202 réponses à ce sujet

[Navasha]

All I can say is the OP might not be seeing the games from the same perspective as I do. Mass Effect - Joker fell in love with EDI and then had to watch her die. Mordin dead, Legion dead. Kaidan dead. Thane dead. Anderson dead....and that is in my 'happiest' playthrough version of the game.

They all had worse outcomes than Shepard.

[Estelindis]

Darth Brotarian wrote...

We need more characters to go the route of revan in the old republic mmo tbh. It would improve their character development a lot more than just shuffling them off and having them disappear forever just cause.

I think that Revan's brief story in SW:TOR made a mockery of the character arc in KotOR.  I really hope that Bioware doesn't do the same with the Warden and Hawke.  I do agree that making protagonists disappear forever "just because" is a mistake, but once it's been done I don't think this is the way to solve the problem.

[TheBlackAdder13]

Calm down thebutterflyeffect.

If you're unhappy with your happily ever after just give this woman a call and she'll make it all right for you so that all your orifices will bleed fairy tale sap:

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Aside from ME3, which I think had a horrible ending, I did consider all of the others to be happy endings.

Maybe my definition of a happy ending is a little different than others. If my character is alive and well (all in one piece, not unwillingly possessed or turned into an abomination, etc) and not forced to act out of character, then I'm probably going to like the ending. I just want the character that I developed and spent countless hours playing to survive all the hardships they've gone through. Really, they just need to have a future - that creates the possibility that they can be happy, or whatever we choose to imagine.

To use my first Hawke as an example, she was reunited with her brother and escaped from Kirkwall with her love interest. I'd call that a happy ending. I can imagine she's taking part in the mage revolution with Anders, which is what she wanted and expressed through dialogue. The same goes for my Wardens, who never make the ultimate sacrifice. All of my DA protagonists survive. If a later game changes that, and wants to kill them off... well, then I'll just play without an import, if I choose to play at all, and it won't be my Wardens/Hawkes who die.

So, I just want an option for the characters I'm playing to live. That's not much to ask for.

[Angrywolves]

ME3 ended terribly.
Maybe no further debates here but you see a lot of negative Bioware comments elsewhere on the internet.
I wonder if the next ME can ever be a success with the baggage ME3 has.
Obviously Bioware realized ME3 had a problem, even though angel doesn't seem to, otherwise Mazurka wouldn't have done a mea culpa and admitted it.
shrugs .
As far as I'm concerned it's a nondebatable fact.
But we're here to discuss DAI right?
I see another disappearing protagonist at the end of DAI, and the stage being set for DA4.

[In Exile]

I think a player shouldn't be hit with a gotcha. Since DA:O Bioware has really liked doing that.

[Azaron Nightblade]

Angrywolves wrote...

ME3 ended terribly.
Maybe no further debates here but you see a lot of negative Bioware comments elsewhere on the internet.
I wonder if the next ME can ever be a success with the baggage ME3 has.

Gotta agree there.
I mean, pretty much every interview they do someone brings up ME3's "controversial" ending along with the question of whether they've learned from it.
It must suck for Bioware to keep getting their noses rubbed into that.
A lot of people on this thread also seem to have forgotten that DAO's "happy" ending was not in fact the ending for the Warden - DA2 undid that when it announced the Warden and Hawke were both MIA.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

EntropicAngel wrote...

This isn't really so much a reply to this, but more in response...

As far as I'm concerned, if the character can achieve what they set out to do--like defeat the Archdemon, or defeat the Reapers--then it's happy enough. That's all I...that's all I "ask" I guess, for a roleplaying game. For a more linear game I don't mind a kind of failure ending (kind of AC3's Connor arc, though it should be noted that Desmond completes his objective). Even for an RPG, if they could make it make sense for the protagonist to fail, I wouldn't mind it. That seems fairly difficult to do, however, so going with "able to complete the objective" is all I ask.

That's fine. Personally, I would never think of it as a happy ending if my character dies. Even if the goal is achieved, it doesn't mean as much to me if the character I've been playing all that time isn't alive to see it. Just ends up feeling like the rest of the world is better off now, except for the one person in that world that I cared about most.

It's different in a roleplaying game, rather than a game that has a set protagonist that I'm just guiding through the events of their without having any real control over it. I can influence the story and develop the main character in my own way, so it would feel wrong if self-sacrifice is the only choice when I hadn't been playing them that way, and had the character express at every opportunity that they plan to be alive when the conflict is over.

I wouldn't even mind failing to achieve the goal at the end, as long as my character is alive to try again and get it right in the sequel. Although that approach might not work with Dragon Age switching protagonists every time.

