about it and the Maker throughout the game?

If you think characters are stupid and useless for having their own beliefs, and that Bioware can't write just because you don't think the ending's happy enough, go read a 12th century English fairy tale or something. I'd love to see you play The Witcher and give your opinion on those kinds of characters and endings.

I'm well versed enough in Western history. I just don't really care about it. Most if it isn't my history. The point is, there's nothing physically stopping anyone from going against organized religion. People did all the time back then.

Well, she did turn against a bunch of guards and tag along with you, and then has sex with you even though sister's aren't supposed to do that. Whatever.

And I don't think the ending should be entirely happy. I just think that if it's miserable for the PC, it should be miserable for everyone else too. Why should everyone except the PC get a happy ending? That's just stupid.

Nothing to stop them from going against it? Exalted Marches and an Inquisition aren't stopping them? Do you know what an Inquisition is?

I don't see how the Warden's ending was miserable. The Awakening events aren't even canon, if you choose not to play the DLC. It has no effect on anything else in the series if you skip it; Leliana says she loves the Warden in DA2 regardless of playing Awakening or not. Zevran seems to still remember the Warden. The Warden is forever known as the Hero of Ferelden and perhaps the greatest Warden in recent history. I don't see where you're drawing the conclusion that the Warden's ending is miserable.

They don't have to make enough of a stink to cause all that. I wasn't talking about revolting. I was talking about one individual just up and walking away to do their own thing in peace.

Yeah, which explains why they're both still not together with the Warden, six years later.

And everyone still rudely spits in the face of the "Hero of Scotland" and hurls insults in their face left and right. Some reward. Not even a thanks. Not even a mountain of gold. Not even a goddamn pension.

[TheButterflyEffect]

iOnlySignIn wrote...

TheButterflyEffect wrote...

iOnlySignIn wrote...

WTH are you talking about.

My Hawke is perfectly happy after DA2's ending. She accomplished her goal in Kirkwall (lead the Mages to start a revolutionary war) and is now roaming the Waking Sea freely with (bff and f*ckbuddy) Isabela.

My Shepard after ME3's ending now rules the entire galaxy as benevolent god-emperor. If you're not happy with that there's something seriously wrong about you.

I did say that DA2's ending was alright, still not great, but alright. Even though everything you ever did in the game was utterly pointless, at least the protagonist still got out with their life and hope for the future.

God-emperor, but still dead as a doornail. The crumbiest ending is also the only one where you don't kick the bucket after surviving way less retarded things over the span of 3 freaking games. Go figure.

Again, I have no idea what you're talking about.

By your logic everything everyone has ever done is pointless. We are all just pawns of history.

Control Shepard is "immortal, infinite, eternal" as said so explicitly.

The fact that we didn't get any alternate endings? Yeah, who wouldn't feel railroaded?

They're still dead and their love interest is left utterly alone, while everyone else gets to go on their merry way. All happy and, y'know, ALIVE. Poop.

Modifié par TheButterflyEffect, 20 octobre 2013 - 05:09 .

[Lau Maru]

My endings were pretty alright. My warden became a paragon with duties to the wardens. My Hawke became viscount w/ cute elven bloodmage. And my shephard ended up dispersed throughout the friggin' galaxy to live forever as organic understanding in synthetics. Have you any idea how long a warrantylasts on a geth? Let alone its normal life expectancy? NO? Well its a long ass time. Immortality is a pretty sweet ending... unless Shepard became a clouded data stream that is corrupted upon download in all synthetics due to incompatibility of data formats. then there's a whole nuther game right there.

[TheButterflyEffect]

It's not "why it's unhappy". It's "why is the protagonist the only one who ever ends up unhappy", as opposed to everyone being unhappy.

[Talagen]

I think there is no argument about how BioWare screwed up the ending in ME3. The rest of their games endings left most feeling satisfied although DA2 was a little abrupt. Besides there is always this to change ME3. http://social.biowar...ect/8587/#files

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Of course there is argument about the endings of Mass Effect 3. I didn't mind them. I disliked the ending of DA 2 MUCH more. Mainly because it wasn't a true ending and wasn't really meant to be one because they had planned more content with Hawke at the time.

Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 20 octobre 2013 - 09:00 .

[Xilizhra]

I don't find Leliana's absence in Awakening to be that much of a problem... but her being a Seeker and apparently separated from the Warden in DA2 decidedly is.

[boraxalmighty]

The only happy ending is a good death and both my warden and Shepard had that.

[Little Princess Peach]

can't you just enjoy the game for the journey?

[Xilizhra]

Tharja wrote...

can't you just enjoy the game for the journey?

We can. But when the journey takes a bad turn later on, it's problematic.

[MisterJB]

TheButterflyEffect wrote...
Actually... it is. People just have to grow some peas and toughen up. The Catholic church would still be brainwashing people and senselessly murdering people, like me, if someone hadn't stood up to them. Obviously, someone did.

Yeah and I'm sure Malta in 1561 or Lepanto in 1571 or the enslavement of three million people from Hungary alone contributed nothing to the animosity between europeans and turks.
It was all "brainwashing" done by the Catholic churc.

[Boycott Bioware]

I agree with OP...

I want to make comparison, look at KotOR Taris, after all what Revan done, Taris is destroyed...it is the same like Kirkwal, after all what Hawke done, Kirkwal is destroyed...so it is pointless

Better Revan just find Bastila and leave Taris, because Taris will get destroyed...similar with better Hawke just leave that cursed city

I don't mind about a melancholic pathetic hero theme, but at least don't make it pointless and making the player feel "why i am playing this all these time?"

[Mathias]

Tharja wrote...

can't you just enjoy the game for the journey?

I've really grown to hate that phrase over the past year and a half. You have no idea. The people who actually buy into that saying and not reckognizing how flawed it is, boggles my mind. We have real life examples whether it'd be a fictional story or a tragic non fictional story, that shows how much a bad destination can ruin a journey.