Modifié par The Sarendoctrinator, 21 octobre 2013 - 04:43 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

I had to make a male Warden so that I could have a happy ending in DA:O and run off with Morrigan. It was the only way.

My Hawke started a mage rebellion, sided with Anders when he brought down the Chantry, told Sebastian to kiss her ass, and sailed off with her lover Isabella. Okay this was relatively okay....

Now Shepard....

My courier is wandering the desert probably with Boone. My wanderer from vault 101 settled down in some shack with Butch.

[Star fury]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

Female Cousland ending when she marries Alistair and becomes a queen-consort is one Mary Sue ending.  I struggle to think a happier ending in a videogame, albeit it has one caveat which is only good. 

[The Sarendoctrinator]

scyphozoa wrote...

I don't know, I don't want to be a snob or a jerk, but...why play a game like Dragon Age or Mass Effect if you want a happy ending? These are not happy games. They have moments of happiness, but on a scale, these games are much closer to tragedies than anything else. You are in a position of apocalyptic scenarios, where countless lives are being lost; men, women and children are all dying and there is little or no hope. What kind of rational mind would expect a happy ending in a scenario like this?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting a happy ending, but perhaps these people are looking in the wrong place for it. I don't expect a happy ending in a context of suffering, loss and demons literally pouring out of the sky. I'm sure it could be done, but I don't necessarily think it should be done.

That depends on what someone considers a happy ending. I consider it happy as long as my character survives, and by that definition, all of the BioWare games I've played except for one had that as an option. I always saw their situations as hopeful. It seemed to be one of the main themes in the Mass Effect series, at least to me.

It's not unrealistic that someone can survive tragedy, survive war and still be glad that they're alive at the end of it all and have hope for their future, even if they have to rebuild their lives and the rest of the world. That's the kind of story I like to see, and the type of character I like to create.

[Fredward]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

I had to make a male Warden so that I could have a happy ending in DA:O and run off with Morrigan. It was the only way.

Uh... There were other romances beside Morrigan and Alistair. Also interpeting the running off with Morrigan ending as "and they lived happily ever after at a cottage by the sea!" seems weird to me. Clearly DAI is gonna poke big fat holes in that story.


Anyway I don't like happy endings . There is no such thing. I recently read The Pale King by DFW and there was this side story about this lady who went through a period of self abuse and wound up in a mental hospital. There she met this guy who was the only one to really get her, the twist being that he had a terminal heart condition and probably wouldn't be living much longer. Her problem is that she's basically too damn hot and everybody judges her by her appearance and never sees her for who she really is, he teaches her that the problem starts with her, she sees herself that way and so she expects everyone else to do so too. Eventually she's about ready to get discharged and panics because she's afraid she'll never see him again or that he'll be dead. So after she's discharged she tracks him down and eventually they marry! Happily ever after.

Lolno.

The majesty of her love unforunately does not cure his heart condition becuase this isn't ****ing Disney. Now I know you think you know where this is going, no? He dies and she's left bereft and all alone with no one to understand her and she's built her entire identity on him and now it's all gone away like a sand castle built too damn close to the shore! OH WOE! But NO! The real kicker here is that he doesn't die. Now she's stuck in this marriage since she was like 18 or something and it's like ten years later and he's still not dead but too sick for her to actually live out her life with him. She's trapped. He's also totally ungrateful (she feels like he should be because she basically gave up her youth for him) and says she only married him for herself, like to build up her perception of herself. It's a very good side story ya'll should read it.

Anyway, my point? Happy endings suck donkey dick. No thought goes into them. They're empty little abstractions. LAZY WRITING. I bet Cinderella eventually got diabetes and her feet got too fat to fit into the slippers and That Guy made her clean his castle because she could no longer fulfill his foot fetish. I bet Belle and Beast died in a horrible fire in that castle of his because the villagers saw their relationship as a filthy abomination. I bet Ariel felt just awful about becoming human when she learned about trawl fishing.

Happy endings don't make you think, they don't make you feel. I don't necessarily even like sad, bitter/sweet endings but at least they make me feel something. Their poignancy makes them lasting. So if I had to choose I'd choose Bioware's current "theme" every damn time.

[Boycott Bioware]

I make comparison...

Straight Female Hawke

i. having affair with abomination that turned to terrorist
ii. having affair with a runaway slave who have lyrium tattoo all over his body, hate all Mages and whine a lot

Straight Male Hawke

i. having affair with a seductress who own a ship/or not own a ship
ii. having affair with a Blood Mage Dalish Elf

In the end, i think straight Female Hawke will suffer a lot than straight Male Hawke...at least male Hawke do not having affair with an abomination or an experimental emotional freak

It is not fair

Modifié par Qistina, 21 octobre 2013 - 06:11 .

[TheKomandorShepard]

[quote]Foopydoopydoo wrote...

[quote]sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...


Happy endings don't make you think, they don't make you feel. I don't necessarily even like sad, bitter/sweet endings but at least they make me feel something. Their poignancy makes them lasting. So if I had to choose I'd choose Bioware's current "theme" every damn time.

[/quote]

Don't make me feel? Nah bg ending was one that touched me it was happy and rewarded me with warm feeling and make me feel sad a little as well despite that was only text.To be honest in stories when we already screwd no matter what we do i ignore story and i m intrested only in gameplay because that kills reason why i m even bother with gathering something just to lost that in end and gain nothing like in hawke case .

So happy ending can be good unless taken to the extreme.

[The Sarendoctrinator]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Happy endings don't make you think, they don't make you feel. I don't necessarily even like sad, bitter/sweet endings but at least they make me feel something. Their poignancy makes them lasting. So if I had to choose I'd choose Bioware's current "theme" every damn time.

I don't agree with that. The kind of ending I described in my last post, what I consider a happy ending, always have a lot of feeling for me. It's powerful and emotional. I still think about them years after playing the game, watching the movie, reading the book. I got the same feeling every time I finished playing ME1 and ME2, and I must have played the end scenes of ME2 at least 20 times testing different squadmate combos in the final mission. In comparison, the only thing ME3's ending made me feel was frustration at the game itself - by the time I reached a certain point, I didn't even care about what they were saying anymore, I was just waiting for the dialogue to end with no feeling at all, wondering how long until it finishes because I have something else to do after it's done. That's probably not what they were going for.

DAO's ending, finally achieving victory over the Archdemon and then having my Warden return to his companions, was a very powerful one all the way through the end credits - perfect song choice for the emotions that were going through my mind and my Warden's at that moment. (Actually, that's exactly how I feel about ME1.) And the ending of DA2 made me think for sure after my Hawkes left Kirkwall. I love a good escape and rebellion in a story. I would choose those themes, survival and hope among them, every time.

[Welsh Inferno]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

Uh... There were other romances beside Morrigan and Alistair. Also interpeting the running off with Morrigan ending as "and they lived happily ever after at a cottage by the sea!" seems weird to me. Clearly DAI is gonna poke big fat holes in that story.


Anyway I don't like happy endings . There is no such thing. I recently read The Pale King by DFW and there was this side story about this lady who went through a period of self abuse and wound up in a mental hospital. There she met this guy who was the only one to really get her, the twist being that he had a terminal heart condition and probably wouldn't be living much longer. Her problem is that she's basically too damn hot and everybody judges her by her appearance and never sees her for who she really is, he teaches her that the problem starts with her, she sees herself that way and so she expects everyone else to do so too. Eventually she's about ready to get discharged and panics because she's afraid she'll never see him again or that he'll be dead. So after she's discharged she tracks him down and eventually they marry! Happily ever after.

Lolno.

The majesty of her love unforunately does not cure his heart condition becuase this isn't ****ing Disney. Now I know you think you know where this is going, no? He dies and she's left bereft and all alone with no one to understand her and she's built her entire identity on him and now it's all gone away like a sand castle built too damn close to the shore! OH WOE! But NO! The real kicker here is that he doesn't die. Now she's stuck in this marriage since she was like 18 or something and it's like ten years later and he's still not dead but too sick for her to actually live out her life with him. She's trapped. He's also totally ungrateful (she feels like he should be because she basically gave up her youth for him) and says she only married him for herself, like to build up her perception of herself. It's a very good side story ya'll should read it.

Anyway, my point? Happy endings suck donkey dick. No thought goes into them. They're empty little abstractions. LAZY WRITING. I bet Cinderella eventually got diabetes and her feet got too fat to fit into the slippers and That Guy made her clean his castle because she could no longer fulfill his foot fetish. I bet Belle and Beast died in a horrible fire in that castle of his because the villagers saw their relationship as a filthy abomination. I bet Ariel felt just awful about becoming human when she learned about trawl fishing.

Happy endings don't make you think, they don't make you feel. I don't necessarily even like sad, bitter/sweet endings but at least they make me feel something. Their poignancy makes them lasting. So if I had to choose I'd choose Bioware's current "theme" every damn time.

Well said.

[Shadow Fox]

Foopydoopydoo wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...
I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

I had to make a male Warden so that I could have a happy ending in DA:O and run off with Morrigan. It was the only way.

Uh... There were other romances beside Morrigan and Alistair. Also interpeting the running off with Morrigan ending as "and they lived happily ever after at a cottage by the sea!" seems weird to me. Clearly DAI is gonna poke big fat holes in that story.


Anyway I don't like happy endings . There is no such thing. I recently read The Pale King by DFW and there was this side story about this lady who went through a period of self abuse and wound up in a mental hospital. There she met this guy who was the only one to really get her, the twist being that he had a terminal heart condition and probably wouldn't be living much longer. Her problem is that she's basically too damn hot and everybody judges her by her appearance and never sees her for who she really is, he teaches her that the problem starts with her, she sees herself that way and so she expects everyone else to do so too. Eventually she's about ready to get discharged and panics because she's afraid she'll never see him again or that he'll be dead. So after she's discharged she tracks him down and eventually they marry! Happily ever after.

Lolno.

The majesty of her love unforunately does not cure his heart condition becuase this isn't ****ing Disney. Now I know you think you know where this is going, no? He dies and she's left bereft and all alone with no one to understand her and she's built her entire identity on him and now it's all gone away like a sand castle built too damn close to the shore! OH WOE! But NO! The real kicker here is that he doesn't die. Now she's stuck in this marriage since she was like 18 or something and it's like ten years later and he's still not dead but too sick for her to actually live out her life with him. She's trapped. He's also totally ungrateful (she feels like he should be because she basically gave up her youth for him) and says she only married him for herself, like to build up her perception of herself. It's a very good side story ya'll should read it.

Anyway, my point? Happy endings suck donkey dick. No thought goes into them. They're empty little abstractions. LAZY WRITING. I bet Cinderella eventually got diabetes and her feet got too fat to fit into the slippers and That Guy made her clean his castle because she could no longer fulfill his foot fetish. I bet Belle and Beast died in a horrible fire in that castle of his because the villagers saw their relationship as a filthy abomination. I bet Ariel felt just awful about becoming human when she learned about trawl fishing.

Happy endings don't make you think, they don't make you feel. I don't necessarily even like sad, bitter/sweet endings but at least they make me feel something. Their poignancy makes them lasting. So if I had to choose I'd choose Bioware's current "theme" every damn time.

Wow so cynical...

[9TailsFox]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

I had to make a male Warden so that I could have a happy ending in DA:O and run off with Morrigan. It was the only way.

My Hawke started a mage rebellion, sided with Anders when he brought down the Chantry, told Sebastian to kiss her ass, and sailed off with her lover Isabella. Okay this was relatively okay....

Now Shepard....

My courier is wandering the desert probably with Boone. My wanderer from vault 101 settled down in some shack with Butch.

Play female noble, romance Alistair, do ritual, marry alistair and rule Fereled. You can get more happily ever after ending in DA. Warden and Morrigan walking into sunset was second best ending.

[9TailsFox]

Qistina wrote...

I make comparison...

Straight Female Hawke

i. having affair with abomination that turned to terrorist
ii. having affair with a runaway slave who have lyrium tattoo all over his body, hate all Mages and whine a lot

Straight Male Hawke

i. having affair with a seductress who own a ship/or not own a ship
ii. having affair with a Blood Mage Dalish Elf

In the end, i think straight Female Hawke will suffer a lot than straight Male Hawke...at least male Hawke do not having affair with an abomination or an experimental emotional freak

It is not fair

Everyone have different point of view.

i. Anders is cool. know how to make bombs. (I am pro mage so supported him truth all game was against removing justis, he is useful fighting for freedom.
ii. Totaly agry about Fenris and not because of pro-mage. "Yes your life sucs I get it my sister and mother die now can you shut up".

i. **** i am not sure yet if its pro or con. STD well Anders can help with wath that.
ii. Stupid child who thinks she know better and rebel against parent keeper. She will become real abomination faster than Anders  Does she even have 18.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

Female Cousland ending when she marries Alistair and becomes a queen-consort is one Mary Sue ending.  I struggle to think a happier ending in a videogame, albeit it has one caveat which is only good. 

The problem was that lying cheating s*** warden didn't get on too well with Alistair. The assassin was more her type.

[Zazzerka]

9TailsFox wrote...

ii. Stupid child who thinks she know better and rebel against parent keeper. She will become real abomination faster than Anders  Does she even have 18.

Does she even have 18 what?

[Shadow Fox]

Star fury wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

I wish that Bioware would allow a female protagonist to have a happy ending.

Female Cousland ending when she marries Alistair and becomes a queen-consort is one Mary Sue ending.  I struggle to think a happier ending in a videogame, albeit it has one caveat which is only good. 

How is that Mary Sue? The Couslands were popular noblity so they accepted her as a queen